[HN Gopher] Egypt holds grand procession of ancient mummies in C...
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Egypt holds grand procession of ancient mummies in Cairo
Author : KoftaBob
Score : 76 points
Date : 2021-04-04 14:07 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.axios.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.axios.com)
| systemvoltage wrote:
| Egypt is being puppeted by China, vast amounts of money is being
| poured in to elevate its image, culture and eliminate poverty in
| return of the massive surveillance state and iron grip from
| unpayable loans.
|
| Checkout the "New Administration Capital". All digital currency,
| everyone is watched and monitored. Even the name is straight up
| unapologetically dystopian:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Administrative_Capital
| simlevesque wrote:
| > The new capital of Egypt is yet to be given a name.
|
| Did you read your link? You are talking about it's "dystopian
| name" but it's a placeholder, which every project has at some
| point. Sounds like fearmongering.
| [deleted]
| masterphilo wrote:
| > Egypt is being puppeted by China
|
| Sources? And depending on your definition of "puppeted", it
| looks like pretty much everyone on the world stage is
| "puppeted" by China.
| xenihn wrote:
| I mean, yes, but that's not a bad thing. We aren't going to
| be able to stop catastrophic climate change without
| authoritarianism.
| xyzelement wrote:
| China has brought on more coal powerplant last year than
| exist in the west on total. What are you talking about?
| mrlonglong wrote:
| Coal in China supplies 53% of its electrical power. It is
| dropping slowly though. Hopefully they will succeed. Air
| pollution from those coal power plants is absolutely
| atrocious.
| systemvoltage wrote:
| There are plenty of sources if you search for it:
|
| https://www.reuters.com/article/egypt-china-financing-
| idUSL5...
| astrea wrote:
| What's dystopian about the name? It's a new capital for the
| administration (ie government). Sounds like a pretty no-
| nonsense name to me
| [deleted]
| mc32 wrote:
| Looks like most people are enthusiastic about this parade as they
| should be... However I can't shake off the Genesis melody "The
| Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging" as I read about it.
| Ozzie_osman wrote:
| (Posting as top level since this is getting discussed in several
| sub threads)
|
| I'm Egyptian (though haven't lived there in over a decade) . Many
| of us loved this display. We are proud of our heritage and proud
| that the world can see and appreciate it the way we do.
|
| That said, many of us also have qualms about the local politics
| and the authoritarian way the country is being run. It's possible
| to both appreciate this display and be critical of the politics.
| It's not easy because the figureheads of those politics were so
| heavily involved here. Good on them for at least doing this piece
| well.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| The interesting thing is that corruption was also rife in the
| past as well, but like birthing pain, it is mostly forgotten as
| it morphs into memory.
| thisisauserid wrote:
| Using the word "heritage" seems odd here. Would anyone who
| moved to into this land qualify as inheritors?
| EdwardDiego wrote:
| I'm a Pakeha Kiwi and proud of the Maori heritage of our
| country, even though it's not my direct heritage.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| I imagine there's like a 99% chance the poster is related to
| every mummy shown, both because it's been millennia and
| Egyptian nobility surely married throughout what became
| Persia.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| This inner conflict between loving our country and history vs.
| being dismayed about its current leadership seems to be fate of
| almost everyone around. Even in democratic countries. We have
| less violence, but the extent of bribery, cronyism and
| incompetence that is documented by the media every day is
| disheartening.
| avl999 wrote:
| It's like we haven't learned anything from horror movies.
| Ozzie_osman wrote:
| > Egypt held a five-mile procession of 22 ancient mummies in
| Cairo, as they were moved from a museum where they'd been for
| over a century to the new National Museum of Egyptian
| Civilization Saturday night.
|
| This is not to be confused with the Grand Egyptian Museum, which
| is due to open later this year
| (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Egyptian_Museum). The
| GEM's opening has been highly anticipated (and delayed) for
| years. Actually even a lot of my Egyptian friends thought the
| mummies were being moved to the GEM.
| [deleted]
| notananthem wrote:
| Interesting choice of only using light skinned actors, and hiding
| working class neighborhoods. Sounds like they're taking tips from
| the best in the game, good ol' USA.
| henvic wrote:
| Awful. Poor people are having tax money stolen from them to move
| head-of-state mummies... Even long-dead mummies are making
| people's lives miserable, lol.
| masterphilo wrote:
| Why is celebrating one of the oldest civilizations in human
| history, their own nation's history, considered "awful"?
|
| I thought the whole thing looked beautiful. I hope to visit
| someday when the area is fully developed.
|
| I suspect your complaint was targeted at Sisi's management of
| the country, in which case this is a complete aside.
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| henvic's comment was clearly said in jest.
| xkeysc0re wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| Did you miss the "lol"?
| masterphilo wrote:
| Thanks. I guess years of browsing HN have made me immune
| to the significance of the lolz.
| yk wrote:
| Funny enough, Herodotus reports in 500 BCE that that is pretty
| much how Egyptians felt at the time about the pyramids.
|
| [Edit:] Corrected 1000 year off typo...
| CaptainJustin wrote:
| I would normally agree with a statement along these lines.
| However I would like to think that this came out of the
| marketing budget for the tourism sector. I bet tourism is
| significant to Egypt's economy.
|
| Then I think the question becomes: Was this an effective
| marketing event? Who knows. But considering someone from South
| Africa is discussing it with someone in the Netherlands on HN
| perhaps it worked out.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| Absolutely. We do not normally discuss Egypt here in CZ, but
| this video is spreading virally across the social networks.
|
| The post-Covid summer is inching closer and there is a lot of
| pent-up demand for tourism and discovery of new places. I bet
| some people are not going to forget this show.
| egeozcan wrote:
| > The post-Covid summer is inching closer
|
| Where I'm living (Germany), this sounds like fantasy.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| There is a good chance that by August we will be over 50
| % vaccinated and there will be a late vacation season.
| morelisp wrote:
| If true, I should definitely have left Berlin for Prague
| a couple years ago...
| wl wrote:
| The Cairo Museum was not built intelligently or well and was
| falling apart even a century ago. Much priceless material
| culture was destroyed in basement flooding in the years before
| the Nile was dammed. John D. Rockefeller Jr. even offered to
| replace it in the 1920s, redirecting his funds to Jerusalem
| after politics and the control he demanded torpedoed the
| project. The mummies should have been moved to a more
| appropriate location long ago. I don't begrudge the Egyptian
| state a little bit of pomp and glitter as they do what they
| should have done long ago.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| A celebration of a pre-Islamic civilization like that must be
| very, very offensive to the local Salafists.
|
| (Let them gnash their teeth and let us hope they won't be able to
| generate an Egyptian equivalent of Khomeini. The last Persian
| Shah liked to celebrate ancient pre-Islamic history of Persia as
| well, culminating with the great international party in the ruins
| of Persepolis.)
| Ozzie_osman wrote:
| Not that I agree with Salafists at all, but it's odd that many
| people's reaction to this is to mention them.
|
| To a large degree, local so-called Salafists (at least the
| politicized ones) have been largely silenced, imprisoned, and
| otherwise "dealt with" since 2013.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| I know what happens to prominent Salafists under Sisi, but
| that is no guarantee of future development.
|
| Most of them have survived with their heads temporarily down,
| but not off. A massive reservoir of angry manpower waiting
| for the moment that the regime starts going wobbly.
|
| If the history of totalitarian movements in Europe can be
| used as an analogy, the question of "who is going to rule
| Egypt in twenty years" is far from settled.
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| I spent two months hitchhiking around Egypt in 2008, after
| coming down from Europe and passing through the countries
| along the way. I found Egypt to be by far the most Salafist-
| leaning of the countries I passed through, far stricter in
| its understanding of Islam than Turkey or the Levant. When
| mentioning the Ancient Egyptian past to the average Egyptian
| (i.e. not some Cairo elites), the response was usually that
| even talking about all that was _haram_.
|
| So, when a person's firsthand experience of Egypt was like
| that, naturally one of the first things that will come to
| mind is "Hmm, I wonder how the local Egyptian people felt
| about this procession." I do find it hard to believe that the
| population has become less strict in its interpretation since
| 2013, even if their room for applying their beliefs
| politically has narrowed.
| Ozzie_osman wrote:
| Sorry you had that experience. I grew up in Egypt and don't
| think it's representative. Some regions might be like that,
| or you may have gotten unlucky.
|
| A non-trivial part of the Egyptian population is employed
| in tourism. It's not all about Ancient Egypt, but that's
| the main attraction, so many people not only are OK
| discussing it, they're making a living out of it. Ancient
| Egyptian history is taught in public school curriculum,
| etc. Even the national soccer team's nickname is the
| "Pharaohs".
| dotancohen wrote:
| Do contemporary Egyptians consider the current Egyptian
| state to be a successor state to the ancient Egyptians?
| Do they consider their culture to be a development of the
| ancient culture?
|
| Serious question from someone who has been to Egypt but
| not fully digested the culture or the people. Thanks.
| Ozzie_osman wrote:
| Not really. Keep in mind after the Ancient Egyptians,
| Egypt was ruled by many empires (Roman, Greek, Islamic,
| British). Egypt basically only got its independence after
| thousands of years of foreign rule in the last century.
|
| So it's viewed as part of the country's heritage but not
| necessarily culture or state.
| dotancohen wrote:
| I see, thank you.
| doktorhladnjak wrote:
| It's complicated. Copts (about 20% of the population) in
| Egypt are the most direct descendants of the ancient
| Egyptians. Greeks, Arabs, Ottomans, British, French
| invaded and took control at various points in between.
| Arabs brought Islam and Arabic language to Egypt with
| most Copts being Christian and no longer speaking Coptic
| (a language descended from ancient Egyptian) today,
| there's additional tension and politics.
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| I feel my experience was representative, because Egypt
| clearly consists mainly of a somewhat freethinking elite
| around the capital and a conservative proletariat within
| the capital's poorer districts and everywhere else in the
| country. The elite might have the power to decide the
| public school curriculum, for example, and if you spent
| all your time within the elite it might seem like a whole
| world in itself. Nevertheless the religious masses still
| vastly outnumber them.
|
| I was told by Cairo elites that a major change in Egypt
| since the 1990s or so was the increasing pressure the
| masses were putting on the elites. For example, if you
| ran a business and you did not have the prayer bump on
| your forehead, your customers might question your
| religiosity and take their business elsewhere. And the
| stricter veiling of urban Egyptian women compared to
| accounts from the mid-20th-century was obvious. Again, I
| don't know what might have changed in that regard since
| the revolution.
|
| That people are employed in tourism to the Ancient
| Egyptian past does not necessarily mean acceptance of the
| Ancient Egyptian past. There are a number of Muslim
| countries that derive income from tourism that is at odds
| with a strict understanding of Islam, but devout Muslims
| are willing to look the other way (and perhaps tell
| themselves that this is just a temporary thing until the
| great sharia future ushers in an equitable economy for
| everyone).
| simlevesque wrote:
| > I feel my experience was representative
|
| Everyone does.
| HenryKissinger wrote:
| Good.
| Ozzie_osman wrote:
| People have been imprisoned, tortured physically and
| mentally, and killed for being part of (or just being
| accused of being a part of) certain religious/political
| groups.
|
| I find it hard to say "good" about that, even if I disagree
| with the group they are a part of.
| TheMblabla wrote:
| Is this a cosplay account? the real Henry kissinger
| probably would be in favor of political prisoners.
| yk wrote:
| Considering there was a US backed coup, I have a hunch
| considering Kissingers realpolitik in this case.
| notsureaboutpg wrote:
| Khomeini turned Iran into a much more open society for the
| people than Iran had under the Shah (whose SAVAK was far more
| brutal, secretive, and effective at terror than any org in Iran
| currently today).
|
| People in the West don't get that all tyrannies aren't equal
| and some are far better than others. You may not like Salafists
| (I think you are referring to the Muslim Brotherhood, who are
| decidedly not Salafists, Salafists tend to side with the
| dictators), but if they were to succeed they would bring a more
| open society to Egypt than what currently exists. That's their
| appeal.
|
| Alas they have pretty much all been slaughtered by the current
| dictator and the only democratically elected leader of Egypt
| (their own guy) died in prison this year or last year.
| nafizh wrote:
| Don't want to give a political opinion as people are entitled
| to their own. But as a religious fact, it is prohibited in
| Islam to show veneration of any kind to pagan traditions or
| celebrations because of its strict commitment to monotheism.
| So, bringing in salafists into this to show this is an extreme
| position is factually incorrect.
| Ozzie_osman wrote:
| I am a Muslim and have at no point considered celebrating
| non-Muslim ancestors as being wrong or prohibited. None of
| Muslim friends think that either. I am aware that some
| Muslims might, but it is not by any means a religious fact.
| nethunters wrote:
| What you consider is not religious fact.
|
| This is a religious law that is agreed upon by each of the
| Schools of Jurisprudence in the Sunnis and the Shias.
|
| Edit - This is not meant to be demeaning. What I meant is
| that religious law in Islam is not based on what is
| considered to be acceptable or not by a few people. Also
| what a person and their friends consider a ruling to be is
| not representative for all Muslims.
| egeozcan wrote:
| I'm not a Muslim but I've read the Quran. I can confirm
| that there it says not to worship any entity other than
| Allah and it says nothing about "celebrating" them being
| prohibited.
|
| It does say a lot of bad things (to put it extremely
| mildly) about people worshiping other deities, especially
| idols, though.
| whoisburbansky wrote:
| The Old Testament Bible says similar things about
| worshipping other deities, idols, etc. The literal first
| commandment explicitly prohibits it.
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| The old testament has some pretty crazy, hairy and
| barbaric stuff in it.
|
| Literal taking of religious texts is generally
| incompatible with moderm civilised society
| whoisburbansky wrote:
| I agree wholeheartedly, which is why felt like I had to
| point this out to someone seemingly taking another
| religious text quite literally.
| nethunters wrote:
| Understanding the Quran literally is not the only way
| Islamic law is derived.
|
| According to the four Schools of Jurisprudence in the
| Sunnis and the Ja'fari Schools of Jurisprudence in the
| Shias Islamic law is derived from the following sources:
| - Quran and Quranic exegesis - Ahaadith (prophetic
| traditions) - Ijmaa' (consensus) - Qiyaas (analogy -
| limited use cases and remit)
|
| This is a ruling that is held by each of the Schools of
| Jurisprudence in the Sunnis and the Ja'fari School of
| Jurisprudence of the Shias.
|
| As a side note the modern day Salafis/Wahabis/Ahlul
| Hadith literally interpret the Quran and Ahaadith
| (Prophetic Traditions) which is how they reach rulings
| that differ from the accepted Schools of Jurisprudence
| that have had millions of scholars over centuries work
| together.
| Solocomplex wrote:
| No respect for those of us who still worship Ra.
| notananthem wrote:
| Why is there a lot of anti-Islamic sentiment on HNN? The article
| doesn't even mention it but people are grasping at straws to
| attack it.
| sneak wrote:
| To answer your question literally and directly: because a lot
| of HN users are Americans, and there is a lot of anti-islamic
| sentiment in the USA in general.
|
| It is widely seen as acceptable in the US.
| xenihn wrote:
| the golden mummies make a statement
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