[HN Gopher] The final official release of Classilla
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       The final official release of Classilla
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 34 points
       Date   : 2021-03-29 17:07 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (oldvcr.blogspot.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (oldvcr.blogspot.com)
        
       | abrowne wrote:
       | And the end of TenFourFox!
       | http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-end-of-tenfourfox...
        
       | EamonnMR wrote:
       | This is sad to see. I wonder if there are smaller browser
       | codebases out there that might be possible to port.
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | Might be interesting to have a way to seamlessly have the
         | browser "run" on something modern, while displaying locally,
         | and intercepting things like downloads to be on a local
         | filesystem. I know most of this exists, but it's typically
         | complex to set up.
        
         | techmememe wrote:
         | Might be possible to slap these patches on top UXP and get it
         | building. http://thereisonlyxul.org
        
           | classichasclass wrote:
           | Author here. Sadly, not without a current toolchain, plus all
           | the custom changes for Mac OS 9 on top of NSPR and other
           | pieces. CodeWarrior is a solid compiler but the classic Mac
           | OS versions definitely show their age compared to modern gcc
           | and clang.
        
             | duskwuff wrote:
             | I wonder how much work would be needed to generate PEF from
             | a modern PowerPC toolchain...
        
               | classichasclass wrote:
               | There's Retro68. It might be able to pull this off. You'd
               | still need all the other pieces, of course.
        
               | stratosmacker wrote:
               | Regardless, thank you for all of your work and
               | contributions. Keeping those old PPC devices alive did
               | more for the environment than I think you'll ever be able
               | to quantify. Not to mention, I had a lot of fun with old
               | PowerBooks and iMacs surfing the web.
        
         | classichasclass wrote:
         | Author here. I looked at some of those (and I did recently dust
         | off the classic Mac port of Lynx:
         | https://oldvcr.blogspot.com/2021/02/maclynx-beta-3-really.ht...
         | ) but they suffer some similar problems in that they are
         | generally "toys" and won't view sites most people today would
         | require as essential. The biggest bugaboo is JavaScript.
         | Classilla's JavaScript is far more advanced than WaMCoM and
         | Mozilla 1.3's, but it is still based on Firefox 3.0, which by
         | modern standards is ancient. And that doesn't include what's
         | missing from the DOM, either.
        
       | phendrenad2 wrote:
       | It's sad that the internet has become primarily a tool for
       | commerce. High security comes at a price (barrier to entry, pay-
       | to-play, and lack of options). I wish for an alternative protocol
       | for document discovery and retrieval, like the old internet.
       | Gopher, maybe?
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | > High security comes at a price (barrier to entry, pay-to-
         | play, and lack of options).
         | 
         | What are you talking about?
         | 
         | Implementing secure online applications is easier today than
         | it's ever been before. Free signed certificates are readily
         | available to hobbyists through Let's Encrypt and other
         | projects, and there are a number of lightweight TLS libraries
         | available if you don't want to use OpenSSL, such as mbedTLS and
         | wolfSSL.
        
           | tyingq wrote:
           | I suspect they mean the level of effort to get a working web
           | browser, on an older OS, that supports current websites. Of
           | course, it's not just security (TLS, etc) that makes it hard.
           | Browsers are very complicated these days.
        
             | PeterisP wrote:
             | Well, that's the choice of these current websites, which
             | wouldn't also want to support an alternative protocol if
             | one (like the parent post suggests) would get made.
             | 
             | If you need a protocol for document discovery and retrieval
             | like the old internet and have the cooperation of the
             | sites, then you can simply use basic https without
             | javascript, all the things that Lynx browser can support,
             | all the infrastructure is still there. But you can't force
             | the websites to support that if their operators don't share
             | these goals and values.
        
               | tyingq wrote:
               | _" Well, that's the choice of these current websites"_
               | 
               | Sometimes. For example, there was a pretty organized
               | effort to make plain http websites seem insecure, even if
               | they were just informational sites.
        
           | thesuitonym wrote:
           | Perhaps they're talking about how you can't just grab any old
           | computer and expect it to (at least partially) function?
        
         | timw4mail wrote:
         | Http still works
        
           | tyingq wrote:
           | Perhaps a reference to Chrome defaulting to https in the
           | address bar soon. And whatever other future things put http
           | further in the back row.
        
         | zdw wrote:
         | You're probably looking for Gemini
        
           | blacktriangle wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_space#Gemini_resources
           | for those who are curious.
           | 
           | I ran into Gemini last week looking into lightweight markup
           | languages and Gemtext seems like an interesting one.
           | 
           | Gemini really does seem like a heavy handed approach (in a
           | good way) to creating a pure hypermedia system and avoiding
           | the road HTML went down. No Code-on-demand constraint, no
           | concept of styling at all leaving display totally up to the
           | client removes a ton of the complexity. I saw Gemini defined
           | as "a better gopher" and think that's fairly accurate.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-29 23:02 UTC)