[HN Gopher] Show HN: The game where you test your offside decisi...
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Show HN: The game where you test your offside decision-making
skills against VAR
Author : truetaurus
Score : 26 points
Date : 2021-04-15 20:29 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (offsideornot.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (offsideornot.com)
| truetaurus wrote:
| Built this in about 3 hours. Little game to test your offside
| decision-making skills against VAR.
|
| Send me any feedback :)
|
| Also looking for some abstract illustrations/graphics for the
| home page if anyone has suggestions
| [deleted]
| InitialLastName wrote:
| I'm not a soccer person and only have a vague sense of what the
| offside condition is for that sport. It would be helpful to
| have a reference, even just the text of the rule, for making
| close call decisions.
| truetaurus wrote:
| True good idea!
| petepete wrote:
| The offside rule is notoriously hard to describe. It's not
| even set in stone as there is a subjective element to making
| the judgement in some situations.
|
| There's an entire Wikipedia article about it.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offside_(association_football)
| raizinho wrote:
| It's not hard to figure out but it would be helpful to know
| which team (by kit color) is attacking.
|
| Also is this just a collection of (controversial) calls VAR
| ruled as offside? Went through about 10-15 and that's all I
| got.
| truetaurus wrote:
| Nice idea. And yeah still need to get more added. It's not
| that easy to find.
| rjtavares wrote:
| Great job!
|
| It would be nice to include images without the lines VAR draws,
| since that give away the decision most times. Maybe then
| compare the score with and without lines.
| truetaurus wrote:
| That would be awesome but getting those images are tricky
| unfortunately.
| pvg wrote:
| It'd be interesting to see how one's decisions compare to other
| people's decisions or other similar opportunities to yell at
| someone or something that the decision was wrong and everyone
| involved in making it was blind, in the pay of bettings sites,
| maliciously biased, etc.
| bl0b wrote:
| Love it. It's pretty much always: I thinks onside, VAR says
| offside.
| grawprog wrote:
| I was not actually able to try the game. The images all loaded
| as blank white squares for me on mobile. It also seems to
| hijack the browser back button every time a picture is clicked.
| truetaurus wrote:
| Hmm what browser and mobile device do you have?
| nataliescy wrote:
| I tried - and it's kinda hard for a not EU league fan to see
| which team is offensive/defensive. maybe it's just me.
| truetaurus wrote:
| That true. Thinking on this to make it easier to know the
| situation.
| fastball wrote:
| Every single (50ish) one I did was offside.
| jkingsbery wrote:
| My understanding is that the offside rule is based on where the
| players' feet are, but based on this VAR is doing it based off of
| any body part. Do I have the rule right? Or is the VAR bad at
| distinguishing feet from other body parts?
|
| In any case, well done! In North American sports, there's a push
| to use a similar sort of system in baseball for calling
| balls/strikes, I'd be curious to compare my judgement against the
| computer system they're testing in some minor leagues.
| truetaurus wrote:
| If done right var could be awesome but it's flawed right now.
| Also there is no more "we will give you the benefit of the
| doubt". There needs to be a little leeway. About the rule:
| someone suggested to state the rule somewhere so we do that
| soon.
| bl0b wrote:
| I agree entirely.
|
| At least the VAR people should admit that there is an
| inherent margin of error in the technology (camera framerate,
| image resolution, blur..), and offsides calls should only be
| made when the result is outside that (somehow quantified)
| margin of error.
| samlittlewood wrote:
| Any part of the body that can play the ball - so everything
| except arms and hands.
| awb wrote:
| > My understanding is that the offside rule is based on where
| the players' feet are, but based on this VAR is doing it based
| off of any body part. Do I have the rule right?
|
| Not quite. Head, body and feet all count.
|
| https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules...
|
| > A player is in an offside position if: any part of the head,
| body or feet is in the opponents' half (excluding the halfway
| line) and any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the
| opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last
| opponent
|
| > The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers,
| are not considered.
|
| > A player is not in an offside position if level with the:
| second-last opponent or last two opponents
| analyst74 wrote:
| Fun idea, I tried a few, and VAR is always wrong, is that the
| point of the project, to show how bad they are?
| truetaurus wrote:
| That's up for debate of course. But generally I would say var
| has been horrible
| re wrote:
| VAR is Video Assistant Referee, i.e. an off-field (human)
| official that manually checks calls using instant replay:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_assistant_referee
|
| I don't follow association football at all and was unfamiliar
| with the term; based on the comments here I was guessing it was
| maybe some sort of machine learning algorithm.
| jbverschoor wrote:
| What is VAR? I thought it'd be some coding challenge about car,
| let, const
|
| It looks like it could mean Visual Automated Referee. Or Video
| Assisted Referee
| gabagool wrote:
| What's the ratio of not offsides to offsides on the site? Going
| through it, it seems like a ratio of 1:20. I know the goal of the
| website is to show how VAR is broken, but there seems to be a lot
| of bias in the uploading/presenting. It'd be cool if there was a
| more even split in the scenarios presented.
| bl0b wrote:
| I think the problem is that VAR for offsides errs only in the
| direction of call-things-offsides-that-shouldn't-be. I can't
| think of a time where it gave a goal that I though should have
| been called back, but so many times was a goal called back that
| seems like it shouldn't have.
| LanceH wrote:
| It's actually better than it used to be though. I can't even
| count the number of goals and breakaways that were called
| back by the linesman because _surely_ that guy who is open by
| 5 yards was offside.
|
| The current interpretation of the rule appears to take "level
| with" the 2nd to last defender to be a zone of infinitesimal
| width. So having your body lined up with the defender's isn't
| enough to be level with if a pinky finger is extended beyond
| them. A player could have his entire torso behind the
| defender and be offside if his arm or toe extends beyond the
| defender. The defender could literally (by any reasonable
| definition) be between the forward and the goal and it would
| still be offside.
|
| It's like they saw the NFL's ruling on what is a catch and
| thought it was a contest.
|
| I actually like VAR, because referees and linesmen preferred
| to call back goals rather than risk an offside goal be
| allowed. So it is progress, but they wrote the rule to be a
| mechanical judgement, rather than a human one (as rugby
| does).
| dvt wrote:
| This goes to show how absolutely _atrocious_ VAR is. Not only
| does it detect arms[1] as "offsides" in many cases, but in
| others it's _blatantly_ wrong[2]. In [2], there 's at least 2
| (potentially 3) Alaves players closer to the goal line than
| Barca's offense.
|
| [1] https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/offside-or-
| not.a...
|
| [2] https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/offside-or-
| not.a...
| vemv wrote:
| VAR is just people, it's not like an algorithm is dictating the
| results.
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(page generated 2021-04-15 23:00 UTC)