[HN Gopher] 'Raise my taxes - now ': the millionaires who want t...
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'Raise my taxes - now ': the millionaires who want to give it all
away
Author : edward
Score : 20 points
Date : 2021-04-03 18:39 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| alacombe wrote:
| The beauty is that they can give their millions WILLINGLY and
| LEGALLY to the IRS. No need from coercion... unless this is all
| virtue signalling.
| AngryData wrote:
| From what I heard it is illegal for the IRS to accept money
| that they are not owed. Is that wrong?
| User23 wrote:
| You're free to donate any amount you like to various federal
| agencies[1]. The IRS is under the Treasury Department.
|
| [1] https://pay.gov/public/search/global?formSearchCategory=D
| ona...
| shishy wrote:
| That's completely missing the point. They could be doing it to
| raise awareness (when poor people complain about raising taxes,
| the rich won't really care, but if rich people start asking for
| it, then perhaps it'll have a better effect)?
|
| Besides, what's wrong with virtue signaling if it also has
| beneficial consequences?
| MR4D wrote:
| Then just write a check to the IRS voluntarily and go around
| on Oprah and Ellen and get them to help browbeat others to do
| the same thing.
|
| Why that is not an apparent option is beyond me.
|
| People who "give to charity" at this scale have enormous tax
| breaks that are beyond comprehension. Giving that money to
| the IRS gives you ZERO tax breaks. This one fact should tell
| you everything about the people we are talking about.
| shishy wrote:
| Is it well established that money is used more efficiently
| to benefit citizens when it goes to the IRS versus a
| charity?
|
| (What's wrong with someone getting tax breaks if it means
| they have to put money to a good cause to get it?)
| nyokodo wrote:
| Abigail Disney is free to write a check to the US Treasury any
| time she wants to give it all away and they will gladly cash it.
| Why hasn't this happened already if she is so selfless? Because
| she doesn't want to be taxed more in so much as she wants others
| to be taxed more.
| alacombe wrote:
| Or this is just virtue signalling.
| africanboy wrote:
| maybe.
|
| But she is well known for being a philanthropist and for taking
| stance against "dirty money", so she probably deserves some
| credit.
|
| https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/disney-...
| alacombe wrote:
| Argument can be made she never had to work and never actually
| made any money, other than inheriting the work of her
| grandfather Roy O. Disney.
|
| She is as privileged and self-entitled as can be.
| africanboy wrote:
| How is she different from, say, Donald Trump, Paris Hilton,
| George Bush Jr. or the English Royal family?
| labawi wrote:
| > Abigail Disney has parted with $72m - and thinks the rich
| need to pay far more tax.
|
| I think she is trying to raise the point, that both she and all
| the others should be properly taxed - and that would be fair
| and just. Achieving that would in fact notably help people.
|
| A single person giving away 72M$ will not make a difference.
| al_chemist wrote:
| Raising taxes for poorest* will make more difference than
| taxing wealthiest. What kind of difference are we trying to
| make?
|
| * - there are more poor people and there are few wealthy
| setr wrote:
| In terms of extracted cash? Given that the top 1% now-
| famously have more funds than the bottom 90%, taxing the
| wealthiest will definitely make more of a difference.
|
| The number of poor people doesn't matter -- only how much
| large their total pool of cash is to extract from.
| beaconstudios wrote:
| You really have to squint to get the idea that the 1%
| have more money than the bottom 90%. In reality, they own
| businesses that are valuable. You couldn't liquidate all
| their stocks and end up with their paper net worths in
| your bank.
| anaerobicover wrote:
| One wonders then why they need so much of this imaginary
| value.
| beaconstudios wrote:
| If you start a company and that company is successful,
| you will be worth a lot of money through your ownership
| of that company. Does that make you a scrooge mcduck
| wealth hoarder? No.
| Can_Not wrote:
| > Does that make you a scrooge mcduck wealth hoarder? No.
|
| My first guess was that "scrooge mcduck wealth hoarding"
| made you a scrooge mcduck wealth hoarder, but good to see
| you're ruling out the strawmen early.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| There's no need to ignorantly speculate when you can read about
| what she wants. She wants people of similar wealth to be taxed
| equally. You can learn more about her ideas at
| https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/apr/03/raise-my-taxes-...
| listless wrote:
| She's clearly given so much away. She's not virtue signaling
| here.
|
| But I do find it laughable that educated people think that
| giving their money to the government is a good idea. It's one
| thing to donate to charities. It's quite another to flush your
| money down the drain that is the ridiculously dysfunctional US
| government.
| [deleted]
| scotty79 wrote:
| > [...] she wants others to be taxed more
|
| Yes. And she wants this so much that she is even willing to get
| taxed along with them.
|
| What is your point?
| 1996 wrote:
| Only partially right.
|
| Writing a check she can do very easily, so she gets little
| social credit for that.
|
| Simpler reason: virtue signaling reaches new heights when you
| can force OTHER people besides yourself in doing things that
| will give you social credit - a bit like the ritual burning of
| goods and savings in some pacific tribes: if you do it
| yourself, you need some witnesses, and you will get less social
| credit than if you can social engineer a large party where
| everybody is a witnesses and more people engage in the ritual
| burning of goods.
|
| It must not just be painful and wasteful, but also as hard as
| possible. It's a bit like a reverse proof of work!
| MikeUt wrote:
| By that logic the tax rate should be zero, and people can just
| send the treasury whatever amount they like.
|
| Are we now done pretending we don't know about the tragedy of
| the commons?
| com2kid wrote:
| The counter argument is simple: Budgets cannot be planned out
| based on hoping people donate more.
| alacombe wrote:
| Budgets can't be planned at all when there is no more
| "{m,b,t}illionaires" to steal from either.
| africanboy wrote:
| I honestly don't get the "stealing" part, can you explain
| what you mean?
| phaemon wrote:
| There are a small (but rather vocal) number of people in
| Western societies who believe that the amazing benefits
| and privileges they enjoy are in fact something they're
| entitled to due to their natural wonderfulness. They are
| therefore horrified to discover, when they grow older (if
| not up) that these things have to be paid for.
|
| Some are so traumatised by this realisation that they
| reject the concept entirely and decide that their
| pampered lives are the natural state of the world. This
| obviously means that anyone insisting on payment is an
| extortionist.
|
| Hence the above response.
| alacombe wrote:
| Taxation is theft, coerced by the threat of violence.
| com2kid wrote:
| Strange how democratic societies have taxation while
| dictatorships have shake downs and bribery payments to
| local officials.
|
| I rather appreciate paying a regular, well known, fees
| instead of having to hand out bribes left and right to
| get things done.
|
| Arbitrary bribes to keep government running is insanely
| inefficient. Taxes are a much more efficient system that
| lets civil servants get paid (a transparent wage!) and
| let's me get things done in my day to day.
| AngryData wrote:
| So if it is theft and we stop taxing people, wouldn't it
| require either your government to fall under its own
| weight giving rise to anarchy until someone strong arms
| or new government, or you go full socialist and the
| government owns nearly all business and can thus pay for
| itself out of business profits which is just taxes in
| another form?
| ALittleLight wrote:
| It's not really a counterargument to say that bad things
| might happen if we call taxation theft. Taxation either
| is or is not theft on it's own merits, potential
| consequences of that determination don't change it.
|
| It's also not correct to say that our choices are either
| to call taxation not-theft or descend into anarchy or
| socialism. I think taxation is theft because it's people
| with guns forcing me to pay money or else they'll send me
| to prison. I wouldn't pay that money if they didn't
| threaten me, so, seems pretty theft-like to me.
|
| That said, I also realize there is a necessity for the
| government to be funded somehow. That means we need to
| balance the immorality of taking money that people don't
| want to give with the necessity of funding the
| government.
|
| Thinking about things this way inclines you to certain
| perspectives about what the government should and
| shouldn't be doing. Anything that the government does
| should be worth stealing money from citizens to fund
| doing.
| throw123123123 wrote:
| Budgets are planned on existing resources not on future
| streams of revenue. Plus tax revenue is also variant, this is
| not a great argument in favor of taxes over donations.
| AngryData wrote:
| Who do you send the check to? Because the IRS can't legally
| cash a check for money you don't owe.
| jrockway wrote:
| You can make a donation to the US Treasury at pay.gov.
| https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/public/gifts-to-
| government.h...
| throwawayboise wrote:
| I remember a paragraph in the IRS form 1040 instructions on
| how to make a gift towards the national debt. Likely it's
| still there.
| throw123123123 wrote:
| My thesis is that people would like to achieve results without
| feeling they are losing relative to their peers: thus they need
| to think of taxes as a way to donate but feel that the rest
| must donate with them and keep their relative status.
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| >> there is nobody on earth - Jesus Christ himself isn't worth
| 500 times his median workers' pay,
|
| Anyone got a rough estimate of what his workers made?
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(page generated 2021-04-03 23:03 UTC)