[HN Gopher] Apple Fitness+ introduces new workouts, trainers, an...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple Fitness+ introduces new workouts, trainers, and Time to Walk
       guest
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 97 points
       Date   : 2021-04-15 15:02 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | lifeisstillgood wrote:
       | I run most every week day. I am proud to have worked myself up to
       | a regular 5K and my running app always asks me if Inwant to share
       | this, tell my friends etc.
       | 
       | I cannot find a single reason I would want to share my run times,
       | or that I have run. Any sharing just seems like a very unhumble
       | brag or worse some attempt to shame or cajole others.
       | 
       | The problem with social fitness is (I at least) cannot see it
       | being very sociable - its competitive.
       | 
       | Edit: actually - I am wrong. Find me people at my level, and help
       | us connect for tips and support, then I get it.
        
         | HaloZero wrote:
         | You can compete and still be sociable? You can challenge your
         | friends and etc. It works for some people certainly but not for
         | me.
        
         | sethhochberg wrote:
         | I'll give you a counter-anecdote specifically about the
         | competitive part: I'm currently about a year into the most
         | consistent running habit I've maintained since I was running
         | high school track years ago, and it all started and is
         | occasionally sustained with Nike+ Run Club friend challenges.
         | 
         | I'm not running with any of the friends I compete against, we
         | all live in different parts of the country. But on the days
         | when it would be really easy to just skip the workout for some
         | reason, not falling behind in that month's challenge is
         | incentive to go do it anyways.
         | 
         | Could I have that kind of self control on my own? Sure. But I'm
         | realistic enough to know that sometimes, a little social
         | pressure goes a long way. Wanting to be the first person to hit
         | N miles for the month (or just not be embarrassingly far behind
         | the pack) is a very real motivating factor.
         | 
         | (But FWIW I only feel this way about running because it isn't
         | my favorite athletic activity. When I spend a day throwing down
         | 80+ miles on my bike, I don't use Strava or anything like that,
         | the ride is the reward. But I can't do an 80+ mile ride on a
         | weeknight after work for some quick cardio)
        
           | Wohlf wrote:
           | A little positive peer pressure can be a good thing, a gentle
           | reminder from my girlfriend that I wanted to eat better
           | before I eat some junk food can really help with willpower.
        
         | outside1234 wrote:
         | It probably depends on your personality.
         | 
         | I find it motivating to see other people running - just in the
         | sense that they are getting out there - but also in what they
         | did.
         | 
         | I sometimes go and do the same route they did and doing that
         | really motivates me because it is new ground and gives you that
         | "exploration" kick.
         | 
         | For me its not about bragging or competitiveness - just
         | solidarity and new ideas.
        
       | snegrus wrote:
       | When I feel sad or bored I know for sure that some hyper
       | energetic and happy dance trainer will improve my mood. Some
       | moves are too fast, but trying to catch up and move in sync is
       | worth the effort when you get it.
       | 
       | They can adjust the voice to background music volume ratio to
       | make it even better, but it's acceptable. The experience is
       | completely different on a >55" TV vs anything else, imagine that
       | the trainer seems real life size. Streaming on Airplay compatible
       | tv is supported with 14.5 and beta.
       | 
       | I really like it. I'm super excited for a new Apple TV because I
       | want to play audio through the homepods but it's ok.
       | 
       | Some improvements I would like to see across the system:
       | 
       | - ability to rewind
       | 
       | - history of workouts within the Fitness+ app, not normal app
       | 
       | - group workouts, now both of us has to start the same workout at
       | the same time, the phone is just muted in on the table while
       | dance in front of the TV
       | 
       | - some focus on making sure moves are done correctly, I would
       | love some intro videos where it takes 30 minutes to show, repeat
       | and help me (overall) understand some basic moves, some very
       | basic intro series
       | 
       | - overall more basic workouts or at a slower pace
       | 
       | - live classes
       | 
       | - muscle categories listed in a user friendly way, I would like
       | to combine 2 strengths workouts that focus on different
       | categories
        
         | outoftheabyss wrote:
         | I would add routines to that list. Right now they are just
         | isolated workouts that don't belong to a wider programme
        
         | admn2 wrote:
         | Not allowing Airplay on Fitness+ at launch was such a faux pas
         | on their part. Who wants to do a workout looking at their phone
         | when there's a big tv in front of you? Glad they offered a fix,
         | but wonder how many customers they lost initially.
        
           | yohannparis wrote:
           | Because they sell Apple TV that do not require your phone to
           | us Apple Fitness +
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | I'm guessing that it had to be a technical issue of some sort
           | that wasn't worth delaying the ship date. I mean, c'mon,
           | $80/year + a (minimum) $300 watch + (minimum) $400 device,
           | and you still can't play it on the big screen for lack of a
           | $200, four-year-old device? Even if you think Apple to be
           | greedy, surely one doesn't think they're _that_ greedy.
        
       | noarchy wrote:
       | So it appears that the only way to get Fitness+ with Apple One is
       | to go with the most expensive (Premier) option? That means you're
       | also getting Music, TV, Arcade, News+, and iCloud. It's awfully
       | presumptuous to think one would necessarily want all of those
       | things. They really need an a la carte, bundle option that gives
       | you a discount with multiple services.
        
       | elicash wrote:
       | Apple should consider other verticals for video, rather than the
       | tv shows on Apple TV Plus. For example, home improvement
       | projects. Gardening. Rather than trying to reinvent netflix they
       | should expand on what's been so great about Fitness+
       | 
       | That said, admittedly those things don't sell more watches.
        
       | pokstad wrote:
       | Is there a way to disable "Time to Walk" on Apple Watch? I don't
       | use or care for that feature and it takes up the entire face of
       | the watch when I'm trying to start a new workout. Shoving a
       | feature down your customers throat seems like a UX fail.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | kemayo wrote:
         | There's an option at the bottom of the Workout settings on the
         | watch to disable automatically adding the time-to-walk workouts
         | to the watch. I think if you delete the current one (by
         | swiping) and disable that setting, they won't be added again
         | unless you manually trigger it from the "add workout" button in
         | the Workouts app?
        
           | jdeibele wrote:
           | Thank you for posting this. I eventually figured out that I
           | had to hold and swipe to make the delete option show up. Just
           | swiping it started it.
        
       | minxomat wrote:
       | Still not usable in Germany. I don't get it, when will companies
       | realize there's a huge market for content in Germany (and
       | presumable other EU countries) even if it's not translated.
        
         | ulimn wrote:
         | Same in Switzerland. I don't even know why they released the
         | Apple One subscription without this.
        
         | leokennis wrote:
         | Yep. Especially Apple sucks at this. Is English fitness
         | instruction worse than <local language> instruction? Yes. Is it
         | better than nothing at all? Of course...
        
           | ska wrote:
           | Are there legal constraints on this? Some countries labeling
           | laws etc. make it hard-to-impossible to release English only.
        
             | xiphias2 wrote:
             | Usually user manuals have to be translated, but not the
             | content. Translating the UI would be quite cheaper for
             | Apple than making new films for example.
        
               | ska wrote:
               | This is what I'm wondering about - I'm not sure what the
               | threshold is for "this is too much of a pain in the ass,
               | not going to bother", but I don't know this space.
               | 
               | In general people who haven't done it seem to really
               | underestimate the work in releasing a product in
               | different countries. Especially with software, it seems
               | like you don't have to do "anything" but there can be a
               | lot of fiddly things even to figure out what the
               | requirements really are.
        
               | xiphias2 wrote:
               | Apple makes it really hard to buy some of its products
               | outside the US legally. M1 Macbook Pro with 16GB RAM was
               | not available in Costa Rica, so I tried to order it from
               | the US. All official shops cancelled my purchase, as
               | Apple forbids them to export. They didn't allow drop
               | shipping either. At the end I had to use EBay, which was
               | much harder (and more expensive) to do.
        
       | macintux wrote:
       | Active discussion underway of the other side of this coin,
       | Peloton disabling Apple Watch functionality:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26819577
        
       | freewilly1040 wrote:
       | Somewhat unrelated but it's crazy to me that in this time period
       | where antitrust is supposedly something the big companies are
       | afraid of, Apple is using such flagrantly anticompetitive tactics
       | to push their software offerings.
       | 
       | Abusing the Settings app to push free trials of subscription
       | services like Fitness+ alongside iOS updates is really
       | frustrating.
        
       | zomgwat wrote:
       | I tried Apple Fitness+ and I'm not a fan. I don't understand why
       | I need an Apple Watch. I have MacBooks, Apple TVs, iPhones and
       | iPads. I don't want a watch.
       | 
       | Also, Fitness+ doesn't offer programs (yet?). Programs work great
       | for busy lives because there's no thinking about what you're
       | going to do each day. I just follow the schedule, do the workout
       | and move on with my day.
        
         | anonuser123456 wrote:
         | >I don't understand why I need an Apple Watch.
         | 
         | I have a series 6. It is my favorite Apple product ever.
         | 
         | 1) UV index, temp at a glance.
         | 
         | 2) ECG monitor - Has done more for me than 4 holter monitor
         | tests.
         | 
         | 3) Can ditch my phone and still pay, call, access calendar,
         | maps.
         | 
         | 4) Seamless and fast charging.
         | 
         | 5) Track various interesting health parametrs (O2 during sleep,
         | heart rate during the day, activity levels etc). Syncs all of
         | those in a clean interface (Apple health).
         | 
         | 6) Tracks my chosen workout with literally just a touch and
         | swipe. Also tracks if or me incase I forget to touch and swipe.
         | 
         | From a health perspective it is freaking amazing.
        
           | zomgwat wrote:
           | All good points. I didn't articulate it well but I mostly
           | meant why do I need the watch to use Fitness+. If i do ever
           | get one it'll be for running.
        
         | hnrodey wrote:
         | I watch a Watch holdout for the first couple years. Now I've
         | had one since Series 3 and am extremely pleased with the
         | device. Integration with iPhone is seamless and makes the
         | interactions subtly easier.
         | 
         | I get it though when someone says "I don't understand". I would
         | tell you that it's similar to trying to tell someone they
         | should go to double monitors when they've only ever used a
         | single monitor and don't see any reasons to try a second.
         | 
         | Highly recommend.
        
         | uli31 wrote:
         | You really don't get the concept of a watch? You sure?
         | 
         | I used to lose my phone more whenever I went out drinking until
         | I got the watch. That's because I used my phone to tell the
         | time. So it was in-and-out of the pocket. Now, I keep my phone
         | in my bag and I haven't lost one in two years.
        
           | zomgwat wrote:
           | I get it. I see why people including my wife likes the Apple
           | Watch. I just don't want one. I guess I've reached device
           | capacity for now.
           | 
           | That's especially true when it comes to working out. I have a
           | small slice in the day to workout and I don't want to fiddle
           | with stuff.
           | 
           | It could be that I'm feeling residual frustration from
           | attempting to try Fitness+ on an iPad which I never figured
           | out. I just don't understand why I need a watch to view
           | workout videos. I guess that means I'm not the target market.
           | Thankfully there are good alternatives.
        
       | guymcgwire wrote:
       | Apple Fitness+ (specifically the 20 and 30 minute HIIT workouts)
       | have completely changed my life. I started in January and I've
       | lost 15 pounds so far. I sleep so much better at night (also
       | tracked by Apple Watch). I fall asleep within 10 minutes of
       | getting in bed and I (usually) sleep all the way through the
       | night now. The effects on my anxiety levels and sleep patterns
       | have caused it to become a personal obsession. I'm honestly a
       | little scared of missing a HIIT workout. I've tried to get
       | friends and family to do it, but there's still a lot of
       | resistance for some reason. But I think that Apple is tapping
       | into something huge. The iPhone is a toxic obsession. Fitness+ is
       | a healthy obsession. This is the version of Apple I want to
       | support and believe in.
        
       | subpixel wrote:
       | I have all the Insanity and P90X videos, and stream them on a TV
       | in the garage.
       | 
       | This lacks gamification, but there are other ways to get the
       | positive peer pressure (Strava, workout Slack channel, etc).
        
       | Someone1234 wrote:
       | People haven't really grasped yet that the future of fitness
       | isn't equipment it is ecosystems.
       | 
       | You look at something like Peloton and your natural instinct is
       | to compare it to other equipment manufacturers, but that's wrong.
       | Consumers aren't spending 50% more of Peloton because a Peloton
       | bike/tred is 50% better than their nearest competitor. People are
       | spending that money to be in the Peloton _ecosystem_. To work out
       | with friends in Peloton.
       | 
       | So I say to people that Apple is Peloton's biggest competitor,
       | and they look at me like I'm a moron. Because they see equipment
       | and I see ecosystems. I believe fitness will be the next "social
       | media" land rush, and most traditional equipment makers are
       | unprepared (they're naively copying Peloton on features without
       | _really_ grasping what Peloton is building).
       | 
       | PS - Phase 1: Social Media Fitness, Phase 2: Gamification of
       | Fitness (apps/games inc. achievements tied directly into
       | equipment, like the "iPhone" of fitness equipment).
        
         | Graffur wrote:
         | I am surprised they look at you like a moron. Myself and all my
         | friends have fitbits. The reason we all have and use fitbits is
         | because that is what we're all connected on. If one friend got
         | a functionally better but cheaper watch off Amazon they
         | wouldn't be able to join us in our group challenges and
         | comparisons. This has actually happened a few times but after a
         | while that person got what the group had.
         | 
         | That being said there are apps that bring this up a level and
         | let you connect multiple products and devices. If one of these
         | apps becomes popular then it's less dependent on what device
         | you own.
        
         | technofiend wrote:
         | >People haven't really grasped yet that the future of fitness
         | isn't equipment it is ecosystems.
         | 
         | You're right but I hate that future, to be honest. I don't
         | really want to buy a Garmin phone to talk to my Garmin watch so
         | I can buy into their ecosystem. Apple watches may be fantastic
         | but there are still better dedicated fitness watches out there
         | and frankly the idea of a watch dictating my cellphone choice
         | (as the Apple Watch does) makes me completely reject the idea
         | of buying that watch.
        
           | rstupek wrote:
           | I think the ecosystem being referred to isn't the device
           | ecosystem but the "social network" sharing ecosystem
        
             | newsclues wrote:
             | How long until device and social media networks are linked?
        
               | lancesells wrote:
               | They already are aren't they? Most social networks launch
               | on iOS only at the beginning.
        
             | technofiend wrote:
             | Oh, you're right. I see that now. Having said that Apple
             | isn't really big on cross-platform features either. I don't
             | see a Facetime Android client, for example, and have no
             | expectation they'd make Apple Fitness+ work on anything but
             | their own devices; after all the byline is "Apple Fitness+
             | ... powered by Apple Watch." And since the watch requires
             | their phone that's a big investment if you just want to
             | exercise with friends.
        
               | eric_h wrote:
               | > Having said that Apple isn't really big on cross-
               | platform features either.
               | 
               | While I generally agree with you, Apple is putting apple
               | tv+ on roku - it's not a stretch to suggest they would
               | use a similar strategy for fitness+:
               | 
               | https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/13/22381067/apple-tv-
               | plus-ro...
        
               | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
               | These sorts of things are probably going to appeal to
               | people who just want a bit of a sweat.
               | 
               | Everyone else is going to the gym because they don't want
               | to look at another screen, or they want to hang out with
               | other people, or they realise you can't learn to snatch
               | from YouTube. Etc.
               | 
               | Traditional gyms and activity aren't going anywhere.
        
               | skinnymuch wrote:
               | FaceTime was supposed to be open source or an open
               | protocol (I think the latter) once upon a time a decade
               | ago.
        
               | MBCook wrote:
               | My understanding of the story is Steve Jobs just decided
               | to say that when he announced it without checking with
               | the lawyers, and it probably ran into patent problems.
        
               | dagmx wrote:
               | Fitness+ already integrates with third party devices via
               | GymKit however.
        
         | mtberatwork wrote:
         | > Phase 1: Social Media Fitness, Phase 2: Gamification of
         | Fitness
         | 
         | Seems like Zwift is Peloton's biggest competitor then?
        
           | Someone1234 wrote:
           | It is definitely one to keep a close eye on. This whole land
           | rush is just getting started, but as it heats up if Zwift can
           | keep up growth they could benefit greatly (be it directly or
           | via a tech company buying them).
        
           | cglace wrote:
           | I really like zwift but I don't find it motivates me at all.
        
             | throwawaygh wrote:
             | My general impression is that zwift caters to the "serious
             | cyclist" crowd and peloton caters to the more typical
             | (upper middle class) consumer. It's a bit silly to spend
             | $3K (and space!) on a standing exercise bike when you
             | already have at least one bike in the $3K range and often a
             | second in the $10K+ range, both of which you'd probably
             | prefer riding on trainer over Peloton anyways.
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | Tonal and Zwift are also trying to build the same sort of
         | fitness ecosystems as Peleton. Tonal has a wall mounted display
         | for weight training with instructors. Zwift is designing their
         | own smart bike (and maybe a treadmill too). Too early to say if
         | they'll succeed.
        
         | clairity wrote:
         | it's not just ecosystem => network effects => winner take all.
         | apple is trying to skim the cream off the top with fitness+
         | like they did with music and itunes, but the market
         | characteristics are different here.
         | 
         | first, the market opportunity is much smaller. everyone listens
         | to music (and has a phone nowadays). that's a huge reachable
         | market. only the well-off will pay for fitness+, so you're
         | looking at <20% of everyone to start.
         | 
         | second, music was already in the transition from physical
         | (cd's) to digital (mp3's) to streaming (just waiting for high-
         | speed internet penetration). the fitness market is not in that
         | same transition. it's still constrained by the physical world,
         | no matter how 'social' it gets.
         | 
         | third, peloton's hardware is what makes the ecosystem, not the
         | other way around (which is apple's strategy). it creates a halo
         | of influence around the purchaser through price and product
         | that apple simply can't replicate with just an apple tv, a
         | watch, and a subscription. (i don't like peloton personally,
         | but the market dynamics here are recognizable)
         | 
         | i'd be surprised if fitness+ really takes off. it has narrow
         | appeal, a relatively high price, and little cachet or
         | differentiation. zooming out, apple's "plus" strategy overall
         | strays away from their strength in hardware-based consumer
         | products, and i'm skeptical they can differentiate enough to
         | retain that business long term, whereas homekit, carkit, and
         | the like couch very neatly into that strength, and likely
         | represents durable future expansion.
        
           | Jtsummers wrote:
           | > i'd be surprised if fitness+ really takes off. it has
           | narrow appeal, a relatively high price, and little cachet or
           | differentiation.
           | 
           | Fitness+ comes with one of the tiers of Apple One. That makes
           | it "free" to the user. Let's say you _only_ wanted Music,
           | TV+, and the storage (especially useful if you have multiple
           | iDevices in your family and you want cloud backup):
           | 
           | Music - $9.99 individual, or $14.99 family
           | 
           | TV+ - $4.99 (already at $20 for a family here)
           | 
           | 2TB Storage - $9.99 (now we're at $30)
           | 
           | So Fitness+, News+, and Arcade are "free" additions if you
           | get Apple One Premier. Of course, you need an Apple Watch to
           | use Fitness+ but you can use it with any garage sale
           | treadmill, bike, rowing machine, yoga mat, dumbbell set, etc.
           | 
           | And if you have the Apple Watch you've already been able to
           | drop things like Runkeeper and Strava for tracking running
           | and cycling.
        
             | batter wrote:
             | While they're investing in marketing / engineering and
             | they'll see user base grows, especially if products is free
             | or almost free. But at some point of time question will
             | come to revenue per user. And that will be completely
             | different problem.
        
               | Jtsummers wrote:
               | In this specific case, Fitness+ is relatively cheap to
               | produce (all the content is theirs except for the music,
               | but they already have a good relationship with music
               | producers) and cheap to distribute. They make 1-3 new
               | videos per instructor a week. I doubt it's costing them
               | much per user to distribute the content. However, the
               | Apple Watch is a nice profitable device for them and
               | Fitness+ requires Apple Watch. So for anyone who already
               | has the highest tier subscription (probably a decent
               | chunk of multi-iDevice families out there) they will find
               | themselves having Fitness+ but being unable to use it,
               | which creates one extra motivator to buy an Apple Watch.
               | 
               | That's where they end up making money anyways, 75% or so
               | of their revenue is from device sales (computers, phones,
               | tablets, watches, etc.). The services help to keep people
               | within that hardware ecosystem which gets people onto the
               | upgrade cycle or to consider a second or third Apple
               | device instead of just having one.
        
             | clairity wrote:
             | yah, but $30/mo literally puts it out of reach for 60+% of
             | households, and that's on top of buying an apple tv and an
             | apple watch for each user. that's just part of the
             | narrowness of its appeal.
             | 
             | apple has historically targeted the mass premium customer
             | segment, able to command a higher price and still entice
             | the broader public to buy. fitness+ (and apple one) has the
             | higher price but not the broader appeal. it's just not
             | differentiated enough.
             | 
             | a personal anecdote: i've had apple tv+ for free for the
             | past year and have watched it maybe a half dozen times. the
             | shows are so overproduced to be tone-deaf. they're now
             | trying to buy their way into the market via awards, so
             | we'll see if that turns into any compelling content and
             | moreover, more subscriptions.
        
               | skinnymuch wrote:
               | What are the tone deaf shows you're talking about? The
               | Morning Show for sure is one. The other 3 shows I've
               | watched have been good to great. Tone deaf is a very
               | common attribute of media any way.
        
               | clairity wrote:
               | i honestly can't remember offhand, it was that
               | unmemorable. maybe i should have said staid or sterile
               | rather than tone-deaf.
               | 
               | apple tv+ is just not robust or differentiated enough
               | from netflix, hbo, disney+, or anything else to be a
               | thing. disney+ goes all-in on family, while hbo goes all-
               | in on adult. netflix has the all-you-can-eat buffet model
               | where you'll be comforted to find something, anything, to
               | watch in a pinch. apple tv+ has nothing like that.
               | there's no brand or identity to form a memorable market
               | segment around.
        
             | freewilly1040 wrote:
             | Apple One lacks a compelling tentpole offering that most
             | people would want. TV+ is what, the 4th place streaming
             | subscription service? Apple music has 1/2 the market share
             | of Spotify. Storage, maybe, but 2TB is quite a lot and I
             | doubt most customers are buying that much.
        
               | ballenf wrote:
               | 2TB would be a rare purchase if the next tier down
               | weren't 1/10 the size.
        
               | vineyardmike wrote:
               | I suspect most people see Apple One as Apple Music + <the
               | other service they want> and they get the other 5 for
               | free.
        
               | ksec wrote:
               | Yes. That is why apart from Apple Music+ ( and iCloud ),
               | all the other services does not have a fix COGS to each
               | user but large one off cost.
        
               | skinnymuch wrote:
               | The storage goes from 200GB to 2 TB. 200 GB isn't hard to
               | use up in a family. Even 2 TB could be not enough for a
               | family that uses iCloud to host most of their photos and
               | videos. Apple's storage pricing is super lame for a
               | company that is so profitable. Really scraping at the
               | edges with the silly pricing.
        
         | dkrich wrote:
         | I don't think this is a controversial take. Most everyone
         | buying a Peloton is doing so because of the classes, the bike
         | is just a status symbol.
        
         | zozin wrote:
         | I don't really see Apple Fitness+ and Peloton as competitors.
         | First, the Peloton bike/equipment is both targeted at and only
         | really make sense for the 1%. Apple's hardware is a few hundred
         | bucks and has insane usability beyond Fitness+.
         | 
         | If you're speaking about just the apps and not hardware, again,
         | I don't think they're direct competitors. Peloton's app sans
         | Peloton hardware is basically just YouTube videos... There are
         | dozens of content producers that cater to everyone's style or
         | form of working out. Why pay Peloton $13/mo. just to get into
         | the ecosystem? An ecosystem that was designed from the ground-
         | up for people who make +$100K/yr., so the average American
         | probably doesn't have friends who are using Peloton's app.
         | Apple Fitness+ on the other-hand is designed to work in tandem
         | with your cheapish Apple Watch. The fusion between hardware and
         | software is where the magic happens. Peloton doesn't have that
         | unless you have a spare bedroom + $3,000 to spend on fitness
         | upfront.
        
         | TameAntelope wrote:
         | The other article on the front page must make you feel pretty
         | correct, then!
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26819577
        
         | anonymouse008 wrote:
         | > You look at something like Peloton and your natural instinct
         | is to compare it to other equipment manufacturers, but that's
         | wrong. Consumers aren't spending 50% more of Peloton because a
         | Peloton bike/tred is 50% better than their nearest competitor.
         | People are spending that money to be in the Peloton ecosystem.
         | To work out with friends in Peloton.
         | 
         | Did you just say 'Crossfit' without saying 'Crossfit'?
         | 
         | 'Gyms' without saying 'Gyms'?
         | 
         | I agree, these products realize that the physical movement via
         | machine is only one part of the greater whole... if these
         | companies can replicate the rest of the Gym/CF/WE experience,
         | there is a great win hiding in plain sight.
        
           | watwut wrote:
           | Gyms are about equipment. They are not social places. You
           | don't go hang around there. You don't talk to people there.
        
             | oarsinsync wrote:
             | Mine was. It had a pool table in the entrance too. I used
             | to go to the gym on a Saturday morning to sweat out the
             | hangover and chat shit with the others doing the same.
             | 
             | My friends was. It was a grotty thing in the basement. It
             | was primarily about the equipment. It was a lifting gym.
             | The folk that went there would hang out, help each other,
             | and talk plenty. They all had a common interest: lifting.
             | They also thought people like me in my gym above were
             | posers. That's fine too.
             | 
             | Not everyone uses a gym the same way. Not all gyms are the
             | same.
        
             | anonymouse008 wrote:
             | Ah, there are plenty of other ways to communicate than just
             | talking...
             | 
             | Perhaps this won't be replicated in the digital sphere, but
             | the identity behind "leader boards" and physical
             | aspirationals, which I believe these digital offerings
             | still provide, is an effective means to create community
             | and followings.
             | 
             | Heck a couple great friendships began in silence for
             | months, with strict social distancing before it was cool
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | That's true, and what makes this decision so foolish. By
         | raising the bar slightly they are inducing some people to
         | choose Fitness+.
         | 
         | Avoiding this is why Apple made the iPod compatible with
         | Windows.
         | 
         | Spotify is thriving on Apple platforms even though Apple has
         | had its own music products for longer than Spotify has been
         | around.
        
           | kitsunesoba wrote:
           | > Spotify is thriving on Apple platforms even though Apple
           | has had its own music products for longer than Spotify has
           | been around.
           | 
           | Some portion of Spotify's success, I'd argue, is that they
           | were the first successful entrant in the streaming space. The
           | product isn't particularly remarkable compared to other
           | options and in fact has some notable downsides (such as its
           | ever-changing-for-unclear-reasons UI) but it's what people
           | know and thus what people use.
           | 
           | It having a free ad-supported plan is also a massive factor,
           | but I suppose that would fall under "lowering the bar".
        
             | ksec wrote:
             | >The product isn't particularly remarkable compared to
             | other options
             | 
             | It is not that Spotify is exceptionally good, it is just
             | the others are comically bad.
        
         | michaelt wrote:
         | Tell me more about how 'working out with friends' works on
         | Peloton.
         | 
         | I've only tried online exercise classes once or twice, but
         | there hasn't been much social interaction - everyone's on mute,
         | and a few feet away from the screen and keyboard to have space
         | for their activities.
         | 
         | Or is it more the Strava-style 'log your exercise and get likes
         | and gamified motivation' asynchronous model?
        
           | matwood wrote:
           | The biggest 'social' part is that my friends and I end up
           | doing the same rides, and even though it's at different times
           | we end up competing and chasing each other. I had some goals
           | I thought were going to take months, but I've already blown
           | threw them b/c I could chase my friends ghost on his ride. If
           | I do a ride first, I text it out to everyone basically
           | throwing the down gauntlet.
           | 
           | There's also a talent component. I've done everything from
           | spin, to weight classes, to powerlifting for many years when
           | I was younger, and the Peloton trainers are very good. They
           | are good motivators, and they have taught me quite a few
           | warmup techniques I'm carrying to other areas as life gets
           | back to normal. YMMV.
        
           | Someone1234 wrote:
           | Here are some of the social features Peloton are building:
           | 
           | https://blog.onepeloton.com/peloton-community-features/
           | 
           | Leaderboard: Compete with friends/others.
           | 
           | Tags: Like groups/circles, you can be invited/invite on the
           | basis or compete with people in that tag.
           | 
           | High Fives: A "Like"
           | 
           | Following Friends: Essentially their fitness "stream" showing
           | what they've done/are doing.
           | 
           | Video Chatting: Chat with friends while you workout together.
           | 
           | Plus you'll get alerted when a friend is in a class,
           | encouraging you to join them.
           | 
           | https://blog.onepeloton.com/peloton-sessions/
           | 
           | Schedule workouts with friends, compare each other on the
           | leaderboard.
        
           | hcurtiss wrote:
           | I haven't used it, but my 10 year old daughter seems to enjoy
           | riding at the same time as her friend. Evidently, they share
           | a real time a mutual video chat. You both join the same class
           | and one of you finds the other in the list of participants
           | and request to chat.
        
         | LeSaucy wrote:
         | NordicTrack/iFit is a great example of equipment manufacturers
         | that just don't get it.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | I'm with sibling commenter, how so? We got a year of iFit
           | with the rowing machine, and considering that my wife uses it
           | several times a week on both rower and treadmill, I'll
           | probably renew it when the time comes in a few months. In the
           | case of the rower, it's nice in that it will adjust the
           | resistance automatically.
           | 
           | I mostly use Apple Fitness+ when on the rower, but iFit is
           | nice in that it is not restricted to studio workouts. There
           | is a far deeper library on iFit, and more variety. Outdoor
           | workouts, indoor if that's your thing, a "Time to Walk"
           | equivalent before Apple thought of it. I don't know if we'll
           | renew the sub or not, but I think iFit gets it just fine.
        
           | shanecleveland wrote:
           | How do you mean? Just curious because my wife, who always
           | hated running, is killing it with a NordicTrack treadmill and
           | iFit. She bought a shirt to support her favorite instructor,
           | she is part of some Facebook groups, and talks quite a bit
           | about the "experience" of each run.
           | 
           | I don't quite get it myself, so I am not advocating for one
           | or the other. But it seems to be working for her.
        
         | et-al wrote:
         | > Phase 1: Social Media Fitness, Phase 2: Gamification of
         | Fitness
         | 
         | We definitely saw this with Nike+ back in the late naughts [0].
         | Then Strava in the mid-teens, and now Peloton.
         | 
         | Competitive people want to compete with their friends, not just
         | against themselves.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike%2B
        
         | _the_inflator wrote:
         | I totally agree.
         | 
         | Also Corona: Outdoor sports is one of the few accepted social
         | activities, at least in some parts.
        
           | xbar wrote:
           | Surges coincide.
        
         | nnlsoccer wrote:
         | Phase 3: Connection of all Apple health fitness tracking/health
         | tracking data. As wearables and body data monitoring continue
         | to evolve and increase the number of bio markers/biometrics
         | measured, apple is poised to integrate these in a way that
         | Peloton and other fitness focused brands may or may not be.
        
           | ksec wrote:
           | Phase 4: Those aggregate data from Millions of users provides
           | additional insight that is only available from Apple. Health
           | Insurance with these Data ( and your consent to use it ) will
           | get better offers and Apple gets commissions. ( Services
           | Revenue )
        
             | nnlsoccer wrote:
             | Agreed. That is certainly the dark side of that path. From
             | a user/patient perspective, the interesting side of that
             | equation might be a world where those biometrics are
             | tracked and integrated (with your consent) with an EHR so
             | that your doctor can see continuous metrics in a way that
             | is actionable for clinical decision making.
        
       | flixic wrote:
       | Available in English-speaking countries only.
       | 
       | I'm from Lithuania, none of Apple services are localised to
       | Lithuanian (they are all in English), but I'm sure we'll have to
       | wait until service is localised to 10+ languages before we can
       | access it, unlocalised, in Lithuania.
        
         | varispeed wrote:
         | I don't get this strategy - surely if they continue to avoid
         | releasing products in English, people will have fewer chances
         | to interact with the language and learn. On the other hand if
         | they were permitted to just drop an English version they would
         | probably have never released the Lithuanian one.
        
       | dkrich wrote:
       | I feel like this is one case where Apple will steal share from
       | Peloton. Apple already has the hardware to integrate, and for
       | people who either aren't using Peloton or are just using the $14
       | a month service, switching costs are small. Right now Peloton has
       | branding behind it as the gold standard in this space, but Apple
       | is already viewed as a premium brand. I think Peloton invented a
       | category and others, maybe Apple will do it better.
        
       | blakesterz wrote:
       | I usually feel like Apple targets their products and
       | advertisements at a pretty young demographic. The TV ads feel
       | like they're all about 25 year olds with lots of money, friends
       | and free time.
       | 
       | This feels like it is solidly aimed at 'older' people, and by
       | older I mean not the same group that those TV ads are after.
       | 
       | "Workouts for Older Adults, trainers, and Time to Walk guest"...
       | and that guest is Jane Fonda.
        
         | hcurtiss wrote:
         | I agree. And at least as near as I can tell, with only a couple
         | weeks of using it, none of the workouts are particularly
         | rigorous. It definitely seems oriented toward the "never done
         | this before" or otherwise frail crowd.
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | I've used Fitness+ since release, and if you're not getting
           | the rigorous workout you desire, you're simply not working
           | hard enough. Because there's nothing holding me back from
           | drilling myself straight into the ground during rowing
           | intervals. OTOH, I can sit there and just cruise if I like,
           | with no one the wiser. Strength workouts: grab bigger
           | dumbbells. Etc, etc. The only workouts I can think of where
           | this strategy might not work are yoga and "mindful cool
           | down". And maybe the weightless core workouts, dunno.
        
       | 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
       | Is apple fitness+ still doing its bs of only letting you see the
       | workout on your phone? (or ipad or apple tv if you happen to have
       | those). They actually got me into a peloton membership, after
       | apple's marketing made me think it's a cool product, but since i
       | dont want to try to see it on my tiny phone I almost immediately
       | turned to alternatives.
        
         | Jtsummers wrote:
         | Yes and it's annoying. We got a TV that supports AirPlay for
         | the basement (which is also the gym) in anticipation of a long
         | term guest (MIL, didn't happen because of COVID travel
         | restrictions for her country) and without buying an Apple TV I
         | can't cast the classes to it outside the audio. If you're on a
         | rowing machine or treadmill or bike the iPad works well, but
         | for things like yoga or strength classes I'm not dropping $200
         | on something that would be only used (for now) for exercise
         | classes when Peloton (via my sister's subscription presently)
         | works fine over AirPlay to the TV. I've already spent $$$
         | furnishing the basement and basement bedroom for a visit that
         | never happened.
        
           | DenseComet wrote:
           | snegrus mentioned that this is fixed on iOS 14.5
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26822148
        
             | Jtsummers wrote:
             | Well that's fantastic news for me then. I missed that
             | detail in their comment earlier.
        
       | lifeisstillgood wrote:
       | So the future is the first successful "online app-enabled
       | celebrity Fitness DVD" - the Jane Fonda Workout.
       | 
       | It cannot be a Peloton tie in or something - that is like having
       | a concert that only fan club members can come to.
       | 
       | So ... something - independent - like Apple? Is Apple providing
       | the DVD here and someone else needs to record Jane?
        
       | melling wrote:
       | I'm a fan of Fitness+. My girlfriend and I do a 30 minute yoga in
       | the morning at least 5 days a week.
       | 
       | Keep telling myself I'm going to add a 10 minute core...
       | 
       | Thought gamification of fitness was silly at first. I appear to
       | be as susceptible as everyone else.
        
         | balls187 wrote:
         | > Thought gamification of fitness was silly at first. I appear
         | to be as susceptible as everyone else.
         | 
         | Same here.
         | 
         | I'm on my 12th straight week of closing my rings.
        
         | foobiter wrote:
         | I think there's some shame associated with gamification; like
         | if it works for you, somehow it makes you unintelligent... but
         | as long as you're aware of it don't lose sight of how you're
         | being manipulated then it can be a valuable tool just like
         | anything else.
        
       | hk1337 wrote:
       | As long as it syncs to Strava, it's good.
        
       | balls187 wrote:
       | I really like Apple Fitness+
       | 
       | It offers enough variety which is perfect to slot in as cross
       | training cardio to supplement my training.
       | 
       | I wouldn't get it on it's own; but as part of Apple One, I will
       | definitely use it.
        
       | varispeed wrote:
       | I would love to use such app but I don't trust where my data will
       | land and I also disagree with Apple anti-competitive behaviour
       | and practices of exploiting customers. That being said, I wonder
       | if someone is working on an open-source alternative to Apple
       | Watch and its fitness features? I would totally buy such product
       | if I could self-host the data.
        
         | blensor wrote:
         | It's not a fitness tracker but if you are looking for an open
         | source fitness app for VR then check out VRWorkout (disclaimer
         | I am the developer)
         | 
         | It's a full body fitness game with hand tracking (built with
         | GodotEngine). You can use the VRHealth Institute app to provide
         | biofeedback to the app and control the difficulty dynamically
         | if you have a heart rate sensor.
         | 
         | Data sharing is completely opt-in but you can also write your
         | own backend to store any data
         | 
         | https://vrworkout.at
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c-74EfrKAQ
        
       | boynamedsue wrote:
       | At $70 a year, I think Fitness+ is a steal.
       | 
       | I went from hating the treadmill to loving it because of Apple
       | Fitness+. Scott Carvin is the instructor I use the most and he's
       | amazing. I also use Anya for rower workouts and she's amazing
       | too.
       | 
       | I'm wondering if a startup will come along to turn this concept
       | into a creator-instructor marketplace that ties into Apple Watch,
       | etc.
        
         | ra7 wrote:
         | What does Fitness+ have that Nike Training Club, which is free,
         | doesn't?
         | 
         | Both of them let you workout with a trainer via video and track
         | the workout in the Activity app. It's just that for NTC you
         | need a separate app to start workouts, but the data is still
         | aggregated in the same Health app.
        
           | 411111111111111 wrote:
           | I just downloaded the nike app and couldn't find any sessions
           | for rowing, cycling etc. I don't think you can even compare
           | them, their target demographic is too different.
        
         | rubicon33 wrote:
         | Maybe you can help explain this transition from hating, to
         | loving, because of software. This concept is completely foreign
         | to me and I honestly struggle to understand why anyone signs up
         | for Fitness+ which - as far as I can tell - is basically a
         | glorified list of workout tapes just like we used to get on VHS
         | in the 80s.
         | 
         | I'm not trying to degrade anyone here, I am genuinely curious.
         | Is Apple+ more than that? Is there some magic sauce I'm
         | missing?
        
           | foogazi wrote:
           | To me the magic sauce is the Apple Watch
           | 
           | I bought an Echelon bike, but switched to the Apple Fitness
           | bundle when it came out
           | 
           | I use the same bike, it doesn't matter which one I use
           | because the watch tracks my heart rate/calories. It doesn't
           | track distance and I'm not racing anyone else , but I didn't
           | have any friends on Echelon either.
           | 
           | The watch is with me when I go walking, running, hiking. It
           | prompts me to move when I sit around a lot - gamifying my
           | workouts to keep the streak going, etc
        
           | wonnage wrote:
           | The actual workouts are the same stuff you can find for free
           | on Youtube.
           | 
           | There's some gamification where you can see your effort
           | relative to other users during a workout (the "burn bar").
           | The HIIT workouts (maybe others) come with modifications and
           | they also make a point of giving sign language instructions.
           | The on-screen display basically mirrors the watch workout
           | screen, but it's nice to have it there vs having to look at
           | your watch. Lastly, it's just nice to have a bunch of
           | workouts of consistent quality/intensity + clear instructions
           | and no ads.
           | 
           | Honestly all of these features just solve some minor
           | annoyances with home workouts. But it's hard to get motivated
           | to exercise, and every little friction counts. You don't have
           | to flip through YT to find the right video, the burn bar is
           | more motivating than a simple calorie count, and you can
           | follow the modifications if you get tired/are unable to
           | perform a movement, instead of just giving up.
           | 
           | Lastly, the cost itself can be motivational. I used to pay
           | $200 a month to go to a fancy gym, to lift weights available
           | at any gym. IMO it was worth it because the cost and nice
           | environment helped motivate me to go.
        
           | balls187 wrote:
           | First, it's the difference between streaming Netflix and
           | renting a VHS tape.
           | 
           | The experience is transformative. A simple touch interface to
           | find the exact workout you want, plus a recommendation
           | engine.
           | 
           | There is some window dressing on the workouts, showing your
           | metrics in real time on the screen, plus logging the data for
           | historical tracking purposes.
        
           | ericmay wrote:
           | Idk if it's necessarily more than that, though it has the
           | potential to be.
           | 
           | One thing I do like about it is the monitoring of the Apple
           | Watch with the fitness app. If you have an Apple TV for
           | example they have the ability to see in real time your heart
           | rate and cardio burn. Maybe down the line there are AI
           | instructors? Idk.
           | 
           | Compared to a VHS tape that's static.
        
           | boynamedsue wrote:
           | It was instructor-led workouts for me where I could also
           | measure my progress.
           | 
           | I've loathed working out. I'm not a gym sort of person. I
           | tried watching Netflix and YouTube, and listening to Spotify,
           | etc on the treadmill and always had poor results.
           | 
           | I use an iPad to watch the Fitness+ instruction and tying
           | that to my Watch is just what I need.
        
           | hbosch wrote:
           | >Maybe you can help explain this transition from hating, to
           | loving, because of software. This concept is completely
           | foreign to me and I honestly struggle to understand why
           | anyone signs up for Fitness+ which - as far as I can tell -
           | is basically a glorified list of workout tapes just like we
           | used to get on VHS in the 80s.
           | 
           | Kinda, but what's wrong with that? We didn't leave fitness
           | tapes behind because they were _bad_ , we left them behind
           | because we moved to streaming. Also, in general, it can be
           | hard to hold yourself truly accountable in the middle of hard
           | workout... I know, anecdotally, that I absolutely end up
           | pushing myself harder following an instructor (IRL,
           | livestream, or taped) than I would if I was totally on my
           | own. Not only the verbal motivation, but the reminders of
           | posture and so on. I also had a personal trainer in a gym for
           | a while, same deal... he helped me with my form, my diet, and
           | I could always dig a little deeper when he was pushing me
           | during a workout.
           | 
           | >Is Apple+ more than that? Is there some magic sauce I'm
           | missing?
           | 
           | It's how you use it. Without an Apple Watch, your vitals are
           | tracked and you can get an idea for how much impact your
           | workouts are having on your health. The Watch also gamefies
           | the whole thing with rings and awards... low extrinsic value,
           | sure, but people love it.
        
       | gadders wrote:
       | Unless they have Mark Rippetoe doing the strength workouts, it's
       | no sale.
        
         | wrycoder wrote:
         | Too fat for Apple these days, sadly. And not pc.
        
       | mark_l_watson wrote:
       | I got a free trial for updating my Apple Watch, and I like it. I
       | recently went through all my subscriptions, rented VPSs for
       | experiments, streaming entertainment, etc. I paired down what I
       | pay for every month, but I updated my family to Apple's new all
       | you can eat digital services. There is redundancy since we
       | subscribe to Google YouTube Music, but Apple's deal includes
       | arcade games (surprised that I am spending 1/2 hour a week on
       | them, but some are really fun), Fitness+, Apple News+, Apple TV+,
       | and tons of iCloud storage. I think the whole thing together is
       | an OK deal.
       | 
       | A neighbor gave me a boxed set of Qigong DVDs (which I digitized
       | for easy use) that I spend a lot of time on, but I have allocated
       | some for that time to Apple Fitness+ core strength lessons, and
       | their walking with interesting people material is pretty cool.
        
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