[HN Gopher] Apple Fitness+ introduces new workouts, trainers, an...
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Apple Fitness+ introduces new workouts, trainers, and Time to Walk
guest
Author : todsacerdoti
Score : 97 points
Date : 2021-04-15 15:02 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
| lifeisstillgood wrote:
| I run most every week day. I am proud to have worked myself up to
| a regular 5K and my running app always asks me if Inwant to share
| this, tell my friends etc.
|
| I cannot find a single reason I would want to share my run times,
| or that I have run. Any sharing just seems like a very unhumble
| brag or worse some attempt to shame or cajole others.
|
| The problem with social fitness is (I at least) cannot see it
| being very sociable - its competitive.
|
| Edit: actually - I am wrong. Find me people at my level, and help
| us connect for tips and support, then I get it.
| HaloZero wrote:
| You can compete and still be sociable? You can challenge your
| friends and etc. It works for some people certainly but not for
| me.
| sethhochberg wrote:
| I'll give you a counter-anecdote specifically about the
| competitive part: I'm currently about a year into the most
| consistent running habit I've maintained since I was running
| high school track years ago, and it all started and is
| occasionally sustained with Nike+ Run Club friend challenges.
|
| I'm not running with any of the friends I compete against, we
| all live in different parts of the country. But on the days
| when it would be really easy to just skip the workout for some
| reason, not falling behind in that month's challenge is
| incentive to go do it anyways.
|
| Could I have that kind of self control on my own? Sure. But I'm
| realistic enough to know that sometimes, a little social
| pressure goes a long way. Wanting to be the first person to hit
| N miles for the month (or just not be embarrassingly far behind
| the pack) is a very real motivating factor.
|
| (But FWIW I only feel this way about running because it isn't
| my favorite athletic activity. When I spend a day throwing down
| 80+ miles on my bike, I don't use Strava or anything like that,
| the ride is the reward. But I can't do an 80+ mile ride on a
| weeknight after work for some quick cardio)
| Wohlf wrote:
| A little positive peer pressure can be a good thing, a gentle
| reminder from my girlfriend that I wanted to eat better
| before I eat some junk food can really help with willpower.
| outside1234 wrote:
| It probably depends on your personality.
|
| I find it motivating to see other people running - just in the
| sense that they are getting out there - but also in what they
| did.
|
| I sometimes go and do the same route they did and doing that
| really motivates me because it is new ground and gives you that
| "exploration" kick.
|
| For me its not about bragging or competitiveness - just
| solidarity and new ideas.
| snegrus wrote:
| When I feel sad or bored I know for sure that some hyper
| energetic and happy dance trainer will improve my mood. Some
| moves are too fast, but trying to catch up and move in sync is
| worth the effort when you get it.
|
| They can adjust the voice to background music volume ratio to
| make it even better, but it's acceptable. The experience is
| completely different on a >55" TV vs anything else, imagine that
| the trainer seems real life size. Streaming on Airplay compatible
| tv is supported with 14.5 and beta.
|
| I really like it. I'm super excited for a new Apple TV because I
| want to play audio through the homepods but it's ok.
|
| Some improvements I would like to see across the system:
|
| - ability to rewind
|
| - history of workouts within the Fitness+ app, not normal app
|
| - group workouts, now both of us has to start the same workout at
| the same time, the phone is just muted in on the table while
| dance in front of the TV
|
| - some focus on making sure moves are done correctly, I would
| love some intro videos where it takes 30 minutes to show, repeat
| and help me (overall) understand some basic moves, some very
| basic intro series
|
| - overall more basic workouts or at a slower pace
|
| - live classes
|
| - muscle categories listed in a user friendly way, I would like
| to combine 2 strengths workouts that focus on different
| categories
| outoftheabyss wrote:
| I would add routines to that list. Right now they are just
| isolated workouts that don't belong to a wider programme
| admn2 wrote:
| Not allowing Airplay on Fitness+ at launch was such a faux pas
| on their part. Who wants to do a workout looking at their phone
| when there's a big tv in front of you? Glad they offered a fix,
| but wonder how many customers they lost initially.
| yohannparis wrote:
| Because they sell Apple TV that do not require your phone to
| us Apple Fitness +
| [deleted]
| mikestew wrote:
| I'm guessing that it had to be a technical issue of some sort
| that wasn't worth delaying the ship date. I mean, c'mon,
| $80/year + a (minimum) $300 watch + (minimum) $400 device,
| and you still can't play it on the big screen for lack of a
| $200, four-year-old device? Even if you think Apple to be
| greedy, surely one doesn't think they're _that_ greedy.
| noarchy wrote:
| So it appears that the only way to get Fitness+ with Apple One is
| to go with the most expensive (Premier) option? That means you're
| also getting Music, TV, Arcade, News+, and iCloud. It's awfully
| presumptuous to think one would necessarily want all of those
| things. They really need an a la carte, bundle option that gives
| you a discount with multiple services.
| elicash wrote:
| Apple should consider other verticals for video, rather than the
| tv shows on Apple TV Plus. For example, home improvement
| projects. Gardening. Rather than trying to reinvent netflix they
| should expand on what's been so great about Fitness+
|
| That said, admittedly those things don't sell more watches.
| pokstad wrote:
| Is there a way to disable "Time to Walk" on Apple Watch? I don't
| use or care for that feature and it takes up the entire face of
| the watch when I'm trying to start a new workout. Shoving a
| feature down your customers throat seems like a UX fail.
| [deleted]
| kemayo wrote:
| There's an option at the bottom of the Workout settings on the
| watch to disable automatically adding the time-to-walk workouts
| to the watch. I think if you delete the current one (by
| swiping) and disable that setting, they won't be added again
| unless you manually trigger it from the "add workout" button in
| the Workouts app?
| jdeibele wrote:
| Thank you for posting this. I eventually figured out that I
| had to hold and swipe to make the delete option show up. Just
| swiping it started it.
| minxomat wrote:
| Still not usable in Germany. I don't get it, when will companies
| realize there's a huge market for content in Germany (and
| presumable other EU countries) even if it's not translated.
| ulimn wrote:
| Same in Switzerland. I don't even know why they released the
| Apple One subscription without this.
| leokennis wrote:
| Yep. Especially Apple sucks at this. Is English fitness
| instruction worse than <local language> instruction? Yes. Is it
| better than nothing at all? Of course...
| ska wrote:
| Are there legal constraints on this? Some countries labeling
| laws etc. make it hard-to-impossible to release English only.
| xiphias2 wrote:
| Usually user manuals have to be translated, but not the
| content. Translating the UI would be quite cheaper for
| Apple than making new films for example.
| ska wrote:
| This is what I'm wondering about - I'm not sure what the
| threshold is for "this is too much of a pain in the ass,
| not going to bother", but I don't know this space.
|
| In general people who haven't done it seem to really
| underestimate the work in releasing a product in
| different countries. Especially with software, it seems
| like you don't have to do "anything" but there can be a
| lot of fiddly things even to figure out what the
| requirements really are.
| xiphias2 wrote:
| Apple makes it really hard to buy some of its products
| outside the US legally. M1 Macbook Pro with 16GB RAM was
| not available in Costa Rica, so I tried to order it from
| the US. All official shops cancelled my purchase, as
| Apple forbids them to export. They didn't allow drop
| shipping either. At the end I had to use EBay, which was
| much harder (and more expensive) to do.
| macintux wrote:
| Active discussion underway of the other side of this coin,
| Peloton disabling Apple Watch functionality:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26819577
| freewilly1040 wrote:
| Somewhat unrelated but it's crazy to me that in this time period
| where antitrust is supposedly something the big companies are
| afraid of, Apple is using such flagrantly anticompetitive tactics
| to push their software offerings.
|
| Abusing the Settings app to push free trials of subscription
| services like Fitness+ alongside iOS updates is really
| frustrating.
| zomgwat wrote:
| I tried Apple Fitness+ and I'm not a fan. I don't understand why
| I need an Apple Watch. I have MacBooks, Apple TVs, iPhones and
| iPads. I don't want a watch.
|
| Also, Fitness+ doesn't offer programs (yet?). Programs work great
| for busy lives because there's no thinking about what you're
| going to do each day. I just follow the schedule, do the workout
| and move on with my day.
| anonuser123456 wrote:
| >I don't understand why I need an Apple Watch.
|
| I have a series 6. It is my favorite Apple product ever.
|
| 1) UV index, temp at a glance.
|
| 2) ECG monitor - Has done more for me than 4 holter monitor
| tests.
|
| 3) Can ditch my phone and still pay, call, access calendar,
| maps.
|
| 4) Seamless and fast charging.
|
| 5) Track various interesting health parametrs (O2 during sleep,
| heart rate during the day, activity levels etc). Syncs all of
| those in a clean interface (Apple health).
|
| 6) Tracks my chosen workout with literally just a touch and
| swipe. Also tracks if or me incase I forget to touch and swipe.
|
| From a health perspective it is freaking amazing.
| zomgwat wrote:
| All good points. I didn't articulate it well but I mostly
| meant why do I need the watch to use Fitness+. If i do ever
| get one it'll be for running.
| hnrodey wrote:
| I watch a Watch holdout for the first couple years. Now I've
| had one since Series 3 and am extremely pleased with the
| device. Integration with iPhone is seamless and makes the
| interactions subtly easier.
|
| I get it though when someone says "I don't understand". I would
| tell you that it's similar to trying to tell someone they
| should go to double monitors when they've only ever used a
| single monitor and don't see any reasons to try a second.
|
| Highly recommend.
| uli31 wrote:
| You really don't get the concept of a watch? You sure?
|
| I used to lose my phone more whenever I went out drinking until
| I got the watch. That's because I used my phone to tell the
| time. So it was in-and-out of the pocket. Now, I keep my phone
| in my bag and I haven't lost one in two years.
| zomgwat wrote:
| I get it. I see why people including my wife likes the Apple
| Watch. I just don't want one. I guess I've reached device
| capacity for now.
|
| That's especially true when it comes to working out. I have a
| small slice in the day to workout and I don't want to fiddle
| with stuff.
|
| It could be that I'm feeling residual frustration from
| attempting to try Fitness+ on an iPad which I never figured
| out. I just don't understand why I need a watch to view
| workout videos. I guess that means I'm not the target market.
| Thankfully there are good alternatives.
| guymcgwire wrote:
| Apple Fitness+ (specifically the 20 and 30 minute HIIT workouts)
| have completely changed my life. I started in January and I've
| lost 15 pounds so far. I sleep so much better at night (also
| tracked by Apple Watch). I fall asleep within 10 minutes of
| getting in bed and I (usually) sleep all the way through the
| night now. The effects on my anxiety levels and sleep patterns
| have caused it to become a personal obsession. I'm honestly a
| little scared of missing a HIIT workout. I've tried to get
| friends and family to do it, but there's still a lot of
| resistance for some reason. But I think that Apple is tapping
| into something huge. The iPhone is a toxic obsession. Fitness+ is
| a healthy obsession. This is the version of Apple I want to
| support and believe in.
| subpixel wrote:
| I have all the Insanity and P90X videos, and stream them on a TV
| in the garage.
|
| This lacks gamification, but there are other ways to get the
| positive peer pressure (Strava, workout Slack channel, etc).
| Someone1234 wrote:
| People haven't really grasped yet that the future of fitness
| isn't equipment it is ecosystems.
|
| You look at something like Peloton and your natural instinct is
| to compare it to other equipment manufacturers, but that's wrong.
| Consumers aren't spending 50% more of Peloton because a Peloton
| bike/tred is 50% better than their nearest competitor. People are
| spending that money to be in the Peloton _ecosystem_. To work out
| with friends in Peloton.
|
| So I say to people that Apple is Peloton's biggest competitor,
| and they look at me like I'm a moron. Because they see equipment
| and I see ecosystems. I believe fitness will be the next "social
| media" land rush, and most traditional equipment makers are
| unprepared (they're naively copying Peloton on features without
| _really_ grasping what Peloton is building).
|
| PS - Phase 1: Social Media Fitness, Phase 2: Gamification of
| Fitness (apps/games inc. achievements tied directly into
| equipment, like the "iPhone" of fitness equipment).
| Graffur wrote:
| I am surprised they look at you like a moron. Myself and all my
| friends have fitbits. The reason we all have and use fitbits is
| because that is what we're all connected on. If one friend got
| a functionally better but cheaper watch off Amazon they
| wouldn't be able to join us in our group challenges and
| comparisons. This has actually happened a few times but after a
| while that person got what the group had.
|
| That being said there are apps that bring this up a level and
| let you connect multiple products and devices. If one of these
| apps becomes popular then it's less dependent on what device
| you own.
| technofiend wrote:
| >People haven't really grasped yet that the future of fitness
| isn't equipment it is ecosystems.
|
| You're right but I hate that future, to be honest. I don't
| really want to buy a Garmin phone to talk to my Garmin watch so
| I can buy into their ecosystem. Apple watches may be fantastic
| but there are still better dedicated fitness watches out there
| and frankly the idea of a watch dictating my cellphone choice
| (as the Apple Watch does) makes me completely reject the idea
| of buying that watch.
| rstupek wrote:
| I think the ecosystem being referred to isn't the device
| ecosystem but the "social network" sharing ecosystem
| newsclues wrote:
| How long until device and social media networks are linked?
| lancesells wrote:
| They already are aren't they? Most social networks launch
| on iOS only at the beginning.
| technofiend wrote:
| Oh, you're right. I see that now. Having said that Apple
| isn't really big on cross-platform features either. I don't
| see a Facetime Android client, for example, and have no
| expectation they'd make Apple Fitness+ work on anything but
| their own devices; after all the byline is "Apple Fitness+
| ... powered by Apple Watch." And since the watch requires
| their phone that's a big investment if you just want to
| exercise with friends.
| eric_h wrote:
| > Having said that Apple isn't really big on cross-
| platform features either.
|
| While I generally agree with you, Apple is putting apple
| tv+ on roku - it's not a stretch to suggest they would
| use a similar strategy for fitness+:
|
| https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/13/22381067/apple-tv-
| plus-ro...
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| These sorts of things are probably going to appeal to
| people who just want a bit of a sweat.
|
| Everyone else is going to the gym because they don't want
| to look at another screen, or they want to hang out with
| other people, or they realise you can't learn to snatch
| from YouTube. Etc.
|
| Traditional gyms and activity aren't going anywhere.
| skinnymuch wrote:
| FaceTime was supposed to be open source or an open
| protocol (I think the latter) once upon a time a decade
| ago.
| MBCook wrote:
| My understanding of the story is Steve Jobs just decided
| to say that when he announced it without checking with
| the lawyers, and it probably ran into patent problems.
| dagmx wrote:
| Fitness+ already integrates with third party devices via
| GymKit however.
| mtberatwork wrote:
| > Phase 1: Social Media Fitness, Phase 2: Gamification of
| Fitness
|
| Seems like Zwift is Peloton's biggest competitor then?
| Someone1234 wrote:
| It is definitely one to keep a close eye on. This whole land
| rush is just getting started, but as it heats up if Zwift can
| keep up growth they could benefit greatly (be it directly or
| via a tech company buying them).
| cglace wrote:
| I really like zwift but I don't find it motivates me at all.
| throwawaygh wrote:
| My general impression is that zwift caters to the "serious
| cyclist" crowd and peloton caters to the more typical
| (upper middle class) consumer. It's a bit silly to spend
| $3K (and space!) on a standing exercise bike when you
| already have at least one bike in the $3K range and often a
| second in the $10K+ range, both of which you'd probably
| prefer riding on trainer over Peloton anyways.
| nradov wrote:
| Tonal and Zwift are also trying to build the same sort of
| fitness ecosystems as Peleton. Tonal has a wall mounted display
| for weight training with instructors. Zwift is designing their
| own smart bike (and maybe a treadmill too). Too early to say if
| they'll succeed.
| clairity wrote:
| it's not just ecosystem => network effects => winner take all.
| apple is trying to skim the cream off the top with fitness+
| like they did with music and itunes, but the market
| characteristics are different here.
|
| first, the market opportunity is much smaller. everyone listens
| to music (and has a phone nowadays). that's a huge reachable
| market. only the well-off will pay for fitness+, so you're
| looking at <20% of everyone to start.
|
| second, music was already in the transition from physical
| (cd's) to digital (mp3's) to streaming (just waiting for high-
| speed internet penetration). the fitness market is not in that
| same transition. it's still constrained by the physical world,
| no matter how 'social' it gets.
|
| third, peloton's hardware is what makes the ecosystem, not the
| other way around (which is apple's strategy). it creates a halo
| of influence around the purchaser through price and product
| that apple simply can't replicate with just an apple tv, a
| watch, and a subscription. (i don't like peloton personally,
| but the market dynamics here are recognizable)
|
| i'd be surprised if fitness+ really takes off. it has narrow
| appeal, a relatively high price, and little cachet or
| differentiation. zooming out, apple's "plus" strategy overall
| strays away from their strength in hardware-based consumer
| products, and i'm skeptical they can differentiate enough to
| retain that business long term, whereas homekit, carkit, and
| the like couch very neatly into that strength, and likely
| represents durable future expansion.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| > i'd be surprised if fitness+ really takes off. it has
| narrow appeal, a relatively high price, and little cachet or
| differentiation.
|
| Fitness+ comes with one of the tiers of Apple One. That makes
| it "free" to the user. Let's say you _only_ wanted Music,
| TV+, and the storage (especially useful if you have multiple
| iDevices in your family and you want cloud backup):
|
| Music - $9.99 individual, or $14.99 family
|
| TV+ - $4.99 (already at $20 for a family here)
|
| 2TB Storage - $9.99 (now we're at $30)
|
| So Fitness+, News+, and Arcade are "free" additions if you
| get Apple One Premier. Of course, you need an Apple Watch to
| use Fitness+ but you can use it with any garage sale
| treadmill, bike, rowing machine, yoga mat, dumbbell set, etc.
|
| And if you have the Apple Watch you've already been able to
| drop things like Runkeeper and Strava for tracking running
| and cycling.
| batter wrote:
| While they're investing in marketing / engineering and
| they'll see user base grows, especially if products is free
| or almost free. But at some point of time question will
| come to revenue per user. And that will be completely
| different problem.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| In this specific case, Fitness+ is relatively cheap to
| produce (all the content is theirs except for the music,
| but they already have a good relationship with music
| producers) and cheap to distribute. They make 1-3 new
| videos per instructor a week. I doubt it's costing them
| much per user to distribute the content. However, the
| Apple Watch is a nice profitable device for them and
| Fitness+ requires Apple Watch. So for anyone who already
| has the highest tier subscription (probably a decent
| chunk of multi-iDevice families out there) they will find
| themselves having Fitness+ but being unable to use it,
| which creates one extra motivator to buy an Apple Watch.
|
| That's where they end up making money anyways, 75% or so
| of their revenue is from device sales (computers, phones,
| tablets, watches, etc.). The services help to keep people
| within that hardware ecosystem which gets people onto the
| upgrade cycle or to consider a second or third Apple
| device instead of just having one.
| clairity wrote:
| yah, but $30/mo literally puts it out of reach for 60+% of
| households, and that's on top of buying an apple tv and an
| apple watch for each user. that's just part of the
| narrowness of its appeal.
|
| apple has historically targeted the mass premium customer
| segment, able to command a higher price and still entice
| the broader public to buy. fitness+ (and apple one) has the
| higher price but not the broader appeal. it's just not
| differentiated enough.
|
| a personal anecdote: i've had apple tv+ for free for the
| past year and have watched it maybe a half dozen times. the
| shows are so overproduced to be tone-deaf. they're now
| trying to buy their way into the market via awards, so
| we'll see if that turns into any compelling content and
| moreover, more subscriptions.
| skinnymuch wrote:
| What are the tone deaf shows you're talking about? The
| Morning Show for sure is one. The other 3 shows I've
| watched have been good to great. Tone deaf is a very
| common attribute of media any way.
| clairity wrote:
| i honestly can't remember offhand, it was that
| unmemorable. maybe i should have said staid or sterile
| rather than tone-deaf.
|
| apple tv+ is just not robust or differentiated enough
| from netflix, hbo, disney+, or anything else to be a
| thing. disney+ goes all-in on family, while hbo goes all-
| in on adult. netflix has the all-you-can-eat buffet model
| where you'll be comforted to find something, anything, to
| watch in a pinch. apple tv+ has nothing like that.
| there's no brand or identity to form a memorable market
| segment around.
| freewilly1040 wrote:
| Apple One lacks a compelling tentpole offering that most
| people would want. TV+ is what, the 4th place streaming
| subscription service? Apple music has 1/2 the market share
| of Spotify. Storage, maybe, but 2TB is quite a lot and I
| doubt most customers are buying that much.
| ballenf wrote:
| 2TB would be a rare purchase if the next tier down
| weren't 1/10 the size.
| vineyardmike wrote:
| I suspect most people see Apple One as Apple Music + <the
| other service they want> and they get the other 5 for
| free.
| ksec wrote:
| Yes. That is why apart from Apple Music+ ( and iCloud ),
| all the other services does not have a fix COGS to each
| user but large one off cost.
| skinnymuch wrote:
| The storage goes from 200GB to 2 TB. 200 GB isn't hard to
| use up in a family. Even 2 TB could be not enough for a
| family that uses iCloud to host most of their photos and
| videos. Apple's storage pricing is super lame for a
| company that is so profitable. Really scraping at the
| edges with the silly pricing.
| dkrich wrote:
| I don't think this is a controversial take. Most everyone
| buying a Peloton is doing so because of the classes, the bike
| is just a status symbol.
| zozin wrote:
| I don't really see Apple Fitness+ and Peloton as competitors.
| First, the Peloton bike/equipment is both targeted at and only
| really make sense for the 1%. Apple's hardware is a few hundred
| bucks and has insane usability beyond Fitness+.
|
| If you're speaking about just the apps and not hardware, again,
| I don't think they're direct competitors. Peloton's app sans
| Peloton hardware is basically just YouTube videos... There are
| dozens of content producers that cater to everyone's style or
| form of working out. Why pay Peloton $13/mo. just to get into
| the ecosystem? An ecosystem that was designed from the ground-
| up for people who make +$100K/yr., so the average American
| probably doesn't have friends who are using Peloton's app.
| Apple Fitness+ on the other-hand is designed to work in tandem
| with your cheapish Apple Watch. The fusion between hardware and
| software is where the magic happens. Peloton doesn't have that
| unless you have a spare bedroom + $3,000 to spend on fitness
| upfront.
| TameAntelope wrote:
| The other article on the front page must make you feel pretty
| correct, then!
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26819577
| anonymouse008 wrote:
| > You look at something like Peloton and your natural instinct
| is to compare it to other equipment manufacturers, but that's
| wrong. Consumers aren't spending 50% more of Peloton because a
| Peloton bike/tred is 50% better than their nearest competitor.
| People are spending that money to be in the Peloton ecosystem.
| To work out with friends in Peloton.
|
| Did you just say 'Crossfit' without saying 'Crossfit'?
|
| 'Gyms' without saying 'Gyms'?
|
| I agree, these products realize that the physical movement via
| machine is only one part of the greater whole... if these
| companies can replicate the rest of the Gym/CF/WE experience,
| there is a great win hiding in plain sight.
| watwut wrote:
| Gyms are about equipment. They are not social places. You
| don't go hang around there. You don't talk to people there.
| oarsinsync wrote:
| Mine was. It had a pool table in the entrance too. I used
| to go to the gym on a Saturday morning to sweat out the
| hangover and chat shit with the others doing the same.
|
| My friends was. It was a grotty thing in the basement. It
| was primarily about the equipment. It was a lifting gym.
| The folk that went there would hang out, help each other,
| and talk plenty. They all had a common interest: lifting.
| They also thought people like me in my gym above were
| posers. That's fine too.
|
| Not everyone uses a gym the same way. Not all gyms are the
| same.
| anonymouse008 wrote:
| Ah, there are plenty of other ways to communicate than just
| talking...
|
| Perhaps this won't be replicated in the digital sphere, but
| the identity behind "leader boards" and physical
| aspirationals, which I believe these digital offerings
| still provide, is an effective means to create community
| and followings.
|
| Heck a couple great friendships began in silence for
| months, with strict social distancing before it was cool
| gumby wrote:
| That's true, and what makes this decision so foolish. By
| raising the bar slightly they are inducing some people to
| choose Fitness+.
|
| Avoiding this is why Apple made the iPod compatible with
| Windows.
|
| Spotify is thriving on Apple platforms even though Apple has
| had its own music products for longer than Spotify has been
| around.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| > Spotify is thriving on Apple platforms even though Apple
| has had its own music products for longer than Spotify has
| been around.
|
| Some portion of Spotify's success, I'd argue, is that they
| were the first successful entrant in the streaming space. The
| product isn't particularly remarkable compared to other
| options and in fact has some notable downsides (such as its
| ever-changing-for-unclear-reasons UI) but it's what people
| know and thus what people use.
|
| It having a free ad-supported plan is also a massive factor,
| but I suppose that would fall under "lowering the bar".
| ksec wrote:
| >The product isn't particularly remarkable compared to
| other options
|
| It is not that Spotify is exceptionally good, it is just
| the others are comically bad.
| michaelt wrote:
| Tell me more about how 'working out with friends' works on
| Peloton.
|
| I've only tried online exercise classes once or twice, but
| there hasn't been much social interaction - everyone's on mute,
| and a few feet away from the screen and keyboard to have space
| for their activities.
|
| Or is it more the Strava-style 'log your exercise and get likes
| and gamified motivation' asynchronous model?
| matwood wrote:
| The biggest 'social' part is that my friends and I end up
| doing the same rides, and even though it's at different times
| we end up competing and chasing each other. I had some goals
| I thought were going to take months, but I've already blown
| threw them b/c I could chase my friends ghost on his ride. If
| I do a ride first, I text it out to everyone basically
| throwing the down gauntlet.
|
| There's also a talent component. I've done everything from
| spin, to weight classes, to powerlifting for many years when
| I was younger, and the Peloton trainers are very good. They
| are good motivators, and they have taught me quite a few
| warmup techniques I'm carrying to other areas as life gets
| back to normal. YMMV.
| Someone1234 wrote:
| Here are some of the social features Peloton are building:
|
| https://blog.onepeloton.com/peloton-community-features/
|
| Leaderboard: Compete with friends/others.
|
| Tags: Like groups/circles, you can be invited/invite on the
| basis or compete with people in that tag.
|
| High Fives: A "Like"
|
| Following Friends: Essentially their fitness "stream" showing
| what they've done/are doing.
|
| Video Chatting: Chat with friends while you workout together.
|
| Plus you'll get alerted when a friend is in a class,
| encouraging you to join them.
|
| https://blog.onepeloton.com/peloton-sessions/
|
| Schedule workouts with friends, compare each other on the
| leaderboard.
| hcurtiss wrote:
| I haven't used it, but my 10 year old daughter seems to enjoy
| riding at the same time as her friend. Evidently, they share
| a real time a mutual video chat. You both join the same class
| and one of you finds the other in the list of participants
| and request to chat.
| LeSaucy wrote:
| NordicTrack/iFit is a great example of equipment manufacturers
| that just don't get it.
| [deleted]
| mikestew wrote:
| I'm with sibling commenter, how so? We got a year of iFit
| with the rowing machine, and considering that my wife uses it
| several times a week on both rower and treadmill, I'll
| probably renew it when the time comes in a few months. In the
| case of the rower, it's nice in that it will adjust the
| resistance automatically.
|
| I mostly use Apple Fitness+ when on the rower, but iFit is
| nice in that it is not restricted to studio workouts. There
| is a far deeper library on iFit, and more variety. Outdoor
| workouts, indoor if that's your thing, a "Time to Walk"
| equivalent before Apple thought of it. I don't know if we'll
| renew the sub or not, but I think iFit gets it just fine.
| shanecleveland wrote:
| How do you mean? Just curious because my wife, who always
| hated running, is killing it with a NordicTrack treadmill and
| iFit. She bought a shirt to support her favorite instructor,
| she is part of some Facebook groups, and talks quite a bit
| about the "experience" of each run.
|
| I don't quite get it myself, so I am not advocating for one
| or the other. But it seems to be working for her.
| et-al wrote:
| > Phase 1: Social Media Fitness, Phase 2: Gamification of
| Fitness
|
| We definitely saw this with Nike+ back in the late naughts [0].
| Then Strava in the mid-teens, and now Peloton.
|
| Competitive people want to compete with their friends, not just
| against themselves.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike%2B
| _the_inflator wrote:
| I totally agree.
|
| Also Corona: Outdoor sports is one of the few accepted social
| activities, at least in some parts.
| xbar wrote:
| Surges coincide.
| nnlsoccer wrote:
| Phase 3: Connection of all Apple health fitness tracking/health
| tracking data. As wearables and body data monitoring continue
| to evolve and increase the number of bio markers/biometrics
| measured, apple is poised to integrate these in a way that
| Peloton and other fitness focused brands may or may not be.
| ksec wrote:
| Phase 4: Those aggregate data from Millions of users provides
| additional insight that is only available from Apple. Health
| Insurance with these Data ( and your consent to use it ) will
| get better offers and Apple gets commissions. ( Services
| Revenue )
| nnlsoccer wrote:
| Agreed. That is certainly the dark side of that path. From
| a user/patient perspective, the interesting side of that
| equation might be a world where those biometrics are
| tracked and integrated (with your consent) with an EHR so
| that your doctor can see continuous metrics in a way that
| is actionable for clinical decision making.
| flixic wrote:
| Available in English-speaking countries only.
|
| I'm from Lithuania, none of Apple services are localised to
| Lithuanian (they are all in English), but I'm sure we'll have to
| wait until service is localised to 10+ languages before we can
| access it, unlocalised, in Lithuania.
| varispeed wrote:
| I don't get this strategy - surely if they continue to avoid
| releasing products in English, people will have fewer chances
| to interact with the language and learn. On the other hand if
| they were permitted to just drop an English version they would
| probably have never released the Lithuanian one.
| dkrich wrote:
| I feel like this is one case where Apple will steal share from
| Peloton. Apple already has the hardware to integrate, and for
| people who either aren't using Peloton or are just using the $14
| a month service, switching costs are small. Right now Peloton has
| branding behind it as the gold standard in this space, but Apple
| is already viewed as a premium brand. I think Peloton invented a
| category and others, maybe Apple will do it better.
| blakesterz wrote:
| I usually feel like Apple targets their products and
| advertisements at a pretty young demographic. The TV ads feel
| like they're all about 25 year olds with lots of money, friends
| and free time.
|
| This feels like it is solidly aimed at 'older' people, and by
| older I mean not the same group that those TV ads are after.
|
| "Workouts for Older Adults, trainers, and Time to Walk guest"...
| and that guest is Jane Fonda.
| hcurtiss wrote:
| I agree. And at least as near as I can tell, with only a couple
| weeks of using it, none of the workouts are particularly
| rigorous. It definitely seems oriented toward the "never done
| this before" or otherwise frail crowd.
| mikestew wrote:
| I've used Fitness+ since release, and if you're not getting
| the rigorous workout you desire, you're simply not working
| hard enough. Because there's nothing holding me back from
| drilling myself straight into the ground during rowing
| intervals. OTOH, I can sit there and just cruise if I like,
| with no one the wiser. Strength workouts: grab bigger
| dumbbells. Etc, etc. The only workouts I can think of where
| this strategy might not work are yoga and "mindful cool
| down". And maybe the weightless core workouts, dunno.
| 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
| Is apple fitness+ still doing its bs of only letting you see the
| workout on your phone? (or ipad or apple tv if you happen to have
| those). They actually got me into a peloton membership, after
| apple's marketing made me think it's a cool product, but since i
| dont want to try to see it on my tiny phone I almost immediately
| turned to alternatives.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| Yes and it's annoying. We got a TV that supports AirPlay for
| the basement (which is also the gym) in anticipation of a long
| term guest (MIL, didn't happen because of COVID travel
| restrictions for her country) and without buying an Apple TV I
| can't cast the classes to it outside the audio. If you're on a
| rowing machine or treadmill or bike the iPad works well, but
| for things like yoga or strength classes I'm not dropping $200
| on something that would be only used (for now) for exercise
| classes when Peloton (via my sister's subscription presently)
| works fine over AirPlay to the TV. I've already spent $$$
| furnishing the basement and basement bedroom for a visit that
| never happened.
| DenseComet wrote:
| snegrus mentioned that this is fixed on iOS 14.5
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26822148
| Jtsummers wrote:
| Well that's fantastic news for me then. I missed that
| detail in their comment earlier.
| lifeisstillgood wrote:
| So the future is the first successful "online app-enabled
| celebrity Fitness DVD" - the Jane Fonda Workout.
|
| It cannot be a Peloton tie in or something - that is like having
| a concert that only fan club members can come to.
|
| So ... something - independent - like Apple? Is Apple providing
| the DVD here and someone else needs to record Jane?
| melling wrote:
| I'm a fan of Fitness+. My girlfriend and I do a 30 minute yoga in
| the morning at least 5 days a week.
|
| Keep telling myself I'm going to add a 10 minute core...
|
| Thought gamification of fitness was silly at first. I appear to
| be as susceptible as everyone else.
| balls187 wrote:
| > Thought gamification of fitness was silly at first. I appear
| to be as susceptible as everyone else.
|
| Same here.
|
| I'm on my 12th straight week of closing my rings.
| foobiter wrote:
| I think there's some shame associated with gamification; like
| if it works for you, somehow it makes you unintelligent... but
| as long as you're aware of it don't lose sight of how you're
| being manipulated then it can be a valuable tool just like
| anything else.
| hk1337 wrote:
| As long as it syncs to Strava, it's good.
| balls187 wrote:
| I really like Apple Fitness+
|
| It offers enough variety which is perfect to slot in as cross
| training cardio to supplement my training.
|
| I wouldn't get it on it's own; but as part of Apple One, I will
| definitely use it.
| varispeed wrote:
| I would love to use such app but I don't trust where my data will
| land and I also disagree with Apple anti-competitive behaviour
| and practices of exploiting customers. That being said, I wonder
| if someone is working on an open-source alternative to Apple
| Watch and its fitness features? I would totally buy such product
| if I could self-host the data.
| blensor wrote:
| It's not a fitness tracker but if you are looking for an open
| source fitness app for VR then check out VRWorkout (disclaimer
| I am the developer)
|
| It's a full body fitness game with hand tracking (built with
| GodotEngine). You can use the VRHealth Institute app to provide
| biofeedback to the app and control the difficulty dynamically
| if you have a heart rate sensor.
|
| Data sharing is completely opt-in but you can also write your
| own backend to store any data
|
| https://vrworkout.at
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c-74EfrKAQ
| boynamedsue wrote:
| At $70 a year, I think Fitness+ is a steal.
|
| I went from hating the treadmill to loving it because of Apple
| Fitness+. Scott Carvin is the instructor I use the most and he's
| amazing. I also use Anya for rower workouts and she's amazing
| too.
|
| I'm wondering if a startup will come along to turn this concept
| into a creator-instructor marketplace that ties into Apple Watch,
| etc.
| ra7 wrote:
| What does Fitness+ have that Nike Training Club, which is free,
| doesn't?
|
| Both of them let you workout with a trainer via video and track
| the workout in the Activity app. It's just that for NTC you
| need a separate app to start workouts, but the data is still
| aggregated in the same Health app.
| 411111111111111 wrote:
| I just downloaded the nike app and couldn't find any sessions
| for rowing, cycling etc. I don't think you can even compare
| them, their target demographic is too different.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| Maybe you can help explain this transition from hating, to
| loving, because of software. This concept is completely foreign
| to me and I honestly struggle to understand why anyone signs up
| for Fitness+ which - as far as I can tell - is basically a
| glorified list of workout tapes just like we used to get on VHS
| in the 80s.
|
| I'm not trying to degrade anyone here, I am genuinely curious.
| Is Apple+ more than that? Is there some magic sauce I'm
| missing?
| foogazi wrote:
| To me the magic sauce is the Apple Watch
|
| I bought an Echelon bike, but switched to the Apple Fitness
| bundle when it came out
|
| I use the same bike, it doesn't matter which one I use
| because the watch tracks my heart rate/calories. It doesn't
| track distance and I'm not racing anyone else , but I didn't
| have any friends on Echelon either.
|
| The watch is with me when I go walking, running, hiking. It
| prompts me to move when I sit around a lot - gamifying my
| workouts to keep the streak going, etc
| wonnage wrote:
| The actual workouts are the same stuff you can find for free
| on Youtube.
|
| There's some gamification where you can see your effort
| relative to other users during a workout (the "burn bar").
| The HIIT workouts (maybe others) come with modifications and
| they also make a point of giving sign language instructions.
| The on-screen display basically mirrors the watch workout
| screen, but it's nice to have it there vs having to look at
| your watch. Lastly, it's just nice to have a bunch of
| workouts of consistent quality/intensity + clear instructions
| and no ads.
|
| Honestly all of these features just solve some minor
| annoyances with home workouts. But it's hard to get motivated
| to exercise, and every little friction counts. You don't have
| to flip through YT to find the right video, the burn bar is
| more motivating than a simple calorie count, and you can
| follow the modifications if you get tired/are unable to
| perform a movement, instead of just giving up.
|
| Lastly, the cost itself can be motivational. I used to pay
| $200 a month to go to a fancy gym, to lift weights available
| at any gym. IMO it was worth it because the cost and nice
| environment helped motivate me to go.
| balls187 wrote:
| First, it's the difference between streaming Netflix and
| renting a VHS tape.
|
| The experience is transformative. A simple touch interface to
| find the exact workout you want, plus a recommendation
| engine.
|
| There is some window dressing on the workouts, showing your
| metrics in real time on the screen, plus logging the data for
| historical tracking purposes.
| ericmay wrote:
| Idk if it's necessarily more than that, though it has the
| potential to be.
|
| One thing I do like about it is the monitoring of the Apple
| Watch with the fitness app. If you have an Apple TV for
| example they have the ability to see in real time your heart
| rate and cardio burn. Maybe down the line there are AI
| instructors? Idk.
|
| Compared to a VHS tape that's static.
| boynamedsue wrote:
| It was instructor-led workouts for me where I could also
| measure my progress.
|
| I've loathed working out. I'm not a gym sort of person. I
| tried watching Netflix and YouTube, and listening to Spotify,
| etc on the treadmill and always had poor results.
|
| I use an iPad to watch the Fitness+ instruction and tying
| that to my Watch is just what I need.
| hbosch wrote:
| >Maybe you can help explain this transition from hating, to
| loving, because of software. This concept is completely
| foreign to me and I honestly struggle to understand why
| anyone signs up for Fitness+ which - as far as I can tell -
| is basically a glorified list of workout tapes just like we
| used to get on VHS in the 80s.
|
| Kinda, but what's wrong with that? We didn't leave fitness
| tapes behind because they were _bad_ , we left them behind
| because we moved to streaming. Also, in general, it can be
| hard to hold yourself truly accountable in the middle of hard
| workout... I know, anecdotally, that I absolutely end up
| pushing myself harder following an instructor (IRL,
| livestream, or taped) than I would if I was totally on my
| own. Not only the verbal motivation, but the reminders of
| posture and so on. I also had a personal trainer in a gym for
| a while, same deal... he helped me with my form, my diet, and
| I could always dig a little deeper when he was pushing me
| during a workout.
|
| >Is Apple+ more than that? Is there some magic sauce I'm
| missing?
|
| It's how you use it. Without an Apple Watch, your vitals are
| tracked and you can get an idea for how much impact your
| workouts are having on your health. The Watch also gamefies
| the whole thing with rings and awards... low extrinsic value,
| sure, but people love it.
| gadders wrote:
| Unless they have Mark Rippetoe doing the strength workouts, it's
| no sale.
| wrycoder wrote:
| Too fat for Apple these days, sadly. And not pc.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| I got a free trial for updating my Apple Watch, and I like it. I
| recently went through all my subscriptions, rented VPSs for
| experiments, streaming entertainment, etc. I paired down what I
| pay for every month, but I updated my family to Apple's new all
| you can eat digital services. There is redundancy since we
| subscribe to Google YouTube Music, but Apple's deal includes
| arcade games (surprised that I am spending 1/2 hour a week on
| them, but some are really fun), Fitness+, Apple News+, Apple TV+,
| and tons of iCloud storage. I think the whole thing together is
| an OK deal.
|
| A neighbor gave me a boxed set of Qigong DVDs (which I digitized
| for easy use) that I spend a lot of time on, but I have allocated
| some for that time to Apple Fitness+ core strength lessons, and
| their walking with interesting people material is pretty cool.
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