[HN Gopher] Welcome to the Decade of Concern
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       Welcome to the Decade of Concern
        
       Author : jseliger
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2021-04-01 16:45 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (scholars-stage.blogspot.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (scholars-stage.blogspot.com)
        
       | paulz_ wrote:
       | I have no knowledge of this field. Certainly not enough to know
       | if the article is accurate (haven't ever heard of this blog till
       | now). But many of the claims seem well cited.
       | 
       | If this is true...how maddening. How can you spend more than the
       | next 10 countries combined and still mismanage your way into this
       | predicament? Is there anything lumbering bureaucracy cannot
       | destroy?
        
         | torstenvl wrote:
         | I'm not going to claim that everything in the DoD is well-
         | managed, but don't discount the advantages China has in
         | _gaining more advantages._ The PLA never has to cut its budget
         | due to a lack of political will, and China has no qualms about
         | riskier espionage that may get more agents killed or captured
         | but results in being able to steal more advancements in
         | military tech.
        
       | cmalloc wrote:
       | Having no prior knowledge of national security planning and
       | outlook, this was a great read.
       | 
       | Using real time strategy games a reference point for the
       | uninitiated was a nice touch.
        
       | snurfer wrote:
       | Nuclear weapons are Taiwan's only defence against their asymmetry
       | with China. Unfortunately, that ship sailed in the 1980s.
        
       | phtrivier wrote:
       | Is taiwan the Sudetes of someone ? What happens if taiwan just
       | gets invaded, like crimea was, and no one balks ?
        
         | ohazi wrote:
         | There have been unsubstantiated rumors for years that the
         | Taiwanese military has outfitted TSMC fabs with explosives that
         | can be rigged to go off in the event of a mainland invasion in
         | order to deny China access to TSMC capabilities.
         | 
         | The rumor doesn't actually need to be true in order to act as a
         | deterrent -- it just needs to be leaked to Chinese officials
         | and considered credible. It also assumes that access to TSMC is
         | a strong motivation for an invasion, which may or may not be
         | true.
         | 
         | In any case, the answer to your question depends on whether
         | this is true, and whether the explosives are actually used. If
         | the fabs are destroyed, it'll set the world back by at least a
         | decade.
         | 
         | So if you thought the chip shortage was bad _today_...
         | 
         | On the other hand, if it's not true (or if it is, but the fabs
         | aren't destroyed for whatever reason), and operations continue
         | despite an invasion, I can definitely imagine a scenario where
         | the rest of the world just sort of shrugs and goes with it.
         | Kind of a horrifying thought, but what are the alternatives?
         | Attack China? They have nukes. Everyone will condemn China,
         | sure. Then China will get upset and claim that we're all
         | "hurting the feelings of the Chinese people" [1], and that'll
         | be the end of it.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Ch...
        
           | dageshi wrote:
           | The chinese leadership/official position is that Taiwan is
           | part of China. They don't want to invade and retake it
           | because they want TSMC's chips, they want to retake it
           | because they think it's a rebellious province that needs to
           | be brought to heel.
        
             | ohazi wrote:
             | Right, which may mean that this threat is meaningless, but
             | the rumors are still there, and the _outcome_ is probably
             | what the rest of the world _actually_ cares about when
             | considering the situation.
        
             | hosh wrote:
             | The dynamic between China and Taiwan is complex, with TSMC
             | being only one factor. China has its hands in many pies,
             | and it spans the economic, historical, cultural, and
             | military.
             | 
             | The best metaphor I have heard that sums this up was that
             | if this were a Go game, Taiwan is a Ko fight between China
             | and US.
        
           | dirtyid wrote:
           | TSMC still requires inputs from global supply chains to
           | function, so doesn't matter of PRC captures it intact,
           | disassembles fabs and reshores on mainland. US can sanction
           | down the supply chain to kill fabs anyway. In the meantime,
           | it's a source for uncomfortable detente between US/CN/TW.
           | 
           | If CN were forced to move in 10/15 year timescale is
           | "quarantining" Taiwan as summarized in another recent Greer
           | article: All Measures Short of a Cross Straits Invasion [0],
           | and hold access to TSMC hostage. Essentially PRC can blockade
           | TW ports and airspace and exploit period where TSMC
           | production still has substantial leverage, and I can see
           | uncomfortable detente continuing to ensure continued supply
           | of chips.
           | 
           | [0] https://scholars-stage.blogspot.com/2021/03/all-measures-
           | sho...
        
         | AussieWog93 wrote:
         | Even if the US doesn't really care, SEA will perceive it as a
         | huge threat. Of course, not much we can do, since China's the
         | only one with nukes...
        
       | jseliger wrote:
       | Meta comment: Scholar's Stage is the most interesting blog I've
       | encountered in years and its RSS feed is worth subscribing to.
       | 
       | One hopes China doesn't invade Taiwan, as one hopes a pandemic
       | doesn't happen; if China does, a lot of the general audience,
       | accessible material about what is likely to occur will have been
       | published at Scholar's Stage.
        
         | dirtyid wrote:
         | Greer writes well on variety of topics and well worth
         | sub/reading. But I would not rely on him for current
         | developments for US/TW/CN topics. He was one of the last
         | holdouts along with Ian Easton of TW can triumph alone crowd,
         | changing his position only recently, years after general
         | consensus from credible thinktanks suggested otherwise. I think
         | he lives in TW and has blinders on - having held his positions
         | so far past expiration date. His writing on the subject since,
         | rather his recent regurgitation of US thinktanks and opinion
         | pieces are more in line with reality. It's nice to see him
         | sober up, but never know when his opinions will drift back into
         | wish fulfilment.
        
         | incomplete wrote:
         | > Meta comment: Scholar's Stage is the most interesting blog
         | I've encountered in years and its RSS feed is worth subscribing
         | to.
         | 
         | thanks for the rec... after poking around for 30m, i have to
         | agree that it's worth subbing to. :)
        
       | sbierwagen wrote:
       | >How did this happen? It started with a Clinton era decision to
       | focus on upgrading legacy platforms instead of developing or
       | purchasing new ones:
       | 
       | >By the end of the Bill Clinton administration, the Pentagon had
       | laid out a strategy to update and replace the Reagan-era
       | fleets...
       | 
       | Strange not to mention the USSR collapsed two years before
       | Clinton took office. Hard to justify new weapons systems when
       | you're the global hegemon. Who were these new warships going to
       | be used against, Serbia?
        
         | dragontamer wrote:
         | If China attacks Taiwan with its newly minted aircraft carriers
         | and large fleets of smaller ships, who will defend them?
         | 
         | Now, I'm pretty sure the USA still beats China in a fair fight.
         | But if the USA is playing defense with Taiwan, the picture is
         | very different. China is far closer and therefore has more
         | nearby support: in particular, air support and cruise missiles.
         | 
         | In a neutral fight, keeping our fleets outside of Chinese radar
         | / aircraft range will be rather natural. But if we're talking
         | about Taiwan specifically, its clearly a different picture:
         | China can pretty much pepper any ship near Taiwan with its
         | airforce and/or cruise missiles.
         | 
         | China invades Taiwan is probably one of the potential fights in
         | this "Terrible 20s" period, where China has enough advantages
         | to seriously consider the move. Not necessarily because of
         | Chinese military spending (which has increased), or technology,
         | but because of simple geographical advantages.
         | 
         | A proper invasion of Taiwan isn't even necessary. Chinese naval
         | forces can start a blockade and really mess up international
         | trade.
         | 
         | -------------
         | 
         | China vs South Korea is a bit further out but still within a
         | zone where the Chinese Mainland offers a strong advantage to a
         | hypothetical Chinese attacking force.
        
       | maxrev17 wrote:
       | Hmm, wish countries would poll their citizens with regards to
       | wanting a war... I wonder how many would happen?
        
         | retrac wrote:
         | You're downvoted, but it has been postulated that no democracy
         | has ever waged war against another democracy, and that this is
         | a consequence of democratic governance:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory
         | 
         | As far as I can tell, the observation is historically true. The
         | few possible exceptions are pre-modern, very minor, or are
         | debatable whether the societies involved were in fact
         | democratic -- the first war in the Balkans, 19th century border
         | skirmishes in South America, the Western Allies against Finland
         | in WW II, and Iceland's conflict with the UK over fishing, are
         | some of the stronger counter-examples.
         | 
         | The effect seems real enough, but I'm not sure if it actually
         | means anything deeper, given the cultural similarity and degree
         | of trade among most democracies.
        
         | shigawire wrote:
         | Maybe more. Depends on the country.
        
         | warkdarrior wrote:
         | As many or even more wars, since public opinions are easily
         | swayed through appropriate news/meme campaigns.
        
         | torstenvl wrote:
         | If war were subject to referendum, only autocracies would wage
         | war. Such a world is not worth living in.
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-01 23:02 UTC)