[HN Gopher] M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box
___________________________________________________________________
M1 dev setup with a virtual Linux box
Author : kristiandupont
Score : 187 points
Date : 2021-04-11 08:50 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (kristiandupont.medium.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (kristiandupont.medium.com)
| Toutouxc wrote:
| Everyone is talking about running a separate Linux dev
| environment, but I'd actually love to run a separate macOS dev
| environment in a clean way (i.e. without messing with partitions
| for dualboot, especially on the M1).
|
| I get my stuff from Homebrew, just Rails + MySQL, no Docker, no
| fancy stuff. I'd love to have a fast macOS VM to run software I
| don't trust like Zoom or Skype and a second one to run my work
| projects, so they don't spill over my personal stuff, but AFAIK
| the virtualization story is still pretty incomplete on the M1 (or
| is there a way to run an arm64 macOS VM without a gigantic
| performance hit?).
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| If I recall, VMWare Fusion and Parallels can run macOS VMs with
| little or no speed hit, _under Big Sur_. Big Sur added GPU
| virtualization support so VMs aren't slow, previous macOS
| versions lacked this.
| alsetmusic wrote:
| Just tested Parallels latest beta on M1 and it couldn't find
| an OS on a Big Sur ISO that I'd just created. Doesn't appear
| to support virtualizing macOS on M1 yet.
| erwincoumans wrote:
| Parallels only supports arm images on M1, such as Ubuntu
| arm and Windows arm. No MacOS arm image as client.
| sscotth wrote:
| Correct.
|
| Pinned tracking thread:
|
| https://forum.parallels.com/threads/big-sur-
| installation.351...
| 0x426577617265 wrote:
| Fusion doesn't work on M1s.
| coopreme wrote:
| I've been looking for this for a while, not sure when or if
| it will get done. X86 emulation on an M1... I wonder if
| there will be a massive hit
| aidos wrote:
| Been dealing with this this week. It's about a 40x
| performance hit to run x86 via qemu in our estimates.
| my123 wrote:
| Qemu isn't representative of anything else perf-wise. You
| may want to use user-mode emulation too.
| aidos wrote:
| I don't entirely understand your comment (actively
| looking for solutions for these issues so all info is
| good).
|
| My initial attempt at getting a running system was to
| install an x86 VM via qemu / utm. It worked but was about
| 1 /4 speed of my old MacBook.
|
| Round 2 was to an arm64 VM via qemu / utm (utm is using
| qemu here, but I guess it's almost running purely on the
| M1?). That's blazing fast but I don't have everything I
| need compiled for it. So I'm recompiling what I can and
| whatever I can't I'm then using qemu user mode within the
| arm VM to run the x86 binaries. The VM itself is really
| fast, the x86 code, obviously isn't, but I've at least
| minimised the times I need the emulation.
|
| Not sure of a better approach, but as I say, definitely
| open to hearing what else I can do.
| my123 wrote:
| You should try running an Arm64 OS and then using ExaGear
| (Linux VM) or just run your x86_64 app (Windows).
|
| Forget about full system emulation, especially with
| Qemu's approach which doesn't leverage the host MMU.
| Emulating an MMU alone is very costly perf-wise. That
| means that you should use an arm64 OS and then use an x86
| compat layer on it.
|
| For Qemu's user mode emulation, it doesn't exactly
| provide good performance either. But it is still much
| better than full system emulation.
| aidos wrote:
| Isn't that what I'm doing?
|
| Mac OS is arm64, with an arm64 Ubuntu VM, then I'm
| running qemu in that for specific single x86 processes.
|
| To clarify, I'm using UTM to run the VM, so it's using
| qemu - but it looks like that doesn't give you a
| performance cost in itself.
| my123 wrote:
| Yes that's what you do, you might want to look at options
| other than Qemu though for more performance.
|
| (I assumed FSE from your 40x worse perf figure, which is
| a very bad case)
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Ahh, so it's just Parallels then. Don't yet own an M1 Mac
| myself, but saw Parallels had made the jump an assumed
| VMWare followed.
| erwincoumans wrote:
| Yes, Parallels runs great for Ubuntu arm on M1, both headless
| terminal and X11, since December 2020.
| AzN1337c0d3r wrote:
| IMO the graphics performance when running macOS Big Sur VMs
| under Fusion is better but still atrocious. Not anything like
| a native experience.
|
| Not sure about Parallels.
| Qerub wrote:
| 3D acceleration is not enabled by default for macOS Big Sur
| in VMware Fusion because it's not considered stable yet.
| It's possible to activate by tweaking the vmx file:
| https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/81657
|
| In Parallels it's on by default but you need to allocate a
| lot of RAM to the VM:
| https://kb.parallels.com/en/125105#section6
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Homebrew is sending analytics as well, FYI.
| jamroom wrote:
| "brew analytics off" from your terminal.
| balloneij wrote:
| I still haven't tried it, but what if you downloaded the iOS
| apps on the M1? Wouldn't it be more containerized if you ran
| those apps from the phone "emulator"
| philistine wrote:
| You're absolutely right, but I would assume Zoom has
| disallowed its iOS client from being installed on macOS.
| Since Apple closed the loophole allowing sideloading, we're
| out of luck on that front.
| saagarjha wrote:
| Just decrypt the app and run it.
| tlhunter wrote:
| > Working keyboard. And the feature of not having a touch bar is
| not only included but it's the cheaper option -- I would have
| paid money for that!
|
| I've been using Linux development laptops for the past decade and
| have had all of these benefits!
| fpoling wrote:
| The article author uses VSCode remote support to work with VM.
| This is not ideal from a security point of view. VSCode is huge,
| typically uses a lot extensions and all that has access to all
| local files and ssh keys. So for this reason I run VSCode inside
| a VM or a container with VNC server to provide X session. This
| works OK without GPU even on 4K screen while providing much
| better isolation.
| [deleted]
| okamiueru wrote:
| I'm curious what the author means by
|
| > I had two requirements for developing that I wanted to achieve:
| macOS UI, Linux-based dev environment
|
| What exactly is meant by a linux-based dev environment? Seems
| like the idea is to run the whole dev environment is in a virtual
| disk in a VM. I'm puzzled, but ok. It then goes on to set up
| Ubuntu Server in this VM, which is then used to host the dev
| environment.
|
| Wouldn't simple running a docker instance both be less
| cumbersome, far more resource efficient, and quick to iterate,
| than literally installing an OS on a virtual disk?
|
| ---
|
| To summarize, unless I missed something, this looks to explain
| that it is possible to run a VM on a MacOS. Add "M1" and it's the
| top post on hacker news? What's going on here?
| lawik wrote:
| "but the upside is that there is no noticeable IO latency
| issues like when running Docker for Mac"
|
| Docker on Mac can be dog slow. This is appealing to me.
| ccouzens wrote:
| > Wouldn't simple running a docker instance both be less
| cumbersome, far more resource efficient, and quick to iterate,
| than literally installing an OS on a virtual disk?
|
| On Mac, docker works by installing a VM- so the two aren't so
| different.
|
| I (not the author) prefer using a VM as a development
| environment, because at some point I'll want to run a container
| and nested containers are tedious.
| icoder wrote:
| That this is 'M1' is relevant for me personally, as my current
| Mac is dead old, I 'need' a Mac for iOS development, the Intel
| ones are a dead end and seem to run hot often, and it is
| unclear if all my dev needs will be met by the M1.
|
| Any piece of information that untangles this mess is helpful to
| me. Of course this may not be the same for others, but it could
| be 'what's going on here'.
| aidos wrote:
| We're going through the transition at the moment - tried to
| find info online but decided the only route was to try it on
| a real machine to see what works / doesn't work.
|
| Have built an Ubuntu 18 environment running through UTM
| (https://getutm.app/ - running qemu). Took a bit of
| tomfoolery where I had to install using a console only
| display and then flick back to full graphics to get the
| machine to boot.
|
| Use port forwarding to talk to the machine - haven't figured
| out a way to do bridge mode like I can with virtual box.
|
| We've got a bunch of crazy dependencies that I'm in the
| process of rebuilding. Most seem to be ok. There's a third
| party one we're a bit trapped with but we're running that
| emulated x86 within the vm. You can also use docker the same
| way within the vm.
|
| Performance wise the arm vm is blazing fast. Seems to be
| about 20x faster than an x86 vm on my old MacBook 2015. It's
| about 2x the speed of an 8 core graviton2. When running
| emulated x86 code, the speed drops to about 1/4 the speed of
| my old 2015 MacBook. Not ideal but in our case we've only got
| a single non arm dependency and it's not used often, so it
| works for us.
|
| It's a bit of a leap, and if you have more crazy binary
| dependencies like we do, you will have do to a little work to
| get things running.
|
| Having said that, the machine itself is _amazing_. It's a
| real joy to be on a machine with this level of
| responsiveness.
| goonogle wrote:
| I weep for you.
|
| As an alternative could you use React Native and borrow an
| Apple product during compile day?
| [deleted]
| madeofpalk wrote:
| Rebuilding your app in a completely different technology
| that you may or may not know seems like overkill for short-
| term computer woes.
| goonogle wrote:
| Fair point. I find Front End theraputic so it doesn't
| seem daunting to me.
|
| It's definitely a long term strategy, but people love
| eating Candy even if it gives you a stomach ache.
| oblio wrote:
| Docker isn't portable. Docker runs on Linux and only on Linux.
|
| All the Docker pseudo-ports just run a Linux VM on the host OS
| and set up Docker inside it, for you.
| cromka wrote:
| Think you forgot about Windows:
| https://hub.docker.com/_/microsoft-windows-base-os-images
| oblio wrote:
| No. Can you run those images on Linux? :-)
|
| Docker images are not portable, they run on Linux or on
| Windows, but they can never run on both.
| okamiueru wrote:
| Is this because you consider WSL2 to be Linux, and not
| Windows?
| oblio wrote:
| > Windows requires the host OS version to match the
| container OS version. If you want to run a container
| based on a newer Windows build, make sure you have an
| equivalent host build. Otherwise, you can use Hyper-V
| isolation to run older containers on new host builds. You
| can read more on Windows Container Version Compatibility
| in our Container Docs.
|
| https://hub.docker.com/_/microsoft-windows-base-os-images
|
| And WSL2 is Linux running in a VM on Windows.
| kristiandupont wrote:
| > Seems like the idea is to run the whole dev environment is in
| a virtual disk in a VM
|
| Pretty much.
|
| I had bad experiences running Docker directly on MacOS. The IO
| latency was unbearable. I know they are working hard on it so
| maybe it's better now, but this setup works well for me.
| throwaway4good wrote:
| I run Oracle DB (which is a scary piece of software) inside
| Docker on an Intel Mac. It runs perfectly fine.
|
| What exactly are you guys running that causes it to be
| "unbearable"?
| ccouzens wrote:
| Are most of the database's files within the container's
| filesystem (as opposed to a volume mount)?
|
| Most of the performance issues with Docker on Mac happen in
| setups where source code or other files are volume mounted
| from the Mac filesystem into the container filesystem.
| throwaway4good wrote:
| As far as I can see everything goes into the massive
| ~/Library/Container folder. No volumes.
| hopsoft wrote:
| I recently Dockerized a Rails development environment for working
| on an M1. It's gone well so far and may provide some guidance for
| other development workflows (YMMV).
| https://gist.github.com/hopsoft/c27da1a9fda405169994a0049575...
| ccouzens wrote:
| I think running your dev environment in a VM is the future on all
| platforms.
|
| As developers we trust so many different libraries. And it is
| important that they are safe when used in production code.
|
| But we shouldn't have to worry about accidentally installing a
| library which uploads our emails or our browser data. By working
| from a VM we can prevent that.
|
| The worst a malicious library can do from a VM is upload our SSH
| keys or source code (which is still bad).
| the_duke wrote:
| The need for VMs or containers for security (on end user
| machines) is the fallout of insufficient OS security
| mechanisms.
|
| A better solution would be a desktop OS with proper application
| sandboxing. Mac OS is taking many steps in that direction.
|
| Linux - as usual - has a multitude of solutions, all of them
| problematic. (AppArmor, SeLinux, Firejail, Snap, Flatpak)
| millerm wrote:
| I believe the real problem is that devs install random
| binaries, or modules, without any real concern for what
| malicious activities, even if unintentional, these artifacts
| may perform. Forget the fact that it's on the dev's machine,
| they move this stuff into production without proper security
| vetting.
|
| Many devs just blindly install things from npm, copy random
| snippets from GitHub gists, execute remote shell scripts via
| curl that they just copy and paste into the terminal because
| they read it in some blog post, and on and on.
|
| Anyway, just my worthless < 2 cents.
| wongarsu wrote:
| Microsoft tried to push for a better model in the Windows
| Store apps. But the world reacted with apathy. Now they seem
| to try to leverage their built-in hypervisor instead, for
| example with Sandbox [1] for temporary VMs with minimal
| overhead.
|
| 1: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-
| pro...
| m463 wrote:
| I believe VMs are not just for security - it might be the
| only way to run completely different operating systems (like
| macos on linux, or linux on windows, etc)
|
| Additionally, VMs might be a great help to complicated
| debugging. You can crash a VM without taking down your
| desktop. I'm not sure about things like kernel debugging, but
| it might be easier in a VM.
| fpoling wrote:
| A properly secured unprivileged Linux container is not
| particularly worse than VM from a security point of view, but
| its impact on performance is very minimal. The drawback is that
| one cannot use Mac or Windows as a host, but as long as one is
| OK with running Linux on machine and accessing, say, Windows
| occasionally via VM, this is a very nice setup.
| ccouzens wrote:
| My first attempt at this configuration was using a podman
| container (my laptop runs Fedora).
|
| It worked well, except that I occasionally want to run a
| container within my dev-environment. Running a container
| inside a container is possible, but not easy.
|
| I settled on running a Vagrant Libvirt VM. I do not know what
| the performance impact is- but I have not noticed either my
| laptop or the VM being slow.
| j1elo wrote:
| I'm just now learning about the container technologies that
| are alternatives to Docker. More precisely, LXC, in case you
| had it in mind in your comment.
|
| Do you know of a set of settings or tips to follow for making
| containers as safe as a VM?
| hiq wrote:
| I started doing exactly that.
|
| I've been reluctant to contribute to nodejs (e.g. electron)
| projects for some time, because I just don't want to run npm on
| a computer with any kind of remotely private data.
|
| Lately there were just too many itches to scratch, so I went
| for a VM replicating my normal setup (dotfiles etc.), and I
| just use x2go, locally. Quick and dirty setup which is good
| enough when used infrequently.
|
| My ideal setup would probably be closer to
| https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/docker-containers-on-the-
| desk..., but it's more setup than I could be bothered with at
| the time. Maybe one day.
| m463 wrote:
| I was going to say container or vm, but maybe ...
|
| Are containers a hack that will go away as VMs become
| lightweight or will containers replace VMs?
|
| I run proxmox, and when I first set things up I used VMs, but
| over time I moved most server kinds of things to containers.
|
| EDIT: docker is a special thing - creating an entire
| environment from one Dockerfile is pretty powerful.
| mikewhy wrote:
| I've been playing with this stuff on and off for the past few
| weekends, getting an environment set up on my M1 air.
|
| I ended up going with a VM, as it still allows (IIRC) the
| thin client to be thinner. There's definitely bits of
| containers I miss, like I'm back to keeping notes in a
| markdown file for commands that would be added to a
| Dockerfile, but I'm also not having to do weird things to get
| something like my shell history to persist.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| Actually I think VMs for dev are evil. I hope it's a stop gap
| measure until tooling like nix catches up enough. Running an
| entire seperate OS just for development is completely bonkers
| to me.
| ccouzens wrote:
| I don't know much about nix.
|
| Does it solve the security problem by preventing access to
| the majority of your home directory?
|
| Or solve it by only allowing you to install vetted libraries?
| rowanG077 wrote:
| You cannot access the home directory at all during a nix
| build.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Interesting, what about when your software runs? Is it
| still in a chroot or similar?
| rowanG077 wrote:
| It's not running in a sandbox. That's not the goal of
| nix. It's only a package manager/build system.
| linspace wrote:
| Running desktop applications inside a web browser is bonkers
| too. And the cloud. It's better to embrace the madness. I
| recommend watching Dr Strangelove.
| FpUser wrote:
| I have it an easy way I think. My development for Linux
| except some RPi projects is strictly limited to some high
| performance business servers. I use C++ with a couple of
| multiplatform libraries for such development. So I simply
| develop and do main testing on Windows using Microsoft Visual
| Studio C++. The big one, not VS code. When the time comes for
| release I just check out project on Linux, run build and
| tests and that is it. I do have Linux VM on my development
| computer (VMware, full Linux OS with the GUI and dev
| environments) in case Linux tests fail due to some compiler
| differences / whatever. During last 3 years I had to use like
| it twice for that purpose. I mostly use Vm's to test my
| server setup from scratch scripts.
| mpweiher wrote:
| I'd phrase it this way: it is completely bonkers that this
| _isn 't_ bonkers.
| mcny wrote:
| If you think that's bonkers, I'll give you an even worse
| idea: a dedicated desktop machine. I have a dell optiplex
| running Intel i3-2100 with 8GB RAM and 1TB Samsung 860 Evo
| SSD. No display. Fedora runs like a dream with dnf automatic.
| Use cockpit if you'd like.
|
| You can use your windows or Mac laptop with visual studio
| code to do web development. ng serve works as if you ran it
| from your laptop.
|
| The biggest drawback I can think of is if you ever needed to
| leave the house. Thankfully, I have no life so I don't have
| this problem.
| cassianoleal wrote:
| > The biggest drawback I can think of is if you ever needed
| to leave the house.
|
| Add ZeroTier to the equation and as long as you have
| Internet connection when you're outside the house you'll
| probably not even notice it.
| Tsiklon wrote:
| Having both your laptop and desktop on a WireGuard vpn with
| the gateway on your choice of cloud host would solve that
| problem, also it would solve having to deal with wandering
| IP addresses as you may find with a home internet
| connection
| rovr138 wrote:
| I see WireGuard and ZeroTier mentioned.
|
| I just use ssh. SSH to a VPS and map 22 to a port on the
| VPS.
|
| I have a really small VPS for this.
| mcny wrote:
| I think the reason they mentioned more complicated setups
| is because I'm using an actual old machine at home and
| unless you know what you're doing you don't want to
| expose it to the world.
|
| I think poking a hole on port 22 is mostly ok if you only
| allow key authentication and no password authentication
| but I don't know enough to give advice on security.
| rovr138 wrote:
| Just posting alternatives.
|
| I use a VPS with SSH. I have to ssh in, then I can ssh
| into the machine at home.
|
| For safety, key authentication and fail2ban would cover a
| lot. I mainly have the 1 port.
|
| If I need to expose another SSH port to the internet, I
| can do it, but yes, it would need extra protection since
| logs are coming from the machine ssh'ing in.
| hiq wrote:
| > For safety, key authentication and fail2ban would cover
| a lot. I mainly have the 1 port.
|
| Changing the port from the default 22 to something else
| is also recommended, if only because it makes fail2ban
| logs way less verbose.
| StreamBright wrote:
| I agree. We need something like Firecracker and quick boot
| times and something like Bottlerocket (immutable os) as the
| host. That woukd help my workflows very much.
| josephg wrote:
| I hear what you're saying, but the last time I worked through a
| linux VM on my mac laptop, everything got much slower. Our
| nodejs service took 2-3x longer to start up or to build. I
| think the issue was filesystem overhead for some reason. The
| future might involve working from a VM when we have CPU cycles
| to spare. But right now I need every iota of speed my computer
| has for my rust compiler.
|
| I'd much rather we solve the security problems using better
| local sandboxing for software, like how it works on our phones.
| That would help end users as well, and it would stop crypto
| ransomware and all sorts of other attacks. Or alternatively,
| run my dev tools from a solaris zone or a freebsd jail or
| something, both of which have no performance impact.
| the8472 wrote:
| Did you use a native filesystem inside the VM or a host
| filesystem remoted into the VM?
| JimDabell wrote:
| > the last time I worked through a linux VM on my mac laptop,
| everything got much slower. Our nodejs service took 2-3x
| longer to start up or to build. I think the issue was
| filesystem overhead for some reason.
|
| Docker on Mac has a lot of IO overhead. This is mentioned in
| the article:
|
| > The way I made it work is by having a full "dev
| environment" running virtually. That means that I check out
| repositories on the virtual disk and run everything from
| there. This has the slight inconvenience that I can't easily
| access those files with Finder, but the upside is that there
| is no noticeable IO latency issues like when running Docker
| for Mac.
|
| If you just want improved performance with bind mounts
| instead, you can use :cached or :delegated flags.
| bdcravens wrote:
| Since the earliest days of Docker for Mac, I've found
| docker-sync to be very effective. (I've haven't done much
| follow-up over time to see if using those flags matches
| performance) To gain more speed, add folders you really
| don't care about to docker-sync's ignored folders,
| especially if they are high churn.
| wdb wrote:
| I have been wondering if using VMWare Fusion docker
| compatible solution that even comes with their free version
| of Fusion has better IO/disk performance when running
| containers https://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2020/05/fusi
| on-11-5-now-...
|
| I think Fusion comes with a driver for Docker
| lovelyviking wrote:
| >I need every iota of speed my computer has for my rust
| compiler
|
| If so, why do you _need_ rust compiler in the first place?
| May be you don 't? May be it's _wrong_ compiler?
| tbrock wrote:
| This is why running something like VSCode on your Mac with
| the remote ssh dev setup is the best of all worlds.
|
| https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/remote-overview
|
| Virtualized Linux on x86 AND being able to run VSCode on your
| Mac for great fonts, WiFi, screen etc without having to fuss
| with drivers.
|
| Of course ssh and tmux also work well for this purpose.
| dijit wrote:
| Ugh, I don't want to descend into "that thread" again, but
| Wifi/Screen have not been an issue on linux (as long as you
| don't use nvidia) in over 10 years.
|
| Mixed scale DPI screens are not a problem if you use
| Wayland, which is basically the default now.
|
| Font rendering though? YMMV.
| josephg wrote:
| Linux generally works great. I'm typing this on a linux
| mint, using mixed scale DPI screens and generally it all
| works pretty well. I think all my hardware is fully
| supported - I haven't had to mess with drivers at all.
| ... Well, not recently. There were some zen3 bugs in the
| stable kernel releases a few months ago, but it all works
| fine _now_.
|
| And thats sort of the theme everywhere. Its super fast
| and I love it, and its mostly stable and mostly great.
| But tiny bugs shine through all over. I've been totally
| spoiled by Apple's spit and polish.
|
| For example, I get random graphics bugs after waking from
| sleep sometimes. Sometimes my mouse cursor is either
| invisible or for some reason duplicated, so I see a
| second stationary cursor hovering over my windows. And
| for some reason my second display doesn't vsync, so I get
| obvious tearing when I scroll or move windows around.
|
| I use a trackpad, and smooth scrolling works properly in
| most apps. But Firefox needs an obscure XInput
| environment variable to make it work. (That trick is only
| mentioned deep some a bug tracker). Smooth scrolling
| doesn't work at all in IntelliJ. Intellij also doesn't
| let me use the Meta key (Cmd / Start) as a shortcut
| modifier - so my muscle memory for navigation is all
| messed up and I can't rebind keys to fix it. I hate how
| Ctrl+C is copy everywhere except the terminal, which
| needs me to Ctrl+Shift+C instead. Etc etc. Forever.
|
| Its unbelievably responsive compared to my 2016 MBP
| though. If you haven't upgraded in awhile and you can
| afford it, its a fantastic time to get a new system. But
| linux on the desktop still isn't entirely pain free. Way
| better than it was a few years ago though.
| pta2002 wrote:
| Do you know what that firefox variable is? It's the only
| reason I'm not using firefox right now.
| callahad wrote:
| Probably MOZ_USE_XINPUT2=1 (note the '2' at the end)
|
| ...or use Wayland where smooth scrolling should work by
| default
| barrucadu wrote:
| Wayland is "basically the default now"? Since when?
| eknkc wrote:
| Nope, you people are living in a fairy tale. I'd love to
| have a decent linux desktop installation. I spent hours
| yesterday and gave up.
|
| I have a laptop running Ubuntu and connected to my 4k
| monitor in front of me. Has an Intel gpu. I do not even
| want to use multiple displays, I'm gonna go with the
| external only.
|
| Wayland can do fractional scaling but then VsCode,
| Firefox, Discord and whatever apps I tried became blurry
| shit. Firefox has an environment variable to fix it.
| VsCode has an experimental build and command line flags.
| I have no idea about Discord. I don't care if its the app
| developers fault. It is just plain bad.
|
| X11 can do fractional scaling but fonts are a little
| blurry for some reason and I have the worst screen
| tearing I've ever seen in my life. It is unusable.
|
| macOS and Windows do this perfectly. It is not something
| you think about. Windows has some weird looking apps here
| and there but the shittyneas is not even close.
| dijit wrote:
| I don't know what to tell you, maybe I won the lottery on
| hardware. (though, admittedly I buy computers with linux
| support in mind). Everything works completely flawlessly
| for me (even nice font rendering, though idk if I did
| something manual for that).
|
| For context, I have (currently) a precision 5520 laptop;
|
| I run arch with sway, I have a big USB-C 4k at work and
| 2*16:10 FHD Dell USB-C monitors at home.
|
| The only issues I have with linux is that I don't have
| Microsoft Office, and Zoom+Wayland is buggy as hell.
| [deleted]
| devit wrote:
| Don't use fractional scaling.
|
| Use the closest integer scaling and adjust default font
| sizes (and if needed other sizes like window title height
| or panel height).
|
| It's also best if you just don't buy monitors that have
| dpis that are not close to integer multiples of 96.
| eknkc wrote:
| Yeah I tried this but I used 1x ui scaling + 1.5x font
| scaling. It works but then all the buttons and stuff are
| tiny.
|
| Maybe I should try 2x gui scaling and 0.75 font size?
| Never occured to me that I could go below 1 on the
| scales, it might work.
|
| edit: 2x on wayland is still blurry. 1x + 2x font works
| but as I said, tiny buttons and stuff.
|
| Still, my point is; why the fuck am I dealing with this?
| whatever1 wrote:
| Because it's free and nobody is willing to put the effort
| (and pay the cost) to make a pleasing UX for desktop
| users.
|
| In mobile where there is market, Google did it.
|
| I stopped trying a couple of years ago (after I got a 4K
| monitor) to convince myself that desktop Linux is
| workable.
|
| Linux for desktop = console
| vetinari wrote:
| > Wayland can do fractional scaling but then VsCode,
| Firefox, Discord and whatever apps I tried became blurry
| shit.
|
| X11 apps do that. Firefox can run in Wayland mode, so run
| it in Wayland mode. vscode and other electron apps do not
| support wayland yet, so until they do (yes, they are
| taking their sweet time), you either need to run with
| integer scaling, or tolerate them being blurry.
|
| In Windows, the shittyness is much worse. Basically any
| Qt app is unusable with hidpi in Windows.
| Kwpolska wrote:
| > In Windows, the shittyness is much worse. Basically any
| Qt app is unusable with hidpi in Windows.
|
| In my experience, it isn't. On my setup (200% + 100%
| screens, Retina MacBook Pro in Boot Camp) KeePassXC,
| qBitTorrent, Qt Designer all look great on both screens;
| VLC has slightly weird fonts on the HiDPI screen but
| still works fine.
| vetinari wrote:
| Native Windows 10 on a threadripper machine; display at
| 175%. QGIS, FME completely unusable.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Ubuntu Mate just works, been using with two 4k monitors
| for over five years.
| derriz wrote:
| Not according to my experience with a top-spec Dell XPS
| "developer edition" with Ubuntu pre-installed about 2
| years ago. Not only did I have intermittant Wifi
| connection drops but I was never able to get multi-
| monitor mixed DPI to work at all with or without Wayland.
| Even closing the lid/entering sleep mode was broken - the
| battery would continue to be drained (at about half the
| rate of non-sleep mode but still unusable).
| chestervonwinch wrote:
| Was the sleep issue not resolved by a BIOS update?
|
| Tangentially, I want to mention that the archlinux wiki
| is a terrific catalog of machines and their known quirks
| (and sometimes, fixes for the quirks!).
| acdibble wrote:
| If you use fractional scaling on Wayland, Chromium-based
| applications will render blurry. Obviously it's a
| Chromium issue but it's been around for a while and is a
| bad experience.
| rathboma wrote:
| This just got patched, so electron apps are slowly able
| to update and fix this. VSCode has a beta version with
| the fix already
| seabrookmx wrote:
| > Wayland, which is basically the default now
|
| In Fedora maybe. Not in most distros. And recall many
| apps have to run under xwayland for compatibility so all
| of those apps won't support scaling properly.
|
| It's still not there yet.
|
| Battery life also takes a huge hit on the Dell XPS and HP
| Elitebooks I've tried, even after trying to apply some
| tweaks (not that I should need to). For this reason I use
| Windows+WSL on laptops even though I'd prefer Ubuntu.
| vehemenz wrote:
| This is pretty neat, but I think the overhead saved with
| complete remote development might be cancelled out by using
| VSCode instead of a JetBrains IDE.
|
| People are advocating remote development heavily, so there
| must be some *huge* benefit that I don't understand. So
| much so that people are willing to give up amazing features
| of an IDE. To get VSCode to a usable state requires 16
| third-party plugins, and you're left with about 1/3 of
| JetBrains functionality, in which the features aren't quite
| as good. YMMV I guess?
| fossuser wrote:
| I hope IntelliJ eventually figures out remote dev.
|
| Benefits are more obvious on massive code bases that take
| a long time to build, test (or really just do anything).
|
| IntelliJ will get stuck indexing forever and can be
| frustrating to use - having the code live on beefy
| servers that can run the computationally expensive bits
| faster can make a big difference.
| dangoor wrote:
| I think Jetbrains IDEs can do the same thing:
|
| https://www.jetbrains.com/help/go/creating-a-remote-
| server-c...
| fossuser wrote:
| I think what you linked to is different, but they
| recently announced working on a real remote dev option:
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2021/03/11/projector-is-
| out/
|
| Their old server config is just pointing to a repo I
| think, but isn't remote dev.
|
| I looked into this last year before their recent
| announcement and at the time they said it wasn't on their
| roadmap, but looks like that thankfully changed.
| cpbotha wrote:
| I've been paying for the JetBrains toolbox for a few
| years now, I'm a huge fan.
|
| However, JetBrains unfortunately has nothing coming close
| to the transparency and speed of the VSCode remote
| connection, with your source living only on the remote
| side.
|
| In cases where being able to work on remote, for example
| very particular configurations, or docker containers, or
| WSL2, this makes a huge difference.
|
| For me this is mostly Python and TypeScript these days,
| where VSCode has grown particularly strong in terms of
| IDE features.
| ak217 wrote:
| The huge benefit comes in when your project involves
| loading large datasets or talking to cloud APIs. Both
| cases can be a non-starter on a local Mac (no local disk
| space, no bandwidth, or the latency overhead of a 100 ms
| RTT vs. 5 ms RTT adding up over thousands of requests). I
| would also point out that Docker on Mac is far less
| efficient than Docker on Linux, since it runs a separate
| VM.
|
| VS Code Remote is a game changer. It's how IDEs should
| work. It allows you to run all the GUI chrome locally for
| responsive editing, while letting the remote do all the
| heavy lifting (including building, debugging, testing,
| and deploying). It finally overcomes the latency and
| other usability issues of using a wimpy local box to
| connect to a powerful remote box to write software.
|
| I never used VS Code much and otherwise prefer JetBrains
| myself. But the remote development extension changed my
| workflow permanently, and I now recommend it to all my
| colleagues who develop cloud/data intensive code.
| oblio wrote:
| And Jetbrains is working on a solution:
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2021/03/11/projector-is-
| out/
|
| It's still beta so they have a lot of work to do.
| GordonS wrote:
| Oh wow, I'm a JetBrains fan, but didn't know about this -
| if it delivers in the same way as the remote extensions
| for VSCode, it's going to be great!
|
| Have you tried the Projector beta yet?
| oblio wrote:
| Yes. It's based on toolkit remoting. Think RDP.
| crummy wrote:
| I have. It's very impressive but not ready for daily use
| IMO. (I tested it with IntelliJ).
|
| However, the 2012.1 releases now support running code on
| via WSL2 or SSH, which is closer to VS Code's setup.
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2021/02/intellij-
| idea-2021-1...
| stef25 wrote:
| > To get VSCode to a usable state requires 16 third-party
| plugins
|
| You mean this literally? It took just that one plugin for
| me, when experimenting with using another machine on my
| network as the dev environment.
| j1elo wrote:
| Believe them, VS Code is a strange beast in that it's
| really powerful and has a very flexible extension
| system... but that's a double edged sword because it lets
| the devs easily ignore features with the excuse that they
| should be done with a 3rd party extension.
|
| EDIT - child comment is right, the following paragraph is
| not true! I was writing from my phone and remembered
| installing this extension [0] but now that I've checked
| it is for counting _offsets_ from the beginning of the
| file, not lines and columns. Which I 'd concede is not so
| much of a basic functionality expected in any editor.
|
| [0]: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=
| ramyarao... And I mean *really* basic
| stuff... like a status bar label that shows the
| line and column numbers where the cursor is! Yes,
| you already need an extension just for that.
| jaredmosley wrote:
| I mean, that's just not true. The basic VS Code install
| will tell you the line and column numbers in the status
| bar without any plugins.
|
| Usually, the only plugins I need to install is the
| language server plugin for whatever language I'm using.
| At least, that works for Go and Python while Node and
| JS/TS work right out of the box.
| j1elo wrote:
| You're right. I've since arrived home and could check my
| VSCode, which led me to edit my comment above.
| vehemenz wrote:
| I meant to get VSCode to work as a decent development
| environment, more generally.
| hasmolo wrote:
| would you expand on this? i'm curious what i've been
| missing, and what possibilities there are!
|
| for me, a TS using node nerd, vs code does these things
| well: 1. ts language server 2.
| decent plugins (that i can commit to scm) 3. yarn 2
| support 4. nice debugger interaction
|
| is there more for me to have? is the core difference i
| use so much m$ stuff?
| vehemenz wrote:
| There are too many to list. I'd recommend using a
| JetBrains IDE to see what it has.
|
| Off the top of my head, VSCode lacks a decent code
| formatter and a "search everywhere"-type command palette.
| And the Git and database support is not good either, but
| that's kind of a given.
| aryik wrote:
| I love the gitlens extension personally - I find it to be
| a big productivity boost when navigating a complex/legacy
| codebase.
| danieldk wrote:
| Fedora Toolbox is quite interesting from this perspective. It
| does not provide a proper security boundary, since it shares
| the home directory, but it is really nice to make ad-hoc
| development environments. Since it is built on
| podman/buildah, it does not require the Docker daemon and can
| be used by regular users.
| ttiurani wrote:
| Personally pushing the edit, compile, run cycle time as low as
| possible has always been the reason I have stayed away from dev
| VMs. For 99% of computer uses a VM is fast enough but
| unfortunately for many programming tasks, it is not.
| nickjj wrote:
| > I think running your dev environment in a VM is the future on
| all platforms.
|
| We probably have a long ways to go before we get there and it
| does come with its own sets of challenges and usability quirks
| even if the technical implementation is good.
|
| For example, 8 years ago I used to run Windows 7 with xubuntu
| running in a graphical vmware VM using Unity mode[0]. Basically
| a way to seamlessly run graphical Linux apps in Windows. Each
| GUI app you launched from the Linux VM would have its own
| floating window that you could move around like any other
| Windows window. As an aside, this feature has been removed from
| vmware for years now when it comes to Linux guests.
|
| It worked well enough for then, and I spent 99% of my time in
| that VM (browser, code editor, everything) and I only used
| Windows for recording / editing videos and playing games to
| avoid having to dual boot.
|
| But even with vmware's really good disk performance there were
| performance issues at times, you're also splitting your memory
| up between your main system and your VM, it's not that
| efficient. Then there's little quirks like your main OS not
| really fully being able to integrate with files and apps from
| the VM, so you have to do hacky things to get apps to launch
| from a taskbar, search doesn't work because your stuff is in a
| VM, etc.. Plus you always feel like you're split between 2
| worlds, the main OS and the VM. It doesn't feel really nice and
| cohesive.
|
| To a lesser extent nowadays we have WSL 2 on Windows which is
| what I use. It solves a lot of the VM problems from above and
| running an X-server lets you run graphical apps very well, but
| you still feel like you're running 2 operating systems and the
| user experience suffers because you don't feel like you're
| running 1 streamlined OS.
|
| A prime example is having to put all of your files in WSL 2's
| file system to get good performance but having certain types of
| files there is an inconvenience or you may not want to do it
| because it doesn't make sense to put 100GB of storage files on
| your SSD. That happened to me because I have a podcast site
| which is mostly code, except for a ton of raw wav file
| recordings + mp3s. Instead of just having a git ignored
| directory in my project, I had to create a 2nd directory
| outside of WSL to store these files. There's many other
| examples like this too.
|
| I don't know what the Mac story is like, but I would imagine at
| minimum you're dealing with files being split into 2 worlds and
| will experience the unfriendly split OS feeling overall. Does
| Parallels let you seamlessly run floating windows across your
| VM and macOS?
|
| [0]: Here's a really old video of that set up
| https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/create-an-awesome-linux-devel...
| ccouzens wrote:
| It's a shame it didn't work out for you.
|
| > we have WSL 2 on Windows which is what I use
|
| My new work laptop runs Windows, so I'm interested in WSL2. I
| gather that it has good integration with Windows (eg you can
| type notepad and notepad will open)- which is convenient but
| removes any security boundary.
|
| > Does Parallels let you seamlessly run floating windows
| across your VM and macOS?
|
| I don't use Parallels, or Mac. But I believe so- they call it
| Coherence https://kb.parallels.com/4670
|
| I agree that not everything is as convenient. My papercuts
| were not being able to type `code .` to make a new VSCode
| window. And not being able to use the new tab shortcut in my
| terminal to make a new tab in the current directory.
|
| I've made a little project to solve both those issues for me
| https://github.com/ccouzens/ssh-nicety It works, but is
| fairly bespoke to my setup. It uses Unix Domain sockets
| (which probably excludes Windows). The only new terminal it
| can launch atm is gnome-terminal.
| nickjj wrote:
| I still do use WSL 2 btw. It's pretty good for general
| development. It's just not ideal due to the split file
| system concerns.
|
| If you decide to use it, I have another more up to date
| video with my whole WSL 2 / Docker / all the tools I use /
| etc. set up at: https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/a-linux-dev-
| environment-on-wi...
| sylens wrote:
| So he's basically recreating WSL but on an Apple Silicon Mac?
| hu3 wrote:
| > That means that I check out repositories on the virtual disk
| and run everything from there. This has the slight
| inconvenience that I can't easily access those files with
| Finder, but the upside is that there is no noticeable IO
| latency issues like when running Docker for Mac.
|
| Yes. Except on Windows it is easy to access WSL files.
| seabrookmx wrote:
| I used to use a setup similar to this before WSL was a thing
| (Hyper-V VM). The "accessing your files" issue trips people
| up but there's a trivial solution.. install Samba in your dev
| VM and mount it on the host.
|
| Unsurprisingly, WSL2 does something similar (it uses the 9p
| protocol instead of SMB though).
| fallenhitokiri wrote:
| To give an additional data point for people who are interested
| how a setup like this performs for daily use:
|
| I am currently running Parallels Tech Preview on the MacBook Air
| M1 and primarily use PyCharm (remote interpreter and deployment
| to the VM). The whole thing works better than expected
| considering it's still a preview release. Battery lasts around 12
| hours, sometimes an hour or so more depending on what else I run.
|
| I am currently working on a Django app. When saving while the
| debug server is running I can command tab to my REST client and
| make an API request and the change was already deployed and the
| server restarted. Despite dealing with a VM the whole thing is
| just fast.
| tbrock wrote:
| If you don't absolutely need a local VM I've found it much
| nicer to have a beefy ec2 instance be the Linux vm that you
| connect to in order to work in Linux on x86.
|
| Recently I've been doing this with VSCode which has a remote
| dev mode that works amazingly well. Before that I was just
| using ssh and tmux/screen which, as we know, also works and has
| worked for decades.
| fallenhitokiri wrote:
| I am curious what you find ,,much nicer" using an EC2
| instance than a local VM.
|
| When running remote VMs I usually run them on my ESXi box in
| the basement and VPN back home when traveling. This is
| especially nice when a project needs more resources than
| whatever device I'm working on has to offer. But beside this
| very specific use case I haven't personally found any
| advantage of this setup.
| aidos wrote:
| In our basic testing on M1 performance this week we've found
| that an arm vm on the M1 runs about 2x as fast as a
| c6g.2xlarge graviton2 instance. So you're probably looking at
| about $0.50 / hr to compete with the Mac.
| sdevonoes wrote:
| Does vagrant + virtualbox work on the M1s?
| lloeki wrote:
| There is some official claim somewhere in the vbox forums that
| vbox will never support ARM, so you might just as well consider
| it dead.
|
| I'm currently using Docker for Mac but will move to UTM (a.k.a
| a nice UI atop qemu-hvf) when I have some time at hand.
|
| Vagrant I only used for some other OS VMs (e.g smartos) but the
| base images are x64 so there's no chance it works well (if
| ever) on ARM either.
| varispeed wrote:
| > vbox will never support ARM,
|
| Is it because some kind of beef with ARM or they think it is
| technically impossible?
| my123 wrote:
| It's strictly x86 only, and wasn't written with other
| platforms in mind at all.
|
| A port to Arm wouldn't be really a port but a rewrite.
| [deleted]
| tmiller02 wrote:
| Vagrant works great on Macs with M1, the issue is finding a
| compatible 'provider' (VirtualBox, VMWare etc).
|
| For my personal projects I've been able to switch from using
| VirtualBox to Docker as a Vagrant provider, and it works well
| enough for what I need it to do.
|
| I created a cookiecutter template for Django projects at
| https://github.com/tmiller02/cookiecutter-django-react-ansib...
| that I use for development on my M1 mac using Vagrant + Docker.
| stef25 wrote:
| Docker makes things really slow, VirtualBox much better on my
| Intel Mac.
|
| Any idea if Parallels would work better on the M1?
| djs55 wrote:
| (I work for Docker on the M1 support) I'm glad it's working
| for you! There's a bug in the recent Docker Desktop on Apple
| Silicon RC build which affects some users of vagrant at the
| provisioning stage when the new ssh key is copied into the
| machine. It turned out that the permissions of `/dev/null`
| inside `--privileged` containers were `0660` (`rw-rw----`)
| instead of `0666` (`rw-rw-rw-`) In case you (or someone else)
| runs across this there's an open issue with a link to a build
| with the fix: https://github.com/docker/for-
| mac/issues/5527#issuecomment-8...
| tmiller02 wrote:
| Hey, thanks for all your hard work, it's much appreciated!
|
| Thanks for the tip, that's good to know. I'm running RC2
| and haven't come across any issues like that, although I
| don't run my Docker containers in 'privileged' mode when
| using Vagrant.
| varispeed wrote:
| I am looking for a quiet and fast machine for development. I've
| been trying to find a reasonable AMD laptop but all are out of
| stock and I think these will still have fans buzzing under
| heavier load. I personally hate Apple practices and I never
| clicked with macOS (was forced to work with it for many years),
| but if I could install Linux on M1 it would be hard to swallow,
| but I may consider using it. My Intel laptop has fans buzzing now
| even when it is idle. It drives me crazy.
| fanatic2pope wrote:
| Do you absolutely have to have a laptop? I realized years ago
| that I spend 99% of my time in a single place and have since
| built custom desktop systems for my primary development
| machine. They are faster than any laptop I ever owned, quieter
| and much easier to live with. And because I can put together a
| system to my own specifications I can end up with something
| that works perfectly with Linux. I haven't bought a Mac in
| years and even with their new ARM hardware I don't see enough
| of a benefit to go back.
| ansible wrote:
| Unless you are doing Linux GUI development, you have several
| options.
|
| 1. Low-end Chromebook (good battery life), remote server, VPN.
|
| 2. High-end Chromebook (there are a few i3 and i5 models with
| 8GB RAM), Linux environment.
|
| Are you often in locations where you don't have Internet
| access?
| phonethrowaway wrote:
| High end Chromebooks have i7 and 16 gb RAM fwiw, and run
| Linux VMs just fine.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| I'm in a similar situation. I want a new x86 laptop for
| development, but it's not super urgent.
|
| Some laptop built around the new Ryzen 9 5900HS cpu [0] seemed
| like an obvious choice. But although it seems like AMD has
| released it, I'm having trouble finding any actual laptops that
| have it as an option. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough?
|
| [0] https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-9-5900hs
|
| UPDATE: Maybe I just needed to wait a little longer: [1]
|
| [1] https://www.ultrabookreview.com/35985-amd-ryzen-9-laptops/
| gpanders wrote:
| You may already know this, but there is active work happening
| now to port Linux to the M1: https://asahilinux.org/
| rovr138 wrote:
| Initial support was also just merged a couple? days ago.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26746983
| ThinkBeat wrote:
| There are plenty of ways to mount a filesystem via SSH.
|
| Then the author could access the files via Finder.
| mikewhy wrote:
| Ah, echoes of the "why use this new Dropbox thing when I can
| use FTP, SVN, and some FTPFS" attitude. You're right, what
| you've suggested works.
|
| It would still result with VS Code running more on your client
| than it would when using VS Code Remote.
|
| Port tunnelling, while totally possible with an SSH command in
| a new terminal, is something VS Code just sets up automatically
| (and makes it easy to add your own).
| rcarmo wrote:
| I've been doing this with minor variations for a while now (from
| my iPad, from my Mac, my netbook, etc.) towards VMs in various
| places (your favorite flavor of cloud, my favorite closet, etc.).
|
| It has become remarkably seamless and trivial to switch any of
| the local/remote pairs over time, and definitely cleaner than
| managing various app runtimes on my local machines (I have cloud-
| config templates to bootstrap fresh Go, Java and Node boxes as
| required).
|
| edit: forgot to mention I'm posting this from another of those
| combos, a Windows VM I remote to from my iPad whenever I need a
| desktop browser
| dchuk wrote:
| Can you explain more about your setup, in particular the iPad
| part? What apps are you running on your iPad to facilitate dev
| work? And when talking remote instances, do you mean something
| like a droplet/vps?
|
| My dream is to code web apps from my iPad from the couch/bed as
| I sit at a big desk and monitor all day for work and I just
| want to chill in the evenings on something smaller and more
| comfortable.
| maxioatic wrote:
| Not OP but I use an iPad occasionally to remote in to a linux
| box and work on projects.
|
| I use blink for the terminal app and connect using mosh
| instead of ssh. I found that mosh handles the connection
| (reconnection) way better since iPadOS is pretty aggressive
| in killing the terminal app if I switch to a different app. I
| use also tmux on the server and just detach it when I'm done
| in case I want to work on it on my laptop or desktop. Overall
| works great, my only issue is that the 10.9" iPad screen is a
| _little_ bit too small for my liking so I don't do work like
| this that much. If I had the 12.9" iPad it would probably be
| something I use daily.
| rcarmo wrote:
| Well, I have an iPad mini :)
|
| https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2016/11/06/1930
| pojntfx wrote:
| I wrote pojde[1] a while back to solve that exact usecase,
| using my iPad (or any device with a web browser) to code from
| anywhere. It creates multiple isolated code-server instances
| on a remote server and handles toolchain installs, updates,
| authentication and TLS for you :)
|
| [1] https://github.com/pojntfx/pojde
| rcarmo wrote:
| Sure. I use Jump Desktop for RDP/VNC over SSH (with a Citrix
| X1 mouse) and Blink/Prompt for tmux sessions. A typical setup
| of mine has a remote container with Xrdp, Firefox, VS Code
| and barely enough window management to do full-screen windows
| and workspaces (typically blackbox).
|
| Remotes can be anything: I have a KVM host at home (that I
| remote to from my Mac for Docker dev) and plenty of Azure
| VMs.
| shoulderfake wrote:
| I dont understand this HN infatuation with apples new chip
| laptops. Ppl are doing everything under the sun to make it work
| in random ways that arent supported yet etc.
| sim_card_map wrote:
| The chip is insanely fast, runs without a cooler, consumes very
| little power.
| culopatin wrote:
| Who do you think turn unsupported things to supported?
| Developers. Developers who also happen to hang out at HN and
| like to talk about new developments around this chip.
| stef25 wrote:
| Personally I can't wait to upgrade my iMac to the one with the
| new chips as soon as they come out, but the fact that setting
| up a dev env is still a pain (whether it's Docker or a VM)
| makes me hesitant.
|
| I want to run multiple VMs at the same time and my current quad
| core iMac struggles. So I was thinking of getting a beefy
| Lenovo Workstation to use as a dev environment and use the
| VScode remote ssh thing. But in that case I don't really to
| upgrade my iMac.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _I dont understand this HN infatuation with apples new chip
| laptops. Ppl are doing everything under the sun to make it work
| in random ways that arent supported yet etc._
|
| (a) HN has people who like new technology.
|
| (b) This particular new technology is also very good.
|
| What's difficult to understand about it?
|
| People have been tinkering with WSL and Linux to have all kinds
| of things working "in random ways that arent supported yet
| etc", M1 is not that different...
| rograndom wrote:
| It's almost like the same people that try to make things work
| in random ways are the same ones who frequent sites like
| these....
| JoBrad wrote:
| It's new tech with a lot of promise, in a decent laptop.
| Experimenting to see what you can do with it is very solidly
| within HN's typical audience.
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