[HN Gopher] Ten years of OP-1
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Ten years of OP-1
        
       Author : evo_9
       Score  : 90 points
       Date   : 2021-04-14 15:50 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (teenage.engineering)
 (TXT) w3m dump (teenage.engineering)
        
       | smoldesu wrote:
       | Teenage Engineering is a frustrating company. On the one hand,
       | they set out to create some of the most fun music equipment you
       | can own: their Pocket Operator line is awesome for beginners of
       | the hardware world, and they've consistently innovated with their
       | grooveboxes. The problem? They have absolutely no respect for
       | their pricing model. The OP-1 used to cost $800, which was
       | already a big ask for a microprocessor, OLED screen and plastic
       | enclosure. A great machine, but a hard to swallow price to be
       | sure. Once YouTubers started picking up on them, they chose to
       | increase the price (blaming it on a supply shortage, since we all
       | know how hard it is to find ARM cores and OLEDs /s), leaving the
       | OP-1 at a bewildering $1100 total.
       | 
       | If you, the reader, has $1100, pick up an Octatrack. Elektron is
       | one of the few companies that pushes the envelope of digital
       | sequencing and hardware production, and the Octatrack is the
       | pinnacle of their work. At $900-1000, you'll definitely get more
       | mileage out of it than an OP-1, and you don't have to support
       | Teenage Engineering's shitty pricing schema. Even at $600, you
       | can buy an Elektron Digitakt/Digitone, which will probably serve
       | you better in the long run.
        
         | gehsty wrote:
         | A music instrument is worth more than the sum of its
         | components? Maybe high pricing makes it a sustainable business?
        
         | brandonmenc wrote:
         | I've owned an OP-1, Octatrack, and Digitone at various points.
         | 
         | They aren't comparable to the OP-1, which is more of a quirky,
         | fun, expensive toy, and there's nothing else like it really. I
         | wasn't getting anything done with it, so I sold it. But, I can
         | definitely see how someone could have a lot of fun making songs
         | with it.
         | 
         | Is it worth a thousand bucks? Nowadays you're probably better
         | off spending half that on a Roland MC-101 or Novation Circuit
         | Tracks.
         | 
         | But I always kind of wish I never got rid of my OP-1 - it was
         | definitely the most fun I've had on a self-contained hardware
         | device - the tape interface for recording was just awesome.
         | 
         | But as for the price increases, I never understood why people
         | complain about this. They can charge whatever they want. This
         | not a necessary item.
         | 
         | > Elektron is one of the few companies that pushes the envelope
         | of digital sequencing
         | 
         | I think the Elektron sequencer workflow is overrated. Software
         | is better. I understand thinking the restrictions encourage
         | creativity (I don't personally subscribe to this idea), but the
         | sequencer isn't "pushing the envelope" compared to what you can
         | whip up in software.
         | 
         | So I guess I kind of think some of the Elektron machines are
         | also quirky, expensive toys.
        
         | musicalynejd wrote:
         | You don't understand their pricing because you don't understand
         | what they are actually selling. They don't sell musical
         | devices, they sell status symbols.
         | 
         | You buy an OP-1 to look cool, not to actually make music with
         | it. It's a bit like with the iPhone, but on a whole different
         | level.
         | 
         | Some buy fancy sneakers, others buy fancy pens and Moleskine,
         | others buy an OP-1.
         | 
         | And you can't have a cheap status symbol.
         | 
         | This is also why they look so clean and minimalistic, like a
         | MacBook, to the point of sacrificing ergonomy, since the
         | aesthetic is what they are selling, so they can't look gnarly,
         | black and full of ports and cables like an actual musical
         | device.
        
           | toiletfuneral wrote:
           | oh hell yeah, we're back to the era "no one does REAL work on
           | Macs / iPhones" but now its the OP-1
           | 
           | you seem mad bro
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | I'm fully aware that's why they sell them, and it's why I'm
           | not criticizing them for something they've obviously done
           | quite well.
        
           | dag11 wrote:
           | > black and full of ports and cables like an actual musical
           | device.
           | 
           | Why does an "actual music device" have to be a certain color?
           | I don't follow most of you argument, but especially that.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | devin wrote:
           | This is simply not true. I own a lot of synths, and the OP-1
           | is a very capable (and extremely portable) 4 track studio. I
           | sketch a lot of music on it, and it sees regular use in the
           | studio.
        
             | musicalynejd wrote:
             | Sure.
             | 
             | But that's not why most people buy it.
             | 
             | Just like most people don't buy a Rolex Submariner because
             | they regularly do deep dives in the ocean.
        
               | dag11 wrote:
               | Dive watches aren't for diving, divers use dive
               | computers. But lots of musicians seem to use OP-1s...
        
               | dmschulman wrote:
               | There will always be a collector class with any category
               | of designer product. Established manufacturers (Nike,
               | Monte Blanc, Omega) are aware of this and directly cater
               | to those customers. I don't think this was TE's intent
               | when they launched their synthesizer.
               | 
               | The OP-1 is an incredibly well designed product that
               | stands on its own as an instrument. The device has taken
               | on the life of a status symbol somewhat in 10 years, but
               | is that due to TE or due to the quality of the product?
               | Synthesizers have their own collector class after all,
               | but I don't think you can accuse TE of intentionally
               | catering to those folks when they made the OP-1. People
               | like good design for many reasons. The OP-1 has an
               | undeniable aesthetic quality but it's a versatile and
               | flexible (and portable) instrument under all that.
        
         | deeblering4 wrote:
         | Honestly the octatrack is just as old and overpriced. Elektron
         | has left it behind in terms of features like "overbridge" and
         | after learning the ins and outs of my I much prefer separate
         | sampler, sequencer and looper.
         | 
         | Don't get me wrong, the OT is an amazing box. I just think a
         | person can make much more interesting jams on a digitakt or
         | midel:samples and an rc505, for instance.
        
         | cush wrote:
         | Have you ever used an OP1? It was underpriced at $800
        
         | hbosch wrote:
         | Buy a Deluge. :-)
        
         | thenewwazoo wrote:
         | Sorry for the meta-discussion (which I know is against the
         | guidelines), but I'm finding it really hard to respond kindly
         | to your comment, given the overarching tone ("no respect",
         | "hard to swallow", sarcasm about parts, "shitty pricing"). I'd
         | love to engage with you on the merits of pricing for what the
         | market will bear, CoGS including software and craftsmanship,
         | etc, but I am not able. Perhaps that's my failing, but I'd like
         | to encourage you to be less acerbic in the future.
        
           | Marazan wrote:
           | I've no problem with a company pricing a product to be what
           | the market will bear.
           | 
           | However, Teenage Engineering claiming they were jacking the
           | price due to "supply issues" is just insulting.
        
             | mwfunk wrote:
             | I haven't heard about this. Were they busted lying about
             | supply chain issues as an excuse to raise prices? Their
             | stuff is pricey but cool, but if it's documented that they
             | lied about that, that would be hard to get past.
        
               | voxrumor wrote:
               | They have talked about it some, seemed reasonable. Also
               | understand why it would not be a popular decision though.
               | Think running a business, and understanding success can
               | be very temporary if you are not careful helps.
               | 
               | "We have had to face other costs than the actual
               | components' costs of course. The currency conversion,
               | inflation, sourcing of the new component, re-coding the
               | display, re-designing the mounting, new tools etc. are
               | just a few of the "why". When Teenage Engineering faced
               | the reality of the OP-1's future, there were only 2
               | choices: kill or save. We decided to save it. I
               | understand that the new price is a disappointment to many
               | of our fans. But I do hope some are happy that we did not
               | kill it."
               | 
               | https://www.gearnews.com/teenage-engineering-open-up-
               | about-t...
        
               | mwfunk wrote:
               | That seems unfortunate but reasonable. I don't begrudge
               | anyone making that choice, and I don't begrudge anyone
               | thinking their prices are too high (and I don't begrudge
               | anyone buying their stuff anyway because they think
               | something's cool). I was way more concerned about the
               | claim that they lied about it and were scamming their
               | customers somehow, but so far there's no evidence of
               | that.
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | > _I 'd love to engage with you on the merits of pricing for
           | what the market will bear_
           | 
           | Well, there's also the level of pricing and milking it that
           | poorer consumers will tolerate without hating the company, so
           | there's that...
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | If my tone comes off as "acerbic", I guess I'm a little
           | surprised. I love Teenage Engineering (and own a few Pocket
           | Operators too), but I gotta call them out on the pricing
           | issue here. When the price of the OP-1 did start to skyrocket
           | in 2012, Teenage Engineering said absolutely nothing, and
           | then discontinued it in 2013, sending the secondhand market
           | soaring again. Of course, their response is to put it back
           | into production at a higher cost, for more customers. You can
           | slice this any way you want, but there's not really an excuse
           | for an all-digital synth to increase in price like that. I
           | have no doubts that a simple redesign could bring the BOM
           | down to sub-$200, even in 2015. Failing that, they could have
           | taken the re-release as an opportunity to fix some of the
           | issues in the original model: give it a sensible charging
           | port, improve the microphone quality, or even improving the
           | sample transfer software. None of these issues were ever
           | addressed. The insult added to injury is the OP-Z, a
           | "successor" that was designed to be inferior to it's
           | predecessor, as not to cannibalize it's market.
           | 
           | Maybe I am hateful, but Teenage Engineering has definitely
           | had a fall from grace. Even their recent modular kits left a
           | bad taste in my mouth...
        
             | type0 wrote:
             | > Even their recent modular kits left a bad taste in my
             | mouth...
             | 
             | Their modular is ridiculous, I can't imagine what they were
             | thinking.
        
             | thenewwazoo wrote:
             | There are schools of (microeconomic) thought that would
             | encourage them to raise prices _even further_ in order to
             | reduce demand to match their supply capability. If the
             | second-hand market prices a good higher than the original
             | seller, that 's a very clear signal to increase the price.
             | At least that way the profits end up in the manufacturer's
             | pocket (which they can use to increase volume) instead of a
             | speculator's. That is all to say, their raising prices is
             | ethical, legal, and moral.
             | 
             | You seem to be seeing something nefarious in their
             | discontinuing the OP-1, and then re-continuing it at a
             | higher price. Even absent the above, it makes perfect sense
             | that they could be losing money on a product, and then re-
             | introduce it at a higher price so they stop losing money.
             | 
             | Now, should they have been losing money at the lower price
             | point? You talk a lot about CoGS, but that completely
             | neglects things like design and development time. The OP-1
             | is, by all accounts, _extremely_ well-designed and built.
             | Economies of scale let companies like Apple pick lower
             | margins because that R &D time is amortized over a _huge_
             | number of devices manufactured. Boutique operations can 't
             | do that.
             | 
             | All that still ignores squishier questions like choosing to
             | keep a price point in order to fund other projects (that
             | may never be built) with increasing margins over time, or
             | hell, I dunno, paying bigger bonuses to employees. Clearly
             | people are willing to pay it, and they're under no
             | obligation to price their goods according to any objective
             | thing at all. Maybe the CEO is a mystic and likes the
             | numerology of the new price better.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | brandonmenc wrote:
               | > You seem to be seeing something nefarious in their
               | discontinuing the OP-1, and then re-continuing it at a
               | higher price.
               | 
               | This is typical behavior of a certain large class of
               | musicians, particularly electronic ones.
               | 
               | The message boards are full of people complaining that
               | these companies charge "too much." They will also then
               | complain that Behringer sucks for "stealing" ideas and
               | pricing them affordably.
               | 
               | Meanwhile, it has never been cheaper to buy music
               | equipment and software. And there are tons of high
               | quality free software out there.
               | 
               | I would hesitate to enter into the business of selling
               | music software or hardware. It seems pretty thankless.
        
             | zokier wrote:
             | Why do you think the BOM cost should have any relation to
             | the selling price?
             | 
             | > You can slice this any way you want, but there's not
             | really an excuse for an all-digital synth to increase in
             | price like that
             | 
             | Adjusting to market bearing price seems like a good excuse
             | to me.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Whatever justifies it for you. For every extra dollar
               | they eke out of bougie hipster, they ostracize people
               | like me who would definitely buy one if it was $500 or
               | $600
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | zokier wrote:
               | Why do you feel entitled to be able to buy it at price
               | point that suits you?
        
               | monkmartinez wrote:
               | I didn't get a sense of entitlement. I see someone
               | frustrated with features for price, then calling it out
               | as non-sensical. I like when people do that frankly. Is
               | it judgey? You bet, and its ok to have an opinion on the
               | matter!
        
               | blairbeckwith wrote:
               | Companies are under no obligation to not ostracize
               | potential customers. Do you also think that luxury car
               | companies are shitty and ridiculous because they charge
               | more than cars that "do the same thing"?
        
               | monkmartinez wrote:
               | I do, but I am admittedly a small sample. A case can
               | certainly be made that luxury cars, in general, are not
               | very "good" cars in most metrics as by which the industry
               | measures what a "good" car should be. I think OP has a
               | valid point, if the synth Teenage is selling is inferior
               | and more expensive but sells because "status" and
               | signaling.
        
               | blairbeckwith wrote:
               | But they do sell, and Lamborghini or Porsche are not
               | under any obligation to make a cheap car so that everyone
               | who wants one can afford one, nor should they.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | jaxwerk wrote:
         | I bought my OP-1 at a steal for $600 two years back. I'd pay
         | $1200 for it today, maybe $1600.
         | 
         | There's a lot of more technically capable stand-alone gear that
         | can be had for less of course. My MPC Live is what my finished
         | (not good compared to others, I'm just an amateur making video
         | game soundtracks for kids I teach game dev to) songs ultimately
         | come out of, and the Octatrack is something I've really enjoyed
         | playing with. None of these are going to be something that
         | lives in my backpack and comes out in the park on a sunny day
         | when I've got that perfect boss battle intro sequence drop
         | popping into my head though. Size considerations aside, I can
         | slam down a decent prototype of a song that's actually
         | listenable in just a couple of minutes on the OP-1 before the
         | idea fades away, and have a blast doing it.
         | 
         | I think their pricing is sensible. The thing fills a niche no
         | other piece of gear I've found can. That seems worth paying
         | for.
        
           | mmastrac wrote:
           | I paid about the same... I am considering listing it. It's
           | just collecting dust unfortunately.
        
           | singingfish wrote:
           | I bought a used one a little while back - because I wanted to
           | try it out and I found one at a price where I knew I could
           | re-sell it easily. I fiddled around with it periodically, and
           | it was fun, and with my limited skills I could do something
           | that sounded reasonably musical with it. But - a. No proper
           | MIDI implementation and b. I found the synth engines very
           | frustrating.
           | 
           | On the other hand, using it as a way to add backing to my sax
           | playing, and record my sax onto the device was fun.
           | 
           | But I got rid of it, and bought a used organellem and plenty
           | of change left over (with which I might buy a proper
           | sequencer at some point, but maybe not).
           | 
           | I've currently got a Novation Circuit which I bought on the
           | same idea. Because I play a lot of acoustic music the circuit
           | seems definitely not for me, but again it's kind of fun and
           | has a nice shallow learning curve.
        
         | fedorareis wrote:
         | I don't feel that an Octatrack/Digitakt/Digitone is quite a
         | replacement for an OP-1. They may be better sequencers (I don't
         | have the relevant knowledge to claim whether or not they are),
         | but I've always gotten the impression from professional
         | musicians and composers that the appeal of the OP-1 is a
         | combination of form factor and portability. It has keys in a
         | piano layout which makes it easy to play on and it is in a
         | small enough size that you can throw it in your backpack when
         | traveling.
        
         | golergka wrote:
         | You can't determine a synth's value based on it's components,
         | or it's sounds. A PC with completely free plugins and VST will
         | be always be much more customisable and "powerful" than any
         | hardware device, and have better sound, too. That's not what
         | you're paying for.
         | 
         | You're paying for UX that creates the pit of success for your
         | music-making process.
         | 
         | You pay for the fact that you use knobs, not mouse -- although
         | you would be able to draw an infinitely detailed automation
         | with it. You pay for the limited choices you have, and where
         | these limitations lead you. You pay for the touch & feel. You
         | pay for purely subjective, aesthetic factors, like look and
         | smell -- because music-making is a completely subjective,
         | intuitive process and your psychological state is more
         | important for it having a Turing-complete LFO system.
         | 
         | I like OP-1 and I like Octatrack, but there's just no way you
         | could have any objective "measurement" for which one is better
         | of has better value -- because any value that these devices
         | have is subjective. If you want to decide which one to buy,
         | forget everything about specs, and just spend an hour or two
         | playing with them, feeling them with your hands while you make
         | music.
        
         | vernie wrote:
         | Maybe you are just cheap?
        
       | post_break wrote:
       | I want an OP1 so bad. I just can't afford it. I watch videos of
       | people making music with them on youtube for hours and get so
       | hooked. I was really worried this post was about its
       | discontinuation which will make them spike even more in price.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Buy a different groovebox then. The Novation Circuit is a
         | wonderfully capable and easy to use device, and it retails
         | secondhand for less than $200. For $50 you can have a PO-33
         | sampler, or for $700 you could have a Digitakt. Lots of options
         | for cheap grooveboxes out there!
        
         | dcarew wrote:
         | They discontinued it before... when they reintroduced it, it
         | was way more expensive.
        
           | dilyevsky wrote:
           | Originally it went for $700 i think, when they stopped
           | selling it people put theirs up for thousands
        
       | sneak wrote:
       | I would pay _another_ thousand to retrofit USB-C or even microUSB
       | onto my OP-1.
       | 
       | The choice of mini-USB, the RAZR charging port, in 2011, was a
       | bit baffling to me. I have to buy another cable each time I want
       | to charge and use it.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | >I have to buy another cable each time I want to charge and use
         | it.
         | 
         | Wouldn't it be easier to just keep the one cable you bought to
         | charge it? It's not like the cable depletes itself during the
         | charge forcing a new cable to be purchased per charge.
        
           | balls187 wrote:
           | Probably hyperbole, but I assume OP is implying they lose the
           | cable between charges due to infrequent use.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Are we implying the battery life is so good that one only
             | needs to be charged once every long often? Otherwise, how
             | cluttered are you to lose a cable every time in between
             | charges? Stick it in a drawer with all of the other ones.
             | Just seems like a really weak strawman
        
               | ashtonbaker wrote:
               | In fact, the battery life really is good enough to cause
               | this issue. Similar problem with Garmin watches and their
               | proprietary cables.
        
               | balls187 wrote:
               | I assumed OP implied they device was used very rarely.
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | I have literally bought mini-usb cables on 3 different
             | occasions to use my OP-1. I lose them all the time, as I
             | have about a thousand (no joke) USB cables and 3-5 mini-USB
             | among them.
             | 
             | I bought 20x mini-USB as my new mobile phone uses it now
             | and I didn't want to keep not finding them when I need
             | them.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | I understand that sucks, but that doesn't really sound
               | like the fault of the device to me. It really sounds like
               | one of those "you're holding it wrong" type of excuses.
        
               | avhon1 wrote:
               | Just wondering, what phone do you have that still uses
               | mini-usb?
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00XAF4J04
               | 
               | I've stopped putting SIM cards in my smartphones
               | entirely, but I still have one SIM I still need to
               | receive SMS on.
               | 
               | I'll eventually put it into a rpi shield/hat/whatever and
               | make an SMS to email bridge. Until then, this has amazing
               | battery life.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | I feel kind of like I'm being trolled with this one, but
               | it is kind of awesomely bad that I sort of want one.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | epse wrote:
               | I feel the same way. 32 GB of storage??
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | Dual SIM, too. You can even use it solely as a bluetooth
               | headset paired to a normal phone to look like Gordon
               | Gecko while on a call on your yacht if you want.
               | 
               | I bought two for less than the AppleCare+ on my iPhone 12
               | cost. (One as backup, as I can't imagine these are going
               | to be in production for much longer.)
        
               | balls187 wrote:
               | I have two mini-USB cables I keep around as the PS3
               | Dualshock 3 controller is mini-usb.
               | 
               | Otherwise I too would have lost them.
               | 
               | I typically don't keep older generation consoles around,
               | but the original launch PS3 was a marvel for its time
               | (despite being a relative flop compared to the Wii-360)
               | 
               | The original launch PS3 contained the hardware emotion
               | engine, so it had 100% backward compatibility with PS1
               | and PS2 games. Later revisions removed the PS2 hardware,
               | in favor of software emulation, and iirc, eventually
               | backwards compatibility was removed all together.
               | 
               | It also supported Super Audio CD format as well, and
               | before it was patched out, had the ability to dualboot
               | Linux.
        
               | novok wrote:
               | This is why I bought dollar store plastic boxes for my
               | cables and put them in specific categories. I have one
               | box for microUSB, one for USB-C, one for mini, one for
               | HDMI, etc. It's been great in reducing clutter and
               | finding a cable.
               | 
               | Cables create tangled messes in a way that most things do
               | not, and it's been great that my drawers are mostly free
               | of cables now.
        
         | yarcob wrote:
         | I'm no good with a soldering iron but I know a bunch of people
         | who would be very happy to replace that socket for a thousand
         | euros :)
        
         | tomtheelder wrote:
         | I would love USB-C (not micro though!), but the mini USB port
         | is still really common in music gear for whatever reason. My
         | audio interface, DAC for my other PC, midi keyboard, etc all
         | use mini USB. It's really weird.
        
           | colanderman wrote:
           | Strange, I've never seen mini USB on any audio gear. (Nor on
           | anything else I've owned since my T-Mobile G1 ten years ago.)
           | I've found "standard" connectors [1] to be much more common
           | (and welcome, due to their better sturdiness over micro).
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Standard_conne
           | cto...
        
         | deniska wrote:
         | Interestingly, I currently have devices which use mini-usb and
         | type c cables, but I have no use for micro-usb.
        
       | cush wrote:
       | I own an OP-1 and it is my absolute favourite piece of industrial
       | design. I don't know of a more complete single consumer
       | electronics product. It reminds me of an old digital alarm clock
       | radio - the ones with the fake wood paneling. It does all the
       | things it needs to perfectly and nothing more. Big, clicky,
       | robust buttons melded with the perfect software.
       | 
       | Cant believe it's 10 years old already.
        
       | solarkraft wrote:
       | In case you're wondering what it sounds like:
       | 
       | I quite like this album completely created using it:
       | https://professorkliq.bandcamp.com/album/28-days-with-the-op...
        
       | ExcavateGrandMa wrote:
       | Your website is pretty broken using HTML without JS :/
        
       | Lucasoato wrote:
       | Its presence in Swedish House Mafia - One video was a game
       | changer :)
        
       | leereeves wrote:
       | Slightly off-topic, but: why doesn't this site support zoom?
        
       | squarefoot wrote:
       | Beautiful, although I'd prefer a real keyboard, but the problem
       | is the price. With the same money I could purchase a number of
       | these Open Source and Open Hardware synths.
       | 
       | https://electrotechnique.cc/
       | 
       | Demos here:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCA2L7CeWSE
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jk79WchWcQ
        
         | singingfish wrote:
         | There is a tonne of potential in the rPi / Teensy space. Check
         | out the organelle https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle
        
       | scottious wrote:
       | I'm a musician but I honestly don't really understand this thing.
       | I even tried playing around with one for a while. It just didn't
       | click at all. You could have convinced me that it was a
       | children's toy and I probably would have believed you.
       | 
       | Obviously I'm missing something. I've seen some YouTube tutorials
       | but they all seem to produce the same kind of music and honestly
       | I don't find it super impressive.
       | 
       | Maybe it'll click one day
        
         | daniel_reetz wrote:
         | I have one and feel exactly the same way. It was a kind of
         | playful gamification of music, but that felt like a layer
         | between me and the music, instead of a source of inspiration.
         | 
         | Plenty of other gear has clicked for me. I should really sell
         | it to someone who will enjoy it.
        
       | Toutouxc wrote:
       | I use a Mac. I have a PlayStation AND a Switch, I can come up
       | with reasons to buy almost every gadget imaginable, but no matter
       | how lovely and enchanting the OP-1 is, EUR1121 is just too much
       | for something that wouldn't make me more money (as my job is not
       | in music production).
        
         | jh3 wrote:
         | They retain value. You could buy one used and sell it for more,
         | if not the same price you purchased it at. I think the worst
         | case is you'll essentially be renting it for $100-200 if you
         | really don't like it. This was my experience, anyway.
         | 
         | It's a great device even if your job isn't music production.
         | Easy to use, lots of fun, though I didn't enjoy the form
         | factor.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Indeed, usually hobbyists don't buy professional gear since
         | they are not professionals. Same goes for many other industries
         | too (TV production cameras too expensive for hobbyists and so
         | on).
         | 
         | OP-1 is a tad expensive even for professional gear, but it is
         | also a neat little machine. Elektron gear is maybe more
         | powerful, but it also costs more. Cheaper gear exists as well.
         | Up to each musician to decide what is too expensive for them in
         | the end.
        
           | Toutouxc wrote:
           | Do professionals use the OP-1? I can imagine a person doing
           | music production for a living not willing to do any
           | significant part of their job on a device the size of a
           | chocolate bar.
           | 
           | Who's the thing even for?
        
             | gnulinux wrote:
             | Of course! There are many synth artists out there. E.g.
             | Andrew Huang
             | 
             | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YHz6lsMcjDY
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | Andrew Huang is probably the worst example of a OP-1 user
               | when it comes to music production and not music
               | production teaching. AFAIK, Huang is more of a Youtube-
               | educator than musician.
        
               | epse wrote:
               | I don't know, he puts out really good music and videos at
               | an equally astonishing rate for both. They have lots and
               | lots of albums and while few of them are alike, I
               | thoroughly enjoy most of them.
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | > Do professionals use the OP-1?
             | 
             | Of course, you can find lots of "boutique" instruments
             | being used by a range of creators. I don't think there are
             | a lot of them only using a OP-1 for full tracks though,
             | although I have seen some live performances made with it
             | together with other instruments at the same time.
             | 
             | Actually this submission seems to be about a few pages, one
             | of them being "made on OP-1" where you can see just that,
             | artists using the OP-1 in different scenarios: https://teen
             | age.engineering/products/op-1/anniversary/made-o...
             | 
             | Edit: one specific example: Diplo claims the OP-1 is one of
             | the ten "essential" items he owns, has to count for
             | something at least :)
             | 
             | > not willing to do any significant part of their job on a
             | device the size of a chocolate bar
             | 
             | Heh, tons of people fiddle with modular synths and I can
             | imagine that being even worse sizes (or "smaller" rather).
        
             | avhon1 wrote:
             | Sure, Dan Deacon comes to mind. Most of the instruments he
             | uses in his performances are smaller than a computer
             | keyboard.
             | 
             | Here's a picture he posted of his gear:
             | 
             | https://twitter.com/ebaynetflix/status/442078506655023104/p
             | h...
             | 
             | In his NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert, you can see an OP-1 on
             | the near-right of his table.
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heFRwLfjVXI
             | 
             | edit: I found a website which catalogs musicians and the
             | equipment they use. It lists 190 users of the OP-1.
             | 
             | https://equipboard.com/items/teenage-engineering-
             | op-1-portab...
        
               | luma wrote:
               | I've never heard of Dan Deacon but I clicked the NPR set
               | you linked above and man - what a treat! Thanks for
               | sharing, friend!
        
               | avhon1 wrote:
               | You're welcome! Dan Deacon's music is fun, and I've heard
               | that his concerts are a blast.
               | 
               | My favorite online presentation of his music is the
               | collaborative video made by Adult Swim for the song "When
               | I was Done Dying".
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuJqUvBj4rE
        
               | agentwiggles wrote:
               | Thanks for sharing, that was awesome.
        
             | romwell wrote:
             | Yes, professionals use OP-1.
             | 
             | It's one of Jean-Michel Jarre's favorite synths[1].
             | 
             | JM Jarre is one of the godfathers of electronic music. You
             | probably heard Oxygene part IV some time in your life[2].
             | 
             | [1]https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2012/05/jarre-
             | synth
             | 
             | [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSIMVnPA994
        
             | cole-k wrote:
             | Spotted Portugal. The Man using it here
             | https://youtu.be/fSVwJyxeVYI
             | 
             | EDIT: turns out I'm response number 1000 - read someone
             | else's comment.
        
           | jabroni_salad wrote:
           | The novation launchpad is in pretty much every studio and
           | it's only $400 or so. Teenage Engineering makes some really
           | cool stuff and they charge boutique prices for it.
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | > The novation launchpad is in pretty much every studio
             | 
             | > it's only $400 or so
             | 
             | Sounds like you answered your own question :)
             | 
             | TE sure make some expensive gear, but they also make cheap
             | gear, checkout the Pocket Operators. They are deceivingly
             | good for the price (and aesthetics).
             | 
             | The OP-1 does have it's use case though, and it can
             | definitely been seen in the wild, although cheaper gear can
             | of course be even more popular.
        
           | kazen44 wrote:
           | do you know any good hardware for hobbyists to get started?
        
             | semi-extrinsic wrote:
             | Modal's CRAFTsynth and a cheap USB MIDI keyboard. Together
             | with an OTG adapter for your phone/tablet, Modal's app and
             | a USB hub, it's a really fun and cheap setup to play with.
             | It is more finicky to control than more expensive synths,
             | but the range of sounds possible and the quality of those
             | sounds is downright astonishing.
        
             | intrasight wrote:
             | Axoloti Core comes to mind
             | 
             | http://www.axoloti.com
             | 
             | http://www.axoloti.com/examples/
        
             | romwell wrote:
             | There's just so many!
             | 
             | Korg Mini/Monologue and Volcas, any Behringer analog stuff,
             | Arturia Mini/Micro Brute/Freak, Roland Boutique, Yamaha
             | Reface CS/DX, Modal Electronics Skulpt, Waldorf Rocket....
             | 
             | And Teenage Engineering has a more affordable OP-Z, and not
             | to mention their Pocket Operators that are wonderful
             | machines for $60 or so (I use PO-12 as a drum sequencer for
             | jamming).
             | 
             | And that's not even going into the old/used gear market. I
             | got a Soviet analog polysynth for under $500 off Reverb
             | last week. However, I feel like getting started, the newer
             | stuff is both cheaper and better. We are living in the
             | synthesizer renaissance era.
             | 
             | If I were to pick just ONE synth to recommend, it would be
             | Korg Monologue. It's a masterpiece with a lot of depth, but
             | simple to get started on, and super hands-on. For other
             | recommendations, see articles like [1].
             | 
             | [1] https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-best-cheap-
             | synthesizers
        
             | coldpie wrote:
             | Synthstrom Deluge (or any good DAW on the home computer you
             | already have if you don't actually care about hardware).
        
             | fit2rule wrote:
             | Zynthian: http://zynthian.org/
             | 
             | 1010Music Blackbox: http://1010music.com/
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | Stock up on Behringer gear. Haters will call you everything
             | from cheap to anti-semetic, but their synths hold up just
             | as good as some of the biggest contenders on the market.
        
             | TheMagicHorsey wrote:
             | Roland MC101, Roland MV1, Elektron Model Samples, Elektron
             | Digitakt, Novation Circuit, Ableton Push 2 + Ableton Live,
             | Roland SP404 series, Fruity Loops software, Ableton Live
             | software.
        
             | tom-thistime wrote:
             | Sure, iPad and Garageband.
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | Novation Circuit is a great starting point for electronic
             | music. Just released a new version too. Step up from that
             | would maybe be a Digitakt (from before mentioned Elektron),
             | basically Circuit but even more powerful in probably every
             | way. If you have the money to spend, go for a Octatrack.
        
         | 99_00 wrote:
         | I don't know anything about OP-1, but if it's been for sale for
         | 10 years then I would expect it to have high resale value. In
         | which case you can sell it at some point and get some of the
         | EUR1121 back.
         | 
         | Seems closer to a musical instrument than a gadget.
         | 
         | PlayStation and Switch and almost every other gadget imaginable
         | will drop in value much more quickly than OP-1.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Grab a Novation Circuit, sounds like the perfect musical gadget
         | for you.
        
         | intrasight wrote:
         | Also, for that much cash, I'd expect something bigger
         | (therefore better interaction unless you have tiny hands) and
         | more robust physically.
        
           | tomtheelder wrote:
           | The size is arguably the OP-1's "killer feature." It's
           | closest competitors in terms of capability (meaning music-
           | specific devices, not like an iPad or something) are all
           | _way_ bigger and less portable. It's also one of the most
           | solidly built pieces of tech I've handled.
        
         | 2ndseq wrote:
         | Buy the OP-1 now and sell it 5 years later and you'll find the
         | cost of ownership to be quite negligible.
        
           | argvargc wrote:
           | Works similarly for Apple laptops (but maybe stick to 2-3
           | years in that case). Even if you only get half price for it,
           | it's still owning an Apple laptop... for half price. (And
           | keep the box, they can be worth hundreds in terms of total
           | resale price difference boxed/unboxed.)
        
         | _joel wrote:
         | This, it's overpriced imho. I'm sure it was a lot cheaper at
         | launch.
        
           | avhon1 wrote:
           | At $875 in 2013, it was somewhat cheaper, but not much.
           | 
           | https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B00CXSJUZS
        
       | diimdeep wrote:
       | 5.54 MB, 1920 x 1080, .gif - :(
       | 
       | `ffmpeg -i 6069b7c2057597000422abc7_original.gif -c:v libx264
       | -crf 30 -pix_fmt yuv420p output.mp4`
       | 
       | 791 KB - :)
        
         | honkycat wrote:
         | I once wrote a social media website and one optimization we had
         | is we would take gifs, mark them for processing, have a celery
         | task queue run this command, and replace the gif with a mp4.
         | 
         | Worked wonders. A few years later gifycat exploded and we were
         | all kicking ourselves xD
        
       | gorgoiler wrote:
       | The UI design on the OP-1 has to be up there with any number of
       | great moments in industrial design.
       | 
       | The decision to remove the Rhodes piano sample pack from the
       | default firmware, including for anyone who upgraded, has to be up
       | there with one of the worst decisions in product management of
       | all time.
       | 
       | Also, the disparity between models with clickable control knobs
       | and unclickable knobs to this day makes me feel deeply
       | uncomfortable.
       | 
       | May we find it in our hearts to forgive. If it weren't for their
       | genius we wouldn't even have noticed these minuscule flaws. Happy
       | Birthday :)
        
         | ljm wrote:
         | I splashed out for an OP-1 but I bought it from Amazon rather
         | than straight from Teenage Engineering. It was still sold under
         | their store name, it seemed.
         | 
         | The best PS1000 I've ever wasted, and kept the box for, just in
         | case. It's a beautiful bit of kit (and it has the clicky
         | controls) but I've still not become proficient enough to do
         | anything but treat it as a toy. One day... _one day_... I 'll
         | make something practical using it.
         | 
         | Suffice to say, this is not the next Marc Rebillet speaking.
        
       | agloeregrets wrote:
       | This page is nuts:
       | https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1/anniversary/made-o...
       | 
       | The crazy part about it is that they only really mention the bits
       | that show the OP1 in a primary means, you can find every case of
       | a modern musical team making something and find an OP-1
       | somewhere. Taylor Swift? Easy.
       | 
       | Despite the clear flaws and price, the OP-1 just does something
       | for creativity.
       | 
       | Also: This is not seen in the list as they picked the cover they
       | did instead, but you get to see the OP-1 used in force here by
       | Chvrches:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haunJARHPm4&ab_channel=NPRMu...
       | After seeing what's going on in that you begin to hear where the
       | OP-1 is used by them in creation of the album.
        
       | tenaciousDaniel wrote:
       | I randomly came across the OP-1 on Youtube a few months ago and
       | was blown away. Keep in mind that I know next to nothing about
       | music, so I don't know how the OP-1 compares against other tools
       | of its kind. But still, it seemed like an incredibly cool gadget
       | and made me want to experiment with making digital music.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Teenage Engineering also makes a little device called the
         | PO-33, which gives you the sampling capability of the OP-1 in a
         | much smaller (and much cheaper) form factor. Check it out if
         | this stuff interests you.
        
         | okprod wrote:
         | Same, I haven't touched playing music in maybe 20 years but the
         | OP-1 and their pocket operators are really fun just to mess
         | around with.
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | Two or three connected Volcas are a great start into making
           | music with hardware as well, so much fun.
        
         | TheMagicHorsey wrote:
         | Roland MV-1 is 100 times better.
        
           | tomtheelder wrote:
           | I wouldn't even say they are particularly comparable.
           | 
           | I have an OP-1 and the killer features for me are _extreme_
           | portability, like even more than my laptop, and the best
           | battery life of any device I have ever owned. I have it with
           | me at almost all times, and I can bust it out and start
           | playing basically whenever. I use it at the beach, on hikes,
           | in cafes, wherever. There's no way I'd be lugging an MV-1
           | around with me in those circumstances.
           | 
           | I also do like that the OP-1 forces a "keep moving" workflow
           | with it's stripped down synth engines and 4 track recorder.
           | People criticize that, but if I wanted a device with tons of
           | tracks and unlimited sounds I would just use my laptop.
        
           | tenaciousDaniel wrote:
           | This is the kind of info I'm interested in. It's hard to know
           | how it compares from my POV because the whole digital music
           | world seems overwhelming and I wouldn't even know where to
           | begin. Thanks!
        
           | jeffdubin wrote:
           | The Roland MV-1 could be an intuitive, creative, flexible
           | device, but a 16x2 LCD? How does that compare against the
           | OP-1's beautiful, animated OLED display?
        
             | agallant wrote:
             | They recently updated it to allow you to use an iOS or
             | Android device as an external display: https://www.roland.c
             | om/us/support/knowledge_base/36005866483...
             | 
             | Clunkier than a device with a proper screen, but the same
             | approach the OP-Z uses (though I think it can use bluetooth
             | to connect instead of a cable).
        
               | JoeyJoJoJr wrote:
               | Whoah this looks awesome. The sequence arrangement looks
               | especially cool. I love the OP-Z, but it's sound engine
               | is limiting and it's tricky to create full arrangements.
               | I might have to take a closer look at the MV-1.
        
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