[HN Gopher] Whatever happened to IoT smoke alarms?
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       Whatever happened to IoT smoke alarms?
        
       Author : edent
       Score  : 10 points
       Date   : 2021-04-10 11:38 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (shkspr.mobi)
 (TXT) w3m dump (shkspr.mobi)
        
       | brudgers wrote:
       | They were and are a really fucking dumb idea.
       | 
       | A smoke detector has exactly one function.
       | 
       | Make really irritating noise whenever something is wrong.
       | 
       | And exactly two definitions of wrong: smoke and low power.
       | 
       | The incorporation of convenience features entirely defeated the
       | purpose of smoke detectors. It made them less likely to save
       | lives.
       | 
       | There are still IOT smoke detectors in the commercial space for
       | air ducts. And instead of noise, they signal a monitored central
       | station in facilities in working relationships with the local
       | fire service. Hospitals for example.
       | 
       | That's not your house.
       | 
       | The limited life expectancy of smoke detectors created an
       | attractive recurring purchase model for Nest. It over-ruled life
       | safety effectiveness. I suspect, but have no evidence beyond
       | circumstantial, that lawyers, regulators, and insurers all said
       | things that made financial accountants remodel projections.
        
         | heisenzombie wrote:
         | I dunno, I don't see a problem with progressive enhancement of
         | a dumb device: Clearly, don't control the screecher with a web-
         | connected microcontroller. But if it's a totally standard dumb
         | fire alarm that also outputs a voltage to a microcontroller
         | that sends an alert to your smart home platform of choice? I
         | don't see the downside. And if it has a 90% chance of alerting
         | you that your fire alarm has gone off when you're out of
         | earshot of the irritating noise? Why not?
        
         | seized wrote:
         | I disagree. My dumb detectors started false positives after
         | just a few years. Their mute/silence buttons didn't work so
         | burnt toast meant two minutes of screeching. No options for
         | remote alerts (without external smart hardware). Batteries
         | would only fail at night even after a few years. Or dust? Or
         | carbon monoxide? Never knew, because the beeps were a terrible
         | form of communication.
         | 
         | Smoke detectors SHOULD have some safe, reliable smart
         | technology. All my Protects have outlasted the simple Kiddes.
        
         | nojokes wrote:
         | I like the second kind of wrong. My smoke sensors start to make
         | random short bleeps. I have about 10 of them in our house.
         | Usually it will take at least annoying 15 minutes to locate the
         | culprit.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | seized wrote:
       | Nest Protects are still around and are amazing. So much better
       | than the garbage Kiddes I had before (a working mute/silence
       | button? What a concept!). The self tests and green Ok light at
       | night are comfort boosters. And the voice announcement of the
       | alarm level and location are great features.
        
         | LatteLazy wrote:
         | This is what I came here to post. So easy, so much function,
         | even with rechargeable batteries.
        
       | lights0123 wrote:
       | https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/04/when-to-rep...
       | 
       | > The life expectancy of smoke alarms is generally 10 years,
       | after which point their sensors can begin to lose sensitivity.
       | 
       | Every website says they should be replaced every 7-10 years
       | anyways, regardless of their smart-ness.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | They have a very small amount of radioactive material (~1.0
         | microcurie of the radioactive element americium-241) that is
         | used as part of the detector, and it does what you'd expect it
         | to do: it decays.
         | 
         | Consumer Reports can and should do better being a bit more
         | verbose for correctness.
        
           | Crosseye_Jack wrote:
           | A lot of them these days are photoelectric. They have a
           | "light sealed" chamber (basically vented in such a way that
           | ambient light doesn't have a path into the chamber but
           | "smoke" does (well smoke, dust and other airborne particulate
           | that is carried in the air)). Instead in the chamber you have
           | a light source and detector. Light is emitted from the
           | source, reflects of the side of the detector and onto the
           | detector. (Actually, thinking about it, I'm sure that they
           | can also work "the other way round", so instead of
           | particulate blocking the light, lowering the detection
           | levels, they can configured so the light source isn't
           | pointing at the detector and use the reflectivity of "smoke"
           | to relect light onto the detector. But you get the idea. It's
           | been far too long since I've taken one apart, time to order
           | another for fun. Anyways back to the post)
           | 
           | Dedicated ICs for this purpose can detect the slight lowering
           | of light detected over time by the receiver as dust
           | accumulates instead the chamber and adjust its trigger levels
           | accordingly.
           | 
           | Removes the need for need for the scary radiation source
           | warning label, removes the issue with the radiation source
           | decaying over time and I'm sure comes with that lovely side
           | effect of lowering the BOM cost.
           | 
           | Even though LEDs also decay, as it's duty cycle is no where
           | need 100% and is completely controlled by the IC I would
           | expect the components in a photoelectric smoke detector to
           | last much much longer than 10, but mine still came with
           | (iirc) a 10 year expiry date on them. I would say because
           | it's a safety device, an abundance of caution is applied so
           | other things ageing out have to be considered too (like the
           | power supply caps)
           | 
           | Big Clive has taken these apart many a time. If this one
           | doesn't cover the operation of them, just search for smoke
           | alarm on his channel and I'm sure it won't take long before
           | find one where he "tears down" the smoke detection chamber of
           | an photoelectric version. https://youtu.be/uzKAZCKjpU8
           | 
           | No idea off the top of my head on how heat detectors (best
           | near your kitchen so your toast doesn't trigger them) work as
           | personally I've never taken one of them apart (yet).
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | yftsui wrote:
       | Zigbee smoke alarms cost is okay, but still a few bucks more and
       | it add up if you have 10 of them.
       | 
       | I just enable Alexa to listen for smoke alarms and send me a
       | notification when I am away.
        
       | dustinmoris wrote:
       | > Could I build my own out of a Pi and some scavenged components?
       | Sure - but I can't be bothered
       | 
       | More importantly, no insurance company will cover costs from a
       | fire if they find out that you had a self built smoke detector
       | which didn't pass standard quality checks. I think in the UK
       | landlords must do a yearly smoke detector check as part of home
       | owner regulation so a self built device might have failed at that
       | point as well.
        
       | yetihehe wrote:
       | Does it have to be wifi? My company makes GSM smoke detectors, no
       | wifi required (and sim card with connection included in price).
       | 
       | https://ferguson-digital.eu/produkt/gsm-smoke-detector-fs2sd...
        
         | the_only_law wrote:
         | I've read about all sorts of alarms (I don't think smoke, but
         | fire and other emergency alarms) running on things like ISDN
         | before the term IoT ever existed
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | Will this work in the US with a US SIM card?
        
           | yetihehe wrote:
           | We didn't test it yet, but probably not. In UK (where the
           | author of article resides) yes. Sim card is soldered in.
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | Please consider the US market for future iterations (and a
             | SIM socket if it's a reasonable price on the BOM). I
             | believe Twilio even offers a global SIM with reasonable IoT
             | data rate pricing.
        
               | yetihehe wrote:
               | It was more about space, it's small module inserted into
               | that big detector. We would probably just make different
               | module for US. Worldwide module is in planning stage
               | after nb-iot takes off more widely.
        
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