[HN Gopher] Coinbase Announces Listing Date of Its Stock on the ...
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Coinbase Announces Listing Date of Its Stock on the Nasdaq
Author : esalazar
Score : 84 points
Date : 2021-04-01 20:11 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.coinbase.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.coinbase.com)
| superfrank wrote:
| There was a time when would have loved to buy Coinbase stock.
|
| Just a few years ago, they were by far the easiest was to buy
| crypto (IMO). At that time they also felt like the most
| legitimate site and for people who didn't 100% know what they
| were doing, but wanted to buy some Bitcoin, that perception of
| legitimacy is important. For those reasons, I feel like they kind
| of dominated the casual coin holder space, and I think they could
| justify the fees they were charging.
|
| In the last year or so it feels like that's all changed. Because
| of things like Apex Crypto, it feels like pretty much every stock
| broker app will now let you buy Bitcoin and they'll do it with
| lower fees than Coinbase. It seems like their market (non-crypto
| people looking to buy crypto) is being eaten alive. I don't
| understand their value prop or why their higher fees make sense
| anymore.
|
| I've been burned too many times, so I don't short stocks or buy
| puts, but I just can't see this being a good buy. Unless they
| drastically lower their fees, I just don't see them continuing to
| grow users.
| ryanSrich wrote:
| Not to mention that Coinbase doesn't really serve a strong
| purpose anymore. Why not just use a DEX?
| xienze wrote:
| Well first, how are you gonna get Eth or whatever to use that
| DEX? Some apps have payment options but hoooo boy are the
| fees outrageous. Coinbase doesn't have the best fees in the
| world but just mosey on over to Coinbase Pro and it's a whole
| lot better.
|
| Then there's the gas fees on Uniswap. Not even worth
| bothering with unless you plan on making $1000+ trades.
|
| The other thing to consider is that for newbies they offer a
| safe platform with a list of established coins. That counts
| for something.
| miglmj wrote:
| High fees and lack of a fiat on ramp are two big reasons
| rawtxapp wrote:
| I agree with you, I think their coinbase pro fees are
| relatively reasonable, but I just don't see why anyone would
| use the "normal" coinbase, the fees are very high, I suspect
| it's probably name recognition, ease of use and trust.
| Black101 wrote:
| Many Stock brokers like Webull let you buy crypto, but you
| can't transfer them to your wallet or use them to make
| purchases. Also, they claim no fees, but they add the fee to
| the spread (the spread is artificially increased to 1% both
| ways (2% total)) ... so it is like a hidden fee that ends up
| being more then what you pay on Coinbase, especially if you
| trade a substantial amount each month [1]. So Coinbase is still
| one of the best even though they can't handle the loads when
| the market get busy.
|
| 1. https://i.imgur.com/IohYn4o.png
| superfrank wrote:
| > Many Stock brokers like Webull let you buy crypto, but you
| can't transfer them to your wallet or use them to make
| purchases.
|
| Fair, but I feel like most people I know aren't using crypto
| as a currency right now. They're more interested in holding
| or speculating on the price, so transferring to another
| wallet is a non-issue.
|
| > Also, they claim no fees, but they add the fee to the
| spread (the spread is artificially increased to 1% both ways
| (2% total))
|
| I'm not up to date on Coinbase's latest fee structure, but I
| think 2% still may be less than, or at least comparable, to
| what they are charging. Even if it isn't, the illusion of no
| fees will attract a certain amount of people.
|
| > especially if you trade a substantial amount each month
|
| Do people trade a lot using Coinbase (serious question)? I
| was under the impression that there were better platforms out
| there more suited to day/swing trading crypto.
| Black101 wrote:
| The maximum that you can get charged at Coinbase is 1% for
| a buy & sell transaction pair (0.5% each way), if you don't
| trade much... so half of webull :
| https://i.imgur.com/IohYn4o.png
|
| But it goes down quickly. It gets cut in half if you trade
| $50k/month and goes to down to 0% if you trade a lot.
| tedunangst wrote:
| For reference, coinbase is currently quoting bid/ask for
| bitcoin at around 58/62...
| gruez wrote:
| That's their quote for casual users. You get much tighter
| spreads on coinbase pro.
| tedunangst wrote:
| I think that's the right comparison for webull or
| robinhood.
| Black101 wrote:
| I get $0.01 spread on Coinbase pro unless the market
| activity is going crazy.
| perardi wrote:
| What's "Apex Crypto"?
|
| I am not being obtuse or sarcastic here. Is it this?
| http://apexcrypto.com Because that website tells me nothing at
| all. And past that, Google only shows a few press releases.
|
| -
|
| But on the consumer crypto coin collector criteria, it still
| seems like Coinbase has the mind-share. And I imagine they have
| the reach and scale to be in compliance with regulators, which
| is what makes them a more attractive investment.
|
| Me? Square's Cash app is awfully slick, and makes buying
| drugs...I mean...buying non-fiat currency to stick it to the
| man all very easy. But I have no idea if people use that
| feature frequently.
| superfrank wrote:
| > What's "Apex Crypto"?
|
| Apex Crypto is a crypto clearing house, similar to the
| clearing houses we have for the stock market. Companies like
| Robinhood, WeBull, SoFi, etc aren't building their crypto
| trading infrastructure from the ground up. They're plugging
| into services like this, which handle the exchange between
| fiat and crypto and a lot of the regulatory compliance. This
| drastically cuts down the complexities and lowers the barrier
| to entry for offering buying and selling of crypto.
|
| I don't know all the details of the services they offer, but
| services like this are the reason it seems like every app
| under the sun will now let you buy and sell crypto.
| gruez wrote:
| >Apex Crypto is a crypto clearing house, similar to the
| clearing houses we have for the stock market
|
| Is this the same "Apex" that handles clearing for stocks?
| rawtxapp wrote:
| > But I have no idea if people use that feature frequently.
|
| Looks like they made 4.57B$ in revenue with 97M$ in profit
| [1]. And "We've continued to see strong adoption, with 3
| million customers [buying bitcoin] through the past year, and
| in January we saw 1 million new to bitcoin in just one
| month."
|
| 1: https://www.coindesk.com/square-cash-app-bitcoin-revenues-
| sw...
| tedunangst wrote:
| It's a bit odd to count that as revenue. Like Robinhood
| counting their entire trade volume of $350 billion as
| "revenue".
| rodonn wrote:
| Unfortunately under US accounting rules you have to do it
| this way in your financial filings.
| woobar wrote:
| But bigger brokers (in fact, much more than just brokers)
| like Merrill ($18B) or Schwab($10B) do not report their
| transaction volume as revenue.
| gibybo wrote:
| I think the bull case may be more about their future sources of
| revenue. If crypto succeeds, exchanging it with fiat may end up
| being only a relatively small amount of the economic activity.
| Traditional brokers are not likely to be able to compete with
| Coinbase in those future markets.
|
| Of course it's really hard to predict what those future markets
| might be or how much value Coinbase will be able to extract
| from them, so I have no idea if $68 billion is a reasonable
| valuation.
| vmception wrote:
| So I don't get that impression because the trading fees are a
| sideshow.
|
| Coinbase Vault is providing access and liquidity to the whole
| DeFi market without ever saying it.
|
| Its like not investing in Amazon because you didn't notice AWS.
| The similarity being limited to there being a non-consumer
| facing product that might be bigger than the visible one.
| Coinbase has a lot of growing revenue streams, which has almost
| nothing to do with the retail platform of non-crypto people
| looking to buy crypto.
| thrwn_frthr_awy wrote:
| How is the opening stock price decided on a direct listing?
|
| Is there a way to put in orders for a ticker before it has
| opened/been listed so that you can purchase at 9:30 on the 14th?
| woobar wrote:
| RBLX just did a direct listing. They set a reference price at
| $45. Later in the day (they did not start trading until midday)
| the reference price was adjusted to $60. I had two limit
| orders. One from day before at $50, another placed at noon at
| $62. None of them executed, since it opened at $64+.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _How is the opening stock price decided on a direct listing?_
|
| Same way every stock does every morning: the opening cross [1].
|
| [1] http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/Trader.aspx?id=OpenClose
| an_opabinia wrote:
| Look for an order type called "limit on open," or its
| radioactive cousin, "market on open."
|
| The reason people don't do this is, that kind of order requires
| having an opinion about what a stock should be priced at. And
| retail traders basically never have that opinion.
| tfang17 wrote:
| Coinbase has been using Morgan Stanley's Shareworks platform to
| manage the direct listing, which has been a nightmare to use. ACH
| transfers take over a week and the platform has a ton of
| technical issues.
| an_opabinia wrote:
| In my experience, financial literacy is so poor and Dunning
| Kruger so high that typical non-finance human beings constantly
| blame the process for extremely basic mistakes, like sending
| money between accounts of different titles but saying that you
| own both of them.
|
| Even the word "title" would detonate the average person.
| gibybo wrote:
| This sounds like a case of blaming the user for poor UX
| design. If the users that the system is designed for are
| constantly making the same "basic mistakes", then the system
| isn't designed well for them.
| BenoitP wrote:
| I think it is spelled Dunning-Kruger.
| tfang17 wrote:
| I'm a pretty experienced trader and worked on the Payments
| team at Coinbase, dealing with ACH, wires, and whatnot. If
| it's hard for me, can't imagine what the platform is like for
| others.
|
| Coinbase has an alumni Slack filled with complaints on
| Shareworks.
| frakkingcylons wrote:
| > Coinbase anticipates that its Class A common stock will begin
| trading on the Nasdaq Global Select Market under the ticker
| symbol "COIN" on April 14, 2021.
| 3327 wrote:
| Lmk when i can short.
| fredfoobar wrote:
| If you want to short a stock, you should at the very least do
| some due diligence and read the article before you comment.
| freerobby wrote:
| April 14
| westpfelia wrote:
| typically options dont get written for a few months until
| after
| tedunangst wrote:
| Should be able to sell short the day of, but locating
| borrows may be difficult depending on who's holding it.
| vmception wrote:
| If you have direct market access and a clearing house you
| can do whatever you want, its the reliance on brokers
| that limits all the other market participants
| andy_ppp wrote:
| The answer is April 14th for those too lazy to read the article.
| Melting_Harps wrote:
| I hope the GME crowds short the living hell out this thing...
| thirdlamp wrote:
| Would've been interesting if they'd IPO through some crypto
| means, like on ether or something
| cecida wrote:
| Despite what Crypto Bros say, all they really want is to get
| filthy rich with real money.
| wsinks wrote:
| I know it's wrong and this is likely a low level comment
| but...
|
| Crypto Bros -> CryptBros -> XD
| base698 wrote:
| Real lambos and houses. No one wants dirty fiat.
| [deleted]
| brian-armstrong wrote:
| If anyone has fiat lying around causing them problems I'd
| be happy to take it off your hands. I'm certified for
| proper fiat handling.
| Melting_Harps wrote:
| > If anyone has fiat lying around causing them problems
| I'd be happy to take it off your hands. I'm certified for
| proper fiat handling.
|
| You can't be trusted not to manipulate the Bitcoin
| market, as you just got fined; your customer service is
| abhorant and you keep shutting down accounts and trades
| for no explicable reason. Why would anyone trust you with
| anything at this point is beyond me.
|
| I want you personally to know that YOU and Coinbase (and
| what it represents) are the bane of Bitcoin and all of HN
| and YC should know that.
| vecter wrote:
| You've got the wrong Brian Armstrong.
| jklinger410 wrote:
| Yeah man, we all love the petro-dollar.
| Hermel wrote:
| Yes, this is a missed opportunity for crypto. Unfortunately,
| securities and exchanges for securities are so heavily
| regulated, that it is very hard to try something like this with
| a "fail fast" approach and we will probably have to wait for
| quite a while until we see such markets happen, if at all.
|
| To me as a computer scientist, it is astonishing that even
| something as simple as a web service that matches willing
| buyers and sellers of securities requires a license that costs
| millions of dollars to obtain.
| gruez wrote:
| >Yes, this is a missed opportunity for crypto. Unfortunately,
| securities and exchanges for securities are so heavily
| regulated
|
| Makes sense, given the ICO craze back in 2017.
| wj wrote:
| About a decade ago BATS tried to IPO on their own exchange
| and failed pretty spectacularly. Coinbase probably doesn't
| want to "fail fast" with their IPO when there are billions on
| the line.
| fredfoobar wrote:
| The reason is the SEC. Look into stokr.io.
| CamelCaseName wrote:
| There's a reason access to capital markets is somewhat
| restricted. Investors are going to get fleeced.
|
| I only wish the SEC (or the European authority) had more
| bite, as stokr absolutely deserves to be shut down.
| nikanj wrote:
| Never get high on your own supply
| julee04 wrote:
| is this april fools?
| perardi wrote:
| 1. No, because if a company announced that the SEC had given
| them go-ahead to go public "for the lulz", that company would
| then be in deep shit with investors and the SEC for the rest of
| time.
|
| 2. No, because that wouldn't even be a funny joke.
|
| 3. No, because we are done with April Fools, the internet drove
| that into the ground looooong ago.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _is this April fools?_
|
| No. Why would it be? Coinbase has been preparing to go public
| for some time now.
| atkbrah wrote:
| Because it's April 1st.
| swixmix wrote:
| https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1679788/00016282802
| 1...
| [deleted]
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| Honest question, why is Coinbase listing on the NASDAQ (edit:
| tangentially also NYSE)? If their whole business model is
| predicated on the success of crypto-currency shouldn't the whole
| world of fiat currency be completely irrelevant and a
| distraction?
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| > why is Coinbase listing on the NYSE
|
| I don't think you read the article, let alone the headline.
| [deleted]
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| Pedantic point.
|
| Question remains...
| loceng wrote:
| My guess is they need to allow mainstream investors to get
| some of their eggs in the Coinbase-Bitcoin basket, so then
| they can really ramp up and involve the VC-Finance
| Industrial Complex to further buy into the MLM-Ponzi
| scheme.
|
| Edit to add: Your 3 downvotes have convinced me, especially
| because most certainly they didn't come from users
| financially incentivized for Bitcoin to gain popularity.
| eej71 wrote:
| They are listing on NASDAQ. Though they will be tradable on
| NYSE as well.
| ac29 wrote:
| The VCs that gave them many dollars would like their investment
| (and hopefully, profit) returned in dollars.
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| Ahh, there's the real reason. So why do the VCs want fiat and
| not crypto returns?
| nostromo95 wrote:
| Well, (a) just because they invested in Coinbase, which
| does crypto, doesn't mean they have as much confidence in
| crypto as they have in Coinbase--betting on Coinbase is a
| bet on the volatility of crypto + Coinbase's ability to
| win, not a bet on the price of crypto, (b) you have to pay
| taxes in dollars, (c) their investors probably want
| dollars.
| kgog wrote:
| At a minimum, that's a signal for the future of
| cryptoCURRENCY. :)
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Nasdaq, but in any case coinbase is predicated on crypto
| interacting with the normal banking/fiat world. They're
| basically in the middle ground. They aren't crypto-denialists
| who say crypto will go to zero. They aren't crypto-bulls who
| say crypto will replace all currency in the near future. They
| see crypto as coexisting with the existing banking and finance
| sector.
| vmception wrote:
| The US markets have the most liquidity and access and users
| compared to all markets in the world, including crypto markets.
| errantmind wrote:
| Not from what I've seen. Binance (Intl) has a lot more
| liquidity than any US specific market, mainly because they
| offer derivatives
| sjg007 wrote:
| What happens when the US bans Bitcoin?
| sk55 wrote:
| What makes you so confident that the US will ban bitcoin?
|
| Also, if the US bans it then it's still valuable in much of the
| rest of the world. Bitcoin is antifragile in that regard.
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