[HN Gopher] Our plans for PeerTube v4
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Our plans for PeerTube v4
        
       Author : rapnie
       Score  : 213 points
       Date   : 2021-04-14 13:59 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (joinpeertube.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (joinpeertube.org)
        
       | rijoja wrote:
       | Would it be possible to set up some form of CDN. I.e. a service
       | where you could submit torrent links so that "peertubers" could
       | pool their resources somehow, or if you would like to support
       | certain user by making sure that they get the bandwidth?
       | 
       | So I am thinking of nodes that wouldn't actually host the
       | websites but rather only would accept bittorrent URIs and then
       | seeding them. To make sure that the ecosystem doesn't fail.
       | 
       | What would the economics behind this look like? So in short what
       | server providers provide the best deal for just bandwidth. I
       | suppose that this mostly would require bandwidth. The second
       | priority would be storage space of course.
       | 
       | So what seems to be a potential problem with peertube is that if
       | you put up a node and then if you get popular you might run into
       | a bandwidth cap with your VPS. The average user probably wouldn't
       | be interested or have the know how to do this, but I believe it
       | would suffice that if there is a certain percentage of people who
       | have interest in keeping peertube online it might be doable.
        
       | Jukg7e3AFyskdj wrote:
       | A similar project https://github.com/VeemsHQ/veems
        
         | remirk wrote:
         | That project doesn't do federation, according to the issue
         | tracker. Federation is the thing that makes PeerTube so
         | special.
        
           | riffic wrote:
           | the ActivityPub protocol is PeerTube's special sauce,
           | allowing interoperability with many other projects in the
           | ecosystem.
           | 
           | https://github.com/BasixKOR/awesome-activitypub#services
           | 
           | edit: a comment about PeerTube itself, be sure to check out
           | probably its most interesting installation (TILvids), by
           | which interesting means you'll be watching a lot of their
           | content for the edutainment:
           | 
           | https://tilvids.com/
        
       | rosmax_1337 wrote:
       | I am very hopeful for Peertube and their project, since I'm
       | currently partaking in hosting a large video website for
       | otherwise content too controversial for mainstream platforms like
       | Youtube. (Political content if you were wondering, but I won't
       | indulge what kind)
       | 
       | This takes back control to creators in such a way that
       | essentially only domain registrars will be able to dictate what
       | content may stay alive on the internet. (And naturally that each
       | to their own get to federate to their own liking) At the moment
       | domain registrars have been staying on what is IMO the correct
       | stance of content allowance, requiring more or less police
       | warrants to take down content. In fact I'm hopeful enough for
       | this project that I've considered spending some time to get stuck
       | in the development enough that I could even contribute pull
       | requests or helpful issues to the tracker.
       | 
       | I would like to see a world instead where all channels on Youtube
       | were their own "Peertubes" instead. Youtube/Google have really
       | let consumers and creators down as it is right now, which in a
       | way is natural, since they only really have allegiance to their
       | sponsors and advertisers.
        
         | vangelis wrote:
         | One of the first instances I stumbled upon was this guy. Your
         | mileage may vary.
         | 
         | https://videos.martinezperspective.org/videos/trending?a-sta...
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | If good-content people don't use peertube, then only bad-
           | content people will use peertube.
           | 
           | You don't need to browse all the instances, you can stick to
           | ones recommended by curators you trust.
           | 
           | Joinpeertube should do better about how it promotes instances
           | for newbies.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | colordrops wrote:
         | And if they start taking down domains without due process,
         | parallel DNS systems will arise.
        
           | hossbeast wrote:
           | Handshake, for example.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | > only domain registrars will be able to dictate what content
         | may stay alive on the internet
         | 
         | Can't/doesn't PeerTube work with IP-addresses directly?
        
         | ralusek wrote:
         | > I won't indulge what kind
         | 
         | There's only one kind considered too controversial for
         | mainstream.
        
           | anoncake wrote:
           | Conservative-Libertarian Anarcho-Marxist Fascism?
        
             | varispeed wrote:
             | These days as long as you promise financial benefits for
             | about 10-30% of population, anything goes. That's why
             | you've got so many populist parties around Europe winning
             | elections. People don't care much as long as they get paid,
             | can buy food, pay rent, and spend rest of the day browsing
             | internet or getting drunk in front of Netflix.
        
             | marricks wrote:
             | The only true popular front! /s
        
               | extradesgo wrote:
               | If you're intending to be sarcastic, you probably mean
               | _united_ front.
        
               | marricks wrote:
               | Looking at the definition I see united front actually
               | fits the idea better! I did mean to be sarcastic and
               | wrong though.
        
               | extradesgo wrote:
               | Ha!
               | 
               | Blending of conflicting ideologies implies compromise or
               | trade-off, which would be a popular front.
               | 
               | In a united front, the groups do not merge or compromise.
               | Ideologies and ultimate intentions remain pure, and the
               | groups only collaborate in the name of overlapping
               | interests.
        
           | JeremyBanks wrote:
           | Coordination of armed insurrection against the United States?
           | 
           | Accusations of Democratic pedophile rings to distract from
           | the known Republican pedophiles in Congress?
           | 
           | Lies about the election rigging to justify overtly racist
           | voter suppression?
        
             | ralusek wrote:
             | Depends on who's doing it.
             | 
             | > Coordination of armed insurrection against the United
             | States?
             | 
             | Coordinating burning down Minneapolis police station is
             | okay. Bombing Portland Federal Courthouse is okay. I'm
             | afraid you haven't quite captured it yet, but close.
             | 
             | > Lies about the election rigging to justify overtly racist
             | voter suppression?
             | 
             | No, speaking for 4 years about Russian collusion rigging
             | the election was allowed on mainstream platforms.
             | 
             | I'm afraid you'll still need to be more specific.
        
           | marricks wrote:
           | I mean, this comment could give you some clues [to what their
           | leanings are and what content could be hosted*]:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26610522
           | 
           | *Added context since parent was flagged
        
             | stirfish wrote:
             | >For all I've seen "non-white non-male" is generally given
             | priority in all kinds of areas, certainly in start-up
             | interest. It's considered "hip" to associate with these
             | "non-white non-male" groups, irregardless of their actual
             | performance in whatever area they were prioritized. (To a
             | certain extent at least, they can't be completely
             | nonperforming) Being able to show that you have included
             | these groups in whatever way your organization works, gives
             | you advantages in press situations foremost, but also in
             | other ways such as meeting arbitrary quotas set by higher-
             | ups and HR dept.s in your organization.
             | 
             | I'm guessing...videos leaked from inside factory farms.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | goodpoint wrote:
               | Guess again:
               | 
               | > 1) Non-white non-males are given less ability to grow
               | in the "STEM/Entrepreneurship" fields as students and/or
               | children by society.
               | 
               | > 2) White men are able to outperform those other groups
               | by some inherent quality.
               | 
               | > Nevertheless, 1) seems to be partially disproved
               | 
               | Unless I misread, the claim that is being made here is
               | "white males are inherently superior"
        
               | raarts wrote:
               | To me it's more likely due to not being able to see
               | reality is more nuanced than 2 options.
        
               | marricks wrote:
               | That was my take!
               | 
               | I think stirfish was being sarcastic about factory farms
               | and probably reached the same (scary) conclusion.
        
           | raarts wrote:
           | Which one are you referring to? Because I can think of a few.
        
           | zaptidizap wrote:
           | You would be surpriced
        
         | camjohnson26 wrote:
         | I got to see this first hand recently. Tesla has a rabid fan
         | base that try to take down any negative information. Somebody
         | posted a video on YouTube criticizing Tesla's full self driving
         | system and using short clips from other channels that are
         | clearly fair use. Users spammed DMCA takedown requests and
         | YouTube removed the video. Other users published it to Vimeo,
         | Veoh, and a few other sites but those all got taken down as
         | well, basically killing the video's spread. The only ones still
         | up are PeerTube and a split version, although I'm not sure if
         | it would disappear if that host chooses to remove it.
         | 
         | It just surprised me how effective this method of censorship
         | was and I wonder how often it happens with more important
         | topics.
         | 
         | Context:
         | https://twitter.com/BS__Exposed/status/1321535914036748288?s...
         | https://twitter.com/icapulet/status/1375232839415906304?s=20
         | https://twitter.com/FinanceLancelot/status/13752898727562731...
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | sschueller wrote:
           | Well, I posted a copy on my PeerTube instance and without a
           | court order it ain't getting deleted.
        
             | ruph123 wrote:
             | Do you care to share a link then?
        
               | sschueller wrote:
               | https://troll.tv/videos/watch/54bc7bd0-8691-4359-aa7d-dc5
               | 148...
        
               | gabythenerd wrote:
               | Thanks for hosting it. The video is very well done and
               | rises valid points, but it's going to be difficult for it
               | to gain traction fighting against the rabid fanbase.
               | Wonder what could be a solution for this type of
               | censorship.
        
               | scohesc wrote:
               | Decentralization of platforms away from the larger
               | content aggregators and towards smaller, more tight-knit,
               | niche communities.
        
           | LinuxBender wrote:
           | Have they tried just putting the video on a VPS VM and a
           | single static web page with a synopsis of the video? Unless
           | there are tens of thousands of simultaneous viewers, one
           | should not even need a CDN. Happy to test this to see if
           | things have changed. If there are tens of thousands of
           | simultaneous viewers, there are about 35 or so decent CDN
           | vendors out there. Some of them are quite affordable.
        
         | neverminder wrote:
         | 2010-2015 was the golden age of YouTube. Adpocalypse
         | effectively killed it as a neutral platform and now even mildly
         | controversial videos get demonetized and/or removed. I
         | therefore consider Peertube as essiantial as Wikipedia and
         | Openstreetmap. I hope it becomes mainstream alternative to
         | YouTube.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | Does Wikipedia allow controversial content? It is fiercely
           | editorially controlled, and proudly so.
        
       | varispeed wrote:
       | How this platform is going to work with the coming content
       | filters and link tax in the EU?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Deukhoofd wrote:
       | Not as sexy as the v3 roadmap, but good to see them iterating and
       | improving on what's already there!
        
       | analyte123 wrote:
       | I enjoyed the "managing expectations" section here. It reminded
       | me that even as an average programmer contributing to the project
       | directly (via PRs, triaging, or just testing / running an
       | instance) is going to be more valuable than donating $10 or
       | whatever to a project like this.
        
       | gaws wrote:
       | Question to PeerTube: What are you doing to curb the ever-growing
       | number of white supremacists using your platform?
        
         | loceng wrote:
         | There should be freedom of speech, however that needs to be
         | balanced with the ability for centralized services - or trust
         | networks - to form and allowed to moderate, without a
         | centralized single government entity dictating what may be said
         | or not to avoid potential tyranny - nor to force all
         | organizations/platforms to be required to share everything
         | [minus whatever "hate" list is deemed inappropriate by the
         | government].
         | 
         | I do agree with Twitter, AWS, deplatforming who they want: why
         | would you purposefully allow a bad actor (or misguided people)
         | to use your technology/weapons? If they're not sophisticated
         | enough or want to piggyback on the technology of people who
         | don't believe you should be allowed to freely incite violence,
         | then those bad actors will learn a lesson - as they seemed to -
         | and then they will have to rally and align with those who do
         | fully support a lack of moderation, etc. There are other
         | problems like a lack of data and network portability laws, and
         | PeerTube to some degree is a bridge for that, but the laws
         | still need to be in place as a canary - if they ever happen to
         | get removed.
         | 
         | The broader issue is societal - and that our institutions have
         | been weakened by a number of factors including regulatory
         | capture by industrial complexes, tied with the duopoly -
         | leading to policy that kills off and suffocates the majority of
         | people instead of supporting them to be able to thrive. Racism,
         | as an example, could be argued as a multi-generational health
         | whereby narratives, role modelling, overlaid onto circumstances
         | of excess suffering, excess stress, that prime the racism to
         | continue to perpetuate. It's also a sign of a lack of deep,
         | genuine community and interconnectedness; we have politicians
         | and the mainstream media and the vast majority, if not all,
         | global brands constantly trying to manipulate us - and the
         | whole ad industry enabling little "mom and pop shops" from
         | being able to join in on the manipulate to sell things to
         | consumers, buying attention for little to no effort -
         | undeserved, unearned attention.
         | 
         | It's possible that if Trump hadn't been deplatformed then he
         | could have further incited violence, more easily, and quickly
         | enough; Parler and other forums did at least temporarily
         | organize at least the most avid. It's possible too - though
         | based on the Capitol incursion security forces weren't prepared
         | and/or lacking integrity - that security forces would have been
         | prepared to counter whatever portion of disenfranchised (and
         | misguided) Trump supporters would be ready to escalate further
         | violence. But the important part to all of it is that it was a
         | wakeup call - that Trump got voted in because who slid by the
         | control mechanisms and corridors the duopoly had managed to
         | evolve and strengthen over the last X decades - that there are
         | 80+ million people who aren't happy and are prone to lies,
         | propaganda coming from and being reenforced by these various
         | complexes.
         | 
         | In short conclusion, Andrew Yang's core policies seem like the
         | new foundation necessary to counter the majority, if not all,
         | of the problems that lead to this current state of America;
         | Presidential candidate, now running for Mayor of NYC.
        
         | rijoja wrote:
         | The thing about free speech is that it is not there to protect
         | popular opinion but rather unpopular opinions. If it was there
         | to protect popular opinions there wouldn't really be a need for
         | it would it?
        
         | zackees wrote:
         | The supremacist is the one that interferes with other people's
         | freedom of speech.
         | 
         | Aka look in the mirror.
        
         | dexterdog wrote:
         | I think the answer is that they will allow them to use the
         | platform which is equally open to anybody wishing to debate
         | what they are saying. I know it's hip to consider everybody who
         | does not parrot your opinions as a "white supremacist" but if
         | you really look at the people that are in the movement you will
         | find that they are miniscule in numbers and, for the most part,
         | pretty foolish and easily ignored.
        
         | betwixthewires wrote:
         | 1) peertube is not a platform, 2) nothing, hopefully. If you
         | don't like it don't watch it. There are 0 wholesome reasons to
         | have a hard on for dictating to people what they can or can't
         | say.
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | You know, I've heard almost all white supremacists are using
         | NTP these days too...
        
           | atat7024 wrote:
           | And Microsoft Windows.
        
             | coolspot wrote:
             | This accusation is over the top.
        
           | johnsolo1701 wrote:
           | This is disingenuous. NTP is not a platform to spread
           | destructive hate speech.
        
         | argvargc wrote:
         | I read this kind of complaint, but frequent most of the
         | services concerned and have never seen a single white-
         | supremacist. I see open discourse much the same as HN.
         | 
         | The few times I've visited any of the 'chans however, it's been
         | quite different - but curiously I don't see the same people
         | making these complaints mentioning them.
        
         | zeta0134 wrote:
         | I would say that if those members are hosting _on_ a PeerTube
         | controlled instance, then perhaps it is a moderation issue. If
         | those members are hosting their own instance that federates?
         | Well, then I think the tool is working as designed. Similar to
         | Mastodon, federation will probably need some controls for
         | flagging external servers as sensitive so users /instance
         | admins can choose to avoid that content if they wish. That'll
         | slightly fragment the market and frustrate content indexing,
         | but... ehh, I think some market fragmentation is preferable to
         | one central authority that not everyone agrees with.
         | 
         | One of the fundamental goals of free software is to enable its
         | use by all people, even and especially people you do not like.
         | That's not a problem for PeerTube to solve, it is a problem for
         | society at large to address within itself.
         | 
         | To frame this another way: think of the criminal organizations
         | which spin up a web server somewhere and install Apache on it
         | to host their illicit content and advertise their services. Is
         | Apache somehow to blame? No, of course not, _the criminals
         | are._ The same logic applies here; PeerTube, as a sharing
         | platform, is technically able to share any data, including hate
         | speech and other objectionable content. As an unbiased tool,
         | that 's a feature not a bug.
        
         | anoncake wrote:
         | I would like to ask the same question to Email.
        
           | theamk wrote:
           | Email is purely point to point though, it cannot be used to
           | discover new content. The mailing lists exist, but they are
           | separate entities, not related to email providers or email
           | protocols.
           | 
           | In contrast, https://joinpeertube.org/ recommends videos on
           | front page, and you can find offensive (to some) videos in 2
           | clicks.
        
           | onion2k wrote:
           | Are you suggesting that a significant use for email could be
           | communication between white supremacists? It's probably less
           | than 0.0001% of all emails sent.
           | 
           | On the other hand, if PeerTube is used to host a lot of pro-
           | facist video content made by racists that could be a problem
           | for PeerTube. It's an existential threat to the technology.
           | If governments and ISPs see it as _predominantly_ used for
           | that then they 'll ban it. If more legitimate users see it
           | being used for that then they'll stop peering video content
           | and it'll become much less useful. PeerTube will live or die
           | by the network effect it needs to be effective. Guarding
           | against the "wrong" users, or at least marketing it so that
           | more of the "right" users join, is essential. Nothing about
           | that is a judgement on the content or the users; it's the
           | simple reality of developing technology in a society full of
           | different opinions.
        
             | atat7024 wrote:
             | You're going to crucify an emerging technology for being
             | where edge groups congregate, even though that's that's
             | been the MO of the Internet since BBS days?!
        
               | remexre wrote:
               | Some technologies (e.g. Secure Scuttlebutt) have the
               | ability for subgroups to exist without aggressively
               | recommending content to every user, as an inherent
               | property of their design; I think "should Peertube adopt
               | some aspects of these designs" is a valid question.
        
           | gaws wrote:
           | Elaborate.
        
             | anoncake wrote:
             | Question to Email: What are you doing to curb the ever-
             | growing number of white supremacists using your platform?
        
               | gaws wrote:
               | Your initial response was confusing. You should've just
               | said: "Email them your question," or something to that
               | extent.
               | 
               | Regardless, I get what you mean.
        
         | jdasdf wrote:
         | Why do they have to curb anything?
        
         | marcodiego wrote:
         | From https://framablog.org/2021/01/07/peertube-v3-its-a-live-a-
         | li... :
         | 
         | "PeerTube is not a platform, it is a software."
        
         | mariusor wrote:
         | Why do you feel like the developers of a project _need_ to do
         | something to prevent people from using it. What exactly can
         | they do in your opinion?
         | 
         | (PS. I'm genuinely asking, I would appreciate an honest reply)
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | tekromancr wrote:
         | PeerTube isn't a platform, tho. It's software and a
         | corresponding protocol. It's akin to asking Microsoft why their
         | operating system allows people to view csa content.
        
       | throwawaysea wrote:
       | Is there a way to fund (donate) development?
        
         | Jhsto wrote:
         | The donate button on the front page takes you here:
         | https://framasoft.org/en/#soutenir
        
       | haolez wrote:
       | Random idea: we could create a .tube domain to disseminate the
       | idea that YouTube doesn't need to be the only video platform
       | around.
        
         | analyte123 wrote:
         | This already exists, e.g. invidious.tube (YouTube proxy
         | instance) or wago.tube (PeerTube instance).
        
         | edrxty wrote:
         | Create it and before opening it publicly, squat you.tube and
         | make it randomly redirect to any other registered domain.
        
           | bberenberg wrote:
           | It was registered in 2016 by MarkMonitor. My guess is that
           | YouTube already owns it.
        
           | judge2020 wrote:
           | Would probably violate trademark law and icann would make you
           | give it up. I guess if you go opennic or use a different
           | alternative root they might not care about court-ordered
           | domain forfeitures.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | Not if what you show isn't the primary market of YouTube.
        
             | edrxty wrote:
             | You could probably get away with never releasing it and
             | just leave it null.
        
               | haolez wrote:
               | Or simply hand you.tube to YouTube. Why not? :)
        
               | edrxty wrote:
               | Where's the fun in that
        
           | drvdevd wrote:
           | YouTube using you.tube would lend credence to the rest of the
           | .tube TLD actually.
        
           | judge2020 wrote:
           | This is already a gtld: https://icannwiki.org/.tube
        
         | wizzwizz4 wrote:
         | https://wiki.opennic.org/opennic/creating_new_tlds
        
       | IshKebab wrote:
       | Can someone explain the point of federating PeerTube. Their site
       | doesn't really explain it, and it seems like you still need to
       | create an account on every instance you want to use (if you want
       | to comment on/rate videos).
       | 
       | How is it different from lots of independent sites, with RSS
       | feeds for each channel?
        
         | sschueller wrote:
         | You only need one account on any instance and you can
         | rate/comment on any video in the federated network. However
         | there are instances that don't follow each other and for those
         | you would need a separate account.
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | Surely that's most instances? I don't see why the Blender
           | instance would follow the Extinction Rebellion instance for
           | example?
           | 
           | And doesn't that make it an N^2 problem? Does every instance
           | have to follow every other instance to make this work?
        
             | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
             | Actually, with v3, you can follow "any" peertube channel or
             | account regardless of whether your instance does the same
             | or not. Earlier this was only possible with a
             | mastodon/pleroma account only. Now your peertube user
             | account in instance "a" can follow any channel anywhere in
             | the fediverse.
             | 
             | This is like you want to follow some channel from
             | tilvids.com but dont want to follow the entire instance.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | What I don't understand is why they don't broaden the scope and
         | work more like IPFS, with a thin shell for displaying video
         | data.
        
           | gloriousternary wrote:
           | Isn't that more or less the idea behind LBRY?
        
             | rijoja wrote:
             | Yeah I think so. Instinctively I do believe that this would
             | be the most natural development. However I thought that
             | federated social networks where kind of cool so maybe this
             | is a better idea.
             | 
             | I do believe I tried to sign up for LBRY but I don't know
             | if it really took up.
             | 
             | Might it be that LBRY simply doesn't scale or that there is
             | some network effect that causes it not to work unless there
             | are some specific conditions.
        
             | dazaidesu wrote:
             | nope lbry uses their own custom torrent-like protocol on
             | top of their own fork of bitcoin with their own weird
             | python lbry daemon which communicates with a javascript
             | frontend which is pretty much completely centralized in the
             | browser version. Even the desktop version relies on
             | centralized features like comments system.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | Couple this news with this:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26804977 . We need not only
       | decentralization and "openness". We need independence. People
       | should be held accountable by lies and defamation they eventually
       | spread but the possibility of publishing information or "personal
       | media" should not be arbitrarily controlled by any government,
       | company or market.
       | 
       | Edit: replaced "Punishment for crimes like hate speech should be
       | enforced" by "People should be held accountable by lies and
       | defamation they eventually spread"
        
         | blasphemer1234 wrote:
         | Explain how hate speech laws are different from blasphemy laws
         | and why they should be enforced but blasphemy shouldn't be
         | illegal. I'll wait.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | seriousquestion wrote:
         | > Punishment for crimes like hate speech should be enforced
         | 
         | > "personal media" should not be arbitrarily controlled
         | 
         | This threw an exception, because "hate speech" is an arbitrary
         | type. It has no objective definition. It is defined by whoever
         | happens to be defining it.
        
           | adkadskhj wrote:
           | Not that i agree with the GP comment, but isn't that exactly
           | the point of courts?
           | 
           | Eg death threats and all sorts of illegal wording are
           | inaccurate in the literal, programming sense. Humans
           | (courts/etc) interpret and ultimately rule if a set of vague
           | concepts is in violation.
           | 
           | If it wasn't for this capability it would be hilariously easy
           | to avoid almost all repercussion from written/spoken word by
           | just adding a dash of vagueness to the subject. Throw in a
           | pinch of speaking in code and you'll never be charged for any
           | crime, yay!
           | 
           | I loosely agree with you, but lets not pretend that english
           | is even remotely as well defined as a programming language in
           | all cases.
        
             | jdasdf wrote:
             | Offloading the problem solving to courts doesn't fix the
             | issue, it just removes your involvement.
        
               | adkadskhj wrote:
               | I wasn't saying it does, i'm saying _we already have to
               | do that_. Ie, this isn't a new problem. It's a well
               | understood problem, because language is not concrete nor
               | so well defined as to be always explicit.
        
             | Covzire wrote:
             | The activists entrenched in Silicon Valley know better than
             | the peasants or the courts.
        
               | adkadskhj wrote:
               | Well i use the term courts loosely here, as it is besides
               | my point - my point was simply that humans _already_
               | interpret word as allowed or not.
               | 
               | We do not allow all english that isn't strictly defined
               | as bad, i thought. I can threaten you in ways that will
               | get me in trouble but are not, by themselves, a threat.
               | English is not that simple.
               | 
               | So my point is merely that it seems to be the precedent
               | is already set for humans to moderate human english. It
               | is not a programming language to be parsed and verified.
        
         | CWuestefeld wrote:
         | _Punishment for crimes like hate speech should be enforced_
         | 
         | Can I assume you're not in America? In the USA, "hate speech"
         | is not, and cannot be, a crime. The 1st Amendment forbids
         | content-based limitations on speech.
        
           | marcodiego wrote:
           | Yes, I'm not in the US. But I think I didn't express myself
           | clearly. Actually, what I mean is more something along the
           | lines: "people should be held accountable by what they
           | spread". Things like defamation are punishable in the US,
           | right?
        
             | extradesgo wrote:
             | No, not under criminal law. It requires a civil suit.
        
               | CWuestefeld wrote:
               | Also, in the USA, truth is an absolute defense to a
               | defamation claim. The burden of proof is on the plaintiff
               | to prove that the speaker was wrong, and further, in most
               | cases, that the speaker should have known that it was
               | wrong.
               | 
               | People like to talk about "defamation", but in America
               | the bar is so high that it's only rarely applicable.
        
           | TylerE wrote:
           | Go yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater and see how you do in
           | court.
        
           | the_rectifier wrote:
           | A death threat against a whole ethnicity is illegal and in no
           | way considered protected speech, and same goes for libel and
           | threats to individuals.
           | 
           | And this is by design.
        
           | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
           | The US Supreme Court has ruled in favour of restrictions on
           | free speech before; the First Amendment is not absolute. It
           | is not unthinkable that with changing society and changing
           | judicial review, the USA too may one day find hate speech to
           | be a crime.
        
             | dexterdog wrote:
             | Hate speech being a crime is not the problem. The power of
             | the arbiter of what defines hate speech is.
        
               | claudiawerner wrote:
               | It's also unclear to me why that, in turn, is a problem.
               | There are several fuzzy areas in American free speech law
               | as it stands, and arguably most people are already happy
               | to allow (and encourage) regulation in other important
               | areas of life, from medical/food regulation to warranty
               | regulations, to electrical safety regulations, to
               | frequency band regulations. The 'power of the arbiter'
               | there is almost never brought up as a problem, despite
               | the fact that this immense power can have very real
               | consequences.
               | 
               | If a democratically-elected government can be trusted (by
               | the populace who influence the laws) to regulate what you
               | can sell and what you can transmit in the airwaves, to
               | regulate the minimum amount you can pay people, to
               | regulate the age at which someone can be employed, etc. -
               | why shouldn't the same government, subject to the same
               | safeguards against misregulation, also have the ability
               | to regulate this portion of speech too?
               | 
               | This is more of a devil's advocate argument than
               | anything, but I'm interested in your thoughts.
        
               | bityard wrote:
               | In China, "hate speech" includes anything that is
               | critical of the government. I'm very happy that the U.S.
               | has a very high bar for free speech, otherwise we would
               | have been in a very bad spot all throughout the previous
               | presidential administration.
        
               | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
               | Yes. In india criticizing the government lands you in
               | soup for "destroying the social fabric of the country"
               | and "against the interests of the nation".
               | 
               | Smh
        
             | bluthru wrote:
             | >favour
             | 
             | Hello non-American. The Supreme Court has ruled that "hate
             | speech" is protected by the First Amendment, because of
             | court it is: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-
             | conspiracy/wp/201...
        
       | d0100 wrote:
       | In all decentralized solutions I've seen, they always seem to
       | effectively become roundabout centralized solutions. No matter
       | how "decentralized" something is, cost is the great centralizer:
       | you can always be excluded either by the cost of running your
       | decentralized hub or by network effects of being blacklisted in
       | free "decentralized" centralized servers
       | 
       | I think that the real decentralized solutions can only happen
       | when the cost of "I'm going to build my own with blackjack and
       | hookers" is free or at least until the price is embedable into
       | "usual" costs, like if your phone could become your
       | decentralized, always-available hub
        
         | raarts wrote:
         | So, 10 -20 years. Prices will have come down enough for every
         | household to host ALL their own data in their router. And offer
         | interested parties API access. And host distributed social
         | platforms.
        
           | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
           | Running a server from your home violates the terms of service
           | of many ISPs (they want you to upgrade to a more expensive
           | business plan for that). I'm not sure that is going to change
           | in 10-20 years. Nor do I think router storage space is going
           | to get significantly larger in the next decade, at least not
           | in terms of being able to host large videos.
        
       | google234123 wrote:
       | The choice to maintain 80 projects and not grow beyond 10
       | employees is puzzling to me. Those two decisions seem
       | antithetical to each other. 80 projects is too many regardless
        
         | aftbit wrote:
         | Wow only one developer working on PeerTube and not even full
         | time. No way will that level of effort be able to challenge any
         | of the incumbents.
        
           | sschueller wrote:
           | You are welcome to help. I have very little time but managed
           | to get a working android client running and published:
           | https://github.com/sschueller/peertube-android
        
             | analognoise wrote:
             | Has this line of thinking ever actually convinced even one
             | person?
             | 
             | It's why FOSS can't make serious inroads in a lot of
             | domains. Like 20 years ago I was convinced we'd all never
             | be paying for Word, but here we are, 20 years later, still
             | buying Word.
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | We are buying Word?
        
               | devoutsalsa wrote:
               | The fact that anything at all happens for $0 is amazing.
               | It's hard to find half-decent volunteer opportunities in
               | general.
        
               | ClumsyPilot wrote:
               | Word does exactly what it says on the tin and doesnt
               | steal your data. Facebook/google on the other hand...
        
               | ekianjo wrote:
               | > I was convinced we'd all never be paying for Word, but
               | here we are, 20 years later, still buying Word.
               | 
               | Inertia has long lasting effects.
        
           | remram wrote:
           | How many people work on YouTube, Vimeo, ... the platforms
           | themselves, as opposed to promotion, monetization algorithms,
           | marketing, etc? PeerTube actually works really well, and as
           | long as communities come together to help with
           | support/promotion/... I don't see why it couldn't "challenge
           | any of the incumbents" even with only one developer on staff.
        
           | fallat wrote:
           | It isn't about challenging anything.
           | 
           | It's about a libre alternative.
           | 
           | Does the apple challenge the orange? They are both fruits!
        
             | anamexis wrote:
             | As a peer-to-peer service, its existence depends on uptake,
             | and as a video service, uptake of PeerTube is a challenge
             | to YouTube.
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | You can take up both.
        
         | wazoox wrote:
         | They explicitly want to say small, and they plan to phase out
         | many projects, in the hope that others will carry on.
        
         | edhelas wrote:
         | Welcome to the Free Software movement. I invite you to check
         | how the GitHub page of some core contributors of some projects.
        
           | mhh__ wrote:
           | I'm not particularly productive really, but seeing a few
           | people I interact with pumping out open source PRs, and doing
           | releases, all while (say) being the CTO of a company boggles
           | the mind
        
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