[HN Gopher] Nike Statement on Xinjiang
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Nike Statement on Xinjiang
        
       Author : lawrenceyan
       Score  : 93 points
       Date   : 2021-03-27 17:41 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (purpose.nike.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (purpose.nike.com)
        
       | onethought wrote:
       | Do people not see this as agg-prop?
       | 
       | Like are we really buying into an issue that's been around in the
       | open since 2012 - suddenly it's unbearable and how can we do
       | business with evil folk like this!?
       | 
       | This just so happens to come up during US-China talks. The US is
       | by no means clean here either...
       | 
       | Frustrating that we all fall for these clearly geopolitical
       | driven narratives
        
       | slashdot2008 wrote:
       | How can anyone doing business with China look the other way on
       | Xinjiang simply by saying "our factory isn't there". Every one of
       | us buying goods made in China is enabling their behaviour by
       | showing that we would rather make more money or would rather have
       | cheaper electronics and plastic crap than standing up for the
       | human rights of the people in Xinjiang who are the focus of the
       | CCPs genocide.
       | 
       | I think it is a pivotal moment for this generation to show what
       | our principles are, if we have any.
       | 
       | As a Canadian I wish our Prime Minister Justin Trudeau would more
       | directly speak out against China's poor behaviour and offer some
       | temporary support for businesses that would be impacted. Sell the
       | grain and pork to someone else for less and I would gladly see
       | part of my tax dollars go to make up the loss for the Canadian
       | farmers.
       | 
       | edit: responses with counter points to help me understand your
       | point of view, or if I am out of line, would be more helpful than
       | downvotes.
        
         | lvs wrote:
         | The fact that you're being silently downvoted suggests this
         | generation does not want to be cornered on what its moral
         | principles are. Disappointing.
        
           | slashdot2008 wrote:
           | I'm in the market for new flat screen TV. Hopefully I can
           | find one made in South Korea or even Japen, and will pay a
           | premium for it. A pitiful sacrifice to make from someone who
           | can easily afford it.
        
             | stupendousyappi wrote:
             | Not much of a sacrifice, the best OLEDs are currently made
             | by LG, Samsung and Vizio.
        
             | lvs wrote:
             | Even so, there's a limit to how much the consumer can do,
             | given how interconnected supply chains are. Your TV may
             | ultimately be assembled in SK, but it will definitely be
             | sending revenue to China for myriad internal components. A
             | boycott is a challenging thing to implement at the consumer
             | level with modern supply chains. It's unclear what the best
             | mechanism to apply moral shame should be, especially when
             | political action is only interpreted cynically as economic
             | competition.
             | 
             | (...And I'm being silently downvoted just as you are.)
        
         | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
         | It's an entirely reasonable question, but I just can't quite
         | get on board with the consequence of collectively punishing the
         | Chinese people for Xinjiang. I won't do business with the
         | Chinese government, certainly. But if a team of Shanghai
         | developers makes a game I really like, I'm not comfortable
         | boycotting them for their government's sins; it seems both
         | unfair to them and unlikely to help anyone.
        
           | pueblito wrote:
           | What will it take for you?
        
         | cheaprentalyeti wrote:
         | Most of us _don't have any choice_ but to do business with
         | China at one point or another during the day, especially if
         | we're poor. Especially if we want to own a piece of
         | electronics, necessary if you want to (for example) apply for
         | unemployment insurance. (it's all electronic in this state, and
         | they _shut down_ all the local unemployment offices). Or make a
         | phone call. (Maybe I'll get lucky and wind up with the cheap
         | cell phone brand made in Vietnam instead of China. Woo hoo,
         | they haven't ethnically cleansed people in thirty years, and it
         | was a lot less than China did in the same time period. So moral
         | superiority!)
         | 
         | This isn't meant as a response to you, I'm just stating the
         | situation as I see it.
        
         | DasIch wrote:
         | I haven't downvoted you but there are a couple of problems
         | here.
         | 
         | > How can anyone doing business with China look the other way
         | on Xinjiang simply by saying "our factory isn't there".
         | 
         | In many industries not doing business with China is synonymous
         | with not doing business. Many supply chains go through China,
         | this is not something you can easily change.
         | 
         | Additionally capitalism incentives companies to focus on profit
         | over ethics. You can't expect companies to act against that.
         | That's why regulation is important to limit what companies can
         | do to what is acceptable.
         | 
         | Your expectation here is just not realistic.
         | 
         | > Every one of us buying goods made in China is enabling their
         | behaviour by showing that we would rather make more money or
         | would rather have cheaper electronics and plastic crap than
         | standing up for the human rights of the people in Xinjiang who
         | are the focus of the CCPs genocide.
         | 
         | Placing blame on consumers is extremely problematic because it
         | assumes people can make a choice here. That is not a reasonable
         | assumption. Consumers probably don't have the necessary
         | information about the product (and supply chain!), so they
         | can't make an informed decision not to buy a product on this
         | basis. Even if they had this information, they also may not
         | have the financial means to afford making a choice on that
         | basis.
         | 
         | We have effective mechanisms to define and enforce rules, it
         | involves governments taking action through creating and
         | enforcing laws. Putting blame on consumers ultimately shifts
         | responsibility away from people who could do something
         | meaningful about the problem to people who cannot.
         | 
         | > As a Canadian I wish our Prime Minister Justin Trudeau would
         | more directly speak out against China's poor behaviour and
         | offer some temporary support for businesses that would be
         | impacted.
         | 
         | Trudeau merely speaking out against China, also wouldn't help.
         | Sanctions might help and Canada is actually one of several
         | countries that has created sanctions over the treatment of
         | Uighurs.
         | 
         | I'm sure this is not your intention but effectively you're
         | arguing for actions that have no chance of actually solving the
         | problem. This is also a common political strategy by
         | neoliberals who are opposed to government intervention on
         | ideological grounds. So one might be inclined, to think that
         | you pretend to be offended because it's unacceptable not to but
         | don't really want it solved either.
        
           | slashdot2008 wrote:
           | Thanks for the insightful reply.
           | 
           | The pandemic has highlighted the fragility of global supply
           | chains and the downside of being dependent on others for
           | critical goods. They are cheap when they are plentiful but
           | they become unobtainable when they are desperately needed.
           | That, China's beligerent diplomats, and their decision to
           | ignore the Hong Kong treaty will hopefully be the impetus to
           | reduce reliance on China's supply chains by developing and
           | supporting other sources even if they are more expensive.
           | Perhaps even local sources given that friendly faces seem to
           | be able to to turn on you once they have some leverage, and
           | it is difficult to re-start an industry once that know-how is
           | lost forever.
           | 
           | As the son of an economics professor I never thought I would
           | argue for subsidies for uncompetitive natioanlized industry
           | but it turns out there is some additional benefit other than
           | the goods produced on a given day.
           | 
           | Politicians need support for hardships they may bring upon
           | us, such as reduced profits, more expensive goods, and
           | subsidies for local industry, that may be the result of
           | sanctions and moral high ground.
           | 
           | I think "vote with your wallet" campaigns and boycotts can be
           | a good indicator to politicians that their voters have the
           | stomach for the sanctions, just like a demonstration or march
           | in support of the Uighurs would.
           | 
           | Even ineffective measures that show your support for a cause,
           | such as wrapping a t-shirt around your face to avoid
           | spreading covid-19 particles that are the same size as
           | asbestos fibres and can sail right through, sends a message
           | that you are willing to make some sacrifice for the greater
           | good at the cost of some personal discomfort.
           | 
           | I support goverment intervention, but I think the government
           | needs to see they have the will of the voters behind them.
           | Thanks again for your thoughts!
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | > As a Canadian...
         | 
         | Detaining Meng Wanzhou is something.
        
           | katbyte wrote:
           | your comparing a legal obligation to extradite someone who
           | has committed fraud to our ally to stand trial to genocide?
        
         | throwawayfire wrote:
         | > I think it is a pivotal moment for this generation to show
         | what our principles are, if we have any.
         | 
         | It's already known that this (political) generation doesn't
         | have these principles. Government contracts rarely consider
         | anything beyond the cheapest offer. Corporations are obligated
         | to maximise their profit above all other considerations.
         | 
         | It's the West's (including Canada's) morals that have got us
         | here - we simply export our bad behaviour to other countries,
         | so that we don't have to see it.
         | 
         | Overall, nobody is going to stop importing clothes made in
         | China, because there isn't sufficient industry elsewhere in the
         | world. We closed it, and exported it to China, because it was
         | cheaper.
        
           | slashdot2008 wrote:
           | I think of my grandfathers, one who was in world war 1 and 2,
           | and the other in world war 2, and their whole generation
           | marching off to war to put their lives on the line to stand
           | up for what is right, and I can't imagine anybody I know
           | doing that unless they joined the military out of high school
           | because they didn't have any better options.
           | 
           | edit: I can't reply for some reason. (oh it's because parent
           | is flagged). If there was resistance in Canada to going to
           | war in world war 1 and 2 it isn't part of the history that is
           | taught to us. I imagine since there was no draft in Canada
           | only the willing went.
        
             | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
             | Did a whole generation really just "march off to war to put
             | their lives on the line"? While of course there were people
             | who volunteered, in the USA the majority of soldiers
             | fighting in World War II were conscripted - they went
             | because the state told them they had to go. And there was
             | still a lot of isolationist sentiment and reluctance to get
             | involved in the war in Europe even after Pearl Harbor. Are
             | the figures not similar for Canada?
        
               | magicsmoke wrote:
               | It doesn't matter, because history is probably one of the
               | most effective forms of social control. Think about how
               | complicated modern day events are and how difficult it is
               | to shift through the mountains of perspectives to
               | understand the whole picture. Now throw in decades of
               | time difference with fragmented and hard to decipher
               | primary documents, and you end up with a story that has
               | to be interpreted by expert historians/storytellers,
               | installed into the self-identity of generations of
               | students, and used to shame individuals into matching the
               | mythical sacrifices their ancestors supposedly took
               | without any complaint. It's miles ahead of organized
               | religion in terms of persuasiveness because any grain of
               | truth in the historical story is magnified into the only
               | possible truth without nuance or uncertainty. To go
               | against the stories we tell ourselves is to go against
               | all of society itself. If the body tells you to die in
               | stomach acid because that is your role as an epithelium
               | cell, and it's what generations of your ancestors have
               | done, what can you do but die doing your job?
               | 
               | There was a point where I really enjoyed reading
               | histories. Then I dug too deep and found too many
               | inconsistencies, and I realized that if I were to track
               | down every detail to the end I would go mad or worse, be
               | a history PhD. The only way I could recover that original
               | enjoyment was to treat every historical book as a work of
               | fiction and marvel at how well they're able to hack its
               | way into the social subsystem in our brain that allows us
               | to form societies.
        
               | 908B64B197 wrote:
               | The war was pitched in Canada as "a duty to defend
               | England, the throne and the motherland". This did not sit
               | well with French Canadians, who inhabited the country
               | since the 1500's and were heavily discriminated against
               | by the British[0][1].
               | 
               | Still that didn't stop heroes like Leo Major[3]
               | 
               | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_the_Parliame
               | nt_Buil....
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Acadia
               | ns#:~:t....
               | 
               | [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9o_Major
        
             | p1necone wrote:
             | The rest of the world didn't join world war 2 because of
             | the atrocities being committed by Nazi Germany, they joined
             | because Germany started invading neighboring countries.
        
               | slashdot2008 wrote:
               | Thanks for bringing this to my attention
               | 
               | >A major turning point in Nazi policy toward Jews was the
               | coordinated attacks by the Sturmabteilung (or SA, the
               | original paramilitary wing of the Nazi Party) against
               | Jews and Jewish institutions and businesses throughout
               | Germany and Austria on November 9-10, 1938 - an event
               | known as Kristallnacht or the Night of the Broken Glass,
               | due to the large amount of shattered windows at Jewish
               | properties in its aftermath. At least 91 Jews were killed
               | in the violence, and 30,000 were arrested and interned in
               | concentration camps (but not extermination camps). Over
               | 900 synagogues and 7,000 Jewish businesses were severely
               | damaged or destroyed.
               | 
               | https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/holocaust-remembrance-
               | day/whe...
        
             | sch wrote:
             | In Canada, the term to search for is not "draft", but
             | "conscription". You will see that there is resistance to
             | conscription regularly through the nation's history. (And
             | it certainly used to be part of the history that was taught
             | to us in Ontario.)
        
               | slashdot2008 wrote:
               | absolutely there is a resistance to conscription in
               | Canada, but was there a resistance to going to war or did
               | everyone sign up due to duty and social pressure to "do
               | the right thing"?
        
         | hetspookjee wrote:
         | It indeed is very interesting. I still wonder when the news
         | came out that Europe received wigs sourced from Uyghur hair,
         | how lax the response actually was. Here in the Netherlands the
         | then minister announced they were unable to provide any more
         | transparancy on the whereabouts of packaging because they
         | argument was made that it would be in conflict with the duty of
         | confidentiality of the customs. Sure the wigs reached some
         | traction, but nothing was done.
         | 
         | Can you imagine how the world would respond if someone was
         | selling wigs sourced from Jews from concentration camps? No way
         | that the confidentiality of customs would be weighing heavier
         | than.
         | 
         | I too wish Europe would take a stronger stance against China,
         | but unfortunately the immense dependency of consumerism made
         | possible by China's cheap labor makes that a very unpopular
         | move. I find the analogy with climate change rather strong as
         | well: To make the actual change necessary, people will have to
         | change some habits. To hold your moral ground against China you
         | will have to accept that prices of products will rise,
         | similarly that if you want to stop polluting everything, you
         | have to accept that stuff will become more expensive as not
         | polluting everything simply just costs more. Dumping whatever
         | toxins you have on your hands is cheaper than actually getting
         | rid of it in the right way, and so on.
         | 
         | I believe that whatever succesful strategy to combat climate
         | change en masse will be the same strategy to combat these moral
         | blindfolds for economic gains, and in the end I believe it's
         | tackling the problem at the source: lower prices of production
         | in the local environment to lesser the dependency on China.
        
       | Leary wrote:
       | 2020: Nike cancelled by Trump supporters
       | 
       | 2021: Nike cancelled by China
        
       | mkolodny wrote:
       | In case anyone's not aware of what's happening in Xinjiang, this
       | is a great Last Week Tonight episode about it:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17oCQakzIl8
        
         | hungryhobo wrote:
         | Here is also a great first hand resource:
         | https://youtu.be/4N385vKhXYQ
        
       | 88840-8855 wrote:
       | Skechers report - no forced labour in Xinjiang MUJI - no forced
       | labour in Xinjiang nike - no forced labour in Xinjiang adidas -
       | no forced labour in Xinjiang
       | 
       | At the same time this whole Xinjiang stuff reminds me of dozens
       | of destibalization operations by the Americans in countless
       | contries.
       | 
       | I went to Hong Kong in 2019 during the protests to join them and
       | to see with my own eyes what was going on. I met with the
       | protesters and spoke with many of them.
       | 
       | It was NOT the same what the media was reporting here.
       | 
       | Once covid is over, I will travel to Xinjiang and also see for
       | myself, because I started to believe that this entire anti-China
       | movement is a very smart way of setting up of a new cold war.
        
         | paulryanrogers wrote:
         | Not sure I'd trust companies with a vested interest in denial
         | to communicate objective truth.
        
           | dj_gitmo wrote:
           | This is not an open and shut case. The organizations
           | reporting this, The Australian Strategic Policy
           | Institute(Aussie defense department), and The Victims Of
           | Communism Foundation(!), are not unbiased nor are their
           | methodologies uncontroversial.
        
             | SyzygistSix wrote:
             | The Australian Strategic Policy Institute is also funded by
             | the US State Dept, Raytheon, and Northrop Grumman.
             | 
             | I don't doubt there is genocide and repression in Xinjiang
             | but propaganda from propaganda outlets muddies the water.
        
           | hungryhobo wrote:
           | Could it be that the US is the one with vested interest?
        
             | katbyte wrote:
             | _everyone_ involved has vested interest, and china isn't
             | exactly allowing anyone to go take a look?
        
               | dj_gitmo wrote:
               | China has not restricted access to Xinjiang. You can
               | visit if you like. Most western visitors report that
               | security is high in some areas, but foreigners are
               | allowed to visit. Just walking around won't necessarily
               | tell you the whole story obviously, but the notion that
               | you can't visit is false.
               | https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang/wary-
               | of-xi...
               | 
               | Edit: I searched "visit Xinjiang" and found this from
               | 2021 https://www.lostwithpurpose.com/why-we-didnt-like-
               | traveling-...
        
       | sthnblllII wrote:
       | Does anyone remember when the US backed Sunni extremists in
       | Afghanistan to counter Soviet influence in the region?
       | 
       | http://www.historyisnowmagazine.com/blog/2021/3/7/how-americ...
       | 
       | Or when the US backed Sunni extremists in Syria to destabilize
       | Bashar Al Assad and provoke regime change?
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore
       | 
       | Or when the US provided air support for Sunni extremists in Libya
       | (the "No Fly Zone") to topple the government of Colonel Ghadafi?
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack
       | 
       | Why is the US media so concerned with Uygur rights and so
       | unconcerned with Palestinian rights?
       | 
       | https://ifamericansknew.org/
        
         | amznthrowaway5 wrote:
         | All true, still doesn't excuse the Uyghur stuff.
        
         | powerapple wrote:
         | No jobs for 13 million Uygurs, hoping that they will overthrow
         | the government. The same thing US is hoping to achieve in NK
         | and Iran.
         | 
         | I don't trust these NGOs, especially after watched the Netflix
         | documentary about fishing. It is just another way for someone
         | from a well connected family to make money and fell good.
        
           | monocasa wrote:
           | Or even if they can't overthrow their government, at least
           | destabilize the province enough to be a thorn in China's side
           | as they try to push their belt and road initiative. It'll be
           | hard for China to require increased security out of their
           | partner countries when they don't have their own house in
           | order, with Xinjiang being the entry point for the road in
           | China.
        
         | hd4 wrote:
         | Another 'whatabout' to criticism of China. This happens
         | literally every single time there's a thread critical of China
         | here. Every single time.
        
           | monocasa wrote:
           | It's not whataboutism to show that these sorts of claims when
           | coming from the US tend be from a dishonest perspective, with
           | larger geopolitical goals and outright fabrications in the
           | claims themselves.
        
         | dunefox wrote:
         | Whataboutism at its finest. Nice try, Winnie.
        
         | lucian1900 wrote:
         | Particularly since ETIM, the terrorist group responsible for a
         | string of deadly attacks in China, has links to both Saudi
         | Arabia and the NED (a CIA front). The same group sent thousands
         | of fighters to Syria to fight on the side of ISIS.
        
           | sthnblllII wrote:
           | Correct. To be clear, I don't support genocide (as if that
           | needs to be said) but the US media demonization of China is
           | obviously geopolitical motivated and if its as successful at
           | convincing the American public as Iraq's "WMDs" were, it
           | could eventually be used as a causus beli.
        
             | redisman wrote:
             | The US doesn't want war with China. Especially not for the
             | human rights of muslims. US and China both reap the
             | majority of the rewards of the current system of trade. Why
             | would either country want hell on earth as opposed to the
             | status quo?
        
               | lucian1900 wrote:
               | The US's domination is based on the petrodollar. China,
               | Iran, Russia, Venezuela (and in the past Libya,
               | Afghanistan, etc.) started to trade (particularly oil)
               | using other currencies. Even the EU is headed that way
               | with both Iran and Russia.
               | 
               | It is in the interests of US and allied monopolies
               | (especially oil) to prevent this at all costs, since it
               | would remove the main tool for extracting
               | disproportionate profit from the impoverished world and
               | enforcing sanctions on anyone that resists.
        
               | redisman wrote:
               | I don't think that's true. Sure the petrodollar might be
               | a small boost but it's hardly what's propping up the
               | super power status. The US has a ton of soft and hard
               | power still.
               | 
               | Military, internal market, businesses, banks, the justice
               | system, etc are all orders of magnitude more important
               | for the hegemony
        
               | sudosysgen wrote:
               | The trend of the status quo is for the US to lose
               | hegemony.
               | 
               | The US _REALLY_ doesn 't want to lose hegemony. If you
               | read between the lines of what Pompeo or Blinken this is
               | a great fear of the US.
               | 
               | This is why the status quo is not acceptable for the US.
               | The US will not let go of the very enviable position as
               | global top dog easily.
        
       | heavyset_go wrote:
       | Strange how these billion dollar companies keep getting tricked
       | into innocently profiting from slave labor.
       | 
       | It seems to me like the only way for a company to know if forced
       | labor is used in the production of the goods they sell is for
       | someone else to catch them red-handed.
        
         | mangix wrote:
         | Why do you think they're getting tricked?
        
           | client4 wrote:
           | The previous comment is thinly veiled sarcasm.
        
       | Flatcircle wrote:
       | This is probably gonna get messy once the top of CCP see this.
        
         | ComputerGuru wrote:
         | They already did and it already has. (This isn't new.)
        
         | ohazi wrote:
         | This wouldn't have been published unless that was an explicit
         | goal. But Nike's strategy doesn't seem particularly effective,
         | and the outcome is predictable.
         | 
         | Top CCP brass will be outraged at the insinuation that anything
         | disreputable is going on, will drone on about "how dare Nike
         | try to shame the honorable reputation of the virtuous and hard-
         | working and well-meaning and morally super great Chinese
         | people," will probably accuse Nike of anti-Chinese racism, and
         | then will try to "Cancel Nike" within China and in their New
         | Silk Road sphere of influence (i.e. Economic Sanctions with
         | Chinese Characteristics).
         | 
         | You can't call out a bully that obsesses over appearances and
         | feigns outrage like this. If you've ever had the misfortune of
         | working with someone like this, you'll know that calling
         | bullshit on them doesn't work. They'll take offense, they'll
         | throw a fit, they'll sabotage and self destruct. It's juvenile
         | and exhausting, but they just can't accept that you're not
         | buying their crap. It's the same story here. Antagonizing
         | doesn't work.
         | 
         | We need to find another way to exert pressure on China and the
         | CCP that doesn't immediately trigger this "embarrassed and
         | outraged" response. At work, you might pretend to be this
         | bully's friend, feed them a different idea, convince them that
         | it's their idea, let them champion this idea, make a big show
         | of everybody praising them for how brilliant it is, etc. (and
         | then look for a new job, because that's fucking exhausting
         | too).
         | 
         | The stakes are really high here. A bully like this at work that
         | has power and can't be fired can destroy the company, but this
         | bully has nukes and wants to invade Taiwan. If they _really_
         | start to feel like the entire world is trying to shame them, it
         | 's going to end in disaster.
        
           | indigochill wrote:
           | > ...you might pretend to be this bully's friend, feed them a
           | different idea, convince them that it's their idea...
           | 
           | I thought I'd read somewhere (but can't find the source now)
           | that around the Cold War or thereabouts, trade with China was
           | seen as a way of "exporting capitalism" to undermine support
           | for communism there. If so, that... hasn't worked.
           | 
           | I'm not convinced the west actually has any leverage on
           | China. They own the US's debt, they have access to rare earth
           | metals necessary for computer manufacture, and they're the
           | backbone of worldwide manufacturing. Any pressure applied
           | (trade sanctions?) will just come back the other direction
           | (oh no, actually we need that trade to maintain our way of
           | life).
        
             | NicoJuicy wrote:
             | China has been chosen as the manufacturer of the western
             | world.
             | 
             | While it's a big thing they need, I'm not convinced that it
             | is impossible to shift a lot of that influence to India.
             | Who would probably make a better partner ( not sure).
             | 
             | Other than that, I don't see much options.
        
             | ohazi wrote:
             | > If so, that... hasn't worked.
             | 
             | Yeah, I think the "pretend you're on their side" strategy
             | might work once or twice before they're onto you, so if you
             | can't get them permanently out of the way by then, you're
             | finished.
             | 
             | > I'm not convinced the west actually has any leverage on
             | China.
             | 
             | Unfortunately, I think I agree. I'm not convinced the debt
             | thing matters very much, but as things stand, we are hosed
             | without China's manufacturing base, and double plus hosed
             | if TSMC is captured or destroyed as a result of a Taiwan
             | attack.
        
             | dnautics wrote:
             | > They own the US's debt
             | 
             | Currently the world leader in US debt holding is not china,
             | but japan.
             | 
             | > actually we need that trade to maintain our way of life
             | 
             | Currently the number 1 trading partner with the US is
             | Mexico, not china. The US economy is overwhelmingly
             | domestic, too with something like 10% via foreign trade.
             | And china's labor costs no longer make it competitive in
             | terms of "making the average us resident's prices low".
             | 
             | The place that will get screwed is europe, which DOES do a
             | ton of trade with China, as we will see in the upcoming
             | months with the closure of the suez (most us trade does not
             | use the suez, only about 10% of oil from saudia arabia, and
             | most us oil production has shifted to domestic, IIRC it's
             | like 5% foreign or something like that)
        
           | mycologos wrote:
           | > Top CCP brass will be outraged at the insinuation that
           | anything disreputable is going on, will drone on about "how
           | dare Nike try to shame the honorable reputation of the
           | virtuous and hard-working and well-meaning and morally super
           | great Chinese people,"
           | 
           | Tangential, but can any native Mandarin speaker chime in on
           | whether the translations of CCP communications -- which, like
           | the parent comment's hypothetical example, often read with
           | the screechy yet formal outrage of, like, the king's devoted
           | manservant -- are actually accurate? The only other thing I
           | can think of like that is communications from North Korea. I
           | have to imagine it's deliberate on _somebody 's_ part.
        
             | magicsmoke wrote:
             | Part of it might just be that the CCP's translators don't
             | have a good grasp of English and end up picking unfortunate
             | translations.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_C
             | h...
             | 
             | This is better translated as "damaged how the Chinese
             | people feel about..." but instead comes off as the Chinese
             | people having the emotional tolerance of a grade schooler.
             | Unfortunately, it seems it was actually first used by state
             | media in 1959 instead of originating from a foreign
             | translation of the Chinese statement.
        
               | ohazi wrote:
               | Wow, your translation is enlightening... Thanks!
               | 
               | I find it hilarious that this _phrase_ , of all things,
               | has a Wikipedia article -- I guess that just illustrates
               | how notably ridiculous it sounds outside of China. I
               | wonder how much damage that disconnect has caused over
               | the years.
        
       | RyanShook wrote:
       | It's easy to make excuses like "we don't source from the forced
       | labor part of the country" or "the whole world's supply chain is
       | tied to China." Both statements are true but when we consider how
       | we're indirectly supporting a country that is actively committing
       | crimes against humanity it has to make us stop and do some
       | serious soul searching.
       | 
       | When it was obvious China's wages were below minimum wage in the
       | US I said that's free markets at work. But what's happening in
       | Xinjiang isn't anywhere close to free market labor. It's the
       | opposite and I keep trying to but can't think of any excuse for
       | it.
        
         | ithkuil wrote:
         | The danger of soul searching is that you might find none
        
         | chadcmulligan wrote:
         | There's the Capitalist peace theory - countries with strong
         | trade won't fight each other - its bad for business.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_peace
        
         | Natsu wrote:
         | That's the thing, it is hard to disengage. I know that the
         | China sanctions seem to have helped move that along
         | economically, but it's hard to even know where every little
         | thing is sourced from and so much is done in China.
         | 
         | But I do know that, at least for my shoes, they were made by
         | Tim & Mary, not by someone toiling in a factory with nets to
         | keep them from jumping out the window. It's not much, but it's
         | something.
        
         | onethought wrote:
         | Much like prison labour in the US right?
         | 
         | But no one seems to care about that.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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