[HN Gopher] Against Hickelism
___________________________________________________________________
Against Hickelism
Author : amrrs
Score : 38 points
Date : 2021-04-04 21:35 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (noahpinion.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (noahpinion.substack.com)
| retrac wrote:
| I do wonder if there will ever be a reevaluation and integration
| of the Soviet Union in Western thought, one free of the context
| of needing to prove ourselves better than that system.
|
| For all its horrors and atrocities, the Soviet economy grew, and
| worked. Oh, not very well. But better than 0% growth. In 1910 the
| average Russian was an illiterate peasant. In 1980 the average
| Russian was a literate urban dweller with electricity and indoor
| toilets on their floor with twice the life expectancy of their
| great-grandparents.
|
| This is, again, not intended as a defence of that monstrous
| system. It can be condemned on purely moral grounds alone, in my
| opinion. And it was not as efficient by most analyses, either.
| Still, I bring it up because, as a counter-example, it
| complicates both of the commonly made assertions mentioned in the
| article: that poverty hasn't decreased in any meaningful sense,
| and that the capitalist system is the only means of greater than
| 0% growth in material production.
| lupire wrote:
| The Soviet economy improved early in 20th Century, as did most
| thanks to industrialization, but by the end of the Cold War the
| economy was largely an illusion outside of the military
| spending. That's _why_ the Cold War ended -- non-
| "revolutionary" leaders realized the Soviet Communist system
| was an utter failure economically.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Nobody is arguing that a market economy is always and
| everywhere "the only means of above-zero growth". But just look
| at the growth of Mainland China before and after the market
| reforms by Deng. It's obvious that they've made a difference.
| And Deng certainly had no need to "prove his system better"
| than what was there before, on the contrary he stuck to the old
| maxim: White cat, black cat, as long as it catches mice it's a
| good cat.
| wffurr wrote:
| One might argue that the vastly increased computing power and
| big data systems of today have made the Soviet central economy
| more feasible than ever. Gigantic multinational firms generally
| operate internally as a planned economy in and of themselves in
| just such a fashion. This is often cited as a reason for firms
| to grow in the first place; efficient allocation of capital and
| resources within the firm.
|
| The trick is to subject that system to democratic control in a
| sustainable way.
| lupire wrote:
| Guardian is so predictable as a source of bad takes in its mad
| rush for leftist credentials.
|
| When Donald Trump was elected they saw dollar signs in becoming
| the paper of leftist resistance.
|
| And I say this as someone with rather left-wing economic beliefs,
| pro-reparations, tax the rich, etc.
| lupire wrote:
| When people switch from barter to market (currency), does that
| count as "making more money" and poverty reduction in these
| stats?
|
| Some getting a job as a cleaner but paying someone else to cook
| their food, and paying for the commute, isn't a real improvement
| in quality of life and reduction in poverty. Specialization and
| economy of scale is great, but at the low end of labor skill,
| "dollarizing" work at the expense of home economics and barter,
| is a sham.
| _Microft wrote:
| You might also want to read this thread by Max Roser, the one
| behind ,,Our World in Data" about why he is done with Mr. Hickel:
|
| https://www.twitter.com/MaxCRoser/status/1378730932308471809
|
| If you prefer blog-style formatted text over the Twitter UI, look
| here:
|
| https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1378730932308471809.html
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-04-04 23:00 UTC)