[HN Gopher] Estate agent's hi-tech house tour exposes personal data
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       Estate agent's hi-tech house tour exposes personal data
        
       Author : salgernon
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2021-04-13 20:03 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | cortesoft wrote:
       | This is basically like an open house. They should have prepped
       | the house the same way before taking these photos.
       | 
       | The high tech part seems not really related. The same thing would
       | have happened with plain photos, or an in person open house.
        
         | munk-a wrote:
         | They should've but the tech part is relevant. Obvious bad
         | actors that are snooping around in open houses are certainly an
         | issue but can be remediated a lot easier - you can kick those
         | visitors out and bar folks with a history of snooping from
         | entry - both of which work _relatively_ well on the local
         | level.
         | 
         | I think tech is specifically relevant here since this is
         | another clear example of scaling up beyond cultural norms using
         | technology causing emergent security issues - the issues were
         | present all along but there were some systems in place to limit
         | how harmful they could be and technology has released us from
         | those limits.
        
           | emodendroket wrote:
           | Typically in an open house just anybody can walk in, can't
           | they? It's not like they ask you for ID.
        
             | zaphod12 wrote:
             | I've seen realtors ask for ID unless you're accompanied by
             | another realtor (who would leave a card). Basically they
             | want a record of people through the house in case something
             | does happen. You could easily make a fake business card, of
             | course... professional courtesy means a realtor seldom asks
             | another for an id. But this would likely only work briefly
             | in a given area once word got out.
        
             | munk-a wrote:
             | It isn't a public space so you can be barred from entry
             | and, often, you'll be let into the house by a realtor. If
             | that realtor recognizes you as abusing open houses they can
             | just refuse you entry or take a more extreme measure.
        
               | monocasa wrote:
               | I'm not sure that I would trust a realtor to recognize
               | war driving (war showing?).
        
               | krisoft wrote:
               | Realtors are there to sell houses. I wouldn't be
               | surprised if most of them had a keen "nose" to figure out
               | who is just "interested" and who means real business.
               | After all it is in their best interest to not waste their
               | time with lookie-loos.
               | 
               | Obviously that doesn't mean that one can't pretend well
               | enough once or twice, but not at a scale where this
               | becomes a viable avenue to criminals.
        
           | brundolf wrote:
           | > scaling up beyond cultural norms
           | 
           | This is a great way of framing a certain class of problems
           | that I think people on HN tend to dismiss. "Technically we're
           | doing the same thing as before!" Yes, but as we should all
           | know from the engineering side of things, scale is still very
           | relevant.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | open-source-ux wrote:
       | " _clues about their political views based on their choices of
       | reading material_ "
       | 
       | Interesting. Millions of people have work-related zoom meetings
       | (or publicly posted webinars) while sitting in front of their
       | bookshelves. Many people don't have a problem with that. Some of
       | those books might even be strategically placed so that they are
       | in clear view. You can discern a little about someone's interests
       | by what's on their bookshelves, but perhaps not always
       | accurately.
       | 
       | I wonder how people feel about displaying the contents of their
       | bookshelf online while onscreen? I'm guessing for most people
       | it's not a concern.
       | 
       | Here's Bret Victor's bookshelf from 2015 which we posted himself
       | on his website. Click to zoom: http://worrydream.com/Shelf2015/
        
         | spitfire wrote:
         | > "clues about their political views based on their choices of
         | reading material"
         | 
         | This is exactly why I put Karl Marx next to F a Hayek. It's
         | like a social logic bomb.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | I don't even open my kindle app around people anymore because
         | of that assumption
         | 
         | Glad I never got into bookshelves (and that nobody of child
         | bearing age judges people on the lack of physically displayed
         | books in their dwelling)
        
           | Robotbeat wrote:
           | I don't judge people by lack of bookshelves, but I actually
           | LOVE looking at folks' bookshelves. It basically tells you
           | what their interests & philosophical history were from age 18
           | to 30 (and mostly in the college years) in a concise way.
           | 
           | People change a lot over time; I don't _judge_ people on what
           | they have on their bookshelf, but it definitely provides fast
           | context for their worldview, providing background for who
           | they are today and how their opinions developed. It provides
           | an immediate jumping off point to discuss common interests
           | and ideas.
           | 
           | There's nothing better for this purpose.
        
             | vmception wrote:
             | It's over its not happening anymore. Follow people's
             | "stories" to see what they signal or post about, which is
             | currently common for people that are _currently_ 18 to 30.
             | 
             | There is missing metadata in that approach just like there
             | is missing metadata in the bookshelf approach.
             | 
             | What we need is a way to make filter bubbles and echo
             | chambers fungible. Like, we should be able to alter our
             | user session to that of our contact's, with their consent.
             | Transmit their whole data-broker profile to our computer
             | and look at it. Or browse the internet and social networks
             | as if you had their session, just to see how search results
             | are different, how news headlines are different, which
             | articles are shared to them, what their stories are
             | reinforcing.
             | 
             | That will be even more insightful than what your world used
             | to be like.
        
         | smthngwitty wrote:
         | You can even buy 'Books by the Foot'[1] on a particular topic
         | to dress up your Zoom set up.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.booksbythefoot.com/
        
         | bentcorner wrote:
         | > _Many people don 't have a problem with that._
         | 
         | My workplace has specific training to use the blurring feature
         | of the conferencing app we use, specifically for
         | security/privacy reasons. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that
         | other work places do the same thing.
        
         | notsureaboutpg wrote:
         | This sucks. Just because I read or own a book does not mean I
         | agree with what's written inside it. You can never learn things
         | you don't agree with if you won't even read them or if people
         | will assume you believe everything in a book you read.
        
       | ekrebs wrote:
       | Agents and homeowners have been taking photos of homes for sale
       | for decades, and all sorts of private info has leaked this way.
       | I'm in the industry on the tech side and I've seen photos of
       | people naked in mirrors, signed documents, children,
       | hobbies/interests, framed photos saying things like "Joseph
       | Edward Smith - born Aug 6, 2010", bills and more.
       | 
       | This technology makes it more likely for the volume of leaked
       | data to increase, and the photo resolutions give more data per
       | image, but agents have been trained to stage houses for a long
       | time and should be expected to handle this. Blame the agent.
       | 
       | Although the tech certainly has room for improvement. All it
       | takes is for someone to sue Zillow for exposing their private
       | images online for automatic blurring technology to magically
       | appear.
        
       | myself248 wrote:
       | What's obnoxious is there's no interface to go in and blur the
       | photos after they're taken. The software just isn't built for it;
       | it's meant for agents to operate with little to no technical
       | knowledge.
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
       | A good example of how the internet is not compareable to real
       | life. Whenever someone handwaves "but that's always happened"
       | 
       | In person, the chance of a local person traveling to your house
       | to photograph a cheque is non-existent.
       | 
       | On the internet you can script a search of all homes. Its all
       | about the ability to search quickly.
       | 
       | I see companies are getting photos of my front door now when
       | packages get delivered. I wonder what we can get from that....
        
         | munk-a wrote:
         | Maybe put a QR code on your door and see where you get hits
         | from?
         | 
         | Alternatively set up a honeypot by gluing a fake bill to your
         | mailbox as if it's a letter dangling out with some personal
         | information on the envelope? It'd be interesting to see if
         | anyone is running any automatic extraction over pictures of
         | mailboxes.
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-13 23:00 UTC)