[HN Gopher] Brazil's mismanagement of Covid-19 threatens the world
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       Brazil's mismanagement of Covid-19 threatens the world
        
       Author : marcodiego
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2021-03-27 22:14 UTC (46 minutes ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.economist.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.economist.com)
        
       | jacob2484 wrote:
       | How about we talk about the actual elephant in the room? China na
       | and its denial of anything serious going on + not sharing
       | information early on which could have prevented a majority of
       | deaths.
        
         | deanCommie wrote:
         | Because It's not the actual elephant in the room.
         | 
         | In any operational outage, you focus mitigation, then
         | prevention.
         | 
         | We are still in the midst of a global pandemic, and things can
         | still get worse before they get better. Nothing China did or
         | didn't do or lied or didn't lie about a year ago helps deal
         | with OTHER authoritarian governments TODAY contributing to
         | hundreds of thousands of other deaths and potential resurgence
         | with P1.
        
       | jimbob45 wrote:
       | Let the country that has not screwed up at one point during this
       | pandemic cast the first stone.
       | 
       | Seems like every country is trying to point the finger at every
       | other country to cover their own flaws.
        
       | dominotw wrote:
       | I am still perplexed by the fact that no one is holding China
       | accountable. How is this possible? Is it because we don't want to
       | mess with the dope dealer that has us hooked on cheap junk.
        
       | moralsupply wrote:
       | Sweden doesn't "manage" Covid-19 according to the expectations of
       | whoever wrote this article (no lockdowns, no masks, no "social
       | distancing" rules, etc.).
       | 
       | Is Sweden "threatening the world" as well?
       | 
       | Or is this the usual political narrative the left-wing press uses
       | to bash right-wing politicians?
        
         | arez wrote:
         | it's not, everyone can see that the current situation in brazil
         | is far worse then in sweden. Sweden didn't had 200m people the
         | last time I checked
        
           | giacaglia wrote:
           | Yet, Sao Paulo, the worst state in Brazil in covid cases and
           | hospitalizations has the hardest lockdown
        
         | Sporktacular wrote:
         | Sweden isn't likely big enough to produce mutations.
         | 
         | But sure, The Economist is left wing now.
         | 
         | Almost the definition of whataboutism.
        
           | bauerd wrote:
           | Mutations are a matter of chance
        
             | tsimionescu wrote:
             | Yes, and for a fixed mutation chance, the bigger the
             | population, the greater the likelihood that a mutation will
             | happen. Say a mutation has a 1 in 1000 chance of happening.
             | For a disease that infects 1000 people, you would expect 1
             | person to end up with some mutation. If the same disease
             | infects 1,000,000 people, you would expect 1000 mutations
             | to occur.
        
             | uniqueid wrote:
             | It's a matter of chance if a cell has a cancerous mutation,
             | but I still don't want to live near Chernobyl.
        
             | christophilus wrote:
             | My guess is they're saying if you have a population of 20,
             | you have 20 chances of mutation. If you have a population
             | of 200M, you have 200M chances of mutation. Size matters.
        
             | tekstar wrote:
             | Yes, and that chance is a diceroll on every infection, so
             | the more infections, the more times you're rolling that
             | die..
        
         | JacobSuperslav wrote:
         | I think it's fair to say that right wing politicians are
         | inherently harmful to society in a global sense given that they
         | primarily care about their own tribe.
        
           | modularform123 wrote:
           | Lenin, Stalin and Mao applaud from their graves, even as the
           | leader of National Socialism looks down lovingly from the
           | heavens at JacobSuperslav.
        
           | giacaglia wrote:
           | Lol, covid is been managed by the state level in Brazil. The
           | worst states in covid cases and deaths are the ones that are
           | left-leaning and have the hardest lockdowns. This is the
           | worst take I've seen in this website by far
        
           | krona wrote:
           | Compared to what?
        
             | unixhero wrote:
             | Compared to non right wing non populist mad men who want to
             | see existing society and institutions crash and burn.
             | 
             | Such as Bolsonaro, such as Trump.
        
           | jacob2484 wrote:
           | That's not "fair to say". That's your opinion. You can argue
           | that Texas is "right wing" and yet people keep flocking there
           | - wanting less government ("aka California") in their is
           | inherently harmful?
        
             | pharmakom wrote:
             | I don't think the fact that people are choosing Texas over
             | California for themselves disproves OPs point.
        
         | makomk wrote:
         | There's definitely an element of truth to that. For example,
         | Italy's mismanagement of Covid-19 probably did immense damage
         | to the world - early on the European outbreaks were basically a
         | gradient radiating outwards from there, there's some evidence
         | that even the US's outbreak came from Italy, and it seems they
         | somehow managed to report zero cases right up until the point a
         | significant proportion of their population was infected which
         | would require _really, spectacularly_ screwing up their testing
         | program - but that narrative never made an appearance in the
         | media because it 'd make it harder to blame right-wing
         | politicians in countries like the UK and US which the media
         | dislikes. Instead, the narrative around Italy is that actually,
         | it was the _other_ countries like the UK and the US which
         | screwed up worst because they should 've learned from Italy, as
         | though there was something meaningful that could be learned
         | from a country that collected so little useful data. On the
         | other hand, Bolsonaro was really pally with Trump and gets the
         | full blame for everything. I wouldn't even be surprised if
         | there was some mutation during the first Italian outbreak which
         | made Covid-19 more of a danger; there's not really any way we
         | could tell.
         | 
         | (This also basically completely doomed contact tracing in every
         | other western country, because they had no reason to be looking
         | for cases related to people who'd travelled from Italy until it
         | was far too late to start. It's probably not a coincidence that
         | all the countries which made it vaguely work were ones that
         | were close to China rather than Europe.)
        
           | pharmakom wrote:
           | There was so much to learn. When the hospitals in northern
           | Italy were being overwhelmed the UK prime minister was
           | telling us to wash our hands more but continue business as
           | usual. This probably cost UK around 50k deaths.
        
       | xchaotic wrote:
       | We're screwed until covid becomes endemic like flu is now, where
       | vaccines are optional. Brazil just accelerates the process.
        
         | bluedevil2k wrote:
         | So we should believe your ramblings over experienced
         | epidemiologists who say differently?
        
       | endisneigh wrote:
       | Can't read entire article due to paywall, but the title and
       | preview are hard to disagree with.
       | 
       | Brazil is a huge country and any large country having an outbreak
       | is obviously bad for the world. This much is clearly self evident
       | from the initial outbreak.
        
         | ratsmack wrote:
         | ARCHIVE: https://archive.ph/FR7HH
        
         | phkahler wrote:
         | OK. How does one country not handling a pandemic threaten the
         | world?
         | 
         | It's certainly bad for the people there, but how is it bad for
         | the rest of us? It's a pandemic, it's not like failing to
         | contain the initial outbreak.
        
           | marcodiego wrote:
           | The country is big, with a big enough population, highly
           | movable/mobile, slow vaccination and at least 3 native
           | variants that are more dangerous than the original one. Very
           | good conditions for the emergence of new resistant variants.
           | 
           | What is scaring the world the most now is the possibility of
           | a new brazilian variant that can escape current vaccines.
           | That would move the whole world to the beginning of the
           | pandemic again.
        
           | jmacd wrote:
           | Breeding ground for variants. Much more likely to happen in
           | such a high infection population. Then they spread to the
           | world.
        
           | endisneigh wrote:
           | People travel, and mutations can be created from the non
           | inoculated interacting with the inoculated
        
           | AnthonBerg wrote:
           | The more and the worse the infections, the more the infected
           | serve as a bioreactor which not only generates viral mass but
           | also serves as an evolutionary playing field for accelerated
           | viral development. We are fast-forwarding the virus into the
           | future.
        
       | eecc wrote:
       | Ok, Economist. So where's the Coup? Usually it follows the moment
       | when certain establishments determine that a government is no
       | longer desirable, or convenient. In this case it'll never be too
       | early
        
       | modularform123 wrote:
       | Yet it is the South African variant which is much more dangerous
       | and resistant to vaccines. The South African government is left-
       | wing and has embraced reparations so you won't hear about how
       | they mismanaged Covid.
        
       | caiob wrote:
       | So much racism here based on political opinions. Jeez, it really
       | shows people here are living in a bubble in SF.
        
       | grecy wrote:
       | This is such a nonsense headline.
       | 
       | It is immensely clear that most (all?) countries in the world are
       | soon going to require proof of covid vaccine before they'll even
       | consider letting a person travel to their country.
       | 
       | If you find this hard to believe, this system already works
       | today, very well. It's already the case for many, many countries
       | in Africa - you can't get a visa, and the airlines won't let you
       | on a plane unless you have proof of Yellow Fever vaccine. You
       | also can't cross land borders. It even goes a step further - when
       | entering a country like Australia they specifically ask if you've
       | been to <given African countries> in the last 90 days, and they
       | won't even let you into Australia if you have not had the Yellow
       | Fever Vaccine.
       | 
       | If you're wondering why the airlines enforce this, it's the same
       | reason they enforce visas. The governments cleverly decided to
       | make airlines foot the bill for anyone that must be sent back,
       | therefore airlines are strict about not allowing anyone to board
       | who they know would be denied entry. It works very well, and has
       | done for decades.
       | 
       | From my experience travelling the world, it's immensely clear
       | this will soon be the requirement to fly essentially anywhere in
       | the world - proof of Covid vaccine and possibly a recent negative
       | test and possibly a short quarantine on arrival and even another
       | test in a few days. (like Iceland now).
       | 
       | This will be an interesting way to "force" citizens to get a
       | vaccine. Your own government probably won't be able to (human
       | rights and all), but foreign governments will force you to, if
       | you desire to ever leave your own country.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-27 23:00 UTC)