[HN Gopher] Egypt holds grand procession of ancient mummies in C...
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       Egypt holds grand procession of ancient mummies in Cairo
        
       Author : KoftaBob
       Score  : 76 points
       Date   : 2021-04-04 14:07 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.axios.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.axios.com)
        
       | systemvoltage wrote:
       | Egypt is being puppeted by China, vast amounts of money is being
       | poured in to elevate its image, culture and eliminate poverty in
       | return of the massive surveillance state and iron grip from
       | unpayable loans.
       | 
       | Checkout the "New Administration Capital". All digital currency,
       | everyone is watched and monitored. Even the name is straight up
       | unapologetically dystopian:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Administrative_Capital
        
         | simlevesque wrote:
         | > The new capital of Egypt is yet to be given a name.
         | 
         | Did you read your link? You are talking about it's "dystopian
         | name" but it's a placeholder, which every project has at some
         | point. Sounds like fearmongering.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | masterphilo wrote:
         | > Egypt is being puppeted by China
         | 
         | Sources? And depending on your definition of "puppeted", it
         | looks like pretty much everyone on the world stage is
         | "puppeted" by China.
        
           | xenihn wrote:
           | I mean, yes, but that's not a bad thing. We aren't going to
           | be able to stop catastrophic climate change without
           | authoritarianism.
        
             | xyzelement wrote:
             | China has brought on more coal powerplant last year than
             | exist in the west on total. What are you talking about?
        
               | mrlonglong wrote:
               | Coal in China supplies 53% of its electrical power. It is
               | dropping slowly though. Hopefully they will succeed. Air
               | pollution from those coal power plants is absolutely
               | atrocious.
        
           | systemvoltage wrote:
           | There are plenty of sources if you search for it:
           | 
           | https://www.reuters.com/article/egypt-china-financing-
           | idUSL5...
        
         | astrea wrote:
         | What's dystopian about the name? It's a new capital for the
         | administration (ie government). Sounds like a pretty no-
         | nonsense name to me
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | mc32 wrote:
       | Looks like most people are enthusiastic about this parade as they
       | should be... However I can't shake off the Genesis melody "The
       | Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging" as I read about it.
        
       | Ozzie_osman wrote:
       | (Posting as top level since this is getting discussed in several
       | sub threads)
       | 
       | I'm Egyptian (though haven't lived there in over a decade) . Many
       | of us loved this display. We are proud of our heritage and proud
       | that the world can see and appreciate it the way we do.
       | 
       | That said, many of us also have qualms about the local politics
       | and the authoritarian way the country is being run. It's possible
       | to both appreciate this display and be critical of the politics.
       | It's not easy because the figureheads of those politics were so
       | heavily involved here. Good on them for at least doing this piece
       | well.
        
         | mensetmanusman wrote:
         | The interesting thing is that corruption was also rife in the
         | past as well, but like birthing pain, it is mostly forgotten as
         | it morphs into memory.
        
         | thisisauserid wrote:
         | Using the word "heritage" seems odd here. Would anyone who
         | moved to into this land qualify as inheritors?
        
           | EdwardDiego wrote:
           | I'm a Pakeha Kiwi and proud of the Maori heritage of our
           | country, even though it's not my direct heritage.
        
           | boomboomsubban wrote:
           | I imagine there's like a 99% chance the poster is related to
           | every mummy shown, both because it's been millennia and
           | Egyptian nobility surely married throughout what became
           | Persia.
        
         | inglor_cz wrote:
         | This inner conflict between loving our country and history vs.
         | being dismayed about its current leadership seems to be fate of
         | almost everyone around. Even in democratic countries. We have
         | less violence, but the extent of bribery, cronyism and
         | incompetence that is documented by the media every day is
         | disheartening.
        
       | avl999 wrote:
       | It's like we haven't learned anything from horror movies.
        
       | Ozzie_osman wrote:
       | > Egypt held a five-mile procession of 22 ancient mummies in
       | Cairo, as they were moved from a museum where they'd been for
       | over a century to the new National Museum of Egyptian
       | Civilization Saturday night.
       | 
       | This is not to be confused with the Grand Egyptian Museum, which
       | is due to open later this year
       | (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Egyptian_Museum). The
       | GEM's opening has been highly anticipated (and delayed) for
       | years. Actually even a lot of my Egyptian friends thought the
       | mummies were being moved to the GEM.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | notananthem wrote:
       | Interesting choice of only using light skinned actors, and hiding
       | working class neighborhoods. Sounds like they're taking tips from
       | the best in the game, good ol' USA.
        
       | henvic wrote:
       | Awful. Poor people are having tax money stolen from them to move
       | head-of-state mummies... Even long-dead mummies are making
       | people's lives miserable, lol.
        
         | masterphilo wrote:
         | Why is celebrating one of the oldest civilizations in human
         | history, their own nation's history, considered "awful"?
         | 
         | I thought the whole thing looked beautiful. I hope to visit
         | someday when the area is fully developed.
         | 
         | I suspect your complaint was targeted at Sisi's management of
         | the country, in which case this is a complete aside.
        
           | frosted-flakes wrote:
           | henvic's comment was clearly said in jest.
        
             | xkeysc0re wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
        
               | frosted-flakes wrote:
               | Did you miss the "lol"?
        
               | masterphilo wrote:
               | Thanks. I guess years of browsing HN have made me immune
               | to the significance of the lolz.
        
         | yk wrote:
         | Funny enough, Herodotus reports in 500 BCE that that is pretty
         | much how Egyptians felt at the time about the pyramids.
         | 
         | [Edit:] Corrected 1000 year off typo...
        
         | CaptainJustin wrote:
         | I would normally agree with a statement along these lines.
         | However I would like to think that this came out of the
         | marketing budget for the tourism sector. I bet tourism is
         | significant to Egypt's economy.
         | 
         | Then I think the question becomes: Was this an effective
         | marketing event? Who knows. But considering someone from South
         | Africa is discussing it with someone in the Netherlands on HN
         | perhaps it worked out.
        
           | inglor_cz wrote:
           | Absolutely. We do not normally discuss Egypt here in CZ, but
           | this video is spreading virally across the social networks.
           | 
           | The post-Covid summer is inching closer and there is a lot of
           | pent-up demand for tourism and discovery of new places. I bet
           | some people are not going to forget this show.
        
             | egeozcan wrote:
             | > The post-Covid summer is inching closer
             | 
             | Where I'm living (Germany), this sounds like fantasy.
        
               | inglor_cz wrote:
               | There is a good chance that by August we will be over 50
               | % vaccinated and there will be a late vacation season.
        
               | morelisp wrote:
               | If true, I should definitely have left Berlin for Prague
               | a couple years ago...
        
         | wl wrote:
         | The Cairo Museum was not built intelligently or well and was
         | falling apart even a century ago. Much priceless material
         | culture was destroyed in basement flooding in the years before
         | the Nile was dammed. John D. Rockefeller Jr. even offered to
         | replace it in the 1920s, redirecting his funds to Jerusalem
         | after politics and the control he demanded torpedoed the
         | project. The mummies should have been moved to a more
         | appropriate location long ago. I don't begrudge the Egyptian
         | state a little bit of pomp and glitter as they do what they
         | should have done long ago.
        
       | inglor_cz wrote:
       | A celebration of a pre-Islamic civilization like that must be
       | very, very offensive to the local Salafists.
       | 
       | (Let them gnash their teeth and let us hope they won't be able to
       | generate an Egyptian equivalent of Khomeini. The last Persian
       | Shah liked to celebrate ancient pre-Islamic history of Persia as
       | well, culminating with the great international party in the ruins
       | of Persepolis.)
        
         | Ozzie_osman wrote:
         | Not that I agree with Salafists at all, but it's odd that many
         | people's reaction to this is to mention them.
         | 
         | To a large degree, local so-called Salafists (at least the
         | politicized ones) have been largely silenced, imprisoned, and
         | otherwise "dealt with" since 2013.
        
           | inglor_cz wrote:
           | I know what happens to prominent Salafists under Sisi, but
           | that is no guarantee of future development.
           | 
           | Most of them have survived with their heads temporarily down,
           | but not off. A massive reservoir of angry manpower waiting
           | for the moment that the regime starts going wobbly.
           | 
           | If the history of totalitarian movements in Europe can be
           | used as an analogy, the question of "who is going to rule
           | Egypt in twenty years" is far from settled.
        
           | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
           | I spent two months hitchhiking around Egypt in 2008, after
           | coming down from Europe and passing through the countries
           | along the way. I found Egypt to be by far the most Salafist-
           | leaning of the countries I passed through, far stricter in
           | its understanding of Islam than Turkey or the Levant. When
           | mentioning the Ancient Egyptian past to the average Egyptian
           | (i.e. not some Cairo elites), the response was usually that
           | even talking about all that was _haram_.
           | 
           | So, when a person's firsthand experience of Egypt was like
           | that, naturally one of the first things that will come to
           | mind is "Hmm, I wonder how the local Egyptian people felt
           | about this procession." I do find it hard to believe that the
           | population has become less strict in its interpretation since
           | 2013, even if their room for applying their beliefs
           | politically has narrowed.
        
             | Ozzie_osman wrote:
             | Sorry you had that experience. I grew up in Egypt and don't
             | think it's representative. Some regions might be like that,
             | or you may have gotten unlucky.
             | 
             | A non-trivial part of the Egyptian population is employed
             | in tourism. It's not all about Ancient Egypt, but that's
             | the main attraction, so many people not only are OK
             | discussing it, they're making a living out of it. Ancient
             | Egyptian history is taught in public school curriculum,
             | etc. Even the national soccer team's nickname is the
             | "Pharaohs".
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | Do contemporary Egyptians consider the current Egyptian
               | state to be a successor state to the ancient Egyptians?
               | Do they consider their culture to be a development of the
               | ancient culture?
               | 
               | Serious question from someone who has been to Egypt but
               | not fully digested the culture or the people. Thanks.
        
               | Ozzie_osman wrote:
               | Not really. Keep in mind after the Ancient Egyptians,
               | Egypt was ruled by many empires (Roman, Greek, Islamic,
               | British). Egypt basically only got its independence after
               | thousands of years of foreign rule in the last century.
               | 
               | So it's viewed as part of the country's heritage but not
               | necessarily culture or state.
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | I see, thank you.
        
               | doktorhladnjak wrote:
               | It's complicated. Copts (about 20% of the population) in
               | Egypt are the most direct descendants of the ancient
               | Egyptians. Greeks, Arabs, Ottomans, British, French
               | invaded and took control at various points in between.
               | Arabs brought Islam and Arabic language to Egypt with
               | most Copts being Christian and no longer speaking Coptic
               | (a language descended from ancient Egyptian) today,
               | there's additional tension and politics.
        
               | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
               | I feel my experience was representative, because Egypt
               | clearly consists mainly of a somewhat freethinking elite
               | around the capital and a conservative proletariat within
               | the capital's poorer districts and everywhere else in the
               | country. The elite might have the power to decide the
               | public school curriculum, for example, and if you spent
               | all your time within the elite it might seem like a whole
               | world in itself. Nevertheless the religious masses still
               | vastly outnumber them.
               | 
               | I was told by Cairo elites that a major change in Egypt
               | since the 1990s or so was the increasing pressure the
               | masses were putting on the elites. For example, if you
               | ran a business and you did not have the prayer bump on
               | your forehead, your customers might question your
               | religiosity and take their business elsewhere. And the
               | stricter veiling of urban Egyptian women compared to
               | accounts from the mid-20th-century was obvious. Again, I
               | don't know what might have changed in that regard since
               | the revolution.
               | 
               | That people are employed in tourism to the Ancient
               | Egyptian past does not necessarily mean acceptance of the
               | Ancient Egyptian past. There are a number of Muslim
               | countries that derive income from tourism that is at odds
               | with a strict understanding of Islam, but devout Muslims
               | are willing to look the other way (and perhaps tell
               | themselves that this is just a temporary thing until the
               | great sharia future ushers in an equitable economy for
               | everyone).
        
               | simlevesque wrote:
               | > I feel my experience was representative
               | 
               | Everyone does.
        
           | HenryKissinger wrote:
           | Good.
        
             | Ozzie_osman wrote:
             | People have been imprisoned, tortured physically and
             | mentally, and killed for being part of (or just being
             | accused of being a part of) certain religious/political
             | groups.
             | 
             | I find it hard to say "good" about that, even if I disagree
             | with the group they are a part of.
        
             | TheMblabla wrote:
             | Is this a cosplay account? the real Henry kissinger
             | probably would be in favor of political prisoners.
        
               | yk wrote:
               | Considering there was a US backed coup, I have a hunch
               | considering Kissingers realpolitik in this case.
        
         | notsureaboutpg wrote:
         | Khomeini turned Iran into a much more open society for the
         | people than Iran had under the Shah (whose SAVAK was far more
         | brutal, secretive, and effective at terror than any org in Iran
         | currently today).
         | 
         | People in the West don't get that all tyrannies aren't equal
         | and some are far better than others. You may not like Salafists
         | (I think you are referring to the Muslim Brotherhood, who are
         | decidedly not Salafists, Salafists tend to side with the
         | dictators), but if they were to succeed they would bring a more
         | open society to Egypt than what currently exists. That's their
         | appeal.
         | 
         | Alas they have pretty much all been slaughtered by the current
         | dictator and the only democratically elected leader of Egypt
         | (their own guy) died in prison this year or last year.
        
         | nafizh wrote:
         | Don't want to give a political opinion as people are entitled
         | to their own. But as a religious fact, it is prohibited in
         | Islam to show veneration of any kind to pagan traditions or
         | celebrations because of its strict commitment to monotheism.
         | So, bringing in salafists into this to show this is an extreme
         | position is factually incorrect.
        
           | Ozzie_osman wrote:
           | I am a Muslim and have at no point considered celebrating
           | non-Muslim ancestors as being wrong or prohibited. None of
           | Muslim friends think that either. I am aware that some
           | Muslims might, but it is not by any means a religious fact.
        
             | nethunters wrote:
             | What you consider is not religious fact.
             | 
             | This is a religious law that is agreed upon by each of the
             | Schools of Jurisprudence in the Sunnis and the Shias.
             | 
             | Edit - This is not meant to be demeaning. What I meant is
             | that religious law in Islam is not based on what is
             | considered to be acceptable or not by a few people. Also
             | what a person and their friends consider a ruling to be is
             | not representative for all Muslims.
        
             | egeozcan wrote:
             | I'm not a Muslim but I've read the Quran. I can confirm
             | that there it says not to worship any entity other than
             | Allah and it says nothing about "celebrating" them being
             | prohibited.
             | 
             | It does say a lot of bad things (to put it extremely
             | mildly) about people worshiping other deities, especially
             | idols, though.
        
               | whoisburbansky wrote:
               | The Old Testament Bible says similar things about
               | worshipping other deities, idols, etc. The literal first
               | commandment explicitly prohibits it.
        
               | ClumsyPilot wrote:
               | The old testament has some pretty crazy, hairy and
               | barbaric stuff in it.
               | 
               | Literal taking of religious texts is generally
               | incompatible with moderm civilised society
        
               | whoisburbansky wrote:
               | I agree wholeheartedly, which is why felt like I had to
               | point this out to someone seemingly taking another
               | religious text quite literally.
        
               | nethunters wrote:
               | Understanding the Quran literally is not the only way
               | Islamic law is derived.
               | 
               | According to the four Schools of Jurisprudence in the
               | Sunnis and the Ja'fari Schools of Jurisprudence in the
               | Shias Islamic law is derived from the following sources:
               | - Quran and Quranic exegesis - Ahaadith (prophetic
               | traditions) - Ijmaa' (consensus) - Qiyaas (analogy -
               | limited use cases and remit)
               | 
               | This is a ruling that is held by each of the Schools of
               | Jurisprudence in the Sunnis and the Ja'fari School of
               | Jurisprudence of the Shias.
               | 
               | As a side note the modern day Salafis/Wahabis/Ahlul
               | Hadith literally interpret the Quran and Ahaadith
               | (Prophetic Traditions) which is how they reach rulings
               | that differ from the accepted Schools of Jurisprudence
               | that have had millions of scholars over centuries work
               | together.
        
         | Solocomplex wrote:
         | No respect for those of us who still worship Ra.
        
       | notananthem wrote:
       | Why is there a lot of anti-Islamic sentiment on HNN? The article
       | doesn't even mention it but people are grasping at straws to
       | attack it.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | To answer your question literally and directly: because a lot
         | of HN users are Americans, and there is a lot of anti-islamic
         | sentiment in the USA in general.
         | 
         | It is widely seen as acceptable in the US.
        
       | xenihn wrote:
       | the golden mummies make a statement
        
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