[HN Gopher] Phthalates Threaten Humanity's Ability to Reproduce
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       Phthalates Threaten Humanity's Ability to Reproduce
        
       Author : mustafa_pasi
       Score  : 55 points
       Date   : 2021-03-24 20:10 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (theintercept.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (theintercept.com)
        
       | adamcstephens wrote:
       | At least this article doesn't make the absurd claim a recent
       | Guardian article did. That reproduction could go to zero.
        
         | mustafa_pasi wrote:
         | That is why I chose this one. The news is making the rounds
         | again under the title, "Human penises are shrinking because of
         | pollution", but unfortunately all articles from the major news
         | sites are of very poor quality.
        
           | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
           | Wow, what a title. It's like it was hand crafted to get the
           | toxically masculine on board with environmental protection.
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | What does that have to do with toxic masculinity?
        
               | tenebrisalietum wrote:
               | It might be that toxic masculinity is correlated with an
               | obsession over penis size or sometimes at least talking
               | about it, or thinking that it matters when it doesn't.
        
               | nielsbot wrote:
               | Guessing it's because "Huge penises are more manly!"
               | ergo, Save our penises! ergo, Stop pollution!
        
               | klyrs wrote:
               | Very rough caricature: nothing is scary
               | (including/especially harm to others) until it threatens
               | the wellbeing of one's penis.
        
       | trhway wrote:
       | >biological factors don't necessarily affect people's genders
       | 
       | then what gender is if not biology? Does it mean it is nurture
       | instead of or as a significant addition to nature?
        
         | DoktorDelta wrote:
         | As I understand it, Gender is the socio-cultural aspect, and
         | Sex is the biological term.
        
           | monkeycantype wrote:
           | But they aren't, at least in our present culture decoupled,
           | so people have a sense of whether the feel aligned in form
           | and physiology with their gender identity. We're going to
           | find out in future decades as people experiment with gender
           | identity and physical transformation how much this can be
           | deconstructed, how much of what we think of as gender is an
           | association of things that often went together in the past,
           | how much is about social perception, how much is about your
           | own feeling of inhabiting your body, and how much is a free
           | space for you to author
        
             | sudosysgen wrote:
             | They aren't completely decoupled, no. But historically
             | gender has varied wildly while sex hasn't, so it's
             | intrinsically significantly decoupled from sex itself.
             | Since the extent of that coupling is currently unknown the
             | scientists provide an answer that reflects the uncertainty.
             | 
             | What we know for sure is that it's at least significantly
             | decoupled, and almost certainly not completely decoupled.
        
           | vehemenz wrote:
           | That's one way to cash out the distinction, but "gender" can
           | also mean sex. This usage (at least in English) dates back to
           | the 13th century.
           | 
           | At best, it's ambiguous. You can't really know what someone
           | means by "gender" without context, such as the mentioning of
           | the sex/gender distinction. "Gender" has become somewhat of
           | an auto-acronym.
        
         | strogonoff wrote:
         | Presumably it's about the fact that the gender one identifies
         | with can differ from their biological sex (e.g., a person born
         | as male may identify as female).
         | 
         | On one hand, an argument can be made that the freedom to
         | identify with a gender different from one's biological sex
         | enables individuals to live more fulfilled lives that are not
         | defined by gender stereotypes they'd otherwise be forced to
         | live within.
         | 
         | On the other hand, an argument can be made that the distinction
         | between gender identity and biological sex actually strengthens
         | gender stereotypes and potentially hurts equality (e.g., women
         | were historically supposed to be soft and pretty and under-
         | achieving, so a female who doesn't want to fit that stereotype
         | would feel pressured to identify as a male rather than be her
         | own unique person), and that there's no clear consensus
         | regarding a self-sufficient definition of what a gender is that
         | doesn't recursively involve biological sex.
        
         | caconym_ wrote:
         | Biology affects biological sex. For most people this means XX
         | or XY chromosomes. There are probably some nuances of
         | expression and phenotype in there too, and obviously some
         | people's chromosomal situation does not fall into either of
         | those buckets.
         | 
         | It's likely not possible to find widespread agreement on this,
         | but I think the modern concept of gender is more or less about
         | how you align with the traditional male and female roles in
         | society (doesn't have to be in the binary sense). I don't think
         | there's a known _right answer_ for how much of this alignment
         | comes down to  "nature", and how much to "nurture". What's
         | clear is that some people do not mentally identify with the sex
         | and/or gender labels and/or roles that their chromosomes would
         | traditionally assign to them.
         | 
         | The "biology doesn't care about your feelings" arguments are
         | stupid because they don't amount to any more than excuses for
         | ignorance--biology obviously can't fully explain gender as in
         | gender roles. In fact, pretty much all the arguments I've seen
         | against accepting transgender folks' identities rely on being
         | obtuse about definitions to some degree.
        
           | notsureaboutpg wrote:
           | >biology obviously can't fully explain gender as in gender
           | roles
           | 
           | Biology also doesn't explain the racial roles American
           | society used to have when it was segregated, but race is
           | still biological and no amount of growing up around the
           | conditions which are stareotyped as belonging to a certain
           | race or speaking in the dialect a certain race speaks or
           | feeling that you truly are of a certain race actually makes
           | you of that race.
        
           | trhway wrote:
           | >accepting transgender folks' identities
           | 
           | that is the issue of social policy (i'm for accepting of
           | whatever identities people have, whether it has scientific
           | basis or not) while the article is supposedly about
           | scientific findings
           | 
           | >obtuse about definitions to some degree
           | 
           | that is my point. It is an science related article and thus
           | it is the context where significant degree of precision and
           | obtuseness with definitions is kind of expected. Slipping in
           | such a blanket imprecise statement is what i tried to point
           | to.
        
             | sudosysgen wrote:
             | Gender is an issue of social policy, psychology,
             | neuropsychology, and biology. Sex is an issue of science.
             | 
             | That's why science on gender always has small degrees of
             | precision and is obtuse. It's moreso a question of soft
             | science than hard science.
        
             | caconym_ wrote:
             | I don't really think it's inappropriately imprecise,
             | though. It's just an acknowledgement that the link between
             | biological sex and gender self-identification is not well
             | understood at this time.
        
           | xxxyyjj5 wrote:
           | > rely on being obtuse about definitions to some degree
           | 
           | I don't think there's anything obtuse with associating the
           | terms woman and man with their respective gametes.
           | 
           | Gametes serve the teleology of reproduction, through which we
           | get the continuation of human life.
           | 
           | Gametes don't exist on a spectrum. They're a binary.
           | 
           | This is basic science.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | monkmartinez wrote:
       | Did she really replace AGD or anogenital distance, with Taint and
       | Gooch? My goodness, I laughed like a 12 year old when I read
       | that!
        
         | nielsbot wrote:
         | "gooch"? Am I a square for never having heard that?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | astrange wrote:
       | A counterpoint thread to the part about sperm count:
       | https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1372178337016201224
       | 
       | Some points are that it's going back up again and is largely
       | caused by poor sleep health. Beyond that, I haven't looked this
       | up but what is the actual relationship between lower sperm count
       | and fewer children? I mean, you have maybe 2-3 children and
       | millions of sperm, surely they are not linearly related.
       | 
       | Effects on mothers could matter a lot more, but also maybe they
       | just don't want to do it.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-24 23:01 UTC)