[HN Gopher] I Teach Machiavelli Through His Letters
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I Teach Machiavelli Through His Letters
Author : Tomte
Score : 118 points
Date : 2021-04-05 08:39 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.exurbe.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.exurbe.com)
| sethish wrote:
| I can't recommend the author's novels highly enough. Terra
| Ignota, the first book being Too Like the Lightning.
| Symmetry wrote:
| Basically, what happens when a historian imagines a world 400
| years in the future as different, socially, as we are from 400
| years in the past.
| Banana699 wrote:
| One of the most realistic and "real" worlds from a socio-
| historical pov I've ever read.. Palmer's world building does
| for history and sociology what peter watts does for biology
| and neuroscience.
| roflc0ptic wrote:
| And the fourth and final one is coming out in August! I've
| started reading them out loud with my girlfriend. They're
| actually a little too complicated sentence-structure wise to be
| great for reading out loud, but whatever. It's lovely
| introducing her to Mycroft Canner.
| ffhhj wrote:
| Interesting thread, regarding political philosophy is there some
| theory in which the objectives for a government are elected
| first, and then people is elected to work on those objectives
| instead of their own political party ideals?
| Sniffnoy wrote:
| I mean, if you keep that first election but replace that second
| election with prediction markets, then you're roughly
| describing Robin Hanson's idea of futarchy!
| martyvis wrote:
| What's the 30 second elevator pitch on why I should know about
| Machiavelli? (Classical literature ignoramus here)
| AAmarkov wrote:
| You should know about Machiavelli so you can understand how
| misunderstood he is in pop-culture.
| billfruit wrote:
| Machiavelli is fine, but is there more to be learned from
| Castiglione than him?. Reading Manzoni, thats the view I get.
| wolfhumble wrote:
| Very interesting article.
|
| Reading this part . . . :
|
| "And he did go back to Rome, and then Della Rovere made him paint
| the Sistine Chapel ceiling knowing Michelangelo hated painting,
| basically as punishment for trying to run away. I'm not
| exaggerating."
|
| . . . made me think of a quote by El Greco I once read:
|
| "When he was later asked what he thought about Michelangelo, El
| Greco replied that "he was a good man, but he did not know how to
| paint", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Greco#cite_ref-
| Scholz20_43-...
|
| I thought that sounded almost like jealousy from El Greco's part
| and "how can you even say that about THE Michelangelo", but maybe
| he had a point after all (but what would I know :-)?
| duxup wrote:
| I wonder if El Greco comment on Michelangelo was less a general
| statement and more philosophical or something more detailed?
|
| I find sometimes folks who are deep into a topic make
| statements about others who are similarly deep in that topic
| that sound very broad and general to me ... but really are more
| focused / about other things.
| wolfhumble wrote:
| Lacking knowledge in this area, it's hard to say; might have
| to do with the painting techniques he was using?
|
| As contemporaries, although El Greco was only in his early
| twenties when Michelangelo died, I guess one would have less
| reverence for a fellow artist as one might have now many
| hundred years later.
| pitt1980 wrote:
| For those not familiar with that blog,
|
| She previously wrote a long series on Machiavelli which was a
| great deep dive into his life
|
| If interested start here: https://www.exurbe.com/machiavelli-s-p-
| q-f/
| xNeil wrote:
| Thank you very much!
| ptrklly wrote:
| Fun to see Ada Palmer posted here! One of my favorite essays by
| her is The Shape of Rome, which tells Rome's history through its
| architecture. It is a fascinating history of course but her
| writing is what stood out to me: it felt fast, almost breezy,
| while still conveying the sense of just how much time had passed
| between events.
|
| I wish more history writing were like it, and if folks have
| recommendations I'd appreciate it.
|
| https://www.exurbe.com/the-shape-of-rome/
| throwaway59553 wrote:
| If you enjoy reading any of Machiavelli's books or letters, I
| highly recommend Frederick the Great book called "Anti-Machiavel"
| (as well as his other books), for a different POV
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Machiavel
|
| https://archive.org/details/AntiMachiavelFriedericktheGreat/...
| [deleted]
| ZanyProgrammer wrote:
| Obligatory Quentin Skinner link: https://youtu.be/gH-NxQmf87k
| BitwiseFool wrote:
| I wish they would upload a version with better sound. My
| speakers are on full blast and my audio is set to 100% and I
| can barely hear him.
| Emma_Goldman wrote:
| I had the opportunity to hear Skinner lecture at Cambridge, and
| he is easily the best public speaker I've encountered. Made all
| the more obvious by the fact so many historians at that
| university are stuffy antiquarians. Skinner was kind, humble
| and brought subjects that I would normally find boring
| flourishing into life.
| throw1234651234 wrote:
| I got absolutely nothing out of Machiavelli - he is on par with
| Greene's "48 Laws of Power" in terms of contradicting himself all
| the time and not having clear direction. Not only that, but his
| advice is absolutely useless to someone not already "close to/in
| power". And yes, it was written as advice to Italian princes, but
| my qualm is with people pushing it as a must read book.
|
| The only, literally the only, part that sticks out as useful is
| "Doll out bad news in one portion, good news in spaced-out
| portions."
|
| As far as "classic" general texts go, Sun Tzu is ages ahead of
| him in the Art of War in terms of advice that you can actually
| follow.
| exolymph wrote:
| It might help to give some concrete examples of Machiavelli not
| meeting your standards.
| Igelau wrote:
| Everyone knows him for the Prince and the fact that it made his
| name an adjective. It's worth your time to browse his Discourses
| on Livy. It's like a troubleshooting guide for republics.
| sremani wrote:
| Machiavelli in Context is amazing Audiobook/Great Courses, that
| points out this exact thing.
|
| The Prince is most famous but certainly Discourses on Livy is
| his biggest work.
| jesuslop wrote:
| The Prince is surprisingly easy a read and somewhat house-of-
| cardlish, let me reply here to take note on your dig-deeper
| suggestions for when I'm over it.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| lordleft wrote:
| I love the Discourses! It's always surprising to discover his
| deep sympathy for the republican (i.e. non monarchical) mode of
| political rule...his excoriation of Caesar is always a good
| read.
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