[HN Gopher] Obsolete German Units of Measurement
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Obsolete German Units of Measurement
        
       Author : zeristor
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2021-04-11 11:40 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | In south asia traditional units of measurement are still in use
       | for gold jewelry and similar:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tola_(unit)
        
       | durnygbur wrote:
       | Now do "Imperial units of measurement to be obsoleted".
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Let's not have a hellwar about this please. Anything so
         | repetitive (and likely so nasty) is off topic here.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | fanf2 wrote:
         | They already are mostly obsolete!
         | 
         | (American units date from before the British volume measure
         | reform that created imperial units.)
        
         | pmontra wrote:
         | Believe it or not, the US rod is a close relative to the
         | Italian pertica, which is a traditional unit of length and
         | surface, coming straight from the Roman Empire. It's still used
         | to refer to the size of fields. I found it recently in some
         | sales announcements. Of course every city had its own variant.
         | 
         | https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pertica_(unit%C3%A0_di_misura)
        
       | shimonabi wrote:
       | My country (Slovenia) was under Austrian domination for a long
       | time, so we informally still use klaftra (Klafter in German) for
       | firewood. It now means 4 m3, but I guess it was defined by the
       | particular region in the past.
        
         | Scoundreller wrote:
         | Sounds close enough to a cord in North America.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cord_(unit)
         | 
         | What bothers me is that it, of course, depends how you
         | cut/stack it. Different woods = different density.
         | 
         | Firewood should be sold on based on dry weight, not volume.
         | 
         | A lot of American recipes assume scales are for cocaine dealers
         | and inappropriately use volume and dumb measures at that "a
         | teaspoon???" While European recipes appropriately use grams.
        
           | soneil wrote:
           | I have precisely one teaspoon which actually measures a
           | teaspoon. The rest of my teaspoons are spoons used for making
           | tea, but don't actually measure a teaspoon.
           | 
           | However, none of my cups are actually cups. they're just
           | cups.
           | 
           | It amuses me that these are actual (and accurate) sentences.
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | Different crystals will pack differently, so a teaspoon of
             | table sugar from brand1 will be different than brand2. Same
             | between icing and table sugar.
             | 
             | And different syrups will have different surface tensions,
             | so a 5mL flattish teaspoon will hold more than a 5mL deep-
             | well
        
               | erichurkman wrote:
               | And if you own cookbooks, check the intro to see if it
               | notes what kind of salt to use. Most recipes use coarser
               | kosher salt for measure, at least with professional
               | recipe writers.
               | 
               | Table salt is made of finer crystals and will make your
               | dish far saltier if you substitute them unknowingly.
               | (Fine table salt packs about 2x the salt into 1tsp than
               | Diamond Kosher -- 2 tsp Diamond Kosher == 1 1/2 tsp
               | Morton Kosher == 1 tsp regular table salt.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I use a scale at home but, for many purposes, it really is
           | easier to use measuring spoons for things like spices and
           | baking soda than to use the scale for everything.
           | 
           | Even my cookbooks that do give weights as well as volumes for
           | ingredients like flour, tend to just give measuring spoon
           | amounts for the small additions.
           | 
           | To your cord example, precision just isn't a big deal and I'm
           | sure it's just easier for people selling to throw an
           | approximate volume in their truck than weighing everything.
        
         | Ekaros wrote:
         | Measuring firewood is fun too. Here we have 3 different ways to
         | measure it. Roughly: loose, piled and solid. And differences
         | aren't small. Really matters what are you talking about,
         | loosely piled, properly piled or actual amount of material
         | minus all air...
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | kuschku wrote:
       | Hopefully someday there'll be a page like this for the US,
       | referencing the pound or mile as obsolete measures.
        
         | endymi0n wrote:
         | Conversation I had with a US guy a decade ago: ,,Hey now that
         | I'll stay in Europe here for some time, I want to get a real
         | feeling for the temperatures here..." - ,,Sure!" - ,,So what
         | temperature is freezing water in Celsius?" - ,,Zero." - ,,Wow,
         | that's funny. Like, exactly?" - ,,Yeah, it's the definition." -
         | ,,Cool, but what temperature is boiling water?" - ,,100
         | degrees." - ,,That... makes a lot of sense!" - ,,Doesn't it?
         | You're welcome :)"
        
           | BlueTemplar wrote:
           | Celsius is not that practical for everyday life though :
           | 
           | 1.) The 0-32-96 degF range covers much better the range
           | typically experienced by humans than 0-100 degC.
           | 
           | 2.) It's more dozenal than decimal allowing for easier
           | mathematics (even when stuck in a decimal number
           | representation system like we are).
           | 
           | 3.) For "non-human" fields, you are probably better off
           | anyway using a scale starting at the absolute zero. (The
           | triple point of water seems like a good candidate for 100
           | degrees ? Or maybe a value directly related to log 2, e, kB
           | ?)
        
             | diroussel wrote:
             | "practical for everyday life" involves cooking, and I
             | encounter 0degC and 100degC regulary, with ice and boiling
             | water.
             | 
             | To be honest, humans are likely able to adapt to scale when
             | talking about the weather, or how hot the room is.
             | 
             | The reasons the US should move to metric are: - The rest of
             | the world is on metric - It's better for science and
             | engineering
             | 
             | I'm not suggested moving is easy, just that I for one would
             | like it to be attempted.
        
             | majewsky wrote:
             | For room temperatures or air temperatures, integer degC is
             | exactly the right amount of resolution. The difference
             | between 20degC and 21degC is pretty much exactly what I
             | would be able to tell apart.
             | 
             | And on the other hand, for body temperatures, tenths of
             | degC as a level of resolution is just right, whereas
             | integer degF would be too coarse.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | >For "non-human" fields
             | 
             | In those cases, Kelvin is customarily used with the same
             | degree size as Celsius with 0 Celsius corresponding to
             | 273.15 K. (There is a corresponding scale for Fahrenheit
             | degrees but it's rarely used.)
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | gh02t wrote:
           | Interesting tidbit, the original definition for Celsius set 0
           | as boiling and 100 as freezing. It was swapped in 1743.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Let's not have a hellwar about this please. Anything so
         | repetitive (and likely so nasty) is off topic here.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | burlesona wrote:
         | I agree, I very much hope we'll switch to metric in my
         | lifetime.
         | 
         | That said, I do think but it's worth knowing that one of the
         | reasons metric had a harder time catching on is that the US had
         | already standardized its units a full fifty years before the
         | metric system was developed. So, while our systems aren't
         | mathematically consistent or elegant as the metric system, by
         | the time metric came about they were at least geographically
         | consistent, so the painful business problem this Wikipedia page
         | illustrates - of not knowing "what is a foot" from town to town
         | - didn't exist anymore.
         | 
         | One final note, a common misconception I encounter with non-
         | Americans online is that Americans have no idea about metric.
         | That's not true. Metric is taught in schools and is the
         | exclusive unit system for scientific work. We only have metric
         | for electrical units. Certain other metric units are also
         | common, for example liters, milliliters, grams, and centimeters
         | are all used relatively commonly. Other units are frequently
         | presented side-by-side with metric: mi/km or temperatures in
         | f/c. So most Americans understand and can reason about metric
         | units (perhaps with some discomfort), but unfortunately usage
         | of the "American Customary Unit System" remains predominate.
        
           | greenwich26 wrote:
           | >Metric is taught in schools and is the exclusive unit system
           | for scientific work.
           | 
           | Not in astrophysics and cosmology. You almost never hear of
           | meters or grams. We use a hodgepodge of different units
           | depending on what is most convenient and sensible. Working in
           | the solar system? AU. In the galaxy? Light-years or parsecs.
           | And in theoretical work, you often will encounter mass
           | measured in electron-volts, distances measured in solar
           | masses, or temperature measured in square meters, or (more
           | often) everything measured in unitless quantities with no
           | dimensions at all.
           | 
           | It really does feel a lot like the traditional medieval
           | measuring systems, messy but once you learn them, useful and
           | comfortable in the mind.
        
           | Denvercoder9 wrote:
           | _> Metric [...] is the exclusive unit system for scientific
           | work._
           | 
           | Lockheed Martin and the Mars Climate Orbiter beg to differ.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | Which was over 20 years ago. I'm sure it's not 100% but
             | it's certainly fair to say that the metric system is used
             | extensively in science and engineering.
        
               | Denvercoder9 wrote:
               | It's certainly used extensively, but exclusively is a big
               | stretch, even nowadays. I've come across research papers
               | from the last couple of years using feet and inches.
        
         | thrower123 wrote:
         | Metric might be good for scientific measurements, but it's a
         | trash system for day-to-day human usage.
         | 
         | This most stark in Celsius, where the useful range of
         | temperatures where humans can live is compressed into roughly
         | -20 C to 40 C, versus 0 to 100 in Fahrenheit.
        
           | whatever_dude wrote:
           | The first point you're trying to make doesn't seem to hold.
           | 
           | You use a subjective opinion on one unit's range as a proxy
           | for all other units. How is the meter (cm, mm, km, etc) trash
           | compared to the foot (inch, yard, mile, etc)? They're
           | objectively better in every regard, not just for scientific
           | purposes but in everyday life.
           | 
           | Come to think of it, it's the first time I'm seeing someone
           | making that sort of statement rather than the usual "it's too
           | difficult to change now" excuse.
        
           | jillesvangurp wrote:
           | Metric works fine everywhere it is used. It's just what you
           | are used to. American engineering isn't any better or worse
           | than engineering elsewhere. There's no inherent advantage to
           | using a different way to measure stuff that you can
           | objectively point at.
           | 
           | The history of the Fahrenheit scale is actually quite
           | fascinating. It's one of the less famous things to come out
           | of the Dutch eighteenth century scientific community. Daniel
           | Fahrenheit picked a few reference points to calibrate
           | thermometers. None of these have anything to do with your
           | level of comfort. That was never a thing or an intention.
           | 
           | Zero was the temperature of a particular mixture of ammonium
           | chloride and water and ice (a brine basically) reaching an
           | equilibrium. The second point (30) was picked as the
           | temperature of water with ice floating in it. The main point
           | was to make this somewhat of a repeatable process. Basically
           | water with ice in it has a very stable temperature because
           | the transition from ice to water takes a lot of energy.
           | Tossing in some ammonium chloride in a known quantity gives
           | you a second point of reference that is different enough that
           | it is meaningful.
           | 
           | Daniel Fahrenheit was using those two points to calibrate
           | mercury based thermometers. He came up with a third reference
           | point: the temperature you get when you insert a thermometer
           | into your mouth. This was originally supposed to be 90
           | degrees. Later it was determined to be 96 and we now know it
           | is 98.2 degrees. In other words, he kind of messed up there
           | by picking something a bit harder to measure.
           | 
           | The final reference point that Daniel Fahrenheit worked with
           | was the boiling point of mercury. Which he put at 300
           | degrees. The scale was redefined several times according to
           | progressive insights regarding e.g. the notion that there are
           | about 180 degrees Fahrenheit difference between freezing and
           | boiling water.
           | 
           | The latter is of course an attempt to reconcile the scale
           | with the centigrade scale which is based on the freezing and
           | boiling temperatures of water. That's technically also
           | somewhat imprecise of course but quite easy to figure out.
           | Basically take water, put ice in it, wait a bit. That's your
           | zero point. Then put it on a fire, wait for it to boil.
           | That's 100. Put two little markings on your glass tube with
           | mercury where that happens and then divide that into tens and
           | again into tens. That's a repeatable process for making a
           | thermometer. Not super precise of course because it depends
           | on air pressure (later of course factored into its
           | definition). But if you are making thermometers, that's
           | pretty easy to do if you are an eighteenth century instrument
           | maker. You need ice of course but that would have been a
           | commodity much of the year where Celsius was living
           | (Stockholm).
           | 
           | For better or worse, the metric system actually uses Kelvin
           | which simply is the Celsius scaling (or centigrade as it was
           | called originally) but adjusted to absolute zero -273.15deg.
           | That last adjustment by .15 degrees happened only fairly
           | recently actually. Fahrenheit only continues to exist as a
           | derived scale from that. None of its original reference
           | points are precise enough to matter these days. That's true
           | for most remaining imperial measurements: they are defined
           | very precisely in metric units. You can measure feet with
           | your feet of course. But only if you don't care about
           | precision. Any self respecting engineer uses more carefully
           | calibrated instruments.
        
           | bserge wrote:
           | Shame you're downvoted, because it's a comment that shows why
           | this imperial/American vs metric "competition" is silly.
           | 
           | It's like saying Cyrillic is better than Latin script. Or
           | driving on the left is better than on the right. In reality,
           | it just doesn't matter. Whichever you grow up with will seem
           | like the easier one.
           | 
           | When I think -5C, I know how the temperature will actually
           | feel. Someone who thinks "25F" will feel the same in their
           | head. Same for 25cm, 5 inches, 10kg, 40lbs, 9 stones, 7
           | shaku, etc. Whatever you grew up with will feel better.
           | 
           | Metric just seems to have won in most of the world, including
           | in countries like the US and Japan which use it in
           | science/industry. It just makes sense to have one standard
           | for communicating with as many other people as possible.
        
             | majewsky wrote:
             | > It's like saying Cyrillic is better than Latin script.
             | [...] It just doesn't matter.
             | 
             | Out of all the examples that you gave, this is the one that
             | doesn't fit your argument. Cyrillic has a wider range of
             | letters which makes it a better fit for certain languages
             | with a specific phonology. I don't remember which language
             | it was, but I remember reading about one of the countries
             | between Russia, Turkey, Iran, etc. switched from their
             | indigenous writing system to Latin script in the
             | 1930s/1940s to enable usage of standard typewriters etc.
             | And just a few years later, they switched again, to
             | Cyrillic script, after finding that Latin script does not
             | fit their language all that well.
        
           | birdsbirdsbirds wrote:
           | In other words, it's Fahrenheit that doesn't make sense
           | because it goes from arbitrary -20 C to 40 C. Even the
           | originally targeted alignment with human body temperature to
           | 96 F doesn't match.
           | 
           | On the other hand, freezing and boiling water makes sense,
           | because you know that you have to drive carefully when the
           | temperature is below 0 C.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | I'll actually defend Fahrenheit more strongly than other US
             | units. 32 degrees is a single number it's probably worth
             | remembering. Balanced against that, environmental
             | temperatures are usually going to be positive unless it's
             | really fricking cold and the degrees are about twice as
             | granular. The main advantage of Celsius is just that it's
             | what's used in most places (and that it's tied in with
             | metric units).
             | 
             | The absolute scale of Celsius (as opposed to the size of
             | the degree) isn't the most useful anyway because you tend
             | to use Kelvin for a lot of purposes.
        
           | ruph123 wrote:
           | I hear this again and again from Americans, but it is simply
           | a matter of what you are used to, e.g. what you grew up with.
           | 
           | Its funny how it is so important to have a wider range of
           | temperatures whereas I most often hear Americans use ranges.
           | And instead of saying "today temps will go up into the 70s"
           | you just give the actual number, "it will go up to 23C", what
           | is the problem with that? You could also say because a
           | celsius degree is greater, the number matters much more and
           | it is often not necessary to give a range like that. Ranges
           | or not, it does not matter. A celsius is certainly small
           | enough that decimals are not necessary for humans day-to-day.
           | 
           | What I also often hear from Americans is that the inch is
           | such a perfect unit and "2.5cm" is so awkward but then I hear
           | "6/8 of an inch" and similar units or the mixing of feet and
           | inch and I just don't get it.
        
             | soneil wrote:
             | This is pretty much where I'm at. Below 30 I put on a
             | t-shirt. Below 20 I put on long sleeves. Below 10 I put on
             | a jacket. I have absolutely no idea what I'm expecting when
             | the Americans say 65.
             | 
             | This isn't a feature of either system, it's straight-
             | forward familiarity. I'm sure if the weather man used
             | Kelvin, it wouldn't take me long to figure out how to dress
             | for it.
        
           | zikzak wrote:
           | I grew up when metric was replacing "imperial" in Canada. The
           | road signs had mph and kph, thermometers all have C and F,
           | tape measures have both (lumber is still sold as a 2x4, its
           | pre-finished dimension). Socket sets. God.
           | 
           | Anyway, metric just makes sense for most things. The
           | attachment is cultural. My parents talked about my height and
           | weight in the old units. I still use them and so do
           | government forms.
           | 
           | But there's nothing "good" about the old stuff. It's just
           | what you are used to.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | chki wrote:
           | But if you actually need more accuracy (which I do not in my
           | daily life) you can simply add a decimal point? Also, that's
           | a difference between 60 and 100 data points, which is not
           | really that much.
        
             | ajmurmann wrote:
             | Americans don't seem to like decimal points. Everything has
             | to be expressed in fractions.
        
           | AlexanderDhoore wrote:
           | 5 kilometer = 5000 meter = 500 000 centimeter = 5000 000
           | millimeter. Now you do this for 5 miles (yard, feet, inches).
        
             | greenwich26 wrote:
             | 1/8 mile = 220 yards = 660 feet. Now you do t--actually
             | wait.
             | 
             | 1/110 mile = 16 yards = 48 feet. Now you do this for an
             | one-hundred-and-tenth of a kilometer.
             | 
             | Or...
             | 
             | 1/3 pound = 1/2 mark = 6 shillings & eightpence = 80 pence.
             | Now you do this for a euro. 1/3 of a euro = , ummm?
             | 
             | The point is, the traditional measures are built out of
             | very highly divisible numbers, which is very useful in
             | certain applications, for example surveying, bartering,
             | baking, etc. Just like the metric measures are built out of
             | powers of ten, which is very useful in certain other
             | applications, like seamlessly moving between scales of
             | magnitude in scientific work.
        
               | ruph123 wrote:
               | 1/8 km = 0.125km = 125m = 12500cm
               | 
               | So freaking what. Use decimals and you can easily convert
               | anything into everything. And you don't have to rely on
               | those few cases where you can exactly divide.
               | 
               | 6.8m = 680cm = 0.0068km, etc.
               | 
               | Who writes out prices in fractions?
               | 
               | Its even worse with baking. Scaling up units from recipes
               | is really hard if you have fractions of different units
               | like tee spoon, table spoon and cup and when ounces can
               | both mean a volume and a weight. ("fl. is not always
               | specified") No thank you.
               | 
               | Also your examples are really poor, when the base systems
               | keep changing in the same dimensions (e.g. length) there
               | is not benefit at all, just confusion or reluctance to
               | convert to other units because it would be too awkward.
        
               | greenwich26 wrote:
               | When you need to partition a field using crude tools,
               | there is nothing "easily" done with decimals. Integers
               | are far easier to work with and measure out. This is
               | simply proven by the most basic outdoor experience, which
               | I suppose you don't have.
               | 
               | Being able to divide by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, and
               | 12 is not a "few cases", it's the chief part of the small
               | integers into which stuff often needs to be divided
               | evenly.
               | 
               | If you ever went to the market before decimalisation, you
               | would meet many who write prices in fractions. Something
               | would be priced at X pounds/crowns/marks per Y
               | items/weights. Then, the cost of Z units/weights is XZ/Y.
               | When the coins are highly divisible multiples of each
               | other, you have a lot of choices to be able to pay the
               | exact amount and don't have to bother with getting change
               | back. Even better if we price by the dozens (Y = 12)
               | instead of 10s: 12 has twice as many factors than 10.
               | 
               | I understand that this all requires a certain numeracy
               | however. Thankfully nowadays we can just buy things using
               | their credit cards on Amazon: makes mindless consumption
               | much easier.
        
           | ema wrote:
           | The important feature of the metric system, for day to day
           | use at least, is that it plays nice with decimal numbers. I
           | grant you that in this regard Celsius has no advantage over
           | Fahrenheit. However for measuring lengths calculating in
           | thousands of inches, power of two fractions of inches, and
           | even tenths of feet (apparently excavator operators use that)
           | seems more an opportunity to showcase one's mental arithmetic
           | skills than something selected for ease of use.
        
       | 1cvmask wrote:
       | The horror of having to manage all those different competing
       | measurements from town to town. This definitely played a role in
       | the advancement of technology and industrialization. Precision is
       | critical to most modern engineering challenges like jet engines
       | and rockets and long lasting cars.
        
         | usrusr wrote:
         | Or Mars Climate Orbiters, to state the obvious.
         | 
         | But your inclusion of long lasting cars is a very good one,
         | tiny differences that seem good enough but aren't can have
         | extreme impact on durability whenever you deal with moving
         | parts. If we had a large number of competing units (like all
         | those pre-metric German foot variations) we'd have a huge
         | number of possible translation pairs of questionable precision
         | and an absurd lack of dimensional conventions (try procuring a
         | ball bearing with a dimension anywhere between full-numbers in
         | mm), leading to lots of "it did fit without noticeable play
         | when I set it up, why is it broken now?" situations. Compared
         | to that, the American duality of imperial and metric is mostly
         | harmless.
        
           | zokier wrote:
           | I think that long lasting cars was a reference to how Ford
           | was notoriously early adopter of gauge blocks, which
           | eventually became the standard references for inches.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_block#History
        
             | usrusr wrote:
             | Ah, much less obvious, at least for us non-Americans, thank
             | you.
        
             | Lev1a wrote:
             | Also see:
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNRnrn5DE58
        
       | ruph123 wrote:
       | Fun fact: Even the Americans define their fantasy units in terms
       | of metric units:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmSJXC6_qQ8
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Please don't post flamebait or swipes to HN. It leads to
         | tedious, nasty threads.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
       | KineticLensman wrote:
       | Some of these are so obsolete that even the awesome Frink [0]
       | doesn't handle them                 From: 10 Wegstunde       To:
       | metres       Result: Warning: undefined symbol "Wegstunde".
       | Warning: undefined symbol "Wegstunde".       Unconvertable
       | expression:       10 Wegstunde (undefined symbol) -> 1 m (length)
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://frinklang.org/fsp/frink.fsp?fromVal=10+Wegstunde&toV...
        
       | gxqoz wrote:
       | Germany was not unique in this. From Ian Mortimer's book The Time
       | Traveler's Guide to Medieval England:
       | 
       | "There are considerable complexities attached to other measures.
       | It is not so much that they vary as they may be differently
       | interpreted, according to what you are trying to measure. A foot
       | in length is the same as your modern foot of 12 inches but if you
       | are measuring cloth you use the ell, normally 45 inches--but 27
       | inches if the cloth is Flemish. Probably the most complicated
       | measures are those involving liquids. A gallon of wine is not the
       | same volume as a gallon of ale. A standard hogshead contains 63
       | wine-gallons or 52.5 ale-gallons. Except that there is no such
       | thing as a standard hogshead; there is a standard for wine,
       | another for ale, and a third for beer (which is imported). If you
       | are buying beer in London, a hogshead amounts of 54 ale-gallons;
       | if you are buying ale, it amounts to 48."
       | 
       | And so on.
       | 
       | https://books.google.com/books?id=NF_8YUhO7CUC&printsec=fron...
        
         | zeristor wrote:
         | Even earlier didn't they have different counting systems fo
         | different items?
         | 
         | Like a brace of birds.
        
         | greggman3 wrote:
         | Japan has several. Not sure if they are obsolete. Rooms are
         | often measured by tatami mats. a 6 mat room, an 8 mat room,
         | etc... I also once bought a tape measure assuming there was
         | only one kind and it was metric but it turned out there are at
         | least 2, metric and the shaku and I bought the wrong one.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_units_of_measurement
        
           | ilamont wrote:
           | Taiwan (former Japanese colony) still uses Ping  (2 tatami
           | mats) to measure the size of homes. Street markets often use
           | Jin  to measure weight and price items. It's .6 kg and the
           | English term is "catty"
        
           | Scoundreller wrote:
           | In a way, we all do this.
           | 
           | A 4-person tent can hold about 4 teenagers travelling with
           | nothing.
           | 
           | An airline seat is built to the "standard" person, but the
           | average person is overweight/obese in USA.
           | 
           | A "lunch" can vary from 500 to 2500 calories.
           | 
           | A medium coffee = ???. When a Canadian coffee chain expanded
           | to USA, an order for a medium was put into their L cups.
           | 
           | A Tetra Pak of Tropicana has gone from 2L to 1.89L to 1.75L.
           | 
           | Don't even get me started on clothes.
           | 
           | Surprisingly, the government has done a great job at
           | maintaining standards in the tobacco industry. Nobody is
           | selling packs of cigarettes with 19 slightly-shorter
           | cigarettes.
        
             | marshmallow_12 wrote:
             | nothing makes me angrier then slightly-shorter products.
             | I.e sandwiches packets etc. It's cheating and wrong.
        
         | zokier wrote:
         | The whole reason why French invented the metric system was
         | because they had similar mess of various local measurement
         | units all over the place, which notably made taxation and
         | regulation complicated.
        
           | kazen44 wrote:
           | and the reason most of continental Europe started using
           | metric was thanks to napoleon and the Napoleonic wars.
        
           | fanf2 wrote:
           | England was better off than France in the 1700s: in England
           | there were national standards for the various measures, but
           | in France they were local and differed from place to place.
           | This opened up all sorts of opportunities for arbitrage and
           | petty fraud.
           | 
           | American customary units are a simplified version of the old
           | English measures: the main remnant of different measures for
           | different goods in America is the Winchester bushel for
           | volume of dry goods, and the Queen Anne wine gallon for
           | volume of liquids.
           | 
           | The main difference between US customary measures and non-
           | metric British measures is due to the reform of volume
           | measures in the 1800s, which abolished the various old
           | bushels and gallons, and replaced them all with the imperial
           | gallon. (America does not use imperial units.)
        
           | azepoi wrote:
           | It was a mess
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Units_of_measurement_in_France.
           | ..
           | 
           | each town had variations
           | 
           | https://fr.geneawiki.com/index.php?title=Fichier:Instruction.
           | ..
        
         | robocat wrote:
         | And in modern times we have made Mega and Giga mean different
         | numbers when applied to memory, computer files, or hard
         | drives... I find this embarrassing and disturbing as an
         | engineer/technologist.
        
           | jalk wrote:
           | That has been fixed with mebi/gibibytes for the power of 2
           | variants - although it doesn't seem to catch on very fast
        
       | usr1106 wrote:
       | I wonder why Zentner is not on the list. People still used that
       | in colloquial talk in the 1970s. Well, being exactly 50 kg it was
       | already kind of ISO.
       | 
       | Measures of area are missing. I still remember very old people
       | talking of Morgen, whithout having any clue how much that would
       | be. Used to describe the size of a farm. I guess it was somehow
       | metric already, but I'm sure farms where measured centuries
       | before.
        
         | johannes1234321 wrote:
         | Because it's not obsolete. It's still in colloquial use.
        
           | anoncake wrote:
           | Pfund (500g) is on the list and also still in use. I think
           | it's more common than Zentner.
        
             | leipert wrote:
             | Depends on whether you tend to buy meat (only use case for
             | Pfund for me) or you work in construction / gardening etc.
             | where Zentner is still commonly used. At least where I
             | live.
        
         | FabHK wrote:
         | Yes, people still sometimes use the Morgen (=morning).
         | 
         | It's the area "tillable in the morning hours of a day by one
         | man behind an ox or horse dragging a single bladed plough"
         | (about 2500 m^2, though regional variations were 4000 or even
         | up to 10000 m^2).
         | 
         | Interestingly, the acre was also historically determined as the
         | area that can be ploughed in one whole day by a team of eight
         | oxen, namely 1 furlong x 1 chain or 4047 m^2.
         | 
         | Not sure what that says about German vs Anglo-Saxon working
         | hours or oxen...
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgen
        
           | majewsky wrote:
           | FWIW, I've never heard the word "Morgen" used in that meaning
           | outside of poems. Maybe this is a regional thing? I'm in East
           | Germany (born and raised in Mecklenburg, now living in
           | Saxony).
        
             | mgerullis wrote:
             | Never heard it either, born and raised in Stuttgart, living
             | in Berlin
        
             | groby_b wrote:
             | fwiw, heard it used regularly (NRW, "Bergisches Land") - in
             | the late 70s, by people 70+.
        
         | haunter wrote:
         | Has its own page though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgen
        
           | usr1106 wrote:
           | Not even linked... (Reminds of other Wikipedia projects I
           | have "ongoing" (which is really: haven't done anything for a
           | while) Cleaning up some confusing article splits, it's a
           | tedious task.)
        
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