[HN Gopher] A New Standard for Mobile App Security
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       A New Standard for Mobile App Security
        
       Author : theafh
       Score  : 68 points
       Date   : 2021-04-15 13:08 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (security.googleblog.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (security.googleblog.com)
        
       | NateLawson wrote:
       | This is kind of a ridiculous announcement, but I appreciate what
       | they're trying to do. I find it ironic that they're trying to
       | improve security & privacy for app users, but then the first apps
       | they certify are almost exclusively VPNs, which are some of the
       | worst for user privacy.
       | 
       | VPN vendors collect all kinds of data on their users and are
       | sometimes even backed by intelligence agencies. Sure, use them to
       | get around region restrictions for something uncontroversial, but
       | don't send all your traffic through them and expect privacy.
       | 
       | I also see that they didn't tackle the hardest part of mobile app
       | security -- the backend services. Many apps scrape data from the
       | device and then push it to the service, where it is logged (for
       | how long?) and reused in who knows how many ways. The lack of
       | transparency around backend processing is the real problem for
       | app users.
       | 
       | How many users have been had their data exposed by an open S3
       | bucket or database versus by a vulnerability in the app code
       | itself?
        
       | miniyarov wrote:
       | The initiative called VPN Trust Initiative
       | (https://vpntrust.net/) inside the article has a broken Contact
       | Us form. It doesn't work :/
        
       | tessela wrote:
       | Obligatory: https://xkcd.com/927/
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | I wouldn't be surprised at all if this turns out to be a way of
       | locking out users and destroying right-to-repair/modify... all in
       | the name of "security".
        
         | wepple wrote:
         | What is it that suggests that might be the case?
        
           | eplanit wrote:
           | History.
        
           | kristofferR wrote:
           | https://developer.android.com/training/safetynet
           | 
           | When they say "security threats" they really mean "root
           | access".
        
           | notyourday wrote:
           | It may spell "security threats" but it reads "user control"
        
         | resfirestar wrote:
         | What? It's a self-certification checklist for apps (really the
         | cloud services behind the apps, it only has one section about
         | the app itself and one of the items is just "provide a privacy
         | policy"). Nothing to do with the OS or devices.
         | 
         | The document the post is about:
         | https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c6dbac1f8135a29c7fbb...
        
       | Saint_Genet wrote:
       | isn't this this just STIGs by another name?
        
       | z77dj3kl wrote:
       | The standard itself looks kind of good, honestly! Have a look at
       | 4.2 (pg 9):
       | 
       | https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c6dbac1f8135a29c7fbb...
       | 
       | I think tech as an industry has come quite a long way in the past
       | few years of clarifying (and hopefully adopting) what security
       | best practices is. This, OWASP, and other similar initiatives are
       | good: you can have a rough checklist of what's required to have a
       | roughly "secure" app, and what the common loopholes are. This is
       | not easy stuff.
       | 
       | I don't know what this means for the institutional/enterprise
       | side, whether certification will be meaningless, etc. But the
       | document itself seems relatively sensible to me!
        
         | ThrowawayR2 wrote:
         | Their certification requirements do seem solid but the
         | concerning thing about ioXt is that, if you look at the list of
         | certified devices / apps, there's a grand total of 3 pages
         | containing less than 50 entries. Given the large list of
         | members, it seems odd to have so few issued certifications.
        
       | georgiecasey wrote:
       | We don't need a security standard for apps from bluechip
       | companies, we need better vetting of apps uploaded by nobodies to
       | the app stores. And the Chrome plugin store while we're at it. I
       | always thought Google should have a score system for Android
       | developer accounts. You need to earn trust to have access to
       | sensitive Android APIs.
        
         | anaerobicover wrote:
         | What's your desired process for earning trust?
        
           | georgiecasey wrote:
           | New Google accounts start off with little trust. New apps
           | start off with little trust. Established apps should have
           | good trust along with Playstore verified developers. Android
           | is destroying a lot of great file manager apps with the new
           | scoped storage. These are great apps that have been in the
           | store for 5 years plus. Surely these can be trusted.
           | 
           | Of course, there'll be ways around this but it would stop a
           | lot of dodgy apps. Of course, this is a lot harder as it
           | sounds as you'd need all Android apps that want access to
           | sensitive APIs to interact with the Playstore API. But it's
           | better than Android just imposing systemwide security changes
           | that break a load of apps.
        
             | neolog wrote:
             | What if you want to make an app that doesn't work without a
             | trust feature?
             | 
             | Can you sell your trusted account?
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | I bet mandatory device updates isn't part of the list.
        
         | codethief wrote:
         | It actually is, see page 9:
         | https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c6dbac1f8135a29c7fbb...
        
       | system16 wrote:
       | > The Internet of Secure Things Alliance (ioXt) manages a
       | security compliance assessment program for connected devices.
       | ioXt has over 300 members across various industries, including
       | Google, Amazon, Facebook, T-Mobile, Comcast, Zigbee Alliance,
       | Z-Wave Alliance, Legrand, Resideo, Schneider Electric, and many
       | others.
       | 
       | Apple being noticeably absent from this list while Facebook is on
       | it speaks volumes.
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | _> Apple being noticeably absent from this list while Facebook
         | is on it speaks volumes._
         | 
         | My thoughts, exactly.
        
         | tolbish wrote:
         | In which way? In that this alliance deserves a lot more
         | skepticism (if Apple of all companies didn't join)? Or in that
         | Apple should be more supportive of securing open, non-Apple
         | platforms (if Facebook of all companies joined)?
        
         | sschueller wrote:
         | Funny how the S in ioXt stands for security...
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | Subterfuge has been a successful strategy. Take on the mantle
         | of something people are keen on, water it down to your
         | advantage and push it as being superior.
        
         | TYPE_FASTER wrote:
         | Looking at the details for a ioXt Certified Mobile Application
         | [0] vs. the details for an iOS app, at first glance the ioXt
         | specifications do not include privacy details like the iOS app
         | store does.
         | 
         | [0] - https://compliance.ioxtalliance.org/product/173
         | 
         | [1] - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/facebook/id284882215
        
         | tessela wrote:
         | Apple is a member of Zigbee Alliance / Connected Home over IP.
         | Also https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip#connected-
         | ho...
        
         | daenney wrote:
         | A lot of this seems to focus on certification of the cloud
         | things that you have to use with most IoT devices.
         | 
         | Since HomeKit operates locally, with the exception of remote
         | access to your home through a HomePod/Apple TV/iPad hub, could
         | that be why Apple hasn't shown an interest in this?
        
         | danpalmer wrote:
         | This is interesting to me because Apple pushes the security so
         | hard for connected devices. My understanding of the early
         | HomeKit tech was that it was in fact prohibitively secure, and
         | most low end manufacturers were unable to meet the security bar
         | at the price they were targeting.
         | 
         | This could be a bad indication about Apple, but I think I'd end
         | up interpreting this as a bad indication about ioXt. Big
         | consortiums like this often end up creating a lowest common
         | denominator, and Apple are known for not bowing to pressure to
         | engage with things like this where they believe they can do
         | better.
        
           | ChrisRR wrote:
           | It's more like Apple loves to push their own standard on
           | products and then hide them behind NDAs
           | 
           | The amount of hoops you had to jump through to make a MFi
           | bluetooth device was insane.
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _It 's more like Apple loves to push their own standard on
             | products_
             | 
             | People said the same thing about Apple and USB. iPod and
             | FireWire. MacBooks and Bluetooth. Apple not supporting HD-
             | DVD. Apple not adding Blu-Ray to SuperDrive. Apple and
             | DisplayPort. Apple when it released its first Airport.
             | 
             | It didnt matter that other companies were also using the
             | same standards and methods. People are hypersensitive to
             | what Apple both does and does not do.
        
           | er4hn wrote:
           | I think that is the parents point...
        
             | danpalmer wrote:
             | Yeah I wasn't sure which way it was leaning so thought I'd
             | add some more details to the discussion.
        
           | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-15 23:02 UTC)