[HN Gopher] I tracked down my impostor
___________________________________________________________________
I tracked down my impostor
Author : vanilla-almond
Score : 180 points
Date : 2021-03-27 18:02 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| dakial1 wrote:
| This seems a case of a high level mythomaniac. Funnily enough
| I've encountered some in the recent years that got me thinking if
| this kind of psycho disease was increasing or simply I got more
| knowledgeable in a way that I started spotting it. I really don't
| know, because we can clearly spot this kind of people today
| (Trump anyone?) but is it getting worse or have they always been
| there?
|
| It something impressive the lenghts these kind of people go with
| their lies and deception, keeping a straight face even when the
| lie is obvious.
| MrsPeaches wrote:
| > that got me thinking if this kind of psycho disease was
| increasing or simply I got more knowledgeable in a way that I
| started spotting it
|
| Just FYI it's known as the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon or the
| Frequency illusion [1]
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion
| formerly_proven wrote:
| I'm pretty sure people who habitually lie about basically
| everything (Sayre's law applies, for some weird reason) are
| simply believing their own lies and cannot consistently tell
| reality from their made-up world. Any conflict between reality
| and their world is met with a defensive response (straight up
| acting like something was not brought up, shallow dismissals,
| changing topics, aggression).
|
| I didn't know there's a special word for this - mythomaniac - I
| just figured these guys are somewhere on the
| psychopath/sociopath scale.
|
| Edit: Trump put a slightly different twist on it, he lied as a
| show of power/dominance by lying about something which is
| immediately and obviously false, then observing that no one
| speaks up (i.e. submitting to his power).
| disabled wrote:
| I have been a victim of this, and it is still an ongoing matter.
| If you don't want to find yourself a victim of these kinds of
| people, you better keep these two links as a reference, and
| always take them to heart:
|
| Narcissists Online:
| http://www.issendai.com/psychology/narcissism/narcissists-on...
|
| What to Remember When Dealing with a Narcissist:
| http://www.issendai.com/psychology/narcissism/narcissists-wh...
|
| People who do this sort of stuff have narcissistic traits at
| minimum, which of course is an armchair diagnosis. But, these
| people really do not need to meet the criteria for narcissistic
| personality disorder. All you need to know is that they are
| people who will harm you in some incredibly hurtful way, because
| they have contempt for you being yourself.
|
| Some of these people have antisocial traits, and are malignant
| narcissists. Some of them outright have both narcissistic
| personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder.
|
| Regardless, these people masquerade as "entrepreneurs",
| "researchers", "thinkers", "doers", or as "authors", when their
| entire works are just plagiarized material from others. People
| make entire livings off of such grifts and it becomes a central,
| if not their only identity. Of course, it is always about getting
| the next award or accolade, even though it is "empty" to them
| because they have intrinsically low self-esteem and an
| unbelievably fragile ego.
| VectorLock wrote:
| So this guy just got found out, got kicked out of school, changed
| his social media profiles and then just... evaporated? Just
| running around out there doing whatever with another guy's
| tattoos?
| wunderflix wrote:
| What a crazy story. Reminds me of the movie "Following" by
| Christopher Nolan. Similarly, a weird person who is stalking
| people. Worth a watch...
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Is there any verification of this story? The way it ends with "As
| told to Amy Sedghi" makes me think this is some spoken word story
| rather than some journalistic recounting of events.
| [deleted]
| ectopod wrote:
| It just means that Amy Sedghi interviewed him, and then wrote
| it from a first person pov. It's not unusual.
| uniqueid wrote:
| The claim is unusual. My guess is this article (or the
| alleged events it describes) is part of someone's art project
| or experiment.
| ghaff wrote:
| Well, the person telling a story is a real person and it's
| been printed in not only the Guardian but the BBC and I
| assume elsewhere. These are news organizations that do at
| least a modicum of fact-checking.
| uniqueid wrote:
| These are news organizations that do at least a
| modicum of fact-checking.
|
| Depending on the situation, it could be impossible for a
| fact-checker to prove that the two people in the story
| had an agreement and a prior relationship. Not to
| mention, it's a novelty item in the 'Lifestyle' section,
| not a report on an arms accord or something.
| agency wrote:
| And the guy is clearly a real scholar: https://scholar.go
| ogle.com/citations?user=0g9Hm1cAAAAJ&hl=en...
| [deleted]
| uniqueid wrote:
| I noticed that. It's why afaic the most plausible
| explanation -- considering the incredible claims -- is
| that this is part of some experiment that has socially
| redeeming value.
| ketamine__ wrote:
| Why aren't there any pictures of this imposter? Surely
| respecting his privacy isn't warranted since he's public with
| his imposter persona.
|
| Not surprised I'm getting downvoted by people that support
| abusers.
| [deleted]
| dorkwood wrote:
| Malcolm X's autobiography is "as told to Alex Haley". I believe
| it's a common phrase used when an article is written by a
| journalist, but from the first-person perspective of the
| interviewee.
| mkl wrote:
| Yes. Some other well-known ones are Richard Feynman's _Surely
| you 're joking Mr. Feynman_ and _What do you care what other
| people think?_ , which are "as told to Ralph Leighton".
| yesenadam wrote:
| That's maybe not the most comforting example - Alex Haley's
| _Roots_ was both convicted of plagiarism _and_ seemed to be
| very amateurishly researched, to put it mildly. At least it
| was called "fiction", although it was sold in non-fiction
| sections. And the central claim was presented as if true; "he
| claimed to have traced his family lineage back to Kunta
| Kinte, an African taken from the village of Juffure in what
| is now The Gambia". The wikipedia page is fascinating, e.g.
|
| "Donald R. Wright, a historian of the West African slave
| trade, found that elders and griots in The Gambia could not
| provide detailed information on people living before the
| mid-19th century, but everyone had heard of Kunta Kinte.
| Haley had told his story to so many people, and his version
| of his family history had been assimilated into the oral
| traditions of The Gambia. Haley had created a case of
| circular reporting, in which people repeated his words back
| to him."
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roots:_The_Saga_of_an_American.
| ..
| matt-attack wrote:
| What an incredibly odd story. I wonder if the man suffered from
| mental illness.
| jmercouris wrote:
| I am very certain he did, whether we have a name for it or not.
| cbanek wrote:
| While you're probably right, I always find it oddly weird
| sometimes how logical these things can be. Like copying
| tattoos and mannerisms. On one hand, it doesn't make sense to
| pretend to be someone else, but if you look past that, the
| steps were frighteningly logical. And this is where I think
| it dovetails into other scams. I'm not sure if the scammer is
| above it, a part of it, or unaware of it sometimes, but what
| they present and what you see isn't really the whole story.
| jshmrsn wrote:
| Actually, I'm confused by the logic of that. If you were
| plagiarizing someone, wouldn't you want to be look
| different from the original author so you don't remind
| people of them and get caught? His hand tattoos meant that
| anyone who know the original author and encountered the
| copycat would immediately be suspicious even if they
| weren't familiar with the subject matter.
| ironmagma wrote:
| But the only definition we have for mental illness is whether
| your situation falls under some category that we have a name
| for. It's a slippery (and fuzzy) enough slope having
| designations for illnesses that encompass a huge portion of
| the human condition (see Rosenhan). Much worse if we also
| include things that don't have entries in the DSM. It would
| be trivial enough to say that anyone you have even mild
| distaste for has a mental illness.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| > But the only definition we have for mental illness is
| whether your situation falls under some category that we
| have a name for.
|
| The one I heard was a variation of "does the person suffer
| due to the condition or cause harm to other people". That
| was a side course in university. I actually like that one a
| lot, since there's really not a clear line between an
| illness and just being different.
| ironmagma wrote:
| It also doesn't make a meaningful distinction from non-
| mental illness though, like chronic pain or even poverty.
| [deleted]
| autophagian wrote:
| For the curious: this emerged as a twitter thread back in Jan
| https://twitter.com/mattlodder/status/1350192856154198016 . In
| it, Dr. Lodder posts a comparison between his tattoos and his
| imposters, as well as a talk his imposter gave based on his work,
| while dressed as him. Creepy.
| nchelluri wrote:
| Interesting how the test score is 80% in the twitter thread and
| 95% in the article.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| I thought the same thing. Through the twitter thread
| references a magazine article, while the original article on
| talks about "something [he] wrote", so they _might_ be
| different pieces.
|
| EDIT: Or the imposter gave the interview and added a mark up
| ;)
| ajcp wrote:
| Given he's a UK prof if he was told the paper was given an
| 'A' in the UK that can be anywhere from 70-100, while in the
| US it is 90-100. He might have initially split the
| difference, and then corrected it/was corrected for the
| article.
| worker767424 wrote:
| > in the US it is 90-100
|
| In a science or engineering class, it might be everything
| above 40%.
| IshKebab wrote:
| Classic article about a picture without showing the picture.
| kergonath wrote:
| That's some dedication. And some nerve. I wonder why he'd try
| that in academia; there are probably other jobs in which his
| skills would be more useful.
| vletal wrote:
| Nice burn.
|
| Joking aside, I agree. There is so many things you could
| achieve while successfully impersonating someone. Seems like
| the best you can do in academia is to ruin someone's career.
| In this case it seemed fortunately "harmless" though.
| bombcar wrote:
| Academia is one where the chickens won't come home to roost
| - as in you won't actually be called to DO what you're
| impostering to be able to do.
|
| Fake being a surgeon and they'll assign you to surgery,
| etc.
| [deleted]
| green_space wrote:
| Psychiatry is a field where you can get away it. Zholia
| Alemi successfully masqueraded as a qualified
| psychiatrist for 23 years
| https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/17230748.doctor-faked-
| wil...
| chki wrote:
| Gert Postel (a German mailman) also managed to be a fake
| psychiatrist for 17 years; it's a very unsettling story
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert_Postel
| https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert_Postel
| foobiekr wrote:
| You should listen to the "dr death" podcast [1]. Season
| one was actually terrifying and is, in fact, what happens
| when an imposter pretends to be a surgeon.
|
| [1] https://wondery.com/shows/dr-death/
| Ansil849 wrote:
| I think the positive here is that more people got to learn about
| the person's work. Sure he didn't get credited, but the important
| thing should be his research, not himself.
|
| And the tattoos I can't even begin to understand what the issue
| is. Walking down a busy street, I can't begin to count how many
| mimicked tattoos I see.
| vletal wrote:
| Like maybe if it was cited properly...
| kebman wrote:
| Man, this is just sad...
| kfoley wrote:
| Reminds me of something I experienced on HN and Reddit, though my
| case was a far less significant level.
|
| I posted a comment on HN in response to some article about Emacs.
| Later that day I saw someone had copied my comment word for word
| in reply to the same article on Reddit.
|
| I still have no idea why someone would do that. I thought at
| first it was some kind of karma farming operation but the post
| history of the Reddit user didn't really fit that profile.
| Plus,it seems like r/emacs would be a really poor choice for
| that.
|
| I've always been curious to know why someone would do something
| like this. It's interesting to read about it happening on a way
| larger scale.
| easton wrote:
| I once found a link on reddit that I had posted on HN, and in
| it, several people had word for word copied comments from the
| HN thread without attribution. I presumed it was karma farming
| too, since they had gotten a lot of upvotes but not a lot of
| responses. reddit's anti-evil team didn't though, so I guess it
| was just people that wanted to "retweet".
| jancsika wrote:
| > I still have no idea why someone would do that.
|
| It's a fundamental way to learn.
|
| E.g., suppose people tell me I'm a real funny person. Let me
| test that.
|
| 1. I remember a joke from a professional funny person widely
| considered to be one of the best.
|
| 2. I tell that joke to the people who told me I'm a real funny
| person.
|
| 3. I measure the laughter I get.
|
| If the laughter is different-- e.g., if the people tell me this
| is by far the funniest thing I've ever said, then I know I've
| got a lot more to learn about jokes. On the other hand, if it's
| the same amount of laughter I usually get, perhaps I've got a
| real talent here.
|
| Of course, it _could_ be these are just close friends and they
| are primed to think anything I say is funny. Nevertheless, just
| the act of telling that joke as if it were my own gives me the
| experience of the timing and emphasis of that comic. It 's a
| gain of knowledge.
|
| That process is an order of magnitude faster on Reddit with
| control-v. Who know, maybe it even makes that person a bit more
| cynical about "karma" points. If so, they've at least become a
| less naive person.
| mannykannot wrote:
| Copying a post is completely unlike this. There is nothing in
| doing so that compares to improving one's delivery of a joke.
| nchelluri wrote:
| I understand what you are saying about copying someone to
| learn. I'm just not sure I agree it applies to digital media
| or bits especially in the exact same context (in response to
| the same article).
| m463 wrote:
| (slightly off-topic)
|
| When I was young, all my jokes were from somewhere else (101
| funny jokes!) and people thought they were funny. My problem
| was remembering them.
|
| Nowadays everybody has seen all the good ones ("Bring me my
| brown pants!")
|
| So now the problem with telling jokes from a "professional
| funny person" is that if you've heard it before, chances are
| others have too and you're getting polite laughter.
| imagica wrote:
| Retelling helps learning a lot more than copying verbatim.
| malwarebytess wrote:
| I post other people's answers that I've read, but it's always
| with attribution or at least with "copied from x". I imagine if
| someone did the same with your post but didn't provide
| attribution it was out of pure laziness. When I post on /g/, an
| anonymous message board, I often copy paste other answers or
| code without attribution since it's easier and people don't
| usually care where it came from, and no one will care whether I
| wrote it or not. I imagine I'm not alone in this.
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| I bet it was Reddit internal bots.
|
| I feel that company scrapes sites continuity, trying to elevate
| their discussions--- which are basically a mad three word race
| to the fart joke.
| mannykannot wrote:
| Maybe they think it's the smart thing to do - in fact, maybe
| they have a degree in doing it!
| cortesoft wrote:
| There was a Reddit bot a few years ago (aptly named
| 'trappedinreddit') that would automatically post the previous
| top comment on reposts. Predictably, those comments would get
| upvoted again, and trappedinreddit would end up with the top
| comment on most posts. It lasted a few months before the bot
| was outed and it went away.
| worker767424 wrote:
| Sweet, sweet karma. And then you go sell the account.
| headmelted wrote:
| Others have said bots, I'd lean more towards someone thought it
| sounded like a clever reply, went to reddit where the same
| conversation was taking place and posted it in the thread in
| hopes of scoring some cheap karma.
| m463 wrote:
| I think there are some direct ways to profit (like
| "recommending" items from amazon that are from top-sales
| statistics)
|
| I wonder at all the indirect ways though. Maybe the account is
| enhanced to a reasonable reputation and is "banked" for later.
| Maybe there are levels of reputation that unlock abilities
| either on or off the site.
|
| Or maybe some people are addicted to those silly internet
| points.
|
| I'm surprised HN has a visible "score". I remember other sites
| would cap it at some value, basically reputation: excellent.
| [deleted]
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| Reminds me of something I experienced on HN and Reddit, though
| my case was a far less significant level. I posted a comment on
| HN in response to some article about Emacs. Later that day I
| saw someone had copied my comment word for word in reply to the
| same article on Reddit. I still have no idea why someone would
| do that. I thought at first it was some kind of karma farming
| operation but the post history of the Reddit user didn't really
| fit that profile. Plus,it seems like r/emacs would be a really
| poor choice for that. I've always been curious to know why
| someone would do something like this. It's interesting to read
| about it happening on a way larger scale.
| xenonite wrote:
| Well: Reminds me of something I experienced on HN and Reddit,
| though my case was a far less significant level. I posted a
| comment on HN in response to some article about Emacs. Later
| that day I saw someone had copied my comment word for word in
| reply to the same article on Reddit. I still have no idea why
| someone would do that. I thought at first it was some kind of
| karma farming operation but the post history of the Reddit
| user didn't really fit that profile. Plus,it seems like
| r/emacs would be a really poor choice for that. I've always
| been curious to know why someone would do something like
| this. It's interesting to read about it happening on a way
| larger scale.
| mahalol wrote:
| Well, this is definitely the kind of content I wouldn't be
| surprised to read on reddit, but a bit disappointing to see
| it on HN.
| kvirani wrote:
| I just did the same thing (out of laziness of course) and
| then saw this great point. Deleted mine.
| UShouldBWorking wrote:
| This is definitely the kind of content I wouldn't be
| surprised to read on reddit, but a bit disappointing to see
| it on HN
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| I mean its plagiarism, but motivation was probably something
| like: I liked this comment i read on HN. It answers a question
| that is being discussed in reddit. I could attribute it, or
| just copy and paste...or so goes the modervn internet share
| brendoelfrendo wrote:
| It's almost always bot accounts. Reddit is decent at catching
| bots so the botters copy legitimate comments, build a post
| history, and then switch to scamming or spamming after the
| account has some credibility.
| duxup wrote:
| >Reddit is decent at catching bots
|
| I don't know about that so much. I'm seeing a lot more
| straight up spam on reddit that looks easy to spot, but I
| think reddit gave up or something...
| brendoelfrendo wrote:
| Totally possible. Maybe enough people figured out how to
| game their detection so they gave up, or if it was so
| gameable in the first place it was never as good as I'm
| remembering.
| DoubleGlazing wrote:
| Happened to a friend of mine. He'd posted an article on a
| website devoted to a specific form of fluid dynamics
| discussion. This was a site with less than 50 active users.
|
| Someone submitted the article (edited to sound more academic)
| to a journal - and with extra authors added. The journal almost
| published it, but they didn't because at the last minute one of
| their reviewers felt they recognized the content as having been
| published before.
|
| I think the moral of the story is that some people are up to no
| good and we'll never understand why.
| whatshisface wrote:
| Reminds me of something I experienced on HN and Reddit,
| though my case was a far less significant level. There was a
| Reddit bot a few years ago (aptly named 'trappedinreddit')
| that would automatically post the previous top comment on
| reposts. I bet it was Reddit internal bots. That process is
| an order of magnitude faster on Reddit than control-v.
| luckylion wrote:
| Did it make sense in the thread on reddit?
|
| There are a couple of bots (I hope) on Stack Overflow that re-
| post answers to other questions that are vaguely related based
| on keywords or tags. They usually didn't make sense in the
| question context, but were upvoted by people for some reason.
| pmiller2 wrote:
| Maybe they're upvoted by other bots as well?
| dylan604 wrote:
| Could it be an attempt to at legitimacy to fake accounts so
| they seem less fake on cursory glances? Using these accounts to
| support that the profile they are really trying to use is not
| fake?
| nerdponx wrote:
| This is always an issue on Reddit.
| gverrilla wrote:
| they agreed with every word you said?
| k33n wrote:
| Obviously made up.
| mycologos wrote:
| What makes you say that?
| foobar33333 wrote:
| Very sus
| WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
| Bro, I heard of plagiarism of a paper but not like a whole
| person.
| csense wrote:
| Getting the same tattoos as your target?
|
| That's one dedicated identity thief.
| imagica wrote:
| But a sad thing overall, imagine he's stuck with this identity
| now but it no longer bears fruits for him. I assume this person
| didn't have much of an identity in the first place..
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > Some of the work should have been spotted by plagiarism
| checkers
|
| I've been in postgraduate academia and industry, and been
| involved in multiple conferences at different levels. I'm not
| aware of anyone ever running a plagiarism detector on any
| submitted work at all. Do other people do this? Should the people
| I work with have been doing it?
| jonnat wrote:
| My daughter is in 5th grade, attending school virtually due to
| the pandemic, and she has all her submitted assignments
| automatically verified by plagiarism checkers. In fact, she's
| encouraged to use online plagiarism checkers herself before
| submission to avoid false positives.
| dylan604 wrote:
| It's been a minute since I was in 5th grade. I'm trying to
| remember what kind of assignments I would have had where I
| could have plagiarized something that would not have been
| immediately obvious to the teacher.
| Veen wrote:
| My partner finds it frustrating that she has to edit out
| "false positives" even when she knows damn well she hasn't
| plagiarised.
| ksaj wrote:
| Editors have to do that already, so if she doesn't have an
| editor, it probably is her job.
|
| In High School, I did a (very) short co-op copyrighting for
| a radio station. At the time I thought it was pretty
| ridiculous that I had to basically reword everything to
| mean the same thing, but differently. As a grown-up and
| seeing the same stories in different papers struck me as
| ultra-lazy, and then I realized why all that copyrighting
| had to be done.
| Veen wrote:
| I know it's common for undergrad work in the UK. I don't know
| about post-grad.
| kergonath wrote:
| It is. At least where I worked (well-known British
| university).
| zwayhowder wrote:
| It is pretty normal for most universities to require all
| assignments be submitted via TurnItIn or a similar tool that
| can do aggregated plagiarism checks not just against published
| articles but also assignments submitted by other students.
|
| But it doesn't apply to conference papers as far as I know or
| journal articles either. (As in when submitting to a journal
| for publication).
| worker767424 wrote:
| I keep waiting for someone to find a plagiarism checker
| retained a copy of their work and sue for copyright
| infringement.
| mkl wrote:
| Of course they retain a copy; that's part of how they detect
| plagiarism. It's been ruled fair use in the US [1], and if it
| hadn't it would be in the terms and conditions. You can opt
| out of retention on TurnItIn, but it's the default.
|
| [1] https://www.turnitin.com/blog/top-15-misconceptions-
| about-tu...
| worker767424 wrote:
| I think that ruling is only for the Fourth Circuit.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| Here in Germany, at least thesis works will usually be required
| as PDF and ran through a checker (which will then, in turn,
| register the work). It doesn't seem to be overly important (it
| seems, for example, everyone copies that required front page ;)
| ), but they did catch a missing source in the thesis of a
| friend of mine, so they do look at it.
| cbanek wrote:
| Well they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery (that
| mediocrity can pay to greatness). I wonder what this imposter
| thinks every time he looks down at the tattoos on his hands that
| will remind him of what he's done for quite a while, if not
| forever.
| ajcp wrote:
| Right? Hopefully he didn't get them purely for the scam. He
| could genuinely like the tatts and general style of the guy.
| Hipster kitsch isn't even that unique.
| luckylion wrote:
| That's what I was thinking. The picture reminded me of that
| one story about a Hipster going after some website over an
| article claiming all Hipster look alike that he found used
| his picture without permission ... only to find out that it
| wasn't him.
|
| From the pictures of him and his colleague it seems that the
| people who study tattoos are into getting tattoos as well, I
| find it absolutely plausible that the guy got them
| separately. It's not like Letters On Fingers is such a new
| concept that everyone who does that copied him.
| squarefoot wrote:
| "We never contacted the police, because we didn't think he'd done
| anything illegal. It was really an issue of academic misconduct."
|
| He should have contacted the Police immediately. What if a crime
| was committed nearby where the impostor was located under false
| identity, and he was later taken into custody instead? I don't
| know if it qualifies as a crime, but assuming someone else's
| identity can lead to very dangerous consequences.
| birdyrooster wrote:
| Not to mention these imposter types often assume a catalog of
| different identities and participate in other frauds.
| [deleted]
| nomdep wrote:
| The whole story probably isn't true or it has been grossly
| exagerated.
| macintux wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26604886
| duxup wrote:
| Why do you think that?
| ghaff wrote:
| Well, they were in different countries so I'm not sure how
| receptive the police in California would have been. Contacting
| the school seems like an appropriate step.
| worker767424 wrote:
| I feel like this was an Ed Sheeran music video.
| mmaunder wrote:
| Twist: The article is written by the imposter who discredited and
| then disappeared the real Dr Lodder.
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(page generated 2021-03-27 23:00 UTC)