[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Where do you find potential customers to val...
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       Ask HN: Where do you find potential customers to validate your idea
       / MVP?
        
       Where do you find people to validate your idea / MVP and get
       feedback from? I've been building something over the past year that
       primarily scratches my own itch and I'm getting ready to use it
       myself but I was wondering how I could see if other people are
       interested in this as well.  I've read about landing pages and MVPs
       so that's kinda what I did: I've made something small, usable, that
       solves a single problem with myself as my user persona (i.e.
       scratching my own itch).  The problem I'm running into now is that
       I can't seem to gather any useful feedback and I don't know where
       to get that feedback, or how to get it. There are a few people
       registered on my site but none actually active enough for me to try
       and reach out to them.  How do you get feedback on your project /
       MVP without spamming HN or reddit in the hopes that one or two
       people leave a comment?  P.S. A fiverr clone for product owners or
       analysts might be what I'm looking for here.
        
       Author : showsover
       Score  : 196 points
       Date   : 2021-03-31 08:02 UTC (1 days ago)
        
       | mindcrime wrote:
       | Start with your personal social circle, and/or 1st level
       | referrals _from_ your personal social circle. It 's what Steve
       | Blank calls "Friendly First Contacts". If you can't figure out a
       | way to get useful feedback / sign of a reason to move forward
       | from this group, then pivot or give up.
       | 
       | The other option is "spend money to blast your thing to a wide
       | audience and hope for the best." Buy Reddit ads, Facebook ads,
       | LinkedIn ads, Google ads, whatever. The downside to this is: it
       | costs money (potentially a lot) and doesn't generate necessarily
       | generate quality feedback because the people you're targeting
       | aren't invested in helping you.
       | 
       | Also: read _The Four Steps to the Epiphany_ or _The Startup Owner
       | 's Manual_.
        
         | wiggumspiggums wrote:
         | +1 for 1st level referrals. But folks within your own social
         | circle can be tricky because it might be hard to figure out
         | their true opinion if your idea sucks. When a friend has sought
         | my feedback, I find myself balancing between trying to be
         | honest with being supportive and open-minded. I'm sure people
         | have done the same to me.
        
           | mindcrime wrote:
           | Agreed. That's one reason the 1st level referrals are so
           | valuable. They represent people where you have a nice solid,
           | warm introduction, but yet they aren't your personal friends,
           | and won't necessarily feel the need to lie to you to protect
           | your feelings.
           | 
           | That said, I think part of the trick is to not just ask "do
           | you think this idea sucks or not", but rather to ask probing
           | questions that, in and of themselves, seem totally innocuous
           | - but which will tell you if your idea has value or not.
           | Figuring out how to that is part art / part science, and I
           | can't claim to have completely mastered it myself either TBH.
           | Still working on it...
        
         | cmdr2 wrote:
         | This worked better for me too, so far. But it may depend on
         | what the OP is working on. I'm in a similar situation as the
         | OP, and asked people I know if they know anyone in the target
         | or related fields. And then further asked those people if they
         | knew anyone, at the end of the call. I'm still in the middle of
         | this process right now, so let's see how it goes.
         | 
         | I don't ask if they think my product is a good idea. I ask
         | questions about how they work, delve deep into the mundane
         | details of their work, understand what the challenges are.
         | Finally I make my own assessment of whether my product will
         | truly be valuable to them. I do plan on pitching to some of
         | them later, once I've a fairly good understanding of how my
         | target users work.
         | 
         | Importantly, I was clear with everyone (including my friends)
         | that I wasn't selling or pitching anything, and that my goal
         | was to understand how the target users work. The product idea I
         | have is just the context explained in the first 2-3 mins, the
         | rest of the call is just listening and understanding their
         | workflow. The conversations usually tend to be 30 mins to 1 hr.
         | 
         | +100 for 'Four Steps to the Epiphany'. All of what I did above
         | was lifted straight from that book. I've been internalizing it
         | for years, and still fail to follow it properly. It's an
         | amazing book :)
        
           | mindcrime wrote:
           | _I don 't ask if they think my product is a good idea. I ask
           | questions about how they work, delve deep into the mundane
           | details of their work, understand what the challenges are.
           | Finally I make my own assessment of whether my product will
           | truly be valuable to them. I do plan on pitching to some of
           | them later, once I've a fairly good understanding of how my
           | target users work._
           | 
           | I feel like that's the right way to do it. Those initial
           | early calls aren't "sales calls" per-se, but depending on
           | what you learn, you may well circle back to those people and
           | try to sell them something later in the process.
           | 
           |  _All of what I did above was lifted straight from that book.
           | I 've been internalizing it for years, and still fail to
           | follow it properly._
           | 
           | Same here. I have followed parts of it pretty closely at
           | times, but it's hard to discipline yourself to stick to that
           | more patient, rigorous approach sometimes. Too often I've
           | been guilty of falling back into the conceit of thinking "of
           | _course_ this is a good idea " and starting to build stuff
           | just because I convinced myself. :-(
        
       | hirokib wrote:
       | Honestly for us (https://butterflylabs.gitlab.io/api-
       | documentation) we just cold emailed a large number of folks we
       | thought were our target demographic. Basically LinkedIn, look for
       | product managers who are mid-level, and reach out. We got our
       | first two customers from there on our MVP. The thing to keep in
       | mind is if your MVP would solve a real problem, usually folks
       | will be willing to try your solution because it's something they
       | really need. Otherwise your product is just a nice to have and
       | you're probably close to but not quite hitting the right problem
       | spot.
        
       | forgotmysn wrote:
       | for B2B/Enterprise, investors or board members can usually open
       | some doors
        
       | jareklupinski wrote:
       | advertise; once you have something you are ready to charge for,
       | work with someone well-versed in sales and marketing to get your
       | product's name out there in front of people who may pay for it
        
       | martin-adams wrote:
       | I'm going through this with the app I'm building in public. The
       | things I've done that work well are:
       | 
       | 1. Build in public--I'm using twitter heavily to share the
       | journey, progress, etc. I've optimised my twitter profile to make
       | it super clear what I'm doing. https://twitter.com/Martin_Adams
       | 
       | 2. YouTube. I'm creating deep, genuinely helpful videos aimed
       | directly at users who have a need and are searching for problem
       | in the direct space my product fit in. I'm creating videos
       | teaching how to use competitor products with an opportunity to
       | introduce what I'm building. I don't think there's any platform
       | as accessible to tap into active search results. Here's an
       | example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6qfrRVUOO8
       | 
       | 3. Funnel people to join your mailing list. I'm using ConvertKit
       | and now averaging about 5 people per day just from the above two
       | actions. My record is two days with 19 people dropping their
       | email in. I have 124 people on my email list who are now
       | interested and relevant to my project due to the YouTube content.
       | My landing page is here: https://join.flowtelic.com.
       | 
       | 4. Reply to other people on HN, Reddit, etc and try to be
       | genuinely helpful with an opportunity to introduce what you're
       | doing. This reply is an example of that.
       | 
       | From there you can chat to people on Twitter and email your
       | mailing list directly for feedback.
        
         | suyash wrote:
         | takes lot of courage to build in public, kudos!
        
           | jcadam wrote:
           | Yes, especially when you know its time to abandon a project
           | because it's not getting any traction - after you've been
           | telling everyone about it for months. Should keep in mind
           | nobody else is going to think much about your failed project
           | but you :)
        
         | stevenhuang wrote:
         | Looks like a great, well-polished note taking app.
         | 
         | Especially like the simple pricing and no vendor lock in.
         | 
         | Well done, might take this for a spin sometime.
         | 
         | https://obsidian.md
        
       | sebg wrote:
       | Huge books/blog posts have been written about this. Maybe let's
       | start with your product area and/or what it solves for you and we
       | can help you from there?
        
       | dyeje wrote:
       | If you don't know where your potential customer are, do you
       | really know the problem space well enough to build something?
        
       | JamesBarney wrote:
       | For OP: What is your product and who is your target audience?
       | 
       | Generally ways you find users are
       | 
       | outbound: find potential users then call/email them.
       | 
       | Inbound: find out what your potential users are searching for
       | 
       | Community: find online communities where your potential users
       | hang out
       | 
       | For other people besides poster who are earlier in this process.
       | Figure out your marketing/sales/go to market strategy before you
       | start coding.
        
       | mdip wrote:
       | The specifics of what you're product does will partly guide your
       | approach, and I couldn't get enough information from the context
       | to be sure that my advice will be appropriate, but I'll share
       | what experiences I do have.
       | 
       | First -- what are you looking for with regard to feedback? Are
       | you looking for someone to tell you that your product solves the
       | same problem for them, too? Are you looking to better understand
       | the problem (and related problems) so that you know what to focus
       | on after the Minimum part is over? Are you looking for someone
       | who specifically has this problem to determine if there's any
       | interest in even solving it (and/or to what that person might be
       | willing to spend/do/put up with to have that problem solved)?
       | 
       | These questions usually serve product design and the customers
       | who are willing to take the time to give you these answers are --
       | somewhat -- designing your product with you. If you want
       | _comprehensive feedback_ , you'll need to incentivize[0] it. On
       | the very high-end, there are companies who will put together
       | focus groups for you; but they have to cost a fortune[1].
       | 
       | My approach is to _pick up a phone_ (figuratively). Anything that
       | I 've written with a target of selling, personally, has generally
       | focused on solving a problem for a business that I frequent. I
       | made an observation a while back that my dentist's scheduling and
       | office management system was pretty terrible[2]; this being in
       | the early days of the "maturity of text messaging" and my having
       | built a self-service Kiosk application, I had some ideas and a
       | strong working relationship due to weak enamel and a propensity
       | to consume sugary beverages. I called him up and was surprised at
       | how willing he was to talk my ear off about this problem. It was
       | so encouraging, that I called a six other dental offices, left
       | messages for dentists, and ended up receiving good feedback from
       | about 10 individuals.
       | 
       | I have the original script that I typed up with my list of
       | questions, because I wasn't great "off the cuff" and _really_
       | wanted to avoid sounding like a sales-person or telemarketer.
       | "I'm a software developer in (city). While visiting my dentist, I
       | had some ideas for writing a software application for dental
       | office management. I'm not a dentist, so I'm seeking help from
       | local dentists to understand if there's a way to write something
       | that can reduce the amount of time dentists spend away from
       | patients. If you have a few minutes and can help a guy out, I'd
       | really appreciate it. Thanks!"
       | 
       | I called and left that message with the receptionist being as
       | ridiculously polite as I could; I heard ringing in the
       | background, once, and said "I'm not a patient, so take that one
       | and get back to me when you've had a moment to catch your breath"
       | and sat on hold for 10 minutes... I called back a few days later
       | about an hour before close and discovered (1) small dentists
       | often employ husband/wife/mom/dad as office manager/reception
       | part-time (2) oh...wow, one mom is _really_ helpful and doesn 't
       | get _any_ crap for having a 2.5 hour conversation in the open
       | lobby while processing customer payments, or for interrupting her
       | daughter during a procedure to ask a question (I had no idea she
       | would do this).
       | 
       | For anyone wondering, no, I never wrote it. Shortly after
       | researching, I had a visit to a specialist (sleep, not dental)
       | who had a system in place that basically did everything I was
       | looking to do, which took the wind out of my sails long enough
       | for me to see my own dentist install a fingerprint
       | reader/incredible setup over here shortly after the last failure
       | of the server he had in his office. I was pleased to learn that
       | he picked the setup he did because "it included checkin/checkout
       | via touch screen kiosk" and "had a fingerprint reader"[3] based
       | on the conversation I had with him. And it solved his problems
       | and made the experience for me as his patient, better, as well.
       | After using it, I kind of wish I had written it. :)
       | 
       | [0] You can just outright pay someone, but I'm assuming that's
       | not desired.
       | 
       | [1] And a million who will send spam to you offering you money
       | for your opinion. Anyone with an inbox is familiar with all of
       | the scammy "Get Paid for your Opinion", but there are _real_
       | companies out there -- I 've routinely participated in focus
       | groups with Shiffrin-Hayworth and been paid an average $150/group
       | (catered); their web site, Lord, looks fresh out of 1999, no SSL
       | -- if my Mom hadn't referred me I'd have assumed they were a
       | scam.
       | 
       | [2] Especially when I visited one day while his tech guy was
       | changing tapes in the tape backup due to an over-night server
       | failure.
       | 
       | [3] I mentioned "fingerprint reader" by accident when I talked
       | with him about it early on but even before discussing with him, I
       | had decided against it. I figured there's no way that thing isn't
       | going to be sanitized _endlessly_ by random staff without regard
       | for how the cleaner could affect the reader. I had many-a windex
       | bottles emptied out on my keyboard (thank God for that Northgate
       | Omnikey) from a well meaning mom trying to rub the dirt marks off
       | of the spacebar /enter/arrow keys.
        
       | peterwoerner wrote:
       | I have just started trying to cold email/linked in message people
       | who have the relevant job titles on linked in. I just started
       | yesterday so I can't tell you how its going yet. But I'm looking
       | for people at companies large enough to have people dedicated to
       | a specific subsets of mechanical engineering.
        
       | allochthon wrote:
       | I have the same question as you. Two sources of _potential_
       | feedback I 've found, which are not spammy or unpleasant for
       | people:
       | 
       | - Adding an update to an Indie Hacker product profile with a link
       | to a blog post
       | 
       | - Adding a post to the "Share Your Startup" thread in r/startups,
       | which has been a thread that is started on the first of each
       | month [0]
       | 
       | But, in general, I have the same questions as you, so I don't
       | imagine this will provide more than a small boost in feedback.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/startups/?f=flair_name%3A%22Share%2...
        
         | granshaw wrote:
         | I'm not very experienced as a founder, but I put very low
         | weight in audiences on sites like indie-hackers, r/startups,
         | HN, product-hunt... it's a very specific kind of person who
         | hang out there - mostly just tech and growth folks, and super-
         | gung-ho-early-adopter types, who are a poor substitue for
         | actual long-term customers
         | 
         | I would say FB groups, subreddits, meetups around your
         | potential customers' industry are a much better start.
        
       | chdaniel wrote:
       | A couple of things need to be balanced, I think, as I'm doing
       | just that with PriceUnlock (https://bychgroup.com/price-unlock/)
       | 
       | PriceUnlock will help SaaS owners finds the perfect pricing for
       | their product, with more upside and less downside when trying new
       | prices. Besides, it helps you stop leaving money on the table.
       | 
       | * THE THINGS*
       | 
       | 1. You can "scratch and claw", as Jason Cohen (founder of
       | WPEngine) puts it. He talks more about this in the YT link below
       | and he also puts out this idea of 150 customers, not "1000 true
       | fans". I highly highly recommend watching the video, regardless
       | of going VC/bootstrapped. He also talks about 2 other ways
       | besides scratching and clawing
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/otbnC2zE2rw?t=420
       | 
       | 2. Building in public is an upward trend these days. Basically
       | you share as many milestones/ups/downs about your journey of
       | building it. This can be a trap as well: it only works if your
       | audience is A) interested in you sharing that, B) probably
       | hackers/builders etc.
       | 
       | I asked PG about this and he pretty much summed it up:
       | https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1375038728519974912
       | 
       | 3. As I'm building PriceUnlock, you'll also notice that I'm
       | collecting emails (the ol' way) to get people's interest. I don't
       | want to make a mailing list, I want to build my product, so I'll
       | aim to be better doing the second rather than the first. But it
       | doesn't hurt to, as Rob Walling did with Drip, launch with some
       | MRR hopefully... or at least with some interest.
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLay7kksLtc
       | 
       | 4. The usual set of things hackers do when they launch their
       | thing: ProductHunt, Betalist, etc. Don't forget to join my
       | subreddit on https://www.reddit.com/r/saas if that's what you're
       | building (SaaS is v popular these days, so anyone reading this is
       | invited!)
       | 
       | 5. This pretty much ties to point 1, but the scratching and
       | clawing is just another way to put the age-old adage: help (the
       | relevant set of) people so you get their attention, use that
       | attention as 'free advertising' for your product. It doesn't get
       | any better than this as it's not intrusive and at least it's a
       | win-zero-sum-game, at best a win-win. That's how I built my main
       | company into 5M+ users and that's what I can preach
       | 
       | that said....
       | 
       | 6. Deep down inside I thought what Jason Fried of Basecamp put
       | best here. I'll let him say it:
       | https://world.hey.com/jason/validation-is-a-mirage-273c0969
        
         | Frodo478 wrote:
         | Thanks! Checked every single link. And let me say that I was
         | thinking using something like price-unlock in the future. I
         | hope to see some updates on the project
        
       | danenania wrote:
       | Betalist is good for this: https://betalist.com/
       | 
       | I'd also recommend spending the next 30 minutes putting together
       | a very rough description and a mailing list sign up form, and
       | then posting a comment in this thread with a link. Being on the
       | front page of HN will get you hundreds to thousands of visitors,
       | and it isn't easy, so don't miss the opportunity!
        
         | riku_iki wrote:
         | Such posts very rarely appear on front page, maybe 0.1% of
         | them.
        
       | adav wrote:
       | Check out The Mom Test and find an audience to talk to first.
       | Validate any idea long before you build an MVP. In my opinion
       | it's two separate steps.
       | 
       | I must admit I've also fallen in your trap many times myself.
       | It's too fun to just go ahead and build something sometimes
       | without considering the best way to find those early users first.
        
         | suyash wrote:
         | sounds like a cool mom, gonna check it out.
        
         | vincentmarle wrote:
         | I wish this book wasn't called the Mom Test, people I've
         | recommended it to didn't take it seriously because of that. But
         | it's definitely one of the best books ever written on problem
         | validation.
        
           | adav wrote:
           | I had also previously dismissed it because of the stupid name
           | (...and it should be Mum Test if anything...) but luckily my
           | friend insisted that I read it.
           | 
           | I often skim the crib sheet on the last few pages to remind
           | myself of the goodness within.
        
         | bbulkow wrote:
         | i once had a vc, during a pitch, who asked if i could sell to
         | her mom. As it was database infrastructure, it seemed kinda
         | wrong, but it turns out her mom owned a small business and was
         | the primary tech buyer, and the mom was in the lobby because
         | they were supposed to go to lunch. I didn't get interest from
         | the firm but it was a heck of an experience.
        
         | senko wrote:
         | Seconding The Mom Test recommendations. Terrible name,
         | incredible book - full of down to earth, actionable advice.
         | 
         | That said, the first step is finding your customers. If you
         | can't find them to talk with them, how will you find them to
         | sell to them?
        
       | harrisreynolds wrote:
       | Following. This is something I've been thinking a lot about with
       | WeBase (see https://www.webase.com)
        
         | apples_oranges wrote:
         | Can I give you some feedback? I just watched the animation
         | under "A database for anyone" and it irritates me that the
         | mouse pointer is moving all over before clicking the right
         | thing.
        
       | f6v wrote:
       | > without spamming HN or reddit
       | 
       | Do you customers spend time there? Then go ahead and ask for
       | feedback.
       | 
       | > P.S. A fiverr clone for product owners or analysts might be
       | what I'm looking for here.
       | 
       | Cold emails through LinkedIn? Or product owners and analysts your
       | friend/former colleagues can introduce you to? Product meet-ups
       | are a thing as well (most likely online). You might try talking
       | to people and asking for feedback there.
       | https://www.meetup.com/topics/product-owners/
       | 
       | > I'm getting ready to use it myself
       | 
       | If that's a fiverr clone, is it sort of marketplace?
        
       | Elof wrote:
       | I've had some luck posting on https://www.producthunt.com/ in the
       | past
        
       | johnli wrote:
       | Shameless plug for the service we built to solve this for
       | ourselves - https://www.pickfu.com
       | 
       | The MVP was to meant to replace asking randos at a coffee shop
       | about your idea/design/etc. Over time we've added demographic
       | targeting, follow-up questions, and other requested features.
       | Nowadays online sellers and other creators use it like an online
       | focus group to validate ideas and products.
       | 
       | Some other ideas for finding an audience for your MVP:
       | - google the exact problem you're trying to solve, reach out to
       | authors/bloggers who've written about it       - online ads to
       | your target demographic        - LinkedIn prospecting (if you
       | have a target customer profile)       - Subreddits of your target
       | problem area       - Start writing/tweeting about the problem
       | space and engage the audience that follows       - comments
       | section of relevant YouTube videos
        
       | mehphp wrote:
       | In general, don't you want to have a potential customer with a
       | problem first?
       | 
       | It seems like building a product and then trying to find people
       | to validate it is backwards.
        
       | DoreenMichele wrote:
       | I run two reddits where self promotion is okay, assuming it's
       | relevant to the problem space and not excessively often.
       | 
       | One is r/ClothingStartups. You don't have to be selling clothing
       | for it to be okay to pop in and ask for feedback on your product.
       | You do need to be able to make a reasonable assertion that you
       | think it could be pertinent to early stage, small clothing
       | businesses.
       | 
       | The other is r/GigWorks. If you are working on a gig platform of
       | some sort, you are welcome to pop in there and talk to folks.
       | 
       | R/ClothingStartups has a few thousand members and regular
       | traffic. People actually get feedback there sometimes on the
       | stuff they are trying to do (mostly clothing businesses). It's
       | growing at around 40 to 60 members per week with little to no
       | promotion.
        
       | shiado wrote:
       | Discord is actually great for having people test things. Search
       | for a server related to what your idea focuses on and get random
       | people to test and provide instant feedback.
        
         | arunsivadasan wrote:
         | +1 Discord community is quite under utilized. I recently posted
         | on a Discord forum where my potential users hang out and it was
         | a great experience.
        
       | Abishek_Muthian wrote:
       | I faced the same issue and in the end I had to create my own
       | problem validation platform - needgap[1].
       | 
       | Problem, not startup idea because; IMO problems are tangible,
       | it's something people have right now unlike a startup idea which
       | materializes only when it solves the said problem and when enough
       | people need it.
       | 
       | So, I created a platform which treats problems as first class
       | citizen and new posts are strictly for problem statement. Startup
       | ideas to solve those problems can be discussed in the comments
       | along with existing solutions for the problem.
       | 
       | Potential customers search with their problem terms on search
       | engines and so there's good chance they'll visit a needgap thread
       | than a startup idea validation 'landing' page. I've been running
       | needgap for nearly 2 years now and several projects have been
       | created to solve the problems posted there.
       | 
       | I'm personally starting to get better understanding of the
       | grammar of problems and startup ideas with needgap and hope to
       | make it a even better validation platform with the help of the
       | community.
       | 
       | [1] https://needgap.com
        
       | vuciv1 wrote:
       | Maybe this answer isn't scalable, but I personally find that as
       | long as _I_ want to use it, I can find other people who want to
       | use it.
       | 
       | Typically, posting to reddit and sharing with my friends has been
       | helpful.
       | 
       | Also, I recently started a Twitter to try and meet other
       | builders, it has been invaluable in terms of support and
       | feedback.
        
       | nocommandline wrote:
       | I faced/am facing the same 2 issues with
       | https://nocommandline.com which is a GUI for Google App Engine
       | 
       | 1) How to find people to validate your idea: I've used Show HN,
       | Stackoverflow (I respond to questions about Google App Engine and
       | a few other areas), Google Groups forum for GAE. I'm also trying
       | Twitter by responding to comments that I feel are related to GAE,
       | Cloud hosting, etc - basically any thing that I feel is related
       | to the App or just general knowledge that I have that is helpful
       | to someone
       | 
       | 2) How to get feedback from users: This is the part that I'm
       | struggling with. I have a link on the website for submitting
       | bugs, providing feedback, etc. I haven't gotten much feedback
       | from it. The windows version of the App had some bugs at the time
       | of my ShowHN (I mistakenly exposed the download link for the
       | Windows version) and I could see multiple people downloaded it
       | but I didn't receive word from anybody saying it wasn't working
       | or complaints about it. I have since fixed the bug.
        
       | xsmasher wrote:
       | There was a trick in "Four hour work week" - I'm going from
       | memory, might not be accurate - where Ferriss would place eBay
       | listings for nonexistent products and then cancel the auction
       | before it completed; any bidding would indicate real customer
       | interest.
       | 
       | You could do something similar with facebook ads. Make ads for
       | the finished product, if people click take them to a "Register
       | for more info" page. Now you have some email addresses of
       | interested people.
       | 
       | This only measures superficial interest in a concept of course;
       | it doesn't give feedback on your actual product.
        
         | bellttyler wrote:
         | The 4 hour work week is such an awesome book.
        
       | blacktriangle wrote:
       | For us, it was trade shows. We did the math: what would we pay
       | per person to have them take a look at our software, and how many
       | people did we think we'd get to come by our booth at a show? I
       | realize this can vary by industry though, in ours a standard
       | booth is roughly $1000 which is far more affordable than most. We
       | learned a ton and made contact with our first customers who ended
       | up being vital in helping us refine our functionality.
        
       | zJayv wrote:
       | Rob Fitzpatrick, The Mom Test https://www.amazon.com/Mom-Test-
       | customers-business-everyone/...
        
       | bbulkow wrote:
       | I have a system for this.
       | 
       | You have two problems, not one. You need to get useful feedback
       | out of 100pct of people, and you might need more people.
       | 
       | To get useful feedback, distill your potential value proposition
       | to one sentence. If you have multiple ways of saying it, make a
       | couple. But one sentence only and write it down.
       | 
       | When you have someone from the correct category (target market)
       | on the phone, yes, you need a phone or video call, emit the
       | potential value proposition sentence exactly as you have written
       | it, not a word different.
       | 
       | Do not do any extra run up other than hi, how much time do you
       | have, pleased to meet you...
       | 
       | Then, shut up. This is called 'the golden silence' in sales. and
       | write down exactly the first thing they say.
       | 
       | The first thing they say is the truth, and you need to listen to
       | it.
       | 
       | after that, you can try to dive in, and they might say they
       | didn't understand at first, but the reality is people like to
       | please people, and all that subsequent talk is secondary. The
       | first reaction is what you bank on.
       | 
       | When you are going to market, you will put ad money, web site
       | visits, whatever, into a single sentence, and it must resonate.
       | Period. And it must resonate with your target market - you did
       | remember to define your target market and potentially do a value
       | proposition for each. There are a lot of target markets who don't
       | buy the product (investors, influencers), but usually you do that
       | only after you believe you have a thesis and resonating message.
        
         | fny wrote:
         | > people like to please people
         | 
         | Related, if you can distance yourself from the product. Don't
         | be the founder, owner, creator. Act like some other third party
         | who is getting feedback.
         | 
         | People often mask criticism, and rarely do people tell someone
         | that their baby is ugly. ;)
        
           | arnonejoe wrote:
           | The book 'The Mom Test' is all about this.
        
       | jppope wrote:
       | - Go through your linkedin/twitter/instagram account. Find people
       | who would be interested. Send them an email/message.        -
       | Search online for thought leaders, industry people that work in
       | that specific field. Could be as easy as a twitter search, it
       | could be more complex like going through white papers and
       | emailing researchers.        - There are websites where you can
       | request all sorts of feed back including MVP feedback. Fiver has
       | a section (https://www.fiverr.com/categories/programming-
       | tech/user-testing-services), and there are niche sites
       | https://www.usertesting.com/       - Hacker News?       - Reddit
       | has subs dedicated to that sort of thing:
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/websitefeedback/       - Meetups. 2
       | different versions. 1) Prepare your elevator pitch and bring your
       | phone 2) Message meetup founders and ask them where they would go
       | for feedback, since they are thought leaders of sorts.       -
       | Dischord (mentioned elsewhere)        - Just start trying to sell
       | it the way that you planned on marketing it (hopefully you've
       | thought about your marketing plan)
        
       | staunch wrote:
       | How do you "talk to your users"?
       | 
       | 1. By getting "distribution", which means people buying, or
       | considering buying, your product or service by visiting your web
       | site, taking sales calls, etc.
       | 
       | 2. Then you talk to these people who bought (or didn't buy) your
       | product or service about why or why not. This can be via email,
       | chat, phone, survey, etc.
       | 
       | How do you get "distribution"?
       | 
       | 1. You buy it with money (ads, etc) if you have the money to do
       | so (it's not cheap).
       | 
       | 2. Or you farm for it on someone else's platform (SEO, media
       | stories, etc) if you have more time than money.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | IgorPartola wrote:
       | For your project it might be useful to examine where you first
       | looked for solutions before deciding to create your own. You want
       | to find customers, not just people to give you feedback.
       | 
       | I have also learned the hard way that it's better to start with
       | customers and then find the idea to implement that you can sell
       | to them than the other way around. I have built way too many
       | things that scratched my own itch but nobody else seemed to need
       | all that badly.
        
       | everlost wrote:
       | Highly recommend Brian's Tacklebox program. It helped me create a
       | framework for validating my product idea, while gaining the
       | skills (and confidence) for running customer interviews, landing
       | page tests, mapping markets, etc.
       | 
       | Obviously, you still need to put in the work to reach out to
       | potential users. But the program helps you approach it in a
       | structured format.
       | 
       | https://gettacklebox.com/
        
       | btzo wrote:
       | It depends a lot on the target audience, but some subreddits also
       | have a Slack/Discord channel where you can be more open about
       | your intentions and get immediate feedback.
       | 
       | What I like about this model is that if any customer is really
       | interested in your product, you can start a video call and
       | discuss about it. Also, you can put these people on an email list
       | of interested people (with their permission), which can be your
       | first cohort.
        
         | ttul wrote:
         | Events are another excellent place to find targets to
         | interview. For example, if you work in security, go to RSA and
         | just bug people in booths or wherever.
        
       | tootie wrote:
       | https://first1000.substack.com/
        
       | richardg wrote:
       | Very helpful.. I'm trying to get traction for my site too.
       | https://nftpedia.co - NFT search and general info
        
       | zhte415 wrote:
       | I tend to listen to pain points of friends or even random
       | internet comments and seek to fix that, then have an incentive to
       | get others.
       | 
       | Nothing huge but provides a living and backup over 9/5 job.
       | 
       | Main problem of asking friends is feedback in the form of "this
       | is super" but often not super constructive.
       | 
       | But if it solves two people's problem, then it likely solves more
       | than two. And iterate on that. Which can go from payment to
       | organisational stubbornness to recognise their pain.
        
       | binarysolo wrote:
       | Disclaimer: Non-dev small business owner here; I only MVPed
       | offerings that solve a big-enough existing problem of contacts I
       | know -- so for me the logical customers to validate are the ones
       | with the pain points that I can comfortably access.
       | 
       | For people who are comfortable enough to give you a signup
       | already I'd just reach out to them first via a cold+mass email
       | and get conversion through numbers.
       | 
       | Once you get that personal connection you just wanna make sure it
       | solves their use case; do remember how you solve it for them is
       | often times as important as solving it itself.
        
       | 1_over_n wrote:
       | I would say ideally wherever they hangout. Figuring that out is a
       | big part of the job, next is to find out how to engage with them.
       | Going through that process will lead to a lot of learning.
       | Figuring out a distribution channel for whatever you are doing is
       | essential for getting to market and finding early users will
       | inform that process. Read the mom test if you haven't already so
       | you have a framework for how to speak to potential users.
        
         | suyash wrote:
         | this! if you are not the customer, it's going to be hard to
         | build for them. You need to live, breathe like customer
         | everyday. Hangout where they are.
        
       | takinola wrote:
       | This is actually a very insightful question. You get them the
       | same way you plan to get customers after you have built the
       | product. If you do not have a way to get customers to test the
       | idea, then you do not have a way to get customers after you build
       | the product. The process of building an MVP includes the process
       | of figuring out distribution.
       | 
       | That said, it depends a lot on what type of product you are
       | building. If you are building a consumer product, then throw some
       | money at digital ads and drive some traffic towards your idea. If
       | people are signing up but not using it, that's feedback right
       | there. They are intrigued enough to sign up but find it lacking
       | in some way to stick around. Fix one thing and see if that
       | changes anything. If it does, great. If not, fix something else.
       | Hint on what to fix, think about user engagement in steps. Always
       | fix the first possible step that you know is not working. When
       | users start crossing that step then go to the next one. Repeat
       | until IPO.
        
         | lovedswain wrote:
         | > The process of building an MVP includes the process of
         | figuring out distribution.
         | 
         | As blindingly obvious as this is, I've never seen it put quite
         | so concisely. Fantastic. I could've cut short so many bullshit
         | discussions this way
        
           | jasondigitized wrote:
           | Never heard it put it that way either but it is so true. I am
           | going to add key qualifier for any idea I have: "How
           | difficult is it to talk to someone about it?"
        
           | nocommandline wrote:
           | >> The process of building an MVP includes the process of
           | figuring out distribution. <<
           | 
           | Maybe I'm being picky here but I disagree a little bit with
           | this. At the start, your MVP might just have been for you
           | i.e. to scratch an itch you have and it is only later that
           | you think about getting other people to use/pay for it. So
           | maybe your above statement will (should??) apply if your MVP
           | was targeted for the public
        
             | hnarn wrote:
             | Isn't an MVP, by definition, not just for you?
        
               | nocommandline wrote:
               | hmm, good point. I didn't look at it from that POV.
               | 
               | When I'm trying to scratch an itch, I try to get
               | something 'rough' and then try to add the bells and
               | whistles later on. Mentally, I always think of that
               | 'rough' bit as 'my own MVP' i.e. what are the minimum
               | features I need to build for this tool to solve my
               | problem.
               | 
               | For example I needed a self hosted solution to convert
               | svg images to png. I need a way to specify the image to
               | be converted, code to convert it, and a place to store
               | the output. My first build had a text field where I
               | manually enter the path to the svg file I need to
               | convert, and I hardcoded the output folder. I thought of
               | that as my MVP. When I was sure the code was working and
               | much later on when I had the time, I added a file picker
               | to allow me pick the input file and another file picker
               | for me to specify the output location.
        
               | hnarn wrote:
               | The "product" part of MVP refers to something you sell
               | (rather, offer) in a market, and the "minimum viable"
               | part refers to it being barebones but functional enough
               | to be "sellable" and provide value, ie someone that isn't
               | you is willing to go through the stated process to
               | install and use it. So writing a tool that you use
               | yourself without "customers" (used loosely) isn't in my
               | mind an MVP, and neither is a product with no thought
               | given to distribution.
        
           | bob33212 wrote:
           | For anyone reading the above comment and thinking "Well maybe
           | for your product, but my product is so great once people see
           | it they will buy it"
           | 
           | You are setting yourself up for a hell of a sales problem.
        
         | harrisreynolds wrote:
         | I really like the insight about the feedback you are getting
         | from crickets (no feedback) and the engagement progression.
         | 
         | Just fix the next step and start with the first step.
         | 
         | Repeat until IPO (Ha!!)
         | 
         | Great comment.
        
         | dahart wrote:
         | Very well said.
         | 
         | Will add that from experience, the suggestion of knocking down
         | technical issues is so important it's mandatory, and it does
         | not stop once you get users, it will be required forever with a
         | successful product. BUT! ... IMO it's a very slow way to
         | acquire users, and the engagement improvements are incremental
         | at best, unless you are making sweeping changes or hit
         | something viral (unlikely!!) or were missing something truly
         | glaring.
         | 
         | I did a lot of testing between adding features, addressing bug
         | fixes, and then random attention-getting marketing like blog
         | posts that happen to mention cats or money or other things
         | people care more about than software. There was no comparison
         | to the amount of attention they got, the tangential posts got
         | many, many more people in the door than the technical posts.
         | The steady feature improvements are what will keep people
         | there, while fluffy emotional blog posts are what will attract
         | a lot of window shoppers. It's better if the blog posts are
         | relevant to your app and feature announcements, of course, but
         | I'm saying you can get users faster without writing software.
         | It's just a hard problem and a delicate balance, and don't get
         | stuck thinking "if I build it they will come." Some amount of
         | marketing is needed. And don't get stuck writing ads or blog
         | posts either. Some amount of attention to the software is
         | needed. Do as much of both as you can.
         | 
         | It's _very_ difficult to get users to talk, whether they like
         | your app or not. Most of the time they don't know enough to be
         | able to articulate what they want or need, even though they can
         | sense it. And the people that talk loudest aren't often the
         | most important to listen to, especially if they're not paying
         | for anything.
         | 
         | Good Luck!
        
       | artembugara wrote:
       | You should search for potential customers/clients where they
       | usually are.
       | 
       | I see many people advise Discord, LinkedIn, YouTube, etc. They're
       | all right! But it works for them.
       | 
       | If your potential customers are devs, use Hacker News. However,
       | HN won't work if your potential clients are non-devs.
       | 
       | The only right answer (in my opinion) is: "it depends"
        
       | AznHisoka wrote:
       | Twitter DMs are such a great resource. Go sign up for a tool like
       | BuzzSumo (they got a free trial) and use their Twitter
       | influencers search feature to find users that have a specific
       | keyword in their bio. Then DM the ones that have DM public, and
       | ask for their opinion. Or alternatively, just send them a regular
       | message, without trying to spam.
        
       | jordank wrote:
       | I routinely recruit highly targeted people for 1-on-1 interviews
       | via services like userinterviews.com to help validate concepts.
       | These services take care of incentives and scheduling, making
       | this process fairly painless.
        
         | montroser wrote:
         | We've found userinterviews.com to be fantastic for testing
         | usability, and decent for product feedback. You can target
         | people by experience and industry, and they are most often
         | intelligent humans.
        
       | IvanK_net wrote:
       | I think the importance of users feedback and validation is often
       | overrated.
       | 
       | If Steve Jobs asked people, if they want a phone with no keyboard
       | and just a touchscreen, most of them would say no back then.
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | When I was working for Motorola in 1997, I came up with an idea
         | for something very much like the iPhone (although not as good
         | and it required a stylus as I was thinking in terms of the
         | functionality of the Palm Pilot). But the execution of the
         | iPhone was light years ahead of what I dreamt up while working
         | at Motorola (and since I was a contractor there, I never shared
         | my brilliant idea with anyone who could have put it into
         | development anyway). A phone with no keyboard and just a
         | touchscreen could have been easily sold before the original
         | demo. the difference is that what Apple came up with was far
         | beyond what anyone had imagined.
        
       | PostThisTooFast wrote:
       | The pub.
        
       | mmukhin wrote:
       | Send 200-500 personal cold emails to the person who is the buyer
       | of the product.. over the course of 1-2 months. Dont bulk send, 5
       | emails take me 30min.
       | 
       | To get emails, ideally find a directory of companies you want to
       | solve the problem for, then u can get a trustworthy person on
       | Fiverr make u a list of names/companies/emails. I do it 50 at a
       | time.
        
       | rawtxapp wrote:
       | I think reddit ads are pretty underrated, they are fairly cheap,
       | you can target specific subreddits and people in those subreddits
       | tend to be passionate about the topic.
       | 
       | If you allow them to comment on the ad itself, you might even get
       | more useful feedback in addition to getting users on your mvp
       | (there will also be lots of copy-pasta, but it's not too bad).
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | Ooh, I was considering some ad buys to promote the kickstarter
         | for the LaTeX book I'm writing. I'd considered advertising on
         | tex.stackexchange.com but found that the pricing is closely
         | held and apparently in the "if you have to ask, you can't
         | afford it" range. Reddit, on the other hand, will let me buy an
         | ad starting at $5 and the site I read talked about the $.75/CPM
         | and said that the biggest challenge is that for niche products,
         | it can be hard to actually get $5 worth of CPM in the time
         | frame of the ad since the $5 is per sub-reddit, but this looks
         | to be _exactly_ what I want right now.
        
       | tjpnz wrote:
       | I'm in a similar boat with the added difficulty of living in
       | Japan and having a limited command of Japanese. My intended user
       | base would be housewives.
       | 
       | I've got a few bilingual acquaintances I could demo the app to
       | but don't want to risk not getting honest feedback. Does anyone
       | have any additional points which might help?
        
         | arisAlexis wrote:
         | We are building a service where you can get design reviews
         | especially for cross cultural situations like this. If you
         | don't speak the language I doubt you would nail a design that
         | Japanese housewives would relate to. Check it out if you want
         | at https://borrowmind.io
        
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