[HN Gopher] The forgotten medieval fruit with a vulgar name
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The forgotten medieval fruit with a vulgar name
Author : ranit
Score : 131 points
Date : 2021-03-28 16:02 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
| abarachant wrote:
| Growing up in south of france, we had a few of theses tree
| ("Neflier") scattered around the village. I really loved the
| fruits as a kid, it was a true delicacy. We had to wait until the
| first freeze in december, and pick them off the ground after
| bletting. they are really sweet, with a touch of alcool, and one
| of the few fruit you can find in the wild during the winter.
|
| Now the title is a little bit misleading, they fell out of favor,
| and not widely available commercially, but definetly not
| forgotten.
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| I live in the South-east, and Nefles/Medlars start appearing
| now actually, tend to be ready in May, when they start turning
| from yellow to orange. In the summer they're all gone, maybe
| we're speaking about different species, I think here those
| Nefliers are 'Japan Medlars', so are not in the same cycle
|
| Persimmons are ready between October and December. Agrums (like
| mandarines, clementines) from January to March.Figs in summer
|
| Basically you can have something to pick all year long, if
| people can stop replacing trees by concrete
|
| Edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26612839 said it
| all, what I'm talking about are loquats, not medlars, we still
| call them "nefliers" though
| samatman wrote:
| When I was still living in the East Bay, loquats were a
| favourite of mine!
|
| They're planted all over the place, but it doesn't seem that
| people eat the fruit anymore. Easy to pick your fill when
| they're ripe. They aren't the best eating, but not half bad.
| Aloha wrote:
| I grew up in Southern California, I remember eating them
| lots as a kid.
| puzzlingcaptcha wrote:
| Do the fruits taste similar?
| nkurz wrote:
| Not really. At least, if you hadn't been told in advance
| that the loquat was also called the "Japanese medlar", you
| probably wouldn't think they had anything more in common
| than a pear and a plum, or an apple and an apricot.
|
| Loquats have a mild citrus-apricot flavor and a texture
| close to a somewhat meaty plum or cherry. When immature,
| they are very tart; when overripe, they are insipid; when
| just right, they can be great.
|
| Medlar are only eaten when "bletted", which means that
| they've become browned and spoonably soft. They taste of
| overripe spiced stewed apple/pear/quince, although no spice
| has been added. When just right, they are "interesting".
| kergonath wrote:
| Yeah, the angle is strange. AFAIK people never stopped using
| medlar, at least in France. I remember my grandmother making
| pies, cakes, and jam with it when I was a kid. It might not be
| a very popular fruit (it's difficult to sell it when it's
| edible, and you'd have to convince people to eat what the'
| drake for rotten fruit), but "forgotten" is a bit much.
| raarts wrote:
| In Dutch there's an expression 'zo rot als een mispel' (as rotten
| as a medlar). These days this means 'rotten to the core', so I
| was surprised to learn it originated from a fruit that supposedly
| tastes wonderful in this state. Although from the Dutch Wikipedia
| I gather it's more fermenting than rotting that's involved.
| PuddleOfSausage wrote:
| > one 18th Century doctor and botanist said that they cause
| diarrhoea
|
| I thought this would have been a prime contributor to its vulgar
| name!
| PLenz wrote:
| The equivlent in North America (in terms of being a once popular,
| now nearly forgotten fruit) is the Pawpaw:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimina_triloba
| crazygringo wrote:
| To avoid confusion, the word "pawpaw" means very different
| things in different parts of the English-speaking world.
|
| Outside of North America, "pawpaw" usually means what Americans
| call papaya -- and in some countries (like New Zealand) both
| "papaya" and "pawpaw" are used to refer to different
| _varieties_ of what Americans call papayas.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paw_Paw
| barathr wrote:
| One issue with Pawpaw is that some varieties have high levels
| of acetogenins:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annonacin
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetogenin
|
| There are some low annonacin varieties: Sunflower, Wabash,
| Potomac, Zimmerman, and Wells.
| fennecfoxen wrote:
| Hmm. Some of us have heard of it via the original Disney
| animated _Jungle Book_ , where it cameos in the song "Bear
| Necessities" (or is that "Bare Necessities?" Dual meaning and
| all that, forget which one is the canonical title.) Anyway,
| Phil Harris sings:
|
| "Now when you pick a pawpaw / or a prickly pear / and if you
| prick a raw paw / well then next time, beware! Don't pick a
| prickly pear by the paw / when you pick a pear, try to use the
| claw. But you don't need to use the paw / when you pick a pear
| from a big pawpaw. Have I given you a clue?"
|
| This may have placed me under the erroneous impression it was a
| tropical fruit.
| atdrummond wrote:
| There are (at least) three fruit known as the pawpaw:
|
| 1. Asimina (North American pawpaw)
|
| 2. Vasconcellea pubescens (Mountain pawpaw, South America)
|
| 3. Carica papaya (Papaya, Africa and Asia)
| goodcanadian wrote:
| Indeed. When I see "paw-paw," the first thing I think of is
| papaya which is indeed a tropical fruit.
| londons_explore wrote:
| Pears are similar.
|
| Straight off the tree they are hard and barely edible.
|
| Pick them from the tree and wait a week and they become soft and
| juicy.
| Agentlien wrote:
| My wife grew up in Belgium and has often mentioned medlar as a
| wonderful and absurd delicacy. I never had it and she seemed to
| find it strange that I didn't know of it. A few days ago she
| excitedly sent me this article. Yesterday we found out her
| parents have just planted medlar in their garden.
| gumby wrote:
| Medlar are also gown in the US; I have a friend growing it in
| Vermont, for instance. It's OK.
| bitdizzy wrote:
| I got a batch of medlars from a farm this last winter! We ate the
| first few too soon but the rest were amazing, and very late into
| the winter when we dont really have fruit besides apples. I'd
| love for these to become mainstream again.
| mano78 wrote:
| These are... nespole. I have a tree in my garden and we, in
| Italy, commonly eat them. A bit disappointed after the intriguing
| opening of the article.
|
| https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mespilus_germanica
| saberdancer wrote:
| Yeah, I've eaten these. Never knew they were "rare".
| ithkuil wrote:
| I also have a "nespolo" tree. But honestly I don't know if it's
| a european or a japonica variant
| marton78 wrote:
| Oval, orange, edible in summer? Japonica. Round, brown,
| requires frost - European.
| greenyoda wrote:
| English version:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mespilus_germanica
| sdoering wrote:
| I also have one in my garden. In German it is called "Mispel".
| I wouldn't call it forgotten although I have to attest that
| probably only history or plant nerds know of it.
|
| As we grow a lot of historic varieties of vegetables a "Mispel"
| was not so unusual for us.
| usrusr wrote:
| And living in a region where traditionally all hard liquor is
| from trees, the Mispel one happens to be my unquestioned
| favorite, after a good meal at the pub. I'd describe the tiny
| fruit aroma hint that is usual with fruit liquor as a touch
| of marzipan that works much better than I'd expect upon
| hearing this description (I'd definitely _not_ be eager to
| try something advertised as marzipan liquor).
|
| Perhaps it's no coincidence that the article doesn't mention
| Germany at all, it might ruin the "forgotten" hook. (no you
| can't walk into a German supermarket and walk out with a bag
| full of Mispels, it's not that un-forgotten)
| nkurz wrote:
| I think you are confusing the "loquat" with the "medlar". The
| loquat is still relatively common, doesn't have a gaping open
| end, is yellow to orange, and can be eaten out of hand. The
| medlar is darker in color, has a very open calyx, and is
| practically inedible direct from the tree. The names are
| sometimes confused, with the loquat sometimes called a
| "Japanese medlar". Anyway, did yours possibly match this one
| instead: http://italywithgusto.com/praise-to-the-italian-
| loquat-fruit...?
| mano78 wrote:
| I don't think so: it's open ended indeed, and the wikipedia
| article I linked matches the latin name
| nkurz wrote:
| You are right that depending on where you are, it could be
| either. The English language Wikipedia article for
| 'loquat'[1] suggests that Southern Italy uses 'nespolo' for
| 'loquat', while Northern uses it for 'medlar'. But if it's
| tasty and light orange colored when you eat it ripe
| directly from the tree, it's definitely a loquat. While if
| it's at all appealing after it's been stored for a few
| months and turned brown and mushy, it's a medlar.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loquat
| rwmj wrote:
| They're not particularly rare in England (although rarely
| eaten). You see them a lot in stately homes. And although I
| don't live in one of those, I have one in my back garden.
| rbirkby wrote:
| I had a large tree in the garden of my previous house. I used
| to make significant quantities of medlar jelly every year and
| give the jars away to family and friends. The house was 400
| years old, but the tree was significantly younger.
| Schnouki wrote:
| Pretty common in France too: the tree is neflier, the fruit is
| nefle. Disappointed too as I could find this with a simple
| Wikipedia search...
| marton78 wrote:
| Yeah. Naspolya. We have them in Hungary, too, although they
| have become less and less common over the years.
| darkhorn wrote:
| I know them as musmula. I didn't know that they were forgotten.
| I'm sad that they are not being sold in cities.
| Giorgi wrote:
| musmala is completly different plant and fruit.
| pierrec wrote:
| All these quotes form Jane Steward and they never link to her
| website. It's nice, makes the fruit look a bit more appetizing:
| https://eastgatelarder.co.uk/
| zeteo wrote:
| A few months ago I had a jar of medlar jelly shipped over from
| the UK via Amazon. It was not cheap but very tasty; the flavor
| reminded me a bit of quince jelly, another pretty rare item in
| the US. I'd like to have it again sometime, maybe for a special
| occasion.
|
| The rest of my medieval foods bucket list includes purslane and
| sorrel. It looks like I'll have to grow both of them from seeds
| as I have no hope of buying them from a store anytime soon.
| twic wrote:
| I haven't had sorrel in ages, but it's amazing. Intensely
| sharp, lemony flavour. A classic thing to do is to stuff it
| inside a mackerel and grill it.
| justincormack wrote:
| sorrel is not terribly exciting. I think it should grow from
| seed easily.
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| Purslane, at least, is extremely easy to grow. It can actually
| become a weed in some circumstances.
|
| Quite tasty. I haven't grown it for a few years, but it's on my
| seed list now. Thanks for the reminder!
| bserge wrote:
| Oh, you reminded me of quince jam. That used to be my favorite.
| I haven't seen any for over a decade, quince trees used to be
| common in my home country, but they fell out of favour for some
| reason and very few people grow them anymore.
|
| Quince jam and quince juice were great.
| haroldp wrote:
| Quince are naturally very high in pectin, so they were often
| grown to be added to other fruit as a thickener in jams.
| These days people just buy commercially produced pectin, or
| more likely, don't make jam at all.
| [deleted]
| mprovost wrote:
| There are a couple of these trees in my local park in London. I
| collect windfall fruit in the autumn. Nobody else seems to notice
| all the free fruit! I put them in a box in a closet for a month
| or so and then make jelly. It goes a really deep red colour and
| has a nice, unique flavour.
| thefourthchime wrote:
| Fascinating read! I really wanted to try this until I got to this
| part.
|
| A humorous research paper from 1989 gathered together some
| classic put-downs, including "At best, it is only one degree
| better than a rotten apple" - from a 19th Century gardening book
| - and "the medlar is not... worth a turd until it's ripe, and
| then it tastes like shit" - reportedly the opinion of an
| anonymous medieval author.
| robotmay wrote:
| It makes a very nice jam, for what it's worth.
| kefabean wrote:
| Funnily enough I stumbled upon such a tree while out for a walk
| in Surrey (UK) last November. Amazed to see a tree laden with
| fruit in winter, I loaded my rucksack thinking they were some
| kind of strange quince or something. It was only after a bit of
| internet research I discovered they were this weird medieval
| fruit called a Medlar. Out of curiosity I duly 'bletted' them and
| 4 or so weeks later turned them in to medlar-crumble slice. Would
| certainly agree they taste "like over-ripe dates mingled with
| lemons". A lot of faff, but very delicious!
| barathr wrote:
| The same process takes place with astringent persimmons.
| Persimmons are even weirder because they have four types:
| pollination constant non-astringent (PCNA), pollination variant
| non-astringent (PVNA), pollination constant astringent (PCA),
| pollination variant astringent (PVA).
|
| That means that some (very tasty) types of persimmon can be
| astringent or sweet when hard depending on whether they were
| pollinated, which is nearly impossible to tell just by looking at
| the fruit. The most well known categories of persimmons, at least
| in the US -- Fuyu types (PCNA) and Hachiya (PCA) -- are not
| pollination variant.
| richk449 wrote:
| That explains a lot. I only buy fuyu persimmons now, because
| when I have tried the other kinds, they have been inedible -
| very astringent.
|
| Do people do anything with the astringent types? Do they get
| better if I wait?
| barathr wrote:
| You have to wait until they are extremely soft -- then
| they'll be very very sweet (and juicy). I tend to only buy
| and grow non-astringent persimmons because it's a hassle.
|
| People also dry them -- there's a whole process for this (one
| link among many):
|
| https://www.umami-insider.com/hoshigaki-japanese-dried-
| persi...
| modeless wrote:
| Weird Fruit Explorer just did an episode on these if you want to
| see what they're like: https://youtu.be/IKZsMNfRiRE
|
| The whole channel is fascinating. Probably my favorite niche
| YouTube channel. I had no idea just how many edible fruits are
| out there and how strange many of them are. Makes me want to quit
| my job and travel around the world finding thousands of weird
| fruits to eat.
| Giorgi wrote:
| I don't know, we have it everywhere in Eastern Europe. Maybe US
| did forget it.
| Symbiote wrote:
| I think it's more likely that one BBC journalist and their
| friends hadn't heard of it, because they don't sell it in
| Waitrose.
|
| They can make a whole series of articles, as they "discover"
| damsons, greengage, quince, mulberries, gooseberries, etc.
|
| (Between my parents, grandparents, and places like the car park
| at the back of my mum's office, we picked all of these in
| England.)
|
| There are plenty of results on British websites for medlar
| trees (for gardeners) and recipes for the fruit.
| ardit33 wrote:
| Looks like Albanian muc-molla
|
| They are very tasty, and can be eaten like a mini apple or pear.
| They taste like a combination between a pear and an apple. I used
| to have one in my home/garden.
|
| ...it is the baby of the rose family. This little tree produces
| small fruits in brown to rust color.
|
| These fruits are similar to those of the wild rose, but larger in
| size.
|
| https://www.classlifestyle.com/news/39341/mucmolla-shqiptare...
| nkurz wrote:
| Your link isn't working for me, but this video confirms that
| muc-molla is indeed the same fruit as medlar:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpgCdAXb-Xo
| ardit33 wrote:
| thanks, fixed it
| adrian_b wrote:
| That is the Turkish name of the medlar.
|
| This name is used in many Balkanic countries.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| From the original article
|
| > It's still widely grown in Iran, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan,
| Georgia and Turkey, where it's sold in markets as musmula.
|
| Yup, that's the same word. Thanks, Ottomans.
| hcho wrote:
| The word is actually of Greek origin. Who spread it is
| difficult to tell.
| [deleted]
| twic wrote:
| I knew it would be the medlar before i clicked! Perhaps i spend
| too much time reading about rude fruit.
|
| Anyway, it's a great little fruit, makes superb jelly and cheese
| (ie jelly with pulp, like a very thick jam). Somewhere between
| plum and date in flavour, perhaps.
|
| I have a jar of my father's medlar cheese in the fridge, might go
| and pop a bit on some cheese ...
| pjsg wrote:
| Medlar trees are not that hard to come by in the US -- I have a
| couple in my orchard -- one is really prolific and we make a fair
| amount of medlar jelly each year. I hadn't realized that medlars
| were not that well known!
| rahimiali wrote:
| The article says the medlar is "musmula" in Persian. Maybe, but
| if you're Iranian, you'll more likely know it as "marmala".
| Reading this, this sounds oddly like "marmalade", which according
| to Wikipedia, comes from the Portuguese. But unlike the English
| version of marmalade, which is made from citrus, the original
| Portuguese is made from quince, an Asian fruit. My guess is this
| was actually initially made from marmala, and quince as only a
| variant. What a wonderful etymological chase through the name of
| a fruit.
| yellowapple wrote:
| That both fruits are in the _Malinae_ subtribe and both
| typically need bletted before they 're edible lends credence to
| this hypothesis.
| riffraff wrote:
| the italian word is "nespola" and the latin is "mespilus", so
| probably there's some shared indo-european root with "musmula".
| everyone wrote:
| Theres a medlar tree growing in Waterford city (near the Bishops
| palace) I know an old guy who picks the fruit from it and makes
| jam. Out of curiosity we picked a couple once, left them for a
| long time and tried them. They were ok.
| nkurz wrote:
| Wow, what a great article! And it links to one of my favorite
| botany papers every written: "The Medlar (Mespilus germanica,
| Rosaceae) from Antiquity to Obscurity" by John R. Baird and John
| W. Thieret, Economic Botany Vol. 43, No. 3 (Jul. - Sep., 1989),
| pp. 328-372 (45 pages)
|
| https://www.jstor.org/stable/4255177
|
| https://sci-hub.do/https://www.jstor.org/stable/4255177
|
| I read this by chance when it came out, and for a long while
| couldn't figure out whether it was a parody or a real scientific
| article. The whole story seemed so vastly improbable: a vulgar
| fruit central to Shakespeare that we've mostly forgotten about
| today, unable to be eaten until it's been rotted in sawdust for a
| few months --- pull the other one! Anyway, if the BBC article
| whets your interest in the medlar, you should definitely check
| out the full article. It's a gem.
| dan-robertson wrote:
| To be clear the 'bletting' process isn't really rotting. There
| isn't bacterial or fungal decomposition. Instead it is enzymes
| within the fruit which slowly react with and transform it. This
| isn't wholly dissimilar from normal fruit ripening which can
| happen after the fruit has been picked.
| whyenot wrote:
| Yes, it's not rotting, just ripening, the same as the process
| (astringent) persimmons. Describing it as "rotten" is being a
| little overly dramatic.
| Angostura wrote:
| My favourite line from the article: "The process is known as
| "bletting", a word made-up by a botanist who noticed there
| wasn't one in 1839."
| fy20 wrote:
| How is this different from ripening? Many commercial fruits
| are picked unripe, then during transportation (it takes
| bananas up to two weeks to travel from South America to
| Europe) they ripen off ready for sale.
| ksherlock wrote:
| Or dry aging beef.
| notorandit wrote:
| We have a similar fruit in southern Italy. It's from the sorbus
| genus. It used to be consumed (almost) rotten during the months
| of December and January.
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| Sorbus trees are usually called "rowan" or "mountain ash" in
| English. And yep, they also need bletting to be at their best.
|
| Mountain ash is a popular landscaping tree here. Birds
| (particularly waxwings) flock to them in winter when there's
| little else to eat (and presumably when the fruit has become
| less bitter, thanks to bletting).
| DonaldFisk wrote:
| Another Sorbus species is the Wild Service Tree, or Sorbus
| torminalis. The trees grow in England. The fruit is the
| chequerberry, which also needs bletting before it's edible.
| The flavour's similar to tamarind.
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(page generated 2021-03-28 23:00 UTC)