[HN Gopher] Why did Alibaba's Jack Ma disappear for three months?
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Why did Alibaba's Jack Ma disappear for three months?
Author : nomy99
Score : 60 points
Date : 2021-03-24 20:31 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
| em500 wrote:
| It seems everything old is new again. Wikipedia on
| Kremlinology[1]: During the Cold War, lack of
| reliable information about the country forced Western analysts to
| "read between the lines" and to use the tiniest tidbits, such as
| the removal of portraits, the rearranging of chairs, positions at
| the reviewing stand for parades in Red Square, the choice of
| capital or small initial letters in phrases such as "First
| Secretary", the arrangement of articles on the pages of the party
| newspaper Pravda and other indirect signs to try to understand
| what was happening in internal Soviet politics. [...]
| In the German language, such attempts acquired the somewhat
| derisive name "Kreml-Astrologie" (Kremlin Astrology), hinting at
| the fact that its results were often vague and inconclusive, if
| not outright wrong.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremlinology#Techniques
| mhh__ wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RYAN The East could be just as
| mental - e.g. they were apparently convinced the first strike
| was coming because the lights were on in Whitehall later than
| usual (As you may have already guessed it was the cleaners)
| baybal2 wrote:
| And to anybody moderately knowledgeable of how the Union
| worked, and I mean people who lived there, it sounds more
| that RYAN was Andropow selling his political clientele the
| idea than it being purely a delusion, but who knows.
|
| The few hawks (the army was probably the most pacifist part
| of the system, ironically) in the Union's army were more
| happy to hear that a war, and demise are coming, and be
| reassured of their continued usefulness to the regime, than
| being stated the obvious fact that the country is more likely
| go belly up because of Union's permanent economic crisis
| getting ever more severe.
|
| To such people starting a war, and a collective suicide was
| preferable, and a more comfortable thing to think about, than
| to face the reality of the need to replace the political
| leadership, and this is the real insanity.
| gammalost wrote:
| I think this is a good example of how terrible western media is
| when it comes to reporting about countries commonly seen as
| "against us".
|
| Take one fact (Jack Ma said a thing), mention something out of
| the ordinary (him "disappearing"), declare him dead or in prison.
|
| Another example of this wild assumtion is when media reported
| that North Korea simply dealt with corona by shooting the one
| infected person.
| pjfin123 wrote:
| Are there any good news sources for following/understanding
| what's going on in China? Reading the state media has obvious
| issues but reading defector media also isn't going to represent
| how most people in China actually think.
| bmitc wrote:
| What do you mean by "going on"?
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| He spent 3 months on retreat reading "The Governance of China"
| which I believe is a not so easy to digest as the little red
| book.
| nom wrote:
| The answer is: "PRC".
|
| Not a satisfying answer and doesn't answer this specific question
| in detail but we all know that's at the core of what has
| happened. It leaves much room for imagination though.
| MangoCoffee wrote:
| Big Pooh, not happy?
| soneca wrote:
| Best answer to the clickbaity title question that the article
| could provide:
|
| _" "Apparently he just kept a very low profile, which was really
| the best thing he could do," says Ms Boutrup."_
| loceng wrote:
| That's a moot point: the actual issue is we know he doesn't
| have the freedom to say whatever may be on his mind.
| justicezyx wrote:
| That's of course true, universally, across the globe, for
| anyone who had similar status.
|
| Oh, except, of course, none other, the Elon Musk...
| ASalazarMX wrote:
| All of them have enough competent lawyers to tell them
| where's the danger, and how to stay away from it. Elon just
| enjoys wandering closer to it.
| justicezyx wrote:
| Of course, Jack has a bunch of advisors who told him what
| to do as well. It's just that in China the system do not
| give them a title of "lawyers".
| africanboy wrote:
| I imagine that nobody in that position is actually free to
| say whatever may be on their mind.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| Which, is basically what you would expect a CEO of a western
| country if the business deal they spent years on failed. China
| is at fault for it failing, but this reaction is common
| anywhere.
| HenryBemis wrote:
| My first and only thought on his going dark was 're-education'. I
| remember the case of Fan Bingbing [0] that she disappeared for 3
| months.
|
| It so happens that Ma reappeared after 3 months. Hmmm... I see a
| pattern here.
|
| That should tell us that in China your money doesn't count. State
| gives life and more important State takes life (or borrows your
| for a 3 months intensive re-education).
|
| I don't know much about torture.. what type of wounds disappear
| after 3 months?
|
| [0]: https://abcnews.go.com/International/fan-bingbing-
| mysterious...
| throwaway4good wrote:
| So why did he disappear? We don't know. Let's ask some people who
| don't know either. Maybe they can speculate. Let's hear what they
| want to say: He wanted some time off. Communism is bad.
| not2b wrote:
| China hasn't been communist for a long time, though it is still
| ruled by a party that calls itself communist. Under communism
| the state owns the means of production and distribution, there
| aren't private citizen billionaires in charge of major sectors.
| The current system is closer to fascism than communism, where a
| single party and its corporate cronies run the show.
| SllX wrote:
| Specifically the corporate cronies are party members and
| subordinate to government officials.
|
| The government doesn't need to own the cow, or the meat
| processor when they can just own you.
| mjevans wrote:
| My informal observation suggests that description matches
| most authoritarian regimes I'm aware of. Possibly also
| including contemporary Russia. Similar political ideology
| might explain the outer space co-operation between China and
| Russia.
| hintymad wrote:
| > China hasn't been communist for a long time
|
| This shows how wrong people can get about China. It's easy to
| label a country with things like "communism" or "socialism"
| or what not, but it's not the reality. Can people own private
| property in China? Check. Can people start a company under
| the rule of law? Check. Do private enterprises compete with
| state-owned? Check. Do private enterprises win in market?
| Check. Do companies resolve their conflicts via rules of law?
| Check. Does government, to a large degree (how large is
| arguable), rely on market to allocate resources? Check. Does
| government enforce ration? Nope. Does the government plan all
| the economic activities in a centralized fashion? Not any
| more. Does the government mandate a specific way of
| allocating wealth? Not any more. Does the government insist
| that the state or the people own everything? Nope. Does the
| government limit the freedom of its citizens to move around?
| Yes and no. One can choose where to live and work, but those
| with a Hukou will have much better benefits. Is China a
| totalitarian state? Most likely. Is it a communist country
| NOW? You've gotta be joking.
| gumby wrote:
| He should have said he was "hiking the Appalachian Trail"
| microtherion wrote:
| "hiking the Great Wall" might be more regionally appropriate.
| gumby wrote:
| I actually did a small search for long (~3500 km)
| backpacking trails in China but didn't find anything
| useful. "Great Wall" would have been a good choice.
| throw10123213 wrote:
| > "Not only is a company responsible to do what the party
| demands, but they also can't admit to doing that if they're
| asked." > > But others have suggested it is unfair to judge
| China's tech giants on the same basis as those from developed
| countries.
|
| I found the ending of the article delightful. First, because the
| US has secret warrants for IT companies too, so hearing this out
| loud wouldn't really be a big surprise. Second, because China
| still pretends to be an "undeveloped" country? Come on! How long
| can this card be played.
| angio wrote:
| Event more ironic considering this UK government use of gag
| orders to silence companies.
| roflulz wrote:
| the average annual income in China is something around $12K. I
| would not say it is developed, just because the top percentile
| of the population seem to live lavish lives.
|
| did a quick look - median income is around $4K-6K a year. there
| is no way that can be compared to any 1st world country.
| http://www.stats.gov.cn/english/PressRelease/202101/t2021011...
|
| According to this list - China's median income is comparable to
| Bolivia, Libya, Dominican Republic, Paraguay, etc. Would you
| list all those as developed countries?
| https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in...
|
| And according to this GDP Per Capita list - China ranks 73.
| Don't believe the racist propaganda trying to make you fear
| China.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PP...
| africanboy wrote:
| on one hand I agree with you, on the other hand it's very
| hard to apply the same kpis we use for other countries, given
| the size of China.
|
| For example the city of Beijing has the same GDP of Sweden
| and Belgium and it's not far from the city of London.
| [deleted]
| baybal2 wrote:
| > Second, because China still pretends to be an "undeveloped"
| country? Come on! How long can this card be played.
|
| Well it is. I dare you to go to China to places where most
| Chinese wouldn't go.
|
| Half of the country still lives in places you can't twist your
| tongue to call cities.
|
| China's biggest cities are a prime case of fancy Potemkin
| villages. It's a state policy to maintain "the face of the
| country" at any expense, which may includes things as
| ridiculous as banning motorcycles to not reveal that people
| don't have money for cars, fining people for using cloth lines
| if their windows face major streets, or tourists having their
| photo film confiscated because they shot photos in less than
| sightly places.
|
| This is much akin to how USSR ran a showy semblance of a
| civilized life in Moscow, at an enormous expense to its
| economy, to rather successfully fool the West into believing in
| USSR's relative prosperity.
|
| If you think that ideology talks is what sets off thin skinned
| Chinese political establishment, then you haven't seen their
| reaction when somebody evokes the gravest insult of calling
| them poor.
| CapriciousCptl wrote:
| Charlie Munger summarized capitalism in China at the Daily
| Journal annual meeting last month--
|
| "A lot of people assume that since England led the industrial
| revolution and it always had free speech that free speech is
| required to have a booming economy as prescribed by Adam Smith.
| But the Chinese have proved you don't need free speech to have a
| wonderful economy. They just copied Adam Smith and left out the
| free speech and it worked fine for them."
|
| around the 46 minute mark--
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp4CvjNw-9Y
| tomarr wrote:
| Perhaps England had some form of free speech but it certainly
| was not the 'American standard'. There has always been limits -
| and fairly extensive when it comes to topics posing a threat to
| the establishment, such as Ireland and the colonies.
| VectorLock wrote:
| >They just copied Adam Smith and left out the free speech and
| it worked fine for them.
|
| Seems to be a tried and true formula.
| benatkin wrote:
| It seems to work within an individual business as well. For
| Coinbase to come out and say, no political speech unless it's
| the sort of politics we agree with, and to still be thriving,
| means it can be curtailed at least somewhat without serious
| repercussions.
| txsoftwaredev wrote:
| Considering in England you can be fined/jailed for speech they
| are far from having free speech protection.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United...
| antattack wrote:
| Wow, what a sellout. Who is 'them'?
| jaggirs wrote:
| > But others have suggested it is unfair to judge China's tech
| giants on the same basis as those from developed countries.
|
| This is incredibly out of touch. How is China not part of the
| 'developed' countries? Some people seem to think we are still in
| 2010.
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