[HN Gopher] I tracked down my impostor
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I tracked down my impostor
        
       Author : vanilla-almond
       Score  : 421 points
       Date   : 2021-03-27 18:02 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | dakial1 wrote:
       | This seems a case of a high level mythomaniac. Funnily enough
       | I've encountered some in the recent years that got me thinking if
       | this kind of psycho disease was increasing or simply I got more
       | knowledgeable in a way that I started spotting it. I really don't
       | know, because we can clearly spot this kind of people today
       | (Trump anyone?) but is it getting worse or have they always been
       | there?
       | 
       | It something impressive the lenghts these kind of people go with
       | their lies and deception, keeping a straight face even when the
       | lie is obvious.
        
         | MrsPeaches wrote:
         | > that got me thinking if this kind of psycho disease was
         | increasing or simply I got more knowledgeable in a way that I
         | started spotting it
         | 
         | Just FYI it's known as the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon or the
         | Frequency illusion [1]
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure people who habitually lie about basically
         | everything (Sayre's law applies, for some weird reason) are
         | simply believing their own lies and cannot consistently tell
         | reality from their made-up world. Any conflict between reality
         | and their world is met with a defensive response (straight up
         | acting like something was not brought up, shallow dismissals,
         | changing topics, aggression).
         | 
         | I didn't know there's a special word for this - mythomaniac - I
         | just figured these guys are somewhere on the
         | psychopath/sociopath scale.
         | 
         | Edit: Trump put a slightly different twist on it, he lied as a
         | show of power/dominance by lying about something which is
         | immediately and obviously false, then observing that no one
         | speaks up (i.e. submitting to his power).
        
       | disabled wrote:
       | I have been a victim of this, and it is still an ongoing matter.
       | If you don't want to find yourself a victim of these kinds of
       | people, then you better keep these two links as a reference, and
       | always take them to heart:
       | 
       | Narcissists Online:
       | http://www.issendai.com/psychology/narcissism/narcissists-on...
       | 
       | What to Remember When Dealing with a Narcissist:
       | http://www.issendai.com/psychology/narcissism/narcissists-wh...
       | 
       | People who do this sort of stuff have narcissistic traits at
       | minimum, which of course is an armchair diagnosis. But, these
       | people really do not need to meet the criteria for narcissistic
       | personality disorder. All you need to know is that they are
       | people who will harm you in some incredibly hurtful way, because
       | they have contempt for you being yourself.
       | 
       | Some of these people have antisocial traits, and are malignant
       | narcissists. Some of them outright have both narcissistic
       | personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder.
       | 
       | Regardless, these people tend to masquerade as "entrepreneurs",
       | "researchers", "thinkers", "doers", or as "authors", when their
       | entire works are just plagiarized material from others. People
       | make entire livings off of such grifts and it becomes a central
       | identity, if not their only identity. Of course, it is always
       | about getting the next award or accolade, even though it is
       | "empty" to them because they have intrinsically low self-esteem
       | and an unbelievably fragile ego. But, of course they would never
       | want you to know that.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | N00bN00b wrote:
         | I doubt it's a narcissist and I'm saying that as a narcissist
         | myself.
         | 
         | That fragile ego basically means narcissists are afraid of
         | humiliation. On top that, mentally everything is build around
         | shoring up my ego to compensate for the low self esteem. My
         | ego. Not someone else's ego. I'd have to do some really weird
         | mental gymnastics to be satisfied with copying someone else's
         | work, that would just lower my ego even more. I guess it's
         | doable if I straight up _believe_ I 'm that other person? But
         | now we're talking about something really special and uncommon.
         | Not just a narcissist anymore. The narcissistic self deception
         | is involuntary, I can't just say "well, I know I'm copying the
         | work of that person, but now I believe that's me." It doesn't
         | work like that.
         | 
         | The person doing this clearly knew there was considerable risk
         | of getting caught and being exposed. That's someone that
         | doesn't give a fuck about the social consequences.
         | 
         | So you were closer with the malignants, but it's probably just
         | a sociopath (ASPD). A lot more rare in general and more willing
         | to take risks.
        
           | numpad0 wrote:
           | I don't quite understand the downvotes. Narcissists,
           | psychopaths, autistic, etc are technical terms, not an
           | abstract labeling for "smart person with completely inhuman
           | thinking".
           | 
           | Pointing at who seems to be an insane man and calling him a
           | "narcissist" is like pointing at a Chrome window and saying
           | "this folder on Desktop" and okay grandma I get it but that
           | is technically wrong. OP is just explaining the situation.
           | 
           | The Internet when I grew up was abundant of horror stories
           | around encounter with insane person, and there were
           | definitely multiple different modes of failure, like charging
           | towards the storyteller with a knife in hand, the person
           | leaving the identity behind as if it was nothing, storyteller
           | being the unreliable narrator, etc etc. Usually the best
           | response seemed to be either to display a skill that the
           | imposter can't replicate, or applying hard rules that allows
           | no alternate interpretations so that they cannot elongate the
           | drama.
           | 
           | I don't know which cliche suggests which diagnosis and
           | armchair diagnosis is at best useless, but it is true that
           | there are types, and if OP thinks it's not the same type as
           | his own, that is at least an anecdatapoint.
           | 
           | e: ok I didn't read the top comment. Clinical distinction
           | don't matter, you just have to know how to defend against.
           | And it's documented. That is right. I'll keep this comment as
           | a shame to myself.
        
             | sillysaurusx wrote:
             | Mm, no, I think I agree with your original assessment. You
             | and the top comment both seem correct.
             | 
             | (Also, no need to think of it as a shame game. It's more
             | interesting to learn something.)
             | 
             | Let's put it this way. If you're mistaken, then I don't
             | understand it either, so hopefully someone will explain.
             | 
             | More concretely, reading the list of how to defend against
             | narcissism, it felt like lots of people tend to have some
             | of these traits, but usually not all of them. If it's a
             | partial match, how should you interpret it? Is there some
             | sort of narcissistic meter that goes up as you accumulate
             | points?
             | 
             | It seems hard to define.
        
           | rriepe wrote:
           | > The narcissistic self deception is involuntary
           | 
           | Self-aware narcissists are pretty rare too. Can you e-mail
           | me? Info in profile.
        
             | aiisjustanif wrote:
             | What evidence is there that it is rare?
        
               | N00bN00b wrote:
               | I'd say it's fairly rare. Most therapists often won't
               | diagnose patients, because it's considered not helpful to
               | the trust relationship and trying to make someone that's
               | narcissistic understand that they are narcissistic is...
               | Hard, because of the splitting and the disconnect between
               | the internal self image and the external presentation.
               | 
               | They'll often mirror or turn it back on you and there's
               | not much you can say at that point ("I'm a narcissist?
               | No! You are a narcissist!"). It's a tricky disorder.
        
             | N00bN00b wrote:
             | Here:
             | 
             | https://www.reddit.com/r/narcissism/comments/mde5fh/biweekl
             | y...
             | 
             | It's my post/sub. You're free to dig in my history and/or
             | DM me.
             | 
             | And of course there are plenty more self aware narcissists
             | to hang out with as well.
        
               | sillysaurusx wrote:
               | You created /r/narcissism, and also label yourself a
               | narcissist? That has to be some kind of high score or
               | something. :)
               | 
               | Very interesting. Thanks for posting it.
        
               | rriepe wrote:
               | Thanks. Contacted you there.
        
         | Veen wrote:
         | > Regardless, these people tend to masquerade as
         | "entrepreneurs", "researchers", "thinkers", "doers", or as
         | "authors"
         | 
         | And activists.
        
           | longshui wrote:
           | when it is in a circle where the people know more or less who
           | is who, its unlikely to happen any masquerading
           | 
           | sometimes there are misunderstandings and some in the circle
           | may have the impression that there is some masquerading going
           | on
           | 
           | sooner or later, I guess, things naturally clarify as time
           | flows and the views are prettier
        
             | disabled wrote:
             | It is not a figment of my imagination: There were things
             | going on besides multiple forms of outright plagiarism
             | within several submissions. Because there are often
             | multiple forms of plagiarism occurring in the same
             | submission, once you catch it, it's pretty clear cut that
             | it was deliberate. It is not only in writing but at actual
             | conferences when she gives speeches.
             | 
             | The individual I mention is known to wear a custom "code
             | t-shirt" of the program (aka "product") that she claims to
             | be her original work, to conferences and meetups. The
             | t-shirt along with the code itself has the /exact same
             | specific variable names/ that I provided via email to a
             | colleague years ago. She is also seen wearing this t-shirt
             | in several media publications. She also publishes
             | "research" based on this "work" in peer-reviewed journal
             | articles. It really is quite disgusting.
        
               | longshui wrote:
               | I was not talking about your experience , by any means,
               | sorry if you understood that I was aluding to your
               | comment, its not the actual situation at all
               | 
               | I was comenting on the parent of my comment, not on your
               | comment, and I was talking, clearly, in a general sense,
               | in a quite specific situation that is absolutely
               | different then your experience
        
         | snvzz wrote:
         | A popular label they pick these days is Moralist.
         | 
         | https://aeon.co/essays/how-the-cruel-moraliser-uses-a-halo-t...
        
           | de_nied wrote:
           | Really enjoyed reading this. Fantastic essay.
           | 
           | I disagree that the label is "moralist". The essay outlines
           | various types of moralism, which I think is important to
           | distinct them. Such as vain vs cruel and pure vs impure
           | moralism.
           | 
           | However, regardless of all that, there are two important
           | questions to ask when dealing with moralism. First, what's
           | the motivation? Second, what's the method of implementation?
           | A cruel moralist is motivated by self-validation in moral
           | superiority, and a vain moralist is motivated by group-
           | validation (vanity) that uses moralism as a tool (their
           | method of implementation).
           | 
           | In this case, it is vanity that is the motivation, but
           | _narcissism_ in how they go about doing it. Moralism is
           | neither a motivation, nor a method of execution.
        
           | cycomanic wrote:
           | I really don't see any connection. Can you elaborate.
        
         | imesh wrote:
         | Our neighbor started doing this with my dad. My dad was a
         | school teacher and didn't have any sort of content to
         | plagiarize. The man started buying the same clothing as my
         | father, the same surfboard, same car, dyed his hair the same
         | color and got the same haircut, got fake glasses in the same
         | style and even started copying his mannerisms. It was bizarre.
         | We moved shortly after it started for unrelated reasons but it
         | was pretty terrifying as a young kid.
         | 
         | Interestingly enough, he was a PHD student.
        
           | fnord77 wrote:
           | I bet PhD programs attract narcissists like flies to ...
           | 
           | In a way, a PhD could be seen as the ultimate intellectual
           | validation.
        
           | moksly wrote:
           | A tip to get rid of an annoying neighbour perhaps? :p
        
         | nvarsj wrote:
         | I was also a victim of this. At my first engineering job, I
         | came up with a novel way to handle project estimation for a
         | very large company, using a combination of basic statistical
         | techniques (hierarchical linear regression, markov chains). It
         | replaced an existing terrible model by the resident PhD in
         | statistics, which was doing a very simple 2 degree fitted
         | curve.
         | 
         | Anyways, this person seemed to really dislike our team and what
         | we had accomplished, and was constantly trying to road block us
         | for a long time. Then out of the blue, he asked us to come and
         | explain it to him. I thought he was reconciling, and we showed
         | him all the details and spent a while so he could understand.
         | We provided him the implementation as well. Then 3-4 weeks
         | later, he quit to go work at Apple. It seemed like he'd stolen
         | our work to improve his career.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | If he took the implementation with him to Apple that's IP
           | theft. Did you mention this to legal at your employer? They
           | might have a case there.
        
             | nvarsj wrote:
             | Maybe we should have. This was well over a decade ago now.
             | It wasn't something we could easily prove either. We just
             | had strong suspicions based on the timing and his behavior.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | It wouldn't surprise me at all. One of the things that we
               | check for during technical DD is to ensure that all of
               | the IP the company claims as theirs really is theirs.
               | Large dumps of code into a repo just after incorporation
               | or just after a new hire are pretty suspicious and
               | require an explanation, such an explanation isn't always
               | available.
               | 
               | Good team leads / code reviewers / laywers can be real
               | assets because they will stop such a thing before it gets
               | to the stage of doing significant damage to the company.
               | 
               | If you have a 1000x programmer on your team you may have
               | a problem (or you've hired Fabrice).
               | 
               | Copyright lawsuits have one interesting property: the
               | statue of limitations starts when you first became aware
               | of the infringement, not when the deed was done. So you
               | may _still_ have a case, even today, because technically
               | you are still unaware that the infringement happened, it
               | may have happened, but you have no proof. If such proof
               | ever surfaces then that would be the point in time to
               | trigger the suit, and such proof can be obtained through
               | the weirdest channels.
               | 
               | I once became aware a company had been started by an ex
               | employee based on a large body of code that I wrote, and
               | through sheer chance I found a tiny sliver of really hard
               | proof. That's what set the ball rolling.
        
               | Anthony-G wrote:
               | In case any case any readers don't know who "Fabrice" is:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrice_Bellard
        
           | 13of40 wrote:
           | About 15 years ago I worked on a command line shell that was
           | adding a remoting feature which would allow you to execute a
           | shell command on a remote machine. When the first cut of this
           | came out, it seemed like it worked fine, but I decided to try
           | it across a high latency connection - specifically setting up
           | an inbound connection to the public internet and routing it
           | from our office in the US to a proxy in Hong Kong and back.
           | It performed about like a connection over a 300 baud modem.
           | So I spent a weekend furiously creating a private build that
           | reduced the number of handshakes and added streaming
           | compression that ultimately increased the throughput by
           | something like a factor of 20. On Monday I shared this work
           | with the extended engineering team, and...crickets. I was
           | just a tester after all, you know. The perf was improved
           | after that, but nobody acknowledged the real world testing
           | I'd done, much less the analysis and POC dev work. But flash
           | forward a few years, and my career has progressed. Suddenly I
           | am a manager in a performance review meeting where the
           | promotion of someone I used to work with was up for
           | discussion. I sat across the table from the person's boss
           | when he capped off his argument for promotion with
           | (paraphrasing), "and let's all remember, this is the genius
           | who figured out we needed to add compression to our remoting
           | stream."
        
       | WoodenChair wrote:
       | This is a crazy story. Especially the part where the person just
       | claimed the other person's work as his own, not even pretending
       | they were doing another version of it (more typical plagiarism).
       | A small version of this happened to me many years ago. A dude who
       | was a technical editor on my first book (and actually seemed to
       | get fired by the publisher, because another technical editor
       | replaced him midway through), claimed to be an author of the book
       | on Stack Overflow and his own web page/resume. Truly bizarre
       | because only my name was on the cover.
        
       | VectorLock wrote:
       | So this guy just got found out, got kicked out of school, changed
       | his social media profiles and then just... evaporated? Just
       | running around out there doing whatever with another guy's
       | tattoos?
        
         | niels_bom wrote:
         | I wouldn't be surprised if he'd just started copying someone
         | else.
        
           | spfzero wrote:
           | Or even if this wasn't the only guy he was copying at the
           | same time.
        
       | wunderflix wrote:
       | What a crazy story. Reminds me of the movie "Following" by
       | Christopher Nolan. Similarly, a weird person who is stalking
       | people. Worth a watch...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | oh_sigh wrote:
       | Is there any verification of this story? The way it ends with "As
       | told to Amy Sedghi" makes me think this is some spoken word story
       | rather than some journalistic recounting of events.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ectopod wrote:
         | It just means that Amy Sedghi interviewed him, and then wrote
         | it from a first person pov. It's not unusual.
        
           | uniqueid wrote:
           | The claim is unusual. My guess is this article (or the
           | alleged events it describes) is part of someone's art project
           | or experiment.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | Well, the person telling a story is a real person and it's
             | been printed in not only the Guardian but the BBC and I
             | assume elsewhere. These are news organizations that do at
             | least a modicum of fact-checking.
        
               | uniqueid wrote:
               | These are news organizations that do at least a
               | modicum of fact-checking.
               | 
               | Depending on the situation, it could be impossible for a
               | fact-checker to prove that the two people in the story
               | had an agreement and a prior relationship. Not to
               | mention, it's a novelty item in the 'Lifestyle' section,
               | not a report on an arms accord or something.
        
               | agency wrote:
               | And the guy is clearly a real scholar: https://scholar.go
               | ogle.com/citations?user=0g9Hm1cAAAAJ&hl=en...
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | uniqueid wrote:
               | I noticed that. It's why afaic the most plausible
               | explanation -- considering the incredible claims -- is
               | that this is part of some experiment that has socially
               | redeeming value.
        
           | ketamine__ wrote:
           | Why aren't there any pictures of this imposter? Surely
           | respecting his privacy isn't warranted since he's public with
           | his imposter persona.
           | 
           | Not surprised I'm getting downvoted by people that support
           | abusers.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | dorkwood wrote:
         | Malcolm X's autobiography is "as told to Alex Haley". I believe
         | it's a common phrase used when an article is written by a
         | journalist, but from the first-person perspective of the
         | interviewee.
        
           | mkl wrote:
           | Yes. Some other well-known ones are Richard Feynman's _Surely
           | you 're joking Mr. Feynman_ and _What do you care what other
           | people think?_ , which are "as told to Ralph Leighton".
        
           | yesenadam wrote:
           | That's maybe not the most comforting example - Alex Haley's
           | _Roots_ was both convicted of plagiarism _and_ seemed to be
           | very amateurishly researched, to put it mildly. At least it
           | was called  "fiction", although it was sold in non-fiction
           | sections. And the central claim was presented as if true; "he
           | claimed to have traced his family lineage back to Kunta
           | Kinte, an African taken from the village of Juffure in what
           | is now The Gambia". The wikipedia page is fascinating, e.g.
           | 
           | "Donald R. Wright, a historian of the West African slave
           | trade, found that elders and griots in The Gambia could not
           | provide detailed information on people living before the
           | mid-19th century, but everyone had heard of Kunta Kinte.
           | Haley had told his story to so many people, and his version
           | of his family history had been assimilated into the oral
           | traditions of The Gambia. Haley had created a case of
           | circular reporting, in which people repeated his words back
           | to him."
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roots:_The_Saga_of_an_American.
           | ..
        
       | Jamie9912 wrote:
       | I totally thought this was just a bizarre way of explaining how
       | he overcame imposter syndrome
        
       | matt-attack wrote:
       | What an incredibly odd story. I wonder if the man suffered from
       | mental illness.
        
         | jmercouris wrote:
         | I am very certain he did, whether we have a name for it or not.
        
           | cbanek wrote:
           | While you're probably right, I always find it oddly weird
           | sometimes how logical these things can be. Like copying
           | tattoos and mannerisms. On one hand, it doesn't make sense to
           | pretend to be someone else, but if you look past that, the
           | steps were frighteningly logical. And this is where I think
           | it dovetails into other scams. I'm not sure if the scammer is
           | above it, a part of it, or unaware of it sometimes, but what
           | they present and what you see isn't really the whole story.
        
             | jshmrsn wrote:
             | Actually, I'm confused by the logic of that. If you were
             | plagiarizing someone, wouldn't you want to be look
             | different from the original author so you don't remind
             | people of them and get caught? His hand tattoos meant that
             | anyone who know the original author and encountered the
             | copycat would immediately be suspicious even if they
             | weren't familiar with the subject matter.
        
           | ironmagma wrote:
           | But the only definition we have for mental illness is whether
           | your situation falls under some category that we have a name
           | for. It's a slippery (and fuzzy) enough slope having
           | designations for illnesses that encompass a huge portion of
           | the human condition (see Rosenhan). Much worse if we also
           | include things that don't have entries in the DSM. It would
           | be trivial enough to say that anyone you have even mild
           | distaste for has a mental illness.
        
             | lazyasciiart wrote:
             | Even DSM-IV had "otherwise unspecified mental disorder" as
             | a diagnosis. https://dsm.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/a
             | ppi.books.9780...
        
             | mannykannot wrote:
             | We don't have to go down that slippery slope. It is not
             | plausible that the specific issue here is something that
             | encompasses a huge portion of the human condition.
             | Alternatively, if it is a manifestation of something that
             | is, but at a much lower level than with this individual,
             | there are prominent things in the DSM for which this is
             | also the case.
        
             | Sebb767 wrote:
             | > But the only definition we have for mental illness is
             | whether your situation falls under some category that we
             | have a name for.
             | 
             | The one I heard was a variation of "does the person suffer
             | due to the condition or cause harm to other people". That
             | was a side course in university. I actually like that one a
             | lot, since there's really not a clear line between an
             | illness and just being different.
        
               | getlawgdon wrote:
               | That doesn't make sense. Define harm. Carelessness can
               | cause injury and isn't mental illness, etc.
        
               | ironmagma wrote:
               | It also doesn't make a meaningful distinction from non-
               | mental illness though, like chronic pain or even poverty.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | turingexam wrote:
       | I had a sort of similar incident happen with the youtuber Siraj
       | Raval who was ripping off people's original projects (without
       | attribution) and making videos about them -- and spun a career
       | out of it.
       | 
       | It took many attempts to get him to attribute my project (in
       | accordance with its license) although he was caught repeating
       | this type of behavior later on.
        
       | autophagian wrote:
       | For the curious: this emerged as a twitter thread back in Jan
       | https://twitter.com/mattlodder/status/1350192856154198016 . In
       | it, Dr. Lodder posts a comparison between his tattoos and his
       | imposters, as well as a talk his imposter gave based on his work,
       | while dressed as him. Creepy.
        
         | nchelluri wrote:
         | Interesting how the test score is 80% in the twitter thread and
         | 95% in the article.
        
           | Gimpei wrote:
           | Having done tertiary coursework in both the UK and the US, I
           | can tell you that it's much much much more difficult to get
           | an 80 in the UK than a 95 in the US. Even a 70 is hard. A 70
           | is like an A in the US thirty years ago.
        
           | Sebb767 wrote:
           | I thought the same thing. Through the twitter thread
           | references a magazine article, while the original article on
           | talks about "something [he] wrote", so they _might_ be
           | different pieces.
           | 
           | EDIT: Or the imposter gave the interview and added a mark up
           | ;)
        
           | ajcp wrote:
           | Given he's a UK prof if he was told the paper was given an
           | 'A' in the UK that can be anywhere from 70-100, while in the
           | US it is 90-100. He might have initially split the
           | difference, and then corrected it/was corrected for the
           | article.
        
             | worker767424 wrote:
             | > in the US it is 90-100
             | 
             | In a science or engineering class, it might be everything
             | above 40%.
        
               | cammikebrown wrote:
               | I really did not enjoy getting 40% on every test in math
               | and physics and receiving a B. I do not feel like I
               | learned the material that well. My very first freshman
               | mechanics midterm grade, a 67, was an A+, and gave me a
               | false sense of adequacy. Maybe they could figure out how
               | to teach better?
        
               | jrumbut wrote:
               | I love tests like that, so long as there are some easy
               | enough problems so you don't risk not knowing where to
               | start.
               | 
               | It shows you what the next level is, reminds you that
               | there's more depth to the subject than you can master in
               | 12 weeks.
               | 
               | As long as you get the letter grade you deserve in the
               | end, why not have an interesting challenge along the way?
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | You aren't supposed to learn everything in one semester.
               | You are supposed to make adequate progress, and the tests
               | are broad enough to catch as much as possible of what
               | you've learned.
        
               | Aeolun wrote:
               | That sounds silly. Give me a test that I can actually
               | reasonably learn the material for any day.
        
               | samatman wrote:
               | It's perfectly human to want to pass with a perfect
               | score, but this undermines the purpose of a test.
               | 
               | A test which has a significant fraction of scores at the
               | right side of the distribution has saturated the range:
               | there are differences in comprehension and mastery
               | between one 100% and another, which aren't being measured
               | by the test.
               | 
               | The platonic form of a perfect test would have exactly
               | one student per class who got every question correct, but
               | that's impossible to reach except by luck. So a teacher
               | is stuck between writing a test which is too difficult
               | for everyone, and one which is too easy for a substantial
               | fraction of the class. They should pick the first over
               | the second.
               | 
               | While that can feel frustrating (I know, I've been
               | there!) it's likely that you _in fact_ learned the
               | material better than you would have in a class where your
               | level of mastery allowed you to score perfectly for an A+
               | and in the mid 80s for a B.
        
               | kortilla wrote:
               | > So a teacher is stuck between writing a test which is
               | too difficult for everyone, and one which is too easy for
               | a substantial fraction of the class.
               | 
               | No, the teacher is not stuck here. It is rarely the
               | purpose of an academic test to plot students on a wide
               | distribution. That's just something fun for teachers to
               | do to look for exceptional students.
               | 
               | If the purpose of a test is to determine if an individual
               | student passes some bar of understanding, then there is
               | absolutely no reason to make it extremely difficult and
               | then give A's to those who got >50% correct.
        
               | bostik wrote:
               | When I held the information security basics course back
               | in the university, I always made sure the grading scale
               | was included on the exam sheet. 55% to pass, 95% for top
               | grade.
               | 
               | Because of its wide applicability to business
               | environments overall, the course was mandatory for some
               | non-CS students. And boy, they _hated_ it.
        
               | spfzero wrote:
               | Boy it sure wasn't when I was an undergrad EE.
        
               | felipemnoa wrote:
               | don't forget about the curve
        
               | joejerryronnie wrote:
               | In a high priced private US university, you may get an A
               | just for showing up.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | Those private US universities are actually free. Their
               | endowments are large enough they can provide 100% tuition
               | aid if you can't afford them. The problem is getting in.
        
               | ajcp wrote:
               | I assure you neither "high priced" nor "private" are
               | necessary for this. In fact, those institutions have more
               | to lose for doing so than a "low price public US
               | university"
        
         | rincebrain wrote:
         | I was very confused when I clicked this article, as I
         | recognized a lot of the details - then looking in my browser
         | history, this also turned up as a story on Vice in February
         | [1], where I had read it.
         | 
         | [1] - https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dp4gx/professor-
         | catfished-b...
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | Classic article about a picture without showing the picture.
        
         | kergonath wrote:
         | That's some dedication. And some nerve. I wonder why he'd try
         | that in academia; there are probably other jobs in which his
         | skills would be more useful.
        
           | vletal wrote:
           | Nice burn.
           | 
           | Joking aside, I agree. There is so many things you could
           | achieve while successfully impersonating someone. Seems like
           | the best you can do in academia is to ruin someone's career.
           | In this case it seemed fortunately "harmless" though.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Academia is one where the chickens won't come home to roost
             | - as in you won't actually be called to DO what you're
             | impostering to be able to do.
             | 
             | Fake being a surgeon and they'll assign you to surgery,
             | etc.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | cycomanic wrote:
               | Actually I say it's the other way around. In academia
               | you're most likely to get caught. The communities are
               | just to small for things to get unnoticed. You have many
               | people reading everything related to the field, so people
               | are likely to notice at some point. I'd say if the
               | imposter would have gone for a PhD it would have come out
               | at the latest.
               | 
               | Judging by some of the revelations in other business it
               | seems not exceptional for people to add things to their
               | cv's they've never done. And it's much less likely to
               | ever come out, because people are less likely to check
               | (and it might also be more difficult to check)
        
               | green_space wrote:
               | Psychiatry is a field where you can get away it. Zholia
               | Alemi successfully masqueraded as a qualified
               | psychiatrist for 23 years
               | https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/17230748.doctor-faked-
               | wil...
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | You can be a fake academic and build a career on
               | plagiarism. However, stealing someone's identity is
               | dangerous, as academic fields tend to be quite small
               | social networks, and someone is bound to notice. It's
               | also much more difficult to wiggle out of identity theft
               | lawsuits than universities' ethics rules.
        
               | d0mine wrote:
               | It tells us something about psychiatry as a field.
               | Imagine faking being a programmer or a physicist for 20
               | years: a trivial Fizz Buzz-like test would reveal the
               | truth for the former, and the failure to reproduce
               | research results--for the latter.
        
               | sillysaurusx wrote:
               | At massive (non-FAANG) companies, it's more common than
               | you might think. Surprisingly.
        
               | chki wrote:
               | Gert Postel (a German mailman) also managed to be a fake
               | psychiatrist for 17 years; it's a very unsettling story
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert_Postel
               | https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert_Postel
        
               | cycomanic wrote:
               | There have been several cases of people posing as doctors
               | without any qualifications ("catch me if you can" is a
               | movie about a famous case for example).
        
               | chris_f wrote:
               | This is an interesting talk by Frank Abagnale (the real
               | life person the story was based on) at Google.
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsMydMDi3rI
        
               | redler wrote:
               | "Is anyone here a marine biologist?!"
        
               | TimTheTinker wrote:
               | Literary criticism in particular.
               | 
               | Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/451/
        
               | foobiekr wrote:
               | You should listen to the "dr death" podcast [1]. Season
               | one was actually terrifying and is, in fact, what happens
               | when an imposter pretends to be a surgeon.
               | 
               | [1] https://wondery.com/shows/dr-death/
        
           | psychiatrist24 wrote:
           | Not sure - where can you get by with submitting another
           | person's work?
        
             | passenger wrote:
             | Software Development?
        
               | psychiatrist24 wrote:
               | But if the client has a specific requirement, nobody else
               | will have coded the same thing.
               | 
               | Maybe in some cases you can link together some open
               | source projects and pretend you did a lot of work.
        
           | volume wrote:
           | maybe it's was his form or version of performance art, or
           | simply an experiment that took on a life of it's own? I
           | wonder if that's what Die Antwoord is about.
        
         | brandonmenc wrote:
         | > a comparison between his tattoos and his imposters
         | 
         | There is nothing very special or original about his tattoos.
         | Just about everyone has tattoos that look like this nowadays.
         | Anyone can walk in and select these out of a flash book.
         | 
         | This is like complaining that someone is wearing the same
         | t-shirt.
         | 
         | Yes, I realize the imposter is mimicking other aspects of his
         | personality, but I see a dozen copies of this guy walking
         | around every day.
        
           | anoncake wrote:
           | Where do you live that just about everyone has a hand tattoo
           | with some sort of rose and the word "more" on the knuckles?
        
             | brandonmenc wrote:
             | Any major city? These are trends. It's like asking where do
             | you live where just about everyone is wearing a Nike shirt.
             | 
             | Do an image search for "more knuckle tattoo" and "hand rose
             | tattoo" you'll see tons.
        
             | soylentgraham wrote:
             | Moredore
        
           | zck wrote:
           | The tattoos weren't a coincidence. The imposter was
           | specifically impersonating him. The imposter went so far as
           | to get the _same exact words_ tattooed on both hands.
           | 
           | The dedication to impersonating Dr. Lodder is why it's
           | concerning. The imposter wasn't just submitting Lodder's work
           | as his own; he _permanently altered his body_ to appear more
           | like Lodder.
        
             | luckylion wrote:
             | > The imposter wasn't just submitting Lodder's work as his
             | own; he _permanently altered his body_ to appear more like
             | Lodder.
             | 
             | That might be a coincidence though. He didn't submit _only_
             | Lodder 's work & bio, but also that of others in tattoo
             | studies.
             | 
             | From the article: We discovered he'd also taken magazine
             | articles I'd written and added footnotes to them, stolen
             | catalogue essays I'd authored, and taken other people's
             | work from old books and paraphrased it.
             | 
             | He might steal work from everyone but because Hipsters All
             | Look The Same, Matt Lodder feels like that guy is copying
             | his personality when they've just read the same magazines
             | and books and then selected the same tattoos out of the
             | catalogue.
        
           | glangdale wrote:
           | I'm enjoying the comments from people who have read a couple
           | of comments here on HN and looked at the pictures in the
           | original article and come to hold forth on how "it's probably
           | just a coincidence".
           | 
           | They're apparently so excited that they can slag off an
           | academic for having tattoos that are, in their minds, Not All
           | That, that they are excusing themselves from the difficult
           | work of reading TFA.
           | 
           | "Yes, I realize the imposter is mimicking other aspects of
           | his personality"
           | 
           | ... like, umm, copying vast tracts of his academic work?
        
             | brandonmenc wrote:
             | I read the article. I agree that there is a creepy imposter
             | after this guy.
             | 
             | I was only commenting on his tattoos, which are unoriginal
             | and a dime a dozen. The imposter getting those same tattoos
             | is - in this day and age - equivalent to having an
             | identical wardrobe.
             | 
             | Yes, in addition to the actually bizarre and creepy copying
             | of the academic work.
        
       | Ansil849 wrote:
       | I think the positive here is that more people got to learn about
       | the person's work. Sure he didn't get credited, but the important
       | thing should be his research, not himself.
       | 
       | And the tattoos I can't even begin to understand what the issue
       | is. Walking down a busy street, I can't begin to count how many
       | mimicked tattoos I see.
        
         | vletal wrote:
         | Like maybe if it was cited properly...
        
       | kebman wrote:
       | Man, this is just sad...
        
       | kfoley wrote:
       | Reminds me of something I experienced on HN and Reddit, though my
       | case was a far less significant level.
       | 
       | I posted a comment on HN in response to some article about Emacs.
       | Later that day I saw someone had copied my comment word for word
       | in reply to the same article on Reddit.
       | 
       | I still have no idea why someone would do that. I thought at
       | first it was some kind of karma farming operation but the post
       | history of the Reddit user didn't really fit that profile.
       | Plus,it seems like r/emacs would be a really poor choice for
       | that.
       | 
       | I've always been curious to know why someone would do something
       | like this. It's interesting to read about it happening on a way
       | larger scale.
        
         | easton wrote:
         | I once found a link on reddit that I had posted on HN, and in
         | it, several people had word for word copied comments from the
         | HN thread without attribution. I presumed it was karma farming
         | too, since they had gotten a lot of upvotes but not a lot of
         | responses. reddit's anti-evil team didn't though, so I guess it
         | was just people that wanted to "retweet".
        
         | jancsika wrote:
         | > I still have no idea why someone would do that.
         | 
         | It's a fundamental way to learn.
         | 
         | E.g., suppose people tell me I'm a real funny person. Let me
         | test that.
         | 
         | 1. I remember a joke from a professional funny person widely
         | considered to be one of the best.
         | 
         | 2. I tell that joke to the people who told me I'm a real funny
         | person.
         | 
         | 3. I measure the laughter I get.
         | 
         | If the laughter is different-- e.g., if the people tell me this
         | is by far the funniest thing I've ever said, then I know I've
         | got a lot more to learn about jokes. On the other hand, if it's
         | the same amount of laughter I usually get, perhaps I've got a
         | real talent here.
         | 
         | Of course, it _could_ be these are just close friends and they
         | are primed to think anything I say is funny. Nevertheless, just
         | the act of telling that joke as if it were my own gives me the
         | experience of the timing and emphasis of that comic. It 's a
         | gain of knowledge.
         | 
         | That process is an order of magnitude faster on Reddit with
         | control-v. Who know, maybe it even makes that person a bit more
         | cynical about "karma" points. If so, they've at least become a
         | less naive person.
        
           | mannykannot wrote:
           | Copying a post is completely unlike this. There is nothing in
           | doing so that compares to improving one's delivery of a joke.
        
           | nchelluri wrote:
           | I understand what you are saying about copying someone to
           | learn. I'm just not sure I agree it applies to digital media
           | or bits especially in the exact same context (in response to
           | the same article).
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | (slightly off-topic)
           | 
           | When I was young, all my jokes were from somewhere else (101
           | funny jokes!) and people thought they were funny. My problem
           | was remembering them.
           | 
           | Nowadays everybody has seen all the good ones ("Bring me my
           | brown pants!")
           | 
           | So now the problem with telling jokes from a "professional
           | funny person" is that if you've heard it before, chances are
           | others have too and you're getting polite laughter.
        
           | imagica wrote:
           | Retelling helps learning a lot more than copying verbatim.
        
         | malwarebytess wrote:
         | I post other people's answers that I've read, but it's always
         | with attribution or at least with "copied from x". I imagine if
         | someone did the same with your post but didn't provide
         | attribution it was out of pure laziness. When I post on /g/, an
         | anonymous message board, I often copy paste other answers or
         | code without attribution since it's easier and people don't
         | usually care where it came from, and no one will care whether I
         | wrote it or not. I imagine I'm not alone in this.
        
         | hellbannedguy wrote:
         | I bet it was Reddit internal bots.
         | 
         | I feel that company scrapes sites continuity, trying to elevate
         | their discussions--- which are basically a mad three word race
         | to the fart joke.
        
         | mannykannot wrote:
         | Maybe they think it's the smart thing to do - in fact, maybe
         | they have a degree in doing it!
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | There was a Reddit bot a few years ago (aptly named
         | 'trappedinreddit') that would automatically post the previous
         | top comment on reposts. Predictably, those comments would get
         | upvoted again, and trappedinreddit would end up with the top
         | comment on most posts. It lasted a few months before the bot
         | was outed and it went away.
        
           | worker767424 wrote:
           | Sweet, sweet karma. And then you go sell the account.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | okamiueru wrote:
             | Interesting. Do you know what the marked value is for
             | karma? Is the value tied to something practical, e.g.
             | easier to pass spam filters with an account?
        
               | numpad0 wrote:
               | I assume the actual value would be in history of an
               | account as a whole, and karma is a simplified
               | explanation.
               | 
               | There's no easy way to identify comments on the Internet
               | as stolen, so with enough dedication it'll be possible to
               | create a system that generate profiles with years worth
               | of life by just mishmashing elements. That will help bots
               | pass spam filter developer on top of existing filter
               | itself.
        
               | StellarTabi wrote:
               | Karma? It doesn't get more valuable after you have enough
               | to get you past the "you didn't register your account
               | yesterday" type automod filters. Anyone buying accounts
               | for "huge karma" didn't fully research how Reddit works.
               | If you have low karma in one specific sub (because you
               | are trolling or spamming), no amount of shameless repost
               | karma in r/funny will protect from the "you are posting
               | too frequently" message you'll only get in the sub you
               | are getting downvoted in.
               | 
               | Accounts that will likely get big offers will have a
               | large number of followers, mod large subreddits or
               | targeted subreddits.
               | 
               | Having an active account before the 2016 Russia thing is
               | also worth something. When you want to spread
               | misinformation or do shill marketing, it helps a lot to
               | see any of the following when checking a user's Reddit
               | profile:
               | 
               | - the user didn't register a month ago.
               | 
               | - the user didn't register just to talk exclusively on
               | this subject/product.
               | 
               | - the user registered before Russia's IRA became active
               | on Reddit.
               | 
               | - the user didn't stop exclusively participating in porn
               | or sports subreddits just to make this comment.
               | 
               | - the user is writing enough quality comments that they
               | don't feel compelled to delete most, if not all, of them.
               | 
               | - the user is not making contradictory claims (there is a
               | famous example of someone claiming to be a cis woman in
               | computers who had clearly cis male comments in several
               | cis male oriented subreddits, one of them called
               | something like "semen rentension". They were called out.
               | 
               | - the user posts in subreddits that are on good terms
               | with the subreddit we found their suspicious comment in.
               | 
               | Source: I'm a Reddit moderator and work at a marketing
               | startup.
        
               | livre wrote:
               | Many subreddits automatically delete posts or comments
               | from users with low karma. Also people trust users with
               | older accounts and a good amount of karma more than new
               | users or people with low karma.
        
               | cortesoft wrote:
               | Do many people on Reddit actually check an account
               | history before deciding whether to upvote or downvote
               | something?
        
               | livre wrote:
               | The power users do, moderators do, those obsessed with
               | reposters and bots too but I don't think the majority
               | cares enough to check that. Most just follow the initial
               | votes, so if the users who were early decided it was
               | worth upvoting the rest of the people will generally just
               | follow along. I think that's why selling votes is also
               | profitable, you can get your post to the frontpage if it
               | is good enough and you bought a few hundred early
               | upvotes.
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | Keep in mind this is either a subreddit or Automoderator
               | setting.
               | 
               | Subs can limit _posts_ to users with some minimal karma
               | or age. Typically this still permits _comment_ , though
               | harvesting comment karma is then incentivised.
               | 
               | Automoderator, a rule-driven automated moderation tool,
               | can actively interact with posts and comments based on
               | various criteria, including automatically holding or
               | removing posts or comments, messaging submitters, and
               | other actions. This is heavily used on highly-active
               | subs, and pretty well documented.
        
         | baud147258 wrote:
         | I remember someone telling how his Steam review was copied
         | verbatim... Maybe it was for the 'awards' users can get on
         | their reviews?
        
         | headmelted wrote:
         | Others have said bots, I'd lean more towards someone thought it
         | sounded like a clever reply, went to reddit where the same
         | conversation was taking place and posted it in the thread in
         | hopes of scoring some cheap karma.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | I think there are some direct ways to profit (like
         | "recommending" items from amazon that are from top-sales
         | statistics)
         | 
         | I wonder at all the indirect ways though. Maybe the account is
         | enhanced to a reasonable reputation and is "banked" for later.
         | Maybe there are levels of reputation that unlock abilities
         | either on or off the site.
         | 
         | Or maybe some people are addicted to those silly internet
         | points.
         | 
         | I'm surprised HN has a visible "score". I remember other sites
         | would cap it at some value, basically reputation: excellent.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | SubiculumCode wrote:
         | I mean its plagiarism, but motivation was probably something
         | like: I liked this comment i read on HN. It answers a question
         | that is being discussed in reddit. I could attribute it, or
         | just copy and paste...or so goes the modervn internet share
        
         | brendoelfrendo wrote:
         | It's almost always bot accounts. Reddit is decent at catching
         | bots so the botters copy legitimate comments, build a post
         | history, and then switch to scamming or spamming after the
         | account has some credibility.
        
           | FDSGSG wrote:
           | >Reddit is decent at catching bots
           | 
           | I don't think you've tried to bot reddit.
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | >Reddit is decent at catching bots
           | 
           | I don't know about that so much. I'm seeing a lot more
           | straight up spam on reddit that looks easy to spot, but I
           | think reddit gave up or something...
        
             | brendoelfrendo wrote:
             | Totally possible. Maybe enough people figured out how to
             | game their detection so they gave up, or if it was so
             | gameable in the first place it was never as good as I'm
             | remembering.
        
         | DoubleGlazing wrote:
         | Happened to a friend of mine. He'd posted an article on a
         | website devoted to a specific form of fluid dynamics
         | discussion. This was a site with less than 50 active users.
         | 
         | Someone submitted the article (edited to sound more academic)
         | to a journal - and with extra authors added. The journal almost
         | published it, but they didn't because at the last minute one of
         | their reviewers felt they recognized the content as having been
         | published before.
         | 
         | I think the moral of the story is that some people are up to no
         | good and we'll never understand why.
        
           | aero-glide2 wrote:
           | >specific form of fluid dynamics discussion I've been
           | searching for niche forums such as this, if you don't mind,
           | which forum was that?
        
           | bbarnett wrote:
           | Could be for a US H1-B VISA. Skilled category counts things
           | like published works...
        
           | whatshisface wrote:
           | Reminds me of something I experienced on HN and Reddit,
           | though my case was a far less significant level. There was a
           | Reddit bot a few years ago (aptly named 'trappedinreddit')
           | that would automatically post the previous top comment on
           | reposts. I bet it was Reddit internal bots. That process is
           | an order of magnitude faster on Reddit than control-v.
        
             | tinus_hn wrote:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26605151
             | 
             | Is this some bizarre coincidence?
        
               | Kpourdeilami wrote:
               | OP is just trying to be funny but it seems like it
               | confused a lot of people
        
             | niels_bom wrote:
             | Is this a meta-joke? 4h ago somebody posted your exact
             | first sentence. :-/
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26604648
        
               | boogies wrote:
               | (and second, third, and almost exact fourth)
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26605151
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26606165
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26605093
        
             | u801e wrote:
             | Are you making an attempt at humor or are you just copying
             | and pasting parts of comments to make your own comment?
        
               | AussieWog93 wrote:
               | Given the context, it's clearly a joke. Pretty clever and
               | funny too, IMO.
        
             | sjfidsfkds wrote:
             | > I bet it was Reddit internal bots.
             | 
             | This is a compelling idea, but I think they wouldn't be so
             | obvious about it.
        
         | luckylion wrote:
         | Did it make sense in the thread on reddit?
         | 
         | There are a couple of bots (I hope) on Stack Overflow that re-
         | post answers to other questions that are vaguely related based
         | on keywords or tags. They usually didn't make sense in the
         | question context, but were upvoted by people for some reason.
        
           | pmiller2 wrote:
           | Maybe they're upvoted by other bots as well?
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Could it be an attempt to at legitimacy to fake accounts so
         | they seem less fake on cursory glances? Using these accounts to
         | support that the profile they are really trying to use is not
         | fake?
        
           | sokoloff wrote:
           | That seems like so much more pointless effort (to find a good
           | comment about a topic, find the right subreddit, and post it)
           | as compared to actually just wasting time on Reddit on some
           | topic that you're actually interested in.
        
           | nerdponx wrote:
           | This is always an issue on Reddit.
        
         | gverrilla wrote:
         | they agreed with every word you said?
        
         | personlurking wrote:
         | I used to have a niche blog that was an off-shoot of a more
         | popular blog I did within the same general area of knowledge. I
         | would put in many, many hours doing deep dives into foreign
         | historical archives and translating what I found into English
         | for my niche blog.
         | 
         | I would also read any MSM news in English that came out about
         | the general topic. I would often find pieces of my research
         | inserted into these articles, by different outlets and
         | different authors. Never any credit given. Sometimes the entire
         | article was centered around something I'd uncovered, and
         | published 4-5 days after posting it in my blog.
        
       | technick wrote:
       | It's not illegal to kill yourself.
        
       | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
       | Reminds me of something I experienced on HN and Reddit, though my
       | case was a far less significant level. I posted a comment on HN
       | in response to some article about Emacs. Later that day I saw
       | someone had copied my comment word for word in reply to the same
       | article on Reddit. I still have no idea why someone would do
       | that. I thought at first it was some kind of karma farming
       | operation but the post history of the Reddit user didn't really
       | fit that profile. Plus,it seems like r/emacs would be a really
       | poor choice for that. I've always been curious to know why
       | someone would do something like this. It's interesting to read
       | about it happening on a way larger scale.
        
         | xenonite wrote:
         | Well: Reminds me of something I experienced on HN and Reddit,
         | though my case was a far less significant level. I posted a
         | comment on HN in response to some article about Emacs. Later
         | that day I saw someone had copied my comment word for word in
         | reply to the same article on Reddit. I still have no idea why
         | someone would do that. I thought at first it was some kind of
         | karma farming operation but the post history of the Reddit user
         | didn't really fit that profile. Plus,it seems like r/emacs
         | would be a really poor choice for that. I've always been
         | curious to know why someone would do something like this. It's
         | interesting to read about it happening on a way larger scale.
        
           | mahalol wrote:
           | Well, this is definitely the kind of content I wouldn't be
           | surprised to read on reddit, but a bit disappointing to see
           | it on HN.
        
             | kvirani wrote:
             | I just did the same thing (out of laziness of course) and
             | then saw this great point. Deleted mine.
        
           | UShouldBWorking wrote:
           | This is definitely the kind of content I wouldn't be
           | surprised to read on reddit, but a bit disappointing to see
           | it on HN
        
       | k33n wrote:
       | Obviously made up.
        
         | getlawgdon wrote:
         | I find this certainty of rejection as disturbing as the
         | certainty of immediate belief, only it's worse since it
         | includes no reasoning.
        
         | guenthert wrote:
         | I wouldn't say obviously made up, but the story sure is
         | incredible.
        
         | mycologos wrote:
         | What makes you say that?
        
       | fnord77 wrote:
       | overactive mirroring neurons? j/k, I'm sure this pathology is
       | very complex.
        
       | rin72ka wrote:
       | second that
        
       | foobar33333 wrote:
       | Very sus
        
       | WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
       | Bro, I heard of plagiarism of a paper but not like a whole
       | person.
        
       | csense wrote:
       | Getting the same tattoos as your target?
       | 
       | That's one dedicated identity thief.
        
         | pizzapill wrote:
         | From the twitter link posted here it seems that "their" field
         | of study is tattoos. The video of the talk of the impostor has
         | a slide in the background with Victorian era tattoos. Seems
         | like they both take them very seriously.
        
         | imagica wrote:
         | But a sad thing overall, imagine he's stuck with this identity
         | now but it no longer bears fruits for him. I assume this person
         | didn't have much of an identity in the first place..
        
       | chrisseaton wrote:
       | > Some of the work should have been spotted by plagiarism
       | checkers
       | 
       | I've been in postgraduate academia and industry, and been
       | involved in multiple conferences at different levels. I'm not
       | aware of anyone ever running a plagiarism detector on any
       | submitted work at all. Do other people do this? Should the people
       | I work with have been doing it?
        
         | jonnat wrote:
         | My daughter is in 5th grade, attending school virtually due to
         | the pandemic, and she has all her submitted assignments
         | automatically verified by plagiarism checkers. In fact, she's
         | encouraged to use online plagiarism checkers herself before
         | submission to avoid false positives.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | It's been a minute since I was in 5th grade. I'm trying to
           | remember what kind of assignments I would have had where I
           | could have plagiarized something that would not have been
           | immediately obvious to the teacher.
        
             | sgerenser wrote:
             | Only thing I could think of is passing off big brother's
             | book report as my own. Would a plagiarism detector to work
             | in that situation? Does every report and essay a child
             | writes get added to the database for future works to be
             | checked against?
        
             | tkgally wrote:
             | My mother was a fourth- and fifth-grade teacher in
             | California fifty years ago. She would sometimes have her
             | students write stories, and once one girl turned in a
             | delightful little story that stood out from the others. My
             | mother thought she showed real talent and praised her to
             | the skies, showed the story to other teachers, brought it
             | home and showed it to our family, etc. A year or two later,
             | my mother happened across exactly the same story in a
             | children's book in the library. It was clear that the girl
             | had just copied her story out of the book. My mother was
             | really sad about the whole thing for quite a while.
        
             | analog31 wrote:
             | Of course it would have been unheard of when I was in 5th
             | grade because our assignments weren't even computer
             | readable. In my day, we were expected to copy articles from
             | the World Book Encyclopedia, and they were graded on
             | neatness.
             | 
             | But my kids both recently graduated from high school. There
             | is a tendency for teachers of each grade to prepare kids
             | for subsequent grades. I can imagine hearing: "They will
             | have to do this in sixth grade, so we're preparing them
             | now" without questioning why it's done in any grade. This
             | makes the curriculum seem more "advanced."
             | 
             | I actually don't think my kids had to use turnitin. At
             | least, I never heard about it. A bigger concern is writing
             | stuff that might be reviewed by employers, law enforcement,
             | and so forth, or subjected to some kind of automated
             | analysis in the future. They've heard about the social
             | credit score. They're all familiar with the lesson: "Don't
             | write anything that you would not want to see on the front
             | page of the newspaper."
             | 
             | I'm lucky that anything I ever wrote in school is now in
             | the bit bucket.
        
           | Veen wrote:
           | My partner finds it frustrating that she has to edit out
           | "false positives" even when she knows damn well she hasn't
           | plagiarised.
        
             | oasisbob wrote:
             | How obnoxious. I would hate that too, and would be tempted
             | to refuse. Is that a common thing to do these days? With
             | the seriousness of academic dishonesty charges, I don't see
             | why students would put up with this.
             | 
             | If someone wants to bring meritless flimsy accusations, I
             | wouldn't want to help them do their homework in running
             | down all the accidental matches found by their commercial
             | provider, let alone rewrite my work in the process.
        
               | unishark wrote:
               | They aren't accusations just match scores. The scores are
               | pretty meaningless unless there's a really good match.
               | Obviously one shouldn't use that alone to determine
               | guilt. Charges are decided by professors and committees,
               | not turnitin. Yes some students might be concerned about
               | the partial matches to the point of anxiety, but the
               | solution is to simply assuage those fears. Because
               | unfortunately, too many others habitually cheat with a
               | misguided confidence that they can get away with it. Not
               | to mention a completely warped sense of the risk versus
               | reward for what they are doing. Making them go through
               | turnitin is a way to dissuade doing that. Letting them
               | see the scores before they submit the assignment is also
               | a nicer way to push back. As opposed to having to hand
               | out F's to get the point across.
        
               | Veen wrote:
               | > the solution is to simply assuage those fears
               | 
               | The parent commenter's experience suggests that teachers
               | are not doing that; instead, they're encouraging people
               | to rewrite non-plagiarised work so that it doesn't
               | trigger partial matches.
               | 
               | That is my experience too: teachers don't want the hassle
               | of figuring out what a false positive really means.
        
             | ksaj wrote:
             | Editors have to do that already, so if she doesn't have an
             | editor, it probably is her job.
             | 
             | In High School, I did a (very) short co-op copyrighting for
             | a radio station. At the time I thought it was pretty
             | ridiculous that I had to basically reword everything to
             | mean the same thing, but differently. As a grown-up and
             | seeing the same stories in different papers struck me as
             | ultra-lazy, and then I realized why all that copyrighting
             | had to be done.
        
               | smogcutter wrote:
               | "Copywriting", just fyi in case it's one of those "word I
               | hear but rarely see written" things and not autocorrect.
        
         | anamexis wrote:
         | I had an run-in with a plagiarism checker in undergrad (USA,
         | 2008). A professor ran a research paper I had submitted through
         | a plagiarism checker and it came back a 100% match. (I had
         | researched and written the paper myself.) It led to a very
         | awkward meeting which started with him saying "I think we both
         | know why you're here" and me having no idea why I was there.
         | 
         | Luckily it ended with him resubmitting the paper to the checker
         | and it coming back clean. (I got an A.)
        
           | murderfs wrote:
           | > It led to a very awkward meeting which started with him
           | saying "I think we both know why you're here" and me having
           | no idea why I was there.
           | 
           | I had this happen once, except it was because someone else in
           | one of his other classes had the same name as me.
        
           | TwoBit wrote:
           | What was the cause of the false positive?
        
             | mannykannot wrote:
             | The professor submitted one of his own papers by mistake?
        
             | anamexis wrote:
             | I can only theorize. Perhaps due to some error, the web
             | upload submitted a 0 byte file which perfectly matched
             | another 0 byte file.
        
         | Veen wrote:
         | I know it's common for undergrad work in the UK. I don't know
         | about post-grad.
        
           | kergonath wrote:
           | It is. At least where I worked (well-known British
           | university).
        
         | zwayhowder wrote:
         | It is pretty normal for most universities to require all
         | assignments be submitted via TurnItIn or a similar tool that
         | can do aggregated plagiarism checks not just against published
         | articles but also assignments submitted by other students.
         | 
         | But it doesn't apply to conference papers as far as I know or
         | journal articles either. (As in when submitting to a journal
         | for publication).
        
         | worker767424 wrote:
         | I keep waiting for someone to find a plagiarism checker
         | retained a copy of their work and sue for copyright
         | infringement.
        
           | mkl wrote:
           | Of course they retain a copy; that's part of how they detect
           | plagiarism. It's been ruled fair use in the US [1], and if it
           | hadn't it would be in the terms and conditions. You can opt
           | out of retention on TurnItIn, but it's the default.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.turnitin.com/blog/top-15-misconceptions-
           | about-tu...
        
             | analog31 wrote:
             | Does it satisfy FERPA? If my paper were in their database,
             | and all or part of it was revealed to another student in
             | the process of claiming a match, that would be a violation
             | of my FERPA rights.
        
               | lazyasciiart wrote:
               | Only if it was personally identifiable.
        
             | worker767424 wrote:
             | I think that ruling is only for the Fourth Circuit.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | Sebb767 wrote:
         | Here in Germany, at least thesis works will usually be required
         | as PDF and ran through a checker (which will then, in turn,
         | register the work). It doesn't seem to be overly important (it
         | seems, for example, everyone copies that required front page ;)
         | ), but they did catch a missing source in the thesis of a
         | friend of mine, so they do look at it.
        
       | cbanek wrote:
       | Well they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery (that
       | mediocrity can pay to greatness). I wonder what this imposter
       | thinks every time he looks down at the tattoos on his hands that
       | will remind him of what he's done for quite a while, if not
       | forever.
        
         | ajcp wrote:
         | Right? Hopefully he didn't get them purely for the scam. He
         | could genuinely like the tatts and general style of the guy.
         | Hipster kitsch isn't even that unique.
        
           | luckylion wrote:
           | That's what I was thinking. The picture reminded me of that
           | one story about a Hipster going after some website over an
           | article claiming all Hipster look alike that he found used
           | his picture without permission ... only to find out that it
           | wasn't him.
           | 
           | From the pictures of him and his colleague it seems that the
           | people who study tattoos are into getting tattoos as well, I
           | find it absolutely plausible that the guy got them
           | separately. It's not like Letters On Fingers is such a new
           | concept that everyone who does that copied him.
        
             | irscott wrote:
             | He had both a flower on his hand and the letters tattooed
             | on his knuckles. Know More isn't a particularly common
             | knuckle tattoo and to also have the same style of flower on
             | the hand is definitely suspect.
             | 
             | Even that type of flower as a hand tattoo isn't very
             | common.
        
               | luckylion wrote:
               | I wouldn't know how common it is, it just looked somewhat
               | cliche to me, so I figured it wouldn't be rare. Like
               | stickers on a mac book.
               | 
               | Somebody should create a registry where people can lay
               | claim to their tattoo's originality. Add blockchain, call
               | it TATS, instant hit.
        
               | irscott wrote:
               | Shit, make em NFTs and make a fortune.
        
               | ksm1717 wrote:
               | Agreed. Given every single other (less specific) detail
               | that was copied, yea... right the tattoos were probably a
               | coincidence.
        
             | glangdale wrote:
             | Did you read the article as well as look at the pictures?
             | 
             | You do know that it's about someone who plagiarized another
             | person's academic papers as, apparently, his entire output
             | as a Master's student?
        
       | unixhero wrote:
       | I would report it to the Police.
        
       | squarefoot wrote:
       | "We never contacted the police, because we didn't think he'd done
       | anything illegal. It was really an issue of academic misconduct."
       | 
       | He should have contacted the Police immediately. What if a crime
       | was committed nearby where the impostor was located under false
       | identity, and he was later taken into custody instead? I don't
       | know if it qualifies as a crime, but assuming someone else's
       | identity can lead to very dangerous consequences.
        
         | birdyrooster wrote:
         | Not to mention these imposter types often assume a catalog of
         | different identities and participate in other frauds.
        
         | baud147258 wrote:
         | I'm not sure the impostor was using the academic's identity,
         | just his (and other people's) work
        
           | jopsen wrote:
           | He copied his tattoo!
           | 
           | That's some dedication.. on the flip side it's hard not to
           | feel sorry for someone being so dumb.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | nomdep wrote:
         | The whole story probably isn't true or it has been grossly
         | exagerated.
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26604886
        
             | nomdep wrote:
             | Aha! So the reason he didn't file a police report was: "He
             | never actually claimed to be me, he just stole all my
             | moves"
             | https://twitter.com/mattlodder/status/1350379466313396224
        
               | jopsen wrote:
               | Still, making money of copyright infringement is often a
               | crime.
               | 
               | But if it's not a movie or music, I guess it might not
               | matter so much.
               | 
               | (on the other hand, the police probably has better things
               | to do)
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | Why do you think that?
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Well, they were in different countries so I'm not sure how
         | receptive the police in California would have been. Contacting
         | the school seems like an appropriate step.
        
       | worker767424 wrote:
       | I feel like this was an Ed Sheeran music video.
        
       | mmaunder wrote:
       | Twist: The article is written by the imposter who discredited and
       | then disappeared the real Dr Lodder.
        
         | otachack wrote:
         | _spoiler warning_
         | 
         | Perfect Blue vibes!
        
         | parsimo2010 wrote:
         | I expect that in my lifetime there will be (or already has
         | been) an imposter that gets a leg up on someone in this way and
         | pulls it off- "no, I wrote the article first, they stole it
         | from me and published it. Here are my drafts which predate
         | their submission. Fire them, not me."
        
           | Qub3d wrote:
           | As the imposter this is a really dangerous gambit, though. If
           | it succeeds, and that person stops doing academic work, who
           | does the imposter plagiarize from?
        
             | luckylion wrote:
             | Success predicts success. Maybe it works out: you get
             | funding, you're regarded as a smart scientist etc, so your
             | work is judged with that in mind.
             | 
             | Especially in those parts of social sciences that are very
             | essay-heavy and don't deal with disprovable claims and
             | experiments, the difference between "that's total nonsense"
             | and "another intelligent contribution by a fellow scholar"
             | might be mostly knowing the author.
             | 
             | They could transition into postmodern studies and use the
             | Postmodern Generator [1] to get their new stuff.
             | 
             | [1]: https://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/
        
             | parsimo2010 wrote:
             | I suppose they would have to find someone else to
             | plagiarize if they wanted to continue their con. I don't
             | think an impostor would set out to do this, they would
             | prepare it as a backup plan in case they were discovered.
             | At that point it's dangerous, but the alternative is to
             | give up and confess. That would make it seem like a worthy
             | last ditch effort. Maybe if they pull it off they aren't
             | interested in sustaining the con long term, but rather just
             | enough to solidify their gains and move on to something
             | else.
        
         | tinus_hn wrote:
         | Directed by M Night Shyamalan
        
       | swayvil wrote:
       | That's a disappointingly remote kind of tracking-down.
       | 
       | You need to meet him in person. He sounds like an awesome freak.
       | There is way more to this story than just "plagiarism".
        
       | Yaa101 wrote:
       | These people are called chimeras, some of them are so dangerous
       | that they replace a person in real time, yes meaning that they
       | kill the person to take it's place. Nature brings strange
       | creatures.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-03-28 23:02 UTC)