[HN Gopher] LineageOS 18.1
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       LineageOS 18.1
        
       Author : danielg0
       Score  : 279 points
       Date   : 2021-04-01 08:06 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (lineageos.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (lineageos.org)
        
       | 2ion wrote:
       | Unfortunately, even if LOS supports my device (it does), it's not
       | a viable solution anymore for me as a primary smartphone OS (even
       | though I really appreciate some of its features -- used it for
       | years on previous phones) due to SafetyNet.
       | 
       | - Google Pay will stop working. - My banks' (multiple) primary
       | apps and pushTAN solutions will stop working.
       | 
       | and that's two of the most important things I use my phone for
       | nowadays. (Forced) bank MFA and payments. Also for voluntary MFA
       | with andOTP of course, because I'm not against MFA, just idiotic
       | pushTANs.
       | 
       | Ironically, devices which haven't had security fixes in 1 year
       | (thanks for nothing, Sony) will also pass safetynet, and the
       | mentioned apps' vendors will still deem them "secure".
       | 
       | Android security past device release remains a joke. Solutions
       | like LOS exist to keep devices running well past the pitiful life
       | span OEMs allow for, but they have become unviable.
        
         | yaomtc wrote:
         | What benefit does this restrictive bank offer over, say, a
         | credit union? Or another big bank without this app requirement?
        
           | 2ion wrote:
           | There are two such methods left in Germany, chipTAN and
           | photoTAN which (can) use seperate, external generator devices
           | which you can buy. If you have multiple banks however, like I
           | do, it's mixn'match. The last method left is smsTAN, which is
           | insecure by default, and it's the first being phased out
           | right now.
           | 
           | The move towards more elaborate TAN setups is due to PSD2 EU
           | regulations; banks usually choose the way their lawyers deem
           | watertight and product management considers acceptable in
           | terms of cost, although especially on the lawyer side,
           | interpretations of current law still differ. Which results in
           | different PIN/TAN flows even between the major players at the
           | moment.
        
           | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
           | In many countries, _all_ banks are moving towards apps that
           | require Google Play Services and passing Safety Net. (And a
           | diverse ecosystem of  "credit unions" is a USA-specific
           | thing.) Banks are phasing out other means of 2FA like code
           | cards or code calculators, and expecting all customers to
           | have an Android or Apple phone.
        
             | elric wrote:
             | That's obviously a stupid move by those banks. And if you
             | think so too, you should point it out to them. Your bank is
             | unlikely to read HN (hah!), but they are commercial
             | institutions and some of them might even listen to their
             | customers.
        
               | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
               | No, this was actually a pretty reasonable and expected
               | move on the part of the banks. They realized that
               | providing code cards or code calculators to customers
               | represented a expense that very few customers in our
               | modern age were taking advantage of, and so they
               | discontinued those programs. I love my LineageOS Android
               | phone and I also own a PinePhone now, but come on, let's
               | be reasonable and admit that we are so tiny a minority of
               | customers that we don't matter to banks.
        
               | elric wrote:
               | Sure, it's an expense, but it's one that provides actual
               | security. Instead of this "it runs on a phone and google
               | says it's secure"-nonsense. Banks know people's phones
               | rarely get updated.
               | 
               | When I started using online banking in what must have
               | been 1997 or so, I accessed the bank using a browser,
               | client side certificate and a passphrase. It seems like
               | ever since then, security has steadily declined in favour
               | of "ease of use". Which rubs me the wrong way, because we
               | really should have increased the ease of use of security
               | instead!
        
         | TeddyDD wrote:
         | Fortunately my bank app & Revolut works on my Lineage OS phone.
         | Google Pay won't work tho. I use Lineage for MicroG, so I can
         | even install apps from Play store. I wouldn't be able to use
         | LOS without it.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | > Ironically, devices which haven't had security fixes in 1
         | year (thanks for nothing, Sony) will also pass safetynet, and
         | the mentioned apps' vendors will still deem them "secure".
         | 
         | Yeah, that's what always got me - they'll act like rooting your
         | phone or installing a custom ROM makes it "insecure", but then
         | turn around and act like a phone is secure running an
         | arbitrarily old stock ROM that's little more than a pile of
         | known vulnerabilities. I even hit this with a company I worked
         | for - they could not grasp the idea that my phone with a
         | current patch level could possibly be safe, because I had root
         | on it... while seeing no problem with my having root on my
         | company laptop _and all of our servers_. Yeesh.
        
         | celsoazevedo wrote:
         | On some phones we can pass the SafetyNet test by using Magisk.
         | Enable Magisk Hide for the apps that use SafetyNet. Sometimes
         | you also need to add the Phone app to Magisk Hide (not sure
         | why) and/or "hide" the Magisk app with the built in toggle.
         | 
         | Obviously it's not something everyone wants to deal with, but
         | both my banking app and Google Pay works on my Asus Zenfone 6.
        
           | colordrops wrote:
           | How long until Magisk Hide doesn't work anymore though.
        
           | Cide wrote:
           | Fellow Zenfone 6 user here. Are you running LineageOS or
           | another rom? How are you finding it?
        
         | dartharva wrote:
         | Indeed. It's not even just banking apps - even my TSP's app
         | refuses to run on my Samsung phone now that I have tripped its
         | Knox counter. It's just a lazy and convenient approach to
         | prevent tampering.
        
           | 3np wrote:
           | Very much OT, but maybe it's worth a shot... I wasn't able to
           | do a full backup of my Galaxy (encrypted, stock, unrooted) so
           | installed TWRP. Now I'm stuck in the infamous boot loop and
           | can't get out. Knox is tripped. I kind of really need to get
           | in to get some files in there. Should have known better but
           | it's a bit frustrating that it was precisely trying to
           | perform a backup that made this happen. Can't find stock
           | firmware anywhere and even if I did I'm not sure if it's
           | possible to flash it without wiping ...
           | 
           | I don't suppose anything rings a bell?
        
             | dartharva wrote:
             | Sorry to hear that, I've been in the same situation for too
             | many times now. Yeah, recovering your files at that stage
             | is very likely impossible.
             | 
             | You _can_ get your stock firmware easily though, with any
             | of these tools:
             | 
             | Frija (GUI, recommended): https://forum.xda-
             | developers.com/t/tool-frija-samsung-firmwa...
             | 
             | Samloader: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/tool-
             | samloader-samfirm-fr...
             | 
             | samfirm.js: https://github.com/jesec/samfirm.js
        
       | codethief wrote:
       | I've been using LineageOS since the good ol' CyanogenMod days and
       | I am very grateful for how much work the developers put into it
       | day in and day out.
       | 
       | Thanks to them, I managed to get rid of Google Apps in my day-to-
       | day life almost[0] entirely and drastically improve privacy for
       | me: Instead of Google Play Services I use MicroG[1] and instead
       | of Play Store, I use Aurora Store[2] and F-Droid. For syncing
       | files there is Syncthing[3] and for backups there is
       | Seedvault[4]. To isolate apps I don't trust I use NetGuard[8] and
       | Shelter[9] and practically no internet-facing app has access to
       | my internal "SD card" on which my photos and documents reside. As
       | a bonus, getting rid of GApps and using LineageOS has increased
       | my phones' battery life and their overall lifetime tremendously.
       | (I've only owned three smartphones in my entire life, the
       | original T-Mobile G1, the HTC One M8 and the BQ Aquaris Pro.) I
       | couldn't be happier.
       | 
       | That being said, I've closely been following GrapheneOS[5]
       | because I find its additional security guarantees very
       | attractive. In fact, just a few hours ago my new Pixel 5 arrived
       | and I'm looking forward to giving it a try. Though I already know
       | I will miss MicroG... Maybe I'll end up building my own custom
       | Android ROM, using Hashbang or RattlesnakeOS[6, 7]?
       | 
       | Overall, I don't really understand people who criticize Android
       | for not being open while loudly claiming a "pure" Linux phone
       | would be so much better. (There was yet another discussion here
       | on HN just a few days ago.) Yes, Android is a not your typical
       | open-source project and clearly in the hands of Google. Yes, most
       | phone and chip manufacturers still haven't open-sourced their
       | hardware binary blobs. We definitely have to fight these fights.
       | But with a Linux phone I'd probably be struggling with window-
       | manager-related bugs in the worst possible moments (say, an
       | emergency call) and risk all my data getting stolen whenever I
       | install a new app.
       | 
       | As much as I like Linux - I dabbled with it the first time almost
       | two decades ago and have been using it as a daily driver for more
       | than a decade - but its stability and security guarantees are
       | orders of magnitude worse than Android's.
       | 
       | I secretly hope that Fuchsia will find its way to the desktop at
       | some point and be able to replace my Linux system.
       | 
       | [0]: I still use Google Maps every now and then
       | 
       | [1]: https://microg.org . See https://lineage.microg.org/ for
       | LineageOS images that come with MicroG pre-installed.
       | 
       | [2]: https://auroraoss.com/
       | 
       | [3]: https://syncthing.net
       | 
       | [4]: https://github.com/seedvault-app/seedvault
       | 
       | [5]: http://grapheneos.org/
       | 
       | [6]: https://github.com/hashbang/aosp-build
       | 
       | [7]: https://github.com/dan-v/rattlesnakeos-stack/
       | 
       | [8]: https://netguard.me/
       | 
       | [9]: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.typeblog.shelter/
        
         | blendergeek wrote:
         | > But with a Linux phone I'd probably be struggling with
         | window-manager-related bugs in the worst possible moments (say,
         | an emergency call)
         | 
         | Can confirm. This is a very real possibility.
         | 
         | > and risk all my data getting stolen whenever I install a new
         | app.
         | 
         | Where do you plan to get your apps from? If you stick to the
         | repos, this isn't an issue.
        
         | karlicoss wrote:
         | I mean, don't you risk all your data when you install an app on
         | your computer? Certainly, but it's not the reason to lock down
         | the computer experience for everyone.
         | 
         | I appreciate the 'apps as containers' by default. But it
         | sometimes makes using my phone unbearable. E.g. why can't I see
         | my own apps' settings or data (in /data/data) without rooting
         | my phone? Or why is my only default backup option is a blackbox
         | backup in google drive? (yes there is seedvault in Lineage, but
         | this already restricts you to certain phones). Why can't I use
         | symlinks (or at least bind mounts) so I can syncthing a single
         | directory instead of a bunch of scattered dirs like
         | Camera/DCIM; Downloads; Pictures; Android/data/app.name/, etc?
         | 
         | That said I agree that Linux on desktop could use better and
         | friendlier app containers as well. But I feel like the
         | security/malleability balance is much better on Linux, at least
         | for a technical user.
        
         | jhoho wrote:
         | CalyxOS might be worth a look!
         | 
         | It's available one for Pixels and the Mi A2 and offers seamless
         | updates, microG and a closed bootloader!
         | 
         | https://calyxos.org/
        
           | SubzeroCarnage wrote:
           | My project DivestOS supports bootloader locking, verified
           | boot, and OTA updates for many more legacy devices.
           | 
           | https://divestos.org
        
       | ttfxxcc wrote:
       | I wish I could donate a phone to a developer in order to get them
       | to support it. I had bad luck with unofficial roms.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Are you sure you can't? I'm pretty sure I've seen devs
         | literally saying that they'd support a device if people wanted
         | to donate one.
        
       | jackallis wrote:
       | Managed to, somehow, install 14.1 on my Galaxy S5 while ago.
       | Still stable and is great. Have not had the nerves to upgrade, as
       | it not as simple as pushing a botton, but for now it is awesome.
        
       | volongoto wrote:
       | This made me think about the Huawei devices that ship without
       | Google Play Services. But, looking at the list of supported
       | devices, I could not see any new Huawei phones. I wonder what the
       | reason for this lack of support could be... Is it because of
       | locked bootloaders?
        
         | foolmeonce wrote:
         | Older Huawei were pretty normal and you could request unlock
         | code, etc. I think they started to get more secretive/closed as
         | every random fact about their implementations could be made
         | news worthy by adding a suggestion of incompetence, pirating or
         | snooping purpose.
        
         | phh wrote:
         | Yup it's precisely because Huawei stopped providing bootloader
         | unlock. Before that, Huawei was on a good track to be
         | appreciated by developers. They had developers program (giving
         | away devices), great GSI support (which means easier to make
         | device specific ROM as well), Xiaomi's bang-per-buck. There's
         | still a bit of development around devices of that era, but now
         | it's pretty much dead, even though there are some ways to
         | unlock some not-too-new devices through DC Unlocker for
         | instance.
        
       | dotancohen wrote:
       | How well do Lineage or other custom ROMs work with devices that
       | are not explicitly supported? I've got a Samsung A50 that has the
       | absolute worst UI, even though I loved the UI on my Samsung Note
       | 3. Rather than ditch the perfectly fine hardware, I would like to
       | install a custom ROM on it. However the A50 is not on the list of
       | supported devices.
        
         | dekoruotas wrote:
         | Usually they list other supported ROMs on XDA Forum, but a
         | quick check there indicates to me that there are no AOSP ROMs
         | for A50. It is likely due to it using Exynos chip which
         | requires use of proprietary drivers.
        
           | foolmeonce wrote:
           | That still leaves the option of using a GSI of whichever
           | distribution.
           | 
           | https://github.com/phhusson/treble_experimentations/wiki/Sam.
           | ..
        
       | RealStickman_ wrote:
       | Still using LOS 16 on my OnePlus 3. I really should take the time
       | to update to the latest version.
        
       | _joel wrote:
       | Any recomendations for current spec phones that work with
       | lineage?
        
         | BelenusMordred wrote:
         | People here are saying Oneplus, but I would recommend Pixel 4/5
         | or Xiaomi Mi A3 with stock Android One to fallback on if you
         | don't like using LineageOS.
         | 
         | Oneplus have become quite end-user hostile lately. They used to
         | be quite good for this stuff but times do change.
         | 
         | If you go the Pixel route, there's also GrapheneOS (formerly
         | Copperhead). It offers a lot more security features, with of
         | course some tradeoffs when you make a phone _secure_.
         | 
         | https://grapheneos.org/
        
           | infogulch wrote:
           | It seems GrapheneOS recommends Pixel 5 or Pixel 4a 5G for the
           | longest expected support window. [1]
           | 
           | [1]: https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices
        
         | dekoruotas wrote:
         | OnePlus devices have been always recommended on their Reddit,
         | but personally I've been using a Xiaomi Mi 8 for nearly 2 years
         | with no issues.
        
         | jaimex2 wrote:
         | Anything from OnePlus, they're consistently friendly with the
         | custom rom scene.
        
           | gabegm wrote:
           | For some reason I can't find the 7T in their list for
           | supported devices.
        
           | pedro2 wrote:
           | They are -- but now with caveats: https://www.reddit.com/r/Li
           | neageOS/comments/cv5mhw/oneplus_6...
        
         | IntelMiner wrote:
         | I was hoping to port it to the LG Velvet, especially since LG
         | is debating leaving the cell phone space
         | 
         | Unfortunately they geolock unlocking their devices. European
         | models can be unlocked, Australian ones? Nope!
        
         | guilhas wrote:
         | I just settled on a pixel 3 xl. It has still one of the best
         | camera quality available. Got it on ebay for 135EUR. OS
         | Lineageos microg ROM. But kept stock camera app.
         | 
         | I was not happy with the selfie quality on the pixel 3a xl
         | although I would have liked the audio jack.
        
           | sm4rk0 wrote:
           | You obviously didn't follow the OnePlus' motto (:
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Most Motorola phones have good support for custom ROMs,
         | although you should of course check your specific model against
         | lineage's list or XDA before buying it. In particular, Motorola
         | doesn't do anything to prevent you unlocking the bootloader;
         | you just get an unlock request code from fastboot, plug it in
         | to their website to get an unlock code, and then give that back
         | to the phone over fastboot and your bootloader is unlocked.
         | They also have SD cards and 3.5mm audio jacks on most (all?)
         | models, if you care about that. The only downside that I recall
         | off the top of my head is that their NFC support is really
         | spotty; a few models have it, but most don't.
        
           | retrac wrote:
           | Yes. In particular, the Motorola budget series devices are
           | one of the best options for an unlocked phone under $100 for
           | Lineage OS.
        
         | benevol wrote:
         | Definitely Fairphone: https://www.fairphone.com/en
        
           | yellowapple wrote:
           | I'd be a Fairphone customer right now if they shipped to the
           | US.
        
           | papaf wrote:
           | I installed Lineage 17.1 on a Fairphone 2 yesterday. If only
           | I had waited one more day...
           | 
           | I can +1 the recommendation though. Lineage runs much better
           | than the original OS and breathes life into what would be
           | e-waste.
        
       | skbt wrote:
       | It is interesting that oneplus one and oneplus 3 are getting 18.1
       | while oneplus 2 is not
        
         | celsoazevedo wrote:
         | The OnePlus 2 was a bad phone overall. It didn't sell as well
         | as the OnePlus 1, had the infamous Snapdragon 810 and the
         | modding community was never that strong. All this ends up
         | affecting long term support.
        
         | nobodywasishere wrote:
         | This is all volunteer based, so if a device isn't supported,
         | it's because no one stepped up to maintain it
        
         | hitchhikerr wrote:
         | The OnePlus 2 was pretty unpopular because it didn't have an
         | NFC chip, so there's probably no one who owns one who is
         | willing to maintain it.
        
       | Darmody wrote:
       | I bought a Poco F3 because it is impossible to find any other
       | decent brand with similar specs without paying twice as much.
       | 
       | The first thing I'll do as soon as there's a LineageOS ROM
       | available is installing it and getting rid of all the crap the
       | phone comes with.
        
       | searchableguy wrote:
       | > LineageOS has a feature that helps people protect their privacy
       | when calling helpline and hotline numbers by hiding the calls
       | from the logs.
       | 
       | > LineageOS 18.1 introduces a helpline contact list (just look at
       | the 3-dot menu in the dialer to find it). In addition to quickly
       | being able to find and call any of these numbers, we also show
       | names, languages, websites, and categories for many of them.
       | 
       | Both are interesting UX consideration.
        
         | boomboomsubban wrote:
         | >LineageOS has a feature that helps people protect their
         | privacy when calling helpline and hotline numbers by hiding the
         | calls from the logs.
         | 
         | I love that there's a completely real and sincere justification
         | for the feature, people suffering from issues may want/need to
         | hide their help line contacts, but everyone involved has to
         | know 90% of it's use will be sex lines.
        
           | matthberg wrote:
           | The hiding is based on a listing of sensitive phone numbers,
           | which they've collected internationally. So not just allowing
           | willy-nilly number hiding like you suggest.
           | 
           | https://github.com/LineageOS/android_vendor_lineage/blob/lin.
           | ..
        
       | morpheusbruh wrote:
       | Can't wait to check it out.
        
       | benevol wrote:
       | Thank you so much to everybody who works on LineageOS! You are so
       | awesome! I LOVE it!
        
       | Flex247A wrote:
       | I am using an unofficial build of LineageOS 14.1 on my 6 year old
       | tablet (Mi PAD 1 'mocha'). After using it for over a month, the
       | ROM is amazingly stable.
       | 
       | The earlier MiUi which the tablet shipped with (7.5.2 Android
       | KitKat) had problems with memory management. For some reason, the
       | 2GB RAM was partitioned into two parts, one for the OS and the
       | other for the running apps. But LineageOS does not have this
       | problem, and it is much quicker than when I bought it!
       | 
       | I use FDroid to install apps and am very satisfied with it.
       | NewPipe is excellent and videos can easily play at 1080p 60fps
       | when earlier, the tablet used to lag on 480p videos.
       | 
       | I have changed the governor to powersave and turned on doze mode.
       | Amazingly, this 6 year old tablet can hold charge for over a
       | week! Even when watching videos at 1080p, the device does not
       | heat up.
       | 
       | More power to the LineageOS team and XDADevelopers!
       | 
       | EDIT: ROM version
        
         | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
         | Hello... I own a mi pad 1 and its running miui with android 3
         | or 4 I think.
         | 
         | Newpipe works but barely. Same for other stuff. Last year I got
         | China rom I guess but that changed the ui.
         | 
         | Can you point me where to get started? I would love to use this
         | device as its currently just a dump tablet with limited
         | features.
        
           | Flex247A wrote:
           | Sure!
           | 
           | Actually MIUI has Android 4.4.2 KitKat.
           | 
           | I repartitioned the ROM partition by following this guide:
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7_jrw9C9Pg
           | 
           | And downloaded the ROM files form here:
           | 
           | https://forum.xda-
           | developers.com/t/unofficial-14-1-7-1-2-201...
           | 
           | China ROM is really bad as it can lead to black screen with
           | the tablet becoming unresponsive.
        
             | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
             | What is the lineageos you use based on? What android
             | version?
        
               | Flex247A wrote:
               | Version 7 Nougat
        
         | Haemm0r wrote:
         | It is still possible to get OTA Updates for the Xperia Z2
         | Tablet (Snapdragon 800) using the AICP Rom too. I'm really glad
         | that I bought this device.. Link: https://forum.xda-
         | developers.com/t/rom-official-aicp-15-0-q1...
        
           | techrat wrote:
           | > It is still possible to get OTA Updates for the
           | 
           | ...for as long as the maintainer continues to support the
           | device. And maintainers are all volunteers.
        
             | Haemm0r wrote:
             | ... of which I am aware of as it is a "custom rom". Which
             | means it is nothing different to what the OP is using.
        
         | NotPavlovsDog wrote:
         | I have been reviewing security for unofficial builds, and it's
         | pretty abysmal, same for GPL compliance by the ROM creators.
         | Could you share how you reviewed security for the unofficial
         | ROM?
         | 
         | I'm putting a list of actions to take, but so far it appears it
         | will take days to review ROMS, alternatively download a rom,
         | review what is in it and build from Lineage official source,
         | with Lineage having the better privacy record ....
         | 
         | Some things I would need to check:
         | 
         | - The binary blobs at least match the originals, for example
         | binaries from xiaomi
         | 
         | - Included applications that DO publish their source match the
         | published source / binaries built from said source
         | 
         | - Permissions are sane/correct and don't have too many 777
         | where it is not needed, which is often set for convenience
         | during development
         | 
         | - That developers are aware and transparent about any telemetry
         | or spyware, which appears to receive a rather cavalier approach
         | from many developers.
         | 
         | This is just one example of developer hostility and
         | incompetence on the xiaomi eu rom community when asked about
         | spyware: https://xiaomi.eu/community/threads/why-does-xiaomi-
         | eu-rom-t...
         | 
         | There are many more to be found at the XDA forum, under custom
         | roms.
         | 
         | There are also some older discussions on HN, xiaomi related,
         | but it does bring up the larger point - how many of the
         | applications and core functionality in custom roms is spyware ?
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26306661
        
         | ZeWaren wrote:
         | I have a similar experience with my Pixel 2 XL.
         | 
         | The Lineage build with power saving mode stays up 2-3 days with
         | active use.
         | 
         | I'm extremely satisfied by it. Kudos to the Lineage team!
        
       | BarbaryCoast wrote:
       | You know, when Google said Android 11 and up would require A/B
       | firmware, I ditched my beloved OnePlus One, and bought a OnePlus
       | 6 instead.
       | 
       | Now I see that the One is getting Android 11, but there's no sign
       | of a build for the 6. It's probably coming, but I find it ironic
       | that the phone that "wouldn't be supported" has a zero-day build,
       | but the phone that _is_ supported doesn't have one (yet).
        
         | tandr wrote:
         | "One" is a matter of pride for the Lineage, as it was one of
         | the phones that was originally shipped with Cyanogen (MOD?). So
         | there is a community that continues to support it. (And I also
         | think it is also a "f... you" statement to all of these who
         | said "the hardware is too old to support newer versions of
         | Android")
        
       | flippinburgers wrote:
       | I am under the impression that even using something like this
       | will leave a person open to vulnerabilities. Is that the case? In
       | other words, some parts of the system (firmware etc) cannot be
       | upgraded.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Using a custom rom usually puts you in an equal or better
         | position compared to stock. If the vendor releases a new
         | version with updated firmware blobs, then lineage can just
         | update to use those blobs, but for the parts that lineage can
         | patch (which is most of the OS, just not some low-level drivers
         | and such) it's usually far more up to date than what the
         | manufacturer ships, and will only become more so as the
         | manufacturer drops support after a few months. Exceptions
         | exist, but they're rare.
        
       | Maakuth wrote:
       | Wow, Nexus 7 2013 is still supported. For reference, it was a
       | budget tablet with $269 MSRP, introduced eight years ago! I've
       | been running some older LineageOS build on mine, but I think I'm
       | going to do the repartitioning and install the latest and
       | greatest. It is admittedly becoming a bit sluggish with modern
       | apps.
        
         | IntelMiner wrote:
         | I've been holding on to whichever build was based on Android 8
         | 
         | Mostly because it was the last one that allowed a custom kernel
         | with overclocking support. At 2Ghz the Nexus 7 is still
         | absolutely buttery smooth for most uses
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | Looks like it needs to be repartitioned, which would be rather
         | non-trivial.
        
         | JohnTHaller wrote:
         | Nexus 7 2013 was dropped by LineageOS in Feb 2019. It was
         | recently picked back up again as a newer version but it
         | requires manually re-partitioning the storage using a lot of
         | command line entry while connected via ADB. It is not for the
         | faint of heart.
        
         | goffi wrote:
         | I have one and I'm using Lineage OS 17.1, and it's absolutely
         | smooth, working great. Thanks a lot for people behind that,
         | this tablet is perfect for our usage (music, radio, web, and
         | some apps + test device for app development), and no need to
         | buy a new one and produce more electronic waste.
         | 
         | I did the move after the stock rom went to an infinite loop
         | that I could not recover.
        
       | helfire wrote:
       | Maybe they are still building but I don't see a download for the
       | Pixel 2 (walleye) for 18.1 - just nightly 17.1
        
         | tosteris wrote:
         | Still building: https://www.lineageoslog.com/18.1/walleye
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | dang wrote:
       | If curious, past threads:
       | 
       |  _Show HN: A Mashup to find LineageOS supported phones that are
       | repairable_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25592066 - Dec
       | 2020 (48 comments)
       | 
       |  _IodeOS = LineageOS 17.1 and MicroG and adblocker_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25405552 - Dec 2020 (5
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _LineageOS with F-Droid and no Google Apps_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25253091 - Nov 2020 (5
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Hello, LineageOS 17.1_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22756346 - April 2020 (106
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _LineageOS Android Distribution_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21490849 - Nov 2019 (99
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _LineageOS 16.0_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19277910
       | - March 2019 (107 comments)
       | 
       |  _Introducing the LineageOS SDK_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16638732 - March 2018 (105
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _LineageOS for microG - Access Google services without closed
       | software_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15617615 - Nov
       | 2017 (198 comments)
       | 
       |  _Update and Build Prep_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13454472 - Jan 2017 (19
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _LineageOS: Infrastructure Status and Official Builds_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13305081 - Jan 2017 (11
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _LineageOS will be a continuation of what CyanogenMod was_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13254520 - Dec 2016 (114
       | comments)
       | 
       | Other interesting ones?
        
       | Neil44 wrote:
       | Love these guys work. Turning devices too old and slow into
       | useful devices again.
        
         | vanderZwan wrote:
         | Proving once again that it's not the devices that are slow but
         | the stuff running on it
        
         | dmos62 wrote:
         | Seconded. Thanks to these guys I'm still using an 8 year old
         | phone as my daily driver. Galaxy S4. Only thing that went so
         | far is the battery.
        
         | danielg0 wrote:
         | Yeah, it's great. I'm using a Moto G3 from 2015 that continues
         | to get weekly updates (although still on 17.1 at the moment)
         | and I have no complaints. Only app with any issues is Firefox
         | for Mobile - sometimes a single webpage will use up all the RAM
         | and crash repeatedly - so I've changed to the stock browser.
        
         | jeffchien wrote:
         | Seconding the "turning _current_ devices into useful devices"
         | sentiment too. My Samsung T720 (Tablet S5e) had 15-20GB main
         | storage capacity with the stock ROM's partition scheme, but
         | 50GB with LineageOS. Absolutely ridiculous. I'd never buy a
         | tablet without LineageOS support.
        
         | Semaphor wrote:
         | Turning current devices into useful devices as well ;)
         | 
         | Since my first Android (HTC Desire Z) I have always installed
         | Cyanogenmod/LineageOS (or whatever came before) right after
         | getting the device.
        
       | Scene_Cast2 wrote:
       | Google Trends is telling me that "peak modding" for android was
       | around 2014, and has steadily been decreasing since. [0]
       | 
       | What happened since then? Are people more satisfied with stock
       | ROMs and see less use for them? FWIW, my own phone is on
       | LineageOS, and love the freedom it provides.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2009-11-01%202...
        
         | JeremyNT wrote:
         | Personally, the Pixel line has greatly reduced the need for
         | third party distributions, which I used primarily to get rid of
         | vendor garbage. Pixels are the only phones I will buy now.
         | 
         | Pixels still have junk - but it's only Google's junk. There's
         | value in getting rid of the base image and switching to
         | LineageOS (or another distribution) but the situation isn't so
         | dire as it is with other vendors.
         | 
         | I love that LineageOS is still going strong and it fills a huge
         | gap once official software updates cease. I just no longer view
         | it as a hard requirement.
        
         | arbitrage wrote:
         | > Google Trends is telling me that "peak modding" for android
         | was around 2014
         | 
         | Netcraft confirms it.
        
         | nfriedly wrote:
         | Yea, I'd say stock ROMs are definitely improving. I used to mod
         | phones they day I got them. Then I got a Pixel 2 and since then
         | I've just left it on stock firmware.
         | 
         | I'm probably going to have to go back to a custom ROM sometime
         | soon, now that Google has stopped supporting it... but it was
         | perfectly fine to use as-is for the past 3 years.
        
         | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
         | The decay and death of CyanogenMod.
         | 
         | Lineage never achieved the same level of accessibility. It
         | always felt like you had to dig through a wasteland of forum
         | posts for random "unofficial" builds where the camera wouldn't
         | work or LTE wouldn't work or bluetooth wouldn't work or
         | Snapchat wouldn't work.
        
           | jlkuester7 wrote:
           | Hmm, that has not been my experience with Lineage at all.
           | Over the last couple of years I have flashed several devices
           | with Lineage and it has always worked almost seamlessly.
           | Maybe the difference is that these devices have mostly just
           | been popular Nexus/Pixel with official builds. (Except for my
           | Nexus 7 where I flashed an unofficial build since Lineage no
           | longer official supports the greatest tablet ever made
           | _shakes fist angrily_ )
        
             | LanternLight83 wrote:
             | From the article posted: >>> Build roster >>> Added 18.1
             | devices >>> Google Nexus 7 2013 (Wi-Fi, Repartitioned)
             | 
             | Sure soujd like official support for 18.1 on the Nexus 7 is
             | available! Commentors below note that the repartitioning
             | process required for these newly supported versions can be
             | tricky, but that doesn't scare me off, and I'll be taking
             | to updating mine this weekend c:
        
               | jlkuester7 wrote:
               | Woah! Back by popular demand! That is awesome!
        
         | johnnycerberus wrote:
         | My 2 cents, I've abandoned custom ROMs (circa 2015) because
         | many financial apps that I was using were very anxious when it
         | came to my OS and they stopped working. Even multiplayer games
         | stopped running and required me to use a stock version, without
         | root. The majority of games on mobile are masked casinos, a
         | pure microtransaction fest so they behave like actual financial
         | apps.
        
         | arsome wrote:
         | A lot happened - many more recent phones, especially from big
         | brands like Samsung heavily restrict unlocking of their
         | bootloaders. Google implemented SafetyNet, meaning anyone who
         | wants to use things like Google Pay, Netflix, even Pokemon Go
         | and others now has to jump through hoops. Additionally, things
         | like Netflix are still restricted from HD playback on unlocked
         | devices due to hardware DRM.
         | 
         | Android has also gotten a lot better - many of the
         | modifications people were doing just aren't as necessary
         | anymore, most of the features I used from GravityBox back in
         | the day are now part of the OS. The difference between major
         | versions has dwindled. Back in 2014 we had some of the most
         | hackable devices just starting to age out when new Android
         | releases with major changes were hitting and manufacturers
         | refusing to support them.
         | 
         | Personally I still root and stick to Pixel and OnePlus devices
         | where it's easy to do so. Magisk makes it relatively easy to
         | achieve a safetynet bypass and having things like Advanced
         | Charging Controller around means my device is going to last for
         | years longer, but it's no longer as simple as it once was. With
         | the Android improvements though it's hard for even me to
         | rationalize the need to load custom ROMs until my manufacturer
         | has abandoned my device though.
        
           | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
           | Plus, several countries have announced that their COVID
           | vaccination passports will exist mainly in app form, since
           | paper certificates are supposedly too easy to forge. Since
           | only a tiny minority of techies like us around here run
           | alternative Android images and app developers have come to
           | expect Google Play Services everywhere, it is almost certain
           | that those COVID passport apps will require Play Services (or
           | even Safety Net, which means MicroG wouldn't be a
           | workaround).
        
           | birksherty wrote:
           | I still root for fine tuned privacy (through xprivacyLua) and
           | app backups (through titanium backup). These 2 apps provide
           | features that are not available in any other os.
        
             | arsome wrote:
             | Interesting, looks like there's an Xposed solution that
             | passes safetynet easily these days. Might have to give
             | XPrivacyLua a proper go.
        
               | _e wrote:
               | I have used XPrivacyLua for years. It is great but not
               | perfect.
               | 
               | Daniel Micay,author of GrapheneOS (an Android fork),
               | pointed out some shortcomings of XPrivacyLua on
               | reddit[0]:
               | 
               | You do probably want the ability to force apps to see
               | fake data, but this doesn't do that. It's a client-side
               | check inserted into the app that the app can bypass (even
               | unintentionally, by using a different client-side
               | implementation) or disable.
               | 
               | It does not provide any isolation and cannot
               | fundamentally improve privacy / security because it's
               | based on client side checks, which is not a working
               | approach. It relies on apps not accessing the data via
               | other approaches or alternate implementations of the
               | client-side code, which isn't uncommon. Apps can also
               | detect it and simply work around it directly. This will
               | only give you a false sense of privacy / security. Apps
               | will likely use the fake data for their user-facing
               | functionality, making you think that it works, but a
               | tracking SDK bundled with the app can easily bypass this
               | and harvest your data if you allow the permissions via
               | the OS. This is harmful approach...
               | 
               | [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/ch5kv8/i
               | s_magis...
        
           | colordrops wrote:
           | Android is still horrible until you can control background
           | activity or at least background network traffic. There is no
           | way to shut those off completely. I assume this is an
           | intentional decision by google as it would severely limit the
           | platform for analytics and marketing.
        
             | NotPavlovsDog wrote:
             | A simple approach without root is using a fake VPN blocker
             | such as Blokada (FOSS) https://blokada.org/
             | 
             | Scary to see all the hits. For _complete_ - requires a lot
             | of work and the custom ROM builders do not appear to be so
             | interested.
        
               | colordrops wrote:
               | I do use a fake VPN blocker, and that's how I found out
               | that you can't do it. You can either block completely, or
               | you have to allow background network. There needs to be a
               | "only allow data while in foreground" but google is a
               | sociopathic company (as are most public companies) and
               | wouldn't do something like this that is user friendly but
               | revenue unfriendly.
        
           | tumblewit wrote:
           | DRM is a problem everywhere including linux and running
           | ChromiumOS. There is a protected path from the stream to the
           | display that needs to be "certified" in order to support
           | something like 1080p. I guess for payments it's similar. Its
           | really unnecessary and waste of resources imo. But creators
           | probably want some kind of assurances and so we are stuck
           | with it.
        
             | ddalex wrote:
             | > payments it's similar
             | 
             | Without the protected path, how do you know that a
             | malicious program doesn't use a low-level API to start a
             | payment from your account without you noticing ?
        
               | berdario wrote:
               | 1- You don't, but it's not a real problem since non-
               | cryptocurrency payments are reversible and trackable, so
               | scammers won't use them. They'll rather exploit analog
               | ways to get money out of you, recent example:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrKW58MS12g#t=7m18s
               | 
               | 2- You don't, but sandboxing should be enough to isolate
               | untrustworthy apps from OS-level APIs that could do what
               | you're afraid of.
        
             | skynet-9000 wrote:
             | You are forgetting that DRM stopped all that piracy that
             | bankrupted the movie industry. That's also why there were
             | so few movies released in the last 15 months or so.
             | 
             | It really debunks that myth that open source software could
             | ever handle the strong encryption that's so desperately
             | needed to protect new movies and TV shows from showing up
             | on The Pirate Bay.
             | 
             | I for one welcome this cogent and secure technological
             | response to a market issue.
        
               | tumblewit wrote:
               | More like ISP StreamingService partnership did this since
               | it is far cheaper for them to streaming from edge boxes
               | at their own CDNs than p2p which hurt the ISPs because
               | they have to pay for peering bandwidth. Also streaming
               | services are just too mature these days and easy to use
               | compared to p2p. There are plenty of free licence movies
               | and tv shows but even those prefer streaming platform
               | over p2p. It has almost nothing to do with DRM.
        
               | argon0 wrote:
               | I don't know what you're talking about. As long as you
               | can videotape a screen in a dark room and get audio out a
               | 3.5mm jack, piracy will continue. The only way to prevent
               | piracy is either:
               | 
               | A) only allow movies to be played in theaters
               | 
               | B) watermark all content, and vigorously track down
               | freeloaders based on the watermarks
               | 
               | You can still find most movies/TV/books/music for free on
               | the open web as long as you use a search engine other
               | than google.
        
               | oooooooooooow wrote:
               | I call nonsense on this one. Anything that's on current
               | streaming services (especially the popular stuff, aka the
               | money makers) can be easily found on p2p networks. DRM
               | has never won a single battle that I know of.
               | 
               | These services are not successful because of exclusivity,
               | but because of convenience, feature richness, legality,
               | speed of access... in other words they are worth the
               | price.
               | 
               | It's important to be aware of this: the media streaming
               | landscape becoming more and more fragmented directly
               | impacts the most important reason why people are paying
               | for these (convenience), which could lead to a harsh
               | reality check for production companies.
        
               | vorpalhex wrote:
               | You're going to get so many responses missing your
               | sarcasm.
        
               | skynet-9000 wrote:
               | True. :) but adding /s is not as much fun, especially on
               | April 1st.
        
               | Qwertious wrote:
               | Pretending to be an idiot is not a prank. Idiots are
               | normal, nobody is a fool for thinking the person saying
               | idiotic things on the internet genuinely is an idiot.
        
               | skynet-9000 wrote:
               | I'd like to take a moment and refute these silly
               | arguments that I made.
               | 
               | > You are forgetting that DRM stopped all that piracy
               | that bankrupted the movie industry. That's also why there
               | were so few movies released in the last 15 months or so.
               | 
               | DRM didn't stop anything, and the movie industry is not
               | bankrupt.
               | 
               | One could easily argue that there might be other reasons
               | why few movies were released since the start of 2019.
               | 
               | > It really debunks that myth that open source software
               | could ever handle the strong encryption that's so
               | desperately needed to protect new movies and TV shows
               | from showing up on The Pirate Bay.
               | 
               | The _myth_? Do you realize that literally every single
               | web browser is built on an open source foundation? And
               | how is decryption in the browser going to keep a
               | determined person from grabbing the screen output or even
               | grabbing the keys?
               | 
               | Remember, not your keys, not your lock.
               | 
               | > I for one welcome this cogent and secure technological
               | response to a market issue.
               | 
               | Why would a technological response be appropriate for a
               | market issue?
        
               | eptcyka wrote:
               | Bankrupting? When has a Hollywood movie not been a
               | massive success in viewership but a massive loss on the
               | balance sheet? I wouldn't trust Hollywood accountants.
        
               | sumtechguy wrote:
               | Even star wars was a failure.
        
         | techrat wrote:
         | For me it was because more devices were coming with unlockable
         | bootloaders and stock roms that didn't suck. Motorola is a good
         | example: Very minimal bloatware and all of their devices come
         | with unlocked bootloaders off-carrier now. This means the most
         | I need to do is install Magisk. No need for a third party rom
         | when stock is nearly as clean.
        
         | astrod wrote:
         | I personally lost the appeal once Android One devices became
         | more available.
        
         | dartharva wrote:
         | Google and OEMs gradually kept adding mechanisms that
         | discouraged ROM tampering by locking features, etc.
         | 
         | Many apps nowadays refuse to run on phones that aren't using
         | authentic OEM software. With every new version, the tradeoff
         | kept getting steeper for rooting or customizing Android phones.
         | Also, Android has huge fragmentation with a large diversity of
         | devices one has to cater to if someone wants to release a
         | customized ROM.
        
         | sigmar wrote:
         | I have a unique perspective as someone that has maintained
         | unofficial builds for LineageOS, and used both CM and LineageOS
         | as daily drivers. I stick with stock pixel these days for
         | various reasons, mostly security. I think many users of
         | aftermarket firmware were trying to get rid of the awful stock
         | apps (browsers, keyboards, mem hogs) that manufacturers and
         | cell service providers forced onto users. As Android has
         | matured, Google has been enforcing stricter rules for what
         | vendors put on phones. Also newer android versions allow you to
         | uninstall much of the preinstalled apps. That could explain
         | part of the decrease.
        
         | therealmarv wrote:
         | For me it was fintech apps. They all stop working on Android
         | mods.
        
           | azalemeth wrote:
           | I just left one of my financial services providers over this.
           | I could use Magisk and get around the check. I wrote them a
           | detailed email highlighting how using LineageOS meant that I
           | got updates for my post-EOL device and it was _more_ secure.
           | The 1st level tech support guy agreed with me and forwarded
           | it to his boss. His boss closed the ticket without a
           | response. I moved my account.
        
         | rcxdude wrote:
         | Stock ROMs have gotten better, modding had gotten less
         | convenient. Safetynet is a huge problem there, especially for
         | fully custom ROMs (there's workarounds which allow you to root
         | an OEM ROM and still pass safetynet most of the time but for a
         | custom ROM you're SOL and they often aren't even trying due to
         | fearing google's wrath). Safetynet especially is really bad:
         | it's not good enough to actually give a meaningful level of
         | protection against malware or modifications, but it is good
         | enough to basically make it not worth the while of running a
         | custom ROM.
        
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