[HN Gopher] BitClout, a social network with big backers and voca...
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       BitClout, a social network with big backers and vocal critics
        
       Author : elsewhen
       Score  : 85 points
       Date   : 2021-03-28 11:18 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (decrypt.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (decrypt.co)
        
       | brodo wrote:
       | "What you get to do is monetize yourself," says Diamondhands.
       | 
       | Marx said that capitalism turns everything - including people and
       | their interactions with each other - into commodities. He did not
       | know on how many levels he was right.
        
         | keenreed wrote:
         | Marxism is much better, but it has nasty habit of killing
         | farmers and starving its people to death.
        
           | brodo wrote:
           | Marx is the most important critic of capitalism and
           | dismissing his critique with "Stalin though" does not really
           | address the point. Even if you think Marxism is totally bad
           | in all it's forms that does not mean that Marx' critique of
           | capitalism is invalid. You don't have to be a cook to know if
           | a soup is over-salted.
        
         | guscost wrote:
         | Sure, but maybe this is still progress. I would much rather be
         | "publicly traded" than "privately held".
         | 
         | Also, missing from this argument is the inevitability that
         | every communist government just outright _enslaves_ its people.
        
       | llaolleh wrote:
       | My take on the Bitclout is that it's another mechanism for people
       | to hedge inflationary risk by pegging the value of their cash to
       | the individual. The revolutionary idea that this project seems to
       | get at is that anyone can create their own currency. If you think
       | about it in those terms it's a powerful idea. It's decentralizing
       | the decentralized financial system one step further.
       | 
       | But in no way I would classify this is a decentralized version of
       | Twitter. Lot of things are not quite correct.
        
         | AzzieElbab wrote:
         | Well put. That is how I see it as well. "Decentralised Twitter"
         | is just a phrase used to politicise the product
        
       | ketamine__ wrote:
       | Alleged CEO: https://twitter.com/nadertheory?s=09
       | 
       | Previous venture: https://medium.com/basis-blog/basis-update-
       | ae96e3565b1d
        
         | paulgb wrote:
         | Isn't that the guy who raised $100M+ for a stablecoin that was
         | fundamentally flawed and then blamed regulators when it didn't
         | work?
         | 
         | Edit: Just saw your edit, that's the one.
        
           | ketamine__ wrote:
           | Yep, added link.
        
       | serial_dev wrote:
       | Is that you, MeowMeowBeenz?
        
         | glrsbstrd wrote:
         | lol hahaha xD
        
         | glrsbstrd wrote:
         | Thts funny
        
       | AzzieElbab wrote:
       | I actually like the idea of content creators monetisation upfront
       | whether bitclout will work or not
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | Doesn't that already exist in the form of Patreon, YouTube
         | Premium or even OnlyFans, and works very well without being
         | attached to some kind of useless blockchain/cryptocurrency?
        
           | AzzieElbab wrote:
           | Not really, because these platforms technically own your
           | content
        
             | smt88 wrote:
             | No they don't. You still have full rights to your content
             | that you post there.
        
               | AzzieElbab wrote:
               | Ok content - yes, monetisation - no, distribution/reach -
               | no.
        
               | sudo_raspberry wrote:
               | If you delete your video from youtube, they have the
               | right to store it on their servers until they want to get
               | rid of it, and you're allowing people to use your
               | content, i.e reactions videos, which are oddly popular
               | these days.
        
               | the_local_host wrote:
               | Wait, what? How are other people allowed to use the
               | content? I mean, I'm sure it happens, regardless of being
               | allowed, but it seems like a content owner would be able
               | to issue a DMCA takedown to stop it.
        
       | iloveluce wrote:
       | The founder claims he has investments from Sequoia, Andreessen
       | and Social Capital??!?!
       | 
       | This is from their Techcrunch
       | https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/22/crypto-social-network-bitc...
       | 
       | I don't think this true which makes me think this is a scam
        
         | FreeRadical wrote:
         | It's true, it's been verified via other sources
        
         | radihuq wrote:
         | It is true, Chamath from Social Capital mentioned it towards
         | the end of the recent All-In podcast
        
         | mike_d wrote:
         | They claim to have received investment from Winklevoss Capital,
         | and both the Winklevoss twins have claimed their profiles. I
         | imagine that wouldn't happen for a company falsely claiming
         | their affiliation.
        
       | Ariarule wrote:
       | I am surprised given both the similarity even in _name_ and using
       | the a similar practice of creating profiles with an assigned
       | value from public profiles on social media sites that this is not
       | drawing more comparisons with Klout. Has Klout been dead _that_
       | long? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klout
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | I have to unfollow people on Twitter whenever they start pitching
       | their Substack, affiliate links, paid courses, or other money
       | making enterprise. I use social media for information, not to be
       | turned into a money-making asset for those I follow.
       | 
       | Weaving markets and cryptocurrency into the fabric of a social
       | network sounds like a dream come true for people trying to
       | monetize their followers, but a nightmare for anyone who actually
       | wants to follow them.
       | 
       | BitClout also uses some nasty dark patterns to get people to sign
       | up. They scrape your profile from other social media sites, then
       | assign it a "value" with a dollar amount. You have to sign up to
       | claim the value, but after signing up you discover that the value
       | isn't real and you aren't claiming the supposed money that was
       | waiting for you.
        
         | bidirectional wrote:
         | As an aside, I agree regarding the constant advertisement on
         | Twitter, but I find the constant oversharing even worse. So
         | many times I will see a few quality tweets from someone I don't
         | follow, either retweeted by people I do follow or just
         | recommended by the Twitter algorithm. Then when I do follow
         | them the occasional interesting tweet is outnumbered 10:1 by
         | mundane personal information about e.g. their kids or what
         | they're having for dinner. No complaints about random people
         | who use it as a social platform amongst friends doing this, but
         | serious jouranlists with 50k followers who use Twitter as a
         | career tool also do it. It reeks of narcissism.
        
           | SkyMarshal wrote:
           | I just unfollow people who have no Twitter-discipline and
           | post random useless personal stuff, even if they do post
           | quality tweets every now and then. Best to keep your follower
           | list small and selective. Quality info will still get to you.
        
           | near wrote:
           | Different people follow for different things. Some people
           | like seeing that other stuff. It would be very helpful if
           | Twitter let accounts tag tweets into categories, and let
           | people choose to subscribe or unsubscribe to those.
           | Maintaining multiple Twitter accounts for different content
           | is very tedious. No doubt your point is valid as well, it's
           | easy to get addicted to that platform, and the likes and
           | notification system gamifies that need for validation.
        
             | nocommandline wrote:
             | >>> It would be very helpful if Twitter let accounts tag
             | tweets into categories, <<<
             | 
             | Something close is 'Topics' where Twitter automatically
             | categorizes tweets into Topics such as Programming, Sports,
             | Startup, etc. You can follow a topic and thus see only
             | tweets in that group. So Mr A sends 2 tweets - one about
             | his kids and the other about Python. If you're following
             | the topic 'Programming', you'll only see the second tweet
        
           | throwaway1777 wrote:
           | I gotta disagree there. The original Twitter was all about
           | sharing random shit. People take it too seriously sometimes
           | now that it's big business.
        
         | ric2b wrote:
         | Did you mean BitClout, on your last paragraph?
        
           | PragmaticPulp wrote:
           | Yes, thank you. Autocorrect changed it. Fixed.
        
         | solosoyokaze wrote:
         | The only reason to publish something to social media is to
         | promote your business initiatives. Otherwise you're just
         | letting an ill behaving private company monetize your
         | personal/social life. You can either be exploited or leverage
         | the system for whatever gain you can eek out of it.
        
         | brnt wrote:
         | > I use social media for information
         | 
         | Oh boy.
        
         | mike_d wrote:
         | > They scrape your profile from other social media sites, then
         | assign it a "value" with a dollar amount. You have to sign up
         | to claim the value
         | 
         | Only if you are one of the ~1500 initial users they seeded the
         | system with. You don't have any money waiting for you because
         | nobody has invested in you.
        
         | AzzieElbab wrote:
         | I actually pay for few substacks. I do not see anything wrong
         | with paying for independent content and none of the people I
         | subscribe to had ever over advertised. To me it is about the
         | value these people provide.
        
           | risyachka wrote:
           | Totally agree. If Substack or self-promoted book has good
           | value - I am thankful that people promote it.
           | 
           | Dismissive attitude makes you miss out on a lot of
           | opportunities.
        
           | PragmaticPulp wrote:
           | I'm also subscribed to a few substacks, but I don't want to
           | subscribe to 20 different people's newsletters.
           | 
           | Nothing wrong with paying for content, but I don't want my
           | Twitter feed full of daily pitches to sign up for the same
           | thing over and over again. I use Twitter as a social network
           | to communicate with people, not consume advertisements for
           | content on other platforms. When someone turns their Twitter
           | feed into a stream of ads or asks, I unfollow.
        
         | thejohnconway wrote:
         | That attitude seems extraordinary to me. People need to make a
         | living, and if you don't pay them to produce the stuff you
         | like, either they will stop doing it, or turn to shady crap
         | like whatever this BitClout thing is, NFTs, or just spyware
         | advertising.
        
           | PragmaticPulp wrote:
           | Nothing wrong with making a living, but I don't visit Twitter
           | every day to see streams of advertisements any more than I
           | watch YouTube so I can see the ads. I don't mind seeing
           | occasional ads or asks or self-promotion, but when the self-
           | promotion drowns out the useful content I unfollow.
           | 
           | > if you don't pay them to produce the stuff you like, either
           | they will stop doing it, or turn to shady crap like whatever
           | this BitClout thing is, NFTs, or just spyware advertising.
           | 
           | What a cynical take. "Pay me or I'll advertise spyware!" It
           | doesn't work like that. I use Twitter as a social network to
           | communicate with people, not to be pitched products I don't
           | want.
           | 
           | I'm not asking for free stuff, I just want a decent signal to
           | noise ratio and some honest conversations.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | It's the individual's choice to turn their personal Twitter
           | (or email list or blog) into a billboard. Similarly it is the
           | user's choice to unfollow said individual if they dislike
           | billboards.
           | 
           | I myself have had to do this for numerous art accounts as
           | sometime in 2021 they all started shilling NFTs.
        
             | thejohnconway wrote:
             | Who said it wasn't an individual choice? Many things you're
             | perfectly within your rights to do have negative or
             | perverse consequences.
             | 
             | For nearly all artists, their "personal" Twitter was always
             | a billboard. If you have been enjoying people's art, but
             | never given them any money for it _, it's hardly surprising
             | they turn to some strategy that might make them money, is
             | it?
             | 
             | _ If you have been financially supporting artists you like
             | in some other way, this doesn't apply.
        
         | snicksnak wrote:
         | > I use social media for information, not to be turned into a
         | money-making asset for those I follow.
         | 
         | can you describe what you use as sources of information on
         | twitter? Can't be any traditional media outlets because they
         | also want you to pay.
        
           | meowface wrote:
           | There are many independent individuals who share interesting
           | information and opinions on Twitter. But they're stuck in a
           | sea of... everything else everyone associates with Twitter.
           | 
           | I strongly doubt they meant following a corporation's
           | Twitter, or something like that.
        
           | the_snooze wrote:
           | If it's available where you live, very local news (like at
           | the neighborhood or town level) is pretty useful to follow
           | for info like why a road is closed or what local trails you
           | should check out.
           | 
           | Professionally, I also follow academic conferences I'm
           | involved in. They tweet announcements like deadlines and
           | highlight new research.
        
         | root_axis wrote:
         | > _I use social media for information, not to be turned into a
         | money-making asset for those I follow._
         | 
         | I mean it's social media... literally the entire purpose of it
         | is to monetize you, any information you manage to extract from
         | it is just a tertiary side effect. Not only that, but typically
         | the quality of information exchanged on social media is of the
         | lowest quality, so you're really getting a bad deal on the
         | whole if this is your expectation.
        
       | Roark66 wrote:
       | For f**'s sake, when will people with money stop funding every
       | stupid idea just because it involves
       | (blockchain|token|social|web3.0)?
       | 
       | This whole ecosystem starts to really remind me of Ponzi
       | schemes.Im quite curious why regulators don't see the same thing.
        
         | loceng wrote:
         | It does mimic an MLM-Pyramid and Ponzi scheme, and this is
         | exactly why they keep investing - they need to keep it moving -
         | creating tools for people to use, even though competitively
         | they cost more - but for early adopters using their early
         | bought Bitcoin (etc) they've already gained profit and aren't
         | spending their initial investment, they are also re-investing
         | to perpetuate the appearance of adoption and usefulness.
         | 
         | Nowhere have I ever seen a "this is how much this costs vs.
         | current options" in pitch decks for these companies though -
         | price competitiveness since the beginning of time being the
         | most important factor for competition (aside from governance
         | which we'll eventually get back to).
         | 
         | Edit to add: I 100% expect all of my counter-narrative posts to
         | get downvoted as Bitcoin "army of HODLers" is financially
         | incentivized to suppress anything negative about their scheme.
        
           | Nextgrid wrote:
           | In this case it indeed seems like a Ponzi scheme, but in a
           | lot of cases where businesses suddenly decide to (re)do a
           | solved problem with blockchain, it's more in an attempt to
           | raise VC funding or buy-in from large clueless companies
           | rather than from crypto people.
        
           | meowface wrote:
           | Don't worry, I think the majority of HN readers essentially
           | share your opinion. Possibly even the vast majority.
           | 
           | The people who get downvoted are the ones who say
           | cryptocurrencies - as a technology - serve absolutely no
           | purpose to humanity other than scams, fraud, laundering, drug
           | trafficking, and other criminal activity, as well as useless
           | zero-sum speculation and shuffling around of funny money, at
           | the cost of country-level electricity use dedicated solely to
           | generating and hashing pseudorandom numbers all day.
           | 
           | (Which isn't that far off the mark, but it elides the
           | genuinely interesting aspects of the technological and
           | cryptographic innovations, as well as the full potential of
           | general-purpose decentralized smart contracts and all the
           | current legitimate use cases. Plus the fact that Proof of
           | Stake, if successful, basically eliminates the electricity
           | and environmental problems.)
        
           | CynicusRex wrote:
           | >It does mimic an MLM-Pyramid and Ponzi scheme
           | 
           | It does so because it is.
        
         | Sebb767 wrote:
         | Aren't we at web 4.0 now?
         | 
         | (slightly sarcastic, but honest question)
        
         | ValentineC wrote:
         | You forgot NFTs, which are what I would consider to _really_ be
         | like the tulip mania [1] of old.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
        
         | solosoyokaze wrote:
         | Investors always pour into spaces and make a ton of bad bets.
         | How many photo sharing apps got funded? Social networks?
         | Podcast things?
         | 
         | Most investments are bad and most investors aren't very good.
         | The crypto stuff is just the latest investment trend, but not
         | really different than what came before it.
        
         | dageshi wrote:
         | Cause they made a ton of money on some equally daft idea in the
         | past?
        
         | jancsika wrote:
         | > For f*'s sake, when will people with money stop funding every
         | stupid idea just because it involves
         | (blockchain|token|social|web3.0)?
         | 
         | I feel exactly the same way-- investors would do way better
         | with ideas that involve (blockchain&(token|social|web3.0))
         | 
         | If we go that route regulators will be too busy making money
         | hand over fist to even think about becoming crony capitalists.
        
       | anm89 wrote:
       | I don't really care about this topic but this wreaks of a hit
       | piece.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-28 23:02 UTC)