[HN Gopher] Wix and Their Dirty Tricks
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Wix and Their Dirty Tricks
Author : luismanj
Score : 182 points
Date : 2021-04-07 17:59 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (ma.tt)
(TXT) w3m dump (ma.tt)
| geewee wrote:
| Hm, we've had our startup page hosted with Wix for a few years. I
| had no idea they were doing all of this shady stuff. What are
| some good alternatives if I'm looking to migrate? Is squarespace
| less shady?
| browningstreet wrote:
| I'd also recommend Strikingly.
| mike_d wrote:
| Wordpress.com?
| muglug wrote:
| Yeah, they're good AFAIK. I've seen a few former clients move
| their websites to Squarespace and be happy with it.
| wyxuan wrote:
| At the end of the blog post, Matt gives his recommendation to
| them and Shopify, so I guess so.
| goatherders wrote:
| Relax, it's marketing. It isn't "Shady" to take aim at
| competitors (or other solutions) when trying to get attention.
| zippergz wrote:
| "Relax" is right up there with "no offense, but" as a way to
| start a message to someone.
| goatherders wrote:
| I didn't use "but" and I don't care if it's offensive. The
| WP community clutches its pearls anytime the slightest
| offense takes place. The CEO of a multibillion dollar
| enterprise just took the time to write a post about a
| failed marketing campaign of a competitor instead of
| letting that failure stand on its own.
|
| He should relax. The person I was replying to should relax.
| Those offended in the WP community should relax.
| notananthem wrote:
| Yeah Matt writing this and trying to sound like "a little
| guy" is hilarious
| yawn wrote:
| Did you read the post? The "dirty tricks" also involved
| "stealing WordPress code and lying about it" and not allowing
| you to export your content.
| goatherders wrote:
| Not allowing content exports isn't shady. Happens on a lot
| of platforms and systems.
|
| Stealing code- there are remedies for that, which Auto and
| the foundation are free to pursue.
| austinkhale wrote:
| Agree to disagree.
| goatherders wrote:
| Fair enough. You might be surprised (or not) how much
| software has stolen bits and how much data isn't
| exportable in any useful format.
|
| But glad to see all my comments on this topic keep
| getting down voted.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| Webflow
| 99_00 wrote:
| What do you consider shady about it?
| thaumiel wrote:
| Wix sites is pretty common for me to see through my work. Though
| not in a positive light. Most wix links/sites I see are phishing
| links, so we have been thinking about blacklisting the whole wix
| domain to stop having that issue.
| jason_slack wrote:
| I feel like these types of public feuds only result in a pissing
| match where the consumer ultimately loses not the companies
| involved.
| vladmk wrote:
| Aka the open source customer winning, nobody likes Wix let's be
| honest. As an SEO they simply don't do well on getting traffic
| and should stick to high schoolers and college students who
| don't want to learn how to build a legitimate business.
|
| Wix = Yuck
| luismanj wrote:
| This is just weird: https://wptavern.com/wix-takes-a-jab-at-
| wordpress-with-bewil...
| swyx wrote:
| i was one of those devs quoted in the article. it felt weird. i
| still SUPER appreciate the headphones tho and feel bad that
| whoever ran this campaign now has egg on their face in part due
| to me. considered deleting my post but now its kind of an
| object lesson in marketing for better or worse.
| haar wrote:
| Just as a off-hand personal comment -
|
| If those are the Bose NC700, mine decided after a year to
| stop charging, and instead smell like melting plastic with
| smoke coming out of them.
|
| That in itself wouldn't be an _absolute_ terrible thing,
| except their customer support was _abysmal_.
|
| First of all they suggested I hard-reset the headphones, much
| to my surprise. When I emphasised that I wouldn't be plugging
| them in again and repeated the point about smelling melting
| plastic and smoke coming out, they then asked for pictures
| before initiating a replacement order process they'd
| suggested.
|
| I explained that there isn't any visual indicators on the
| headphones such as melting plastic as I'd noticed it
| immediately, but they insisted I send them photographs
| anyway.
|
| On sending them photos as asked (and clarified) they've since
| gone radio silent for 3 weeks, and ignored any more attempts
| to get in touch with them.
|
| So yeah... I won't be touching Bose products at all in
| future.
| yarcob wrote:
| I still can't get over the fact that "wix" is also a german slang
| term for masturbation.
|
| The first time I heard it in a german TV ad I couldn't believe
| it. The voice actor did their best to pronounce the name as
| American as possible, but it still just sounded like the setup
| for a joke to me...
| notananthem wrote:
| This is an awful campaign but this article is also hilariously
| tone deaf. Automattic is/was what, a $3BN company and this is the
| personal blog of its primary owner trying to say they're NOT in
| it for money?
| MangoCoffee wrote:
| what does that gotta do with what Matt said? wordpress is a
| open source software, if you don't like it go with something
| else. do Wix have to put out such negative attack-campaign?
| dawnerd wrote:
| The WordPress foundation is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization.
| Jackpillar wrote:
| Wordpress is a clunky nightmare but Wix is garbage as well.
| Support a YC funded startup and join the Webflow master race.
| tomComb wrote:
| I'm not going to support something just because it is YC funded
| and I have no interest at all in joining any master race. I
| gotta hope you are trolling.
| aspyct wrote:
| Oh wow, wix has always been bad, that's common knowledge. But
| that's a new low.
| MangoCoffee wrote:
| why do people have to bring up Automattic in this thread? i don't
| use wordpress but i appreciated it for being an open source
| software. if you don't like wordpress, there are a lot of
| open/close source CMS out there.
|
| Wix's negative attack campaign which confused people and really
| speak about it self should be the focus here?
|
| why you even attack an open source software? source code is there
| for you to review and play with. if you don't like it or it
| doesn't work for you then move on.
|
| i just don't understand the point of attacking an open source
| software. it feel like Microsoft attacking linux back then.
| goatherders wrote:
| I'm a WordPress guy but don't really understand Matt's post here.
| He doesn't like how Wix is trying to gain market share. Ok, fine.
| And? So what. Lots of companies market themselves in ways that
| some people don't like.
|
| Wix is a good solution for some people. WP is a good solution for
| some people. Weebly and Shopigy and Web.com and AEM and Google
| Pages and and and an can be good for different people.
|
| If Matt (and the WP community) don't like how Wix markets itself
| then don't use the service. I do know, however, that the WP
| community is talking about Wix a lot in the last couple days,
| more than they ever have before.
|
| (Also, enjoy the headphones b/c I promise Matt isn't sending you
| any)
| sidlls wrote:
| Wix isn't a good solution for anyone. I had experience with Wix
| websites before I knew what Wix was. Think local mom-n-pops or
| small-time one-person businesses who want a webpage. It didn't
| take more than one or two visits to such sites for me to auto-
| close any site that comes up as a Wix-created site. It's slow,
| ugly, and just an all around terrible experience.
|
| It all made sense once I discovered that Wix is a "no code"
| "solution" to basic web page development and not (just) a shop
| of poorly paid third-worlders half-assing it for crumbs. The
| quality of output is similar, for similar reasons (you get what
| you pay for).
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| Taking about this would be a very awkward conversation for
| Germans... There is also Wix Toolkit for Windows Installer I had
| to discuss some years ago.
| filmgirlcw wrote:
| This just seems like a bizarre and weird ad concept. And I
| totally don't understand the point of sending WordPress
| influencers headphones -- seems like a weird ROI to try to get
| them to post links to ads, when they could've just bought
| targeted advertising on Twitter, FB, Google. I don't get it.
|
| And the ad itself didn't really make sense to me either.
|
| There are plenty of ways to make an ad that makes fun of
| WordPress -- I recently had to help a friend who hasn't used it
| in a few years adjust to Gutenberg (which is a constantly moving
| target) and it was not fun. The way full-site editing works right
| now is a mess compared to the other hosted solutions
| (Squarespace, Webflow, etc.) and the need to try to find plugins
| that do what you want them to do, but aren't constantly spamming
| you you for upsells in the settings is another issue. Not to
| mention the ways you can ding WordPress over perceived bloat
| (even though that is arguably a host thing more than anything
| else).
|
| But this ad did none of that. Moreover, I'm not super sure who
| then think their audience is. Is this supposed to be for web
| developers who build on WordPress (which is who they targeted
| with the headphones), or regular users who want an easy way to
| build a website?
|
| Because those are two different audiences.
|
| The first audience wouldn't use Wix anyway -- there's a strong
| Shopify customization market and you could definitely build a
| business customizing Squarespace for people, but I can't think of
| any web developer or consultancy that would want to use Wix as
| the platform for clients.
|
| I would never in a million years recommend Wix to a client (if I
| were still consulting) or even to a family member. The stuff
| isn't that good and as Matt said in his post, you can't get your
| stuff out of it. It's trapped in Wix forever.
|
| But if the intended audience is normies who want an easy way to
| build a website, well, those people aren't following WordPress
| influencers, reading Hacker News, or knowledgeable about who Matt
| Mullenwegg is. So again, who is this even for?
|
| Big fail for me.
| edoceo wrote:
| As if Automattic doesn't disrespect their own clients (in similar
| or other ways). Matt should get off his high-horse.
| mkr-hn wrote:
| Can you expand on that with an example?
| goatherders wrote:
| Sure, accessibility continues to be an issue.
|
| The head of WP marketing - who has contributed a ton over the
| years - learned she was out of a job when she saw the
| announcement of a new marketing lead on social media.
|
| WordPress is great, but it isn't perfect. And for the CEO of
| the largest for-profit part of WP to liken a competitor to a
| roach motel or an abusive relationship is irresponsible and
| denigrates the mission.
| jessaustin wrote:
| I love the phrase "roach motel" when it comes to a service
| provider who won't bend over backwards to give me back my
| content as soon and as often as I want it. Does that _not_
| describe Wix?
| edoceo wrote:
| The issue that makes me most upset with Automattic is their
| trademark squatting policy. The rest is buried in notes from
| years ago. Heck, I've ignored this company since like 2015.
|
| WP is great, this vendor not so much.
| yosamino wrote:
| That is timely. I am currently making a manual copy of a wix
| website I inherited.
|
| It's one of the worst and sleazy pieces of software I have ever
| encountered.
| drummer wrote:
| I love WordPress. But Wix missed a good opportunity here to make
| fun of Gutenberg in their campaign. The Gutenberg plugin review
| section would write the ads all by themselves. They probably
| would have converted some WordPress users.
| Hoasi wrote:
| Even though I somewhat agree with Matt's points, I found the ad
| both tasteless _and_ funny.
| puppable wrote:
| As it happens, the last time I checked Britannica's article on
| Wikipedia, it was a pretty entertaining read. It was actually
| pretty hilarious counting how much of the article each section
| took up -- I think I counted about 2/3 of it being dedicated
| solely to bashing Wikipedia. It might have changed since then,
| I'm not sure.
| muglug wrote:
| I want to be a fly on the wall at one of the pitch meetings where
| Wix execs thought "this will definitely work in our favour".
| adventured wrote:
| You can bet they really don't care about that, they don't view
| the market that way. Wix is the Oracle of ... whatever you call
| the gnarly pile of garbage that their dev product is supposed
| to represent. They're pursuing technologically ignorant small
| businesses / organizations and intentionally seeking to trap
| them as much as possible (and you can bet they'll financially
| drain their captives in ever-worsening ways as time goes on).
| datavirtue wrote:
| They way you describe them makes it sound like a real
| synergistic aquisitions for Intuit.
| preommr wrote:
| I mean, it probably will.
|
| Wix doesn't target developers or anyone tech-savvy, they target
| average people that see an ad, and then buy into it.
| rijoja wrote:
| If someone had asked me yesterday if I could build them a
| webpage or if they should use Wix I would have say I'm sure
| Wix is fine. Today I would strongly advise against it.
|
| The argument of not being locked in the basement is really
| important for small businesses which is why Wordpress got so
| huge in the first place.
|
| Having the ability to hire one dev and if that doesn't work
| out being able to go to another is a major selling point for
| a small business.
|
| Good luck porting your wix site if they turn evil and yeah
| that already seems to have happened.
| gsuuon wrote:
| I had almost exactly that conversation recently. Now I wish
| I'd done my homework more, since that conversation led to a
| 1 year subscription. They've also already ran into the
| limits of the editor as a casual user on the premium plan.
| My first thought after finding out about the lock-in was to
| advise them to get a refund, but that trustpilot page Matt
| linked makes me believe it would just be a waste of time.
| thrower123 wrote:
| Whenever I see Wix, I think of the installer toolkit ->
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiX
|
| I never cottoned to the fact that that is an entirely different
| outfit from the website people ->
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wix.com
| josefresco wrote:
| Wix clearly doesn't understand their audience. I run a WordPress
| shop and am exposed to clients & potential leads who have Wix
| websites.
|
| They're mostly artists, very new business owners, & volunteers
| (tasked with building a website for their organization) and all
| are very, very un-tech savvy. Converting power users isn't even
| remotely possible for a walled-garden platform built for the
| technically unsophisticated.
| datavirtue wrote:
| It's the Quickbooks of websites. Intuit probably owns them.
| avipars wrote:
| They stole wordpress code, so much for being a trusty israeli
| company
| muglug wrote:
| "Stole" is doing a lot of work here. They copied strictly-
| licensed open-source code, violating the terms of the license
| in the process.
| adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
| Which according to current copyright law is theft.
| rsstack wrote:
| According to current copyright law it is not theft. It is
| "infringement", a separate legal term. It is also generally
| not a criminal offense but a civil offense, unlike theft.
| lostcolony wrote:
| You wouldn't download a car, would you?
|
| I kid; point is, while all the technicalities being
| thrown around are lovely, the fact you -can't- literally
| steal code probably does mean that those using the term
| 'steal' do in fact mean IP infringement.
| muglug wrote:
| I think there are times where "steal" is appropriate --
| where the code is in some sort of silo, and someone
| exfiltrates it. Anthony Levandowski was charged with
| theft of trade secrets for making a copy of Waymo's code.
| jessaustin wrote:
| The next time I get a DMCA takedown notice, I'm going to try
| some of this quibbling about the word "stole". I'll let you
| folks know how it turns out...
| m463 wrote:
| Side observation - that is a very cool domain name.
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