[HN Gopher] The world is facing a coffee deficit
___________________________________________________________________
The world is facing a coffee deficit
Author : benryon
Score : 91 points
Date : 2021-03-24 18:26 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bloombergquint.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bloombergquint.com)
| cletus wrote:
| So cue the US telling developing countries "hey you can grow
| coffee instead of coca/opium and make a good living", a large
| number of farmers growing coffee, the supply gets flooded, prices
| drop and the farmers switch back to the coca/opium harvests that
| no doubt made them much more money anyway.
|
| The circle of life.
| bregma wrote:
| There's a shortage of shipping containers for the cocaine and
| opium, too.
| p1necone wrote:
| How often are those shipped in containers as opposed to DIY
| submarines?
| angry_octet wrote:
| Oh all the time. But global freight is so huge, only a tiny
| portion can be checked. It has to make its way to a
| shipping source before it can enter the legitimate supply
| chain though.
|
| Although 3D x-rays are used extensively for scanning
| freight, it it still easy to smuggle high value product.
| jeffbee wrote:
| I would have thought that artificial opioids like fentanyl
| would have wrecked the poppy market already.
| tehjoker wrote:
| I recall reading it's several orders of magnitude more potent
| and its typical use is elephant tranquilizer. Far higher
| potency means it's easy for a small mistake in measurement to
| result in a really high dose. I would imagine that seems
| risky even to people accustomed to heroin.
| jeffreyrogers wrote:
| I don't think heroin users get a choice. My understanding
| is a lot of the street supply is already cut with fentanyl.
| Applejinx wrote:
| Recovering addict here, couple decades clean: yes, that's
| been true for years. If you are in touch with the using-
| addict population, for instance you're in recovery and
| participate in meetings, you'd be certain of this.
|
| It's weird when maybe a double-digit percentage of the
| people you know, wind up dead (and this is before covid).
| When you include people you know, upset because people
| THEY know have overdosed and died, then yeah: the effects
| of fentanyl are pretty damn apparent. People will not be
| addicts cautiously. Even if they think that's what
| they're being, they're mistaken.
| [deleted]
| mikestew wrote:
| According to TFA, sourcing _coffee_ isn't the problem. It was
| in the first paragraph in case you missed it on your first
| reading.
| throwaway823882 wrote:
| Doesn't matter. If they can't export/ship/sell it, then they
| don't make money, so they go back to growing drugs.
| wobbly_bush wrote:
| > Marex Spectron this month increased its estimate for a
| global coffee deficit to 10.7 million bags in 2021-22,
| compared with its previous projection of 8 million bags,
| citing lower Brazilian arabica output after adverse weather
| damaged crops. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. said in a report that
| if production in Central America doesn't improve in coming
| years, the market will enter a structural deficit given the
| rebound in demand
| cgb223 wrote:
| I wish the article would actually go into _what_ is causing the
| container shortage
|
| Are they not manufacturing them? Prioritizing them elsewhere? Is
| it political?
|
| Anyone know what's going on?
| makomk wrote:
| For a start, a whole bunch of containers ended up stuck in
| locations where they wouldn't normally be and there's not
| enough return goods, and for some reason shipping companies
| aren't interested in carrying empty containers back on their
| return trips?
| ogre_codes wrote:
| Well for starters, there are lines of cargo ships outside of
| LA, 20-30 off the coast of LA right now. Typically it would be
| 1-2. That's something like 100,000 sitting idle right there.
| Then many of the storage facilities are also jam packed with
| containers too.
|
| Apparently we've all gone on a spending spree during COVID so
| more containers are simply out there filled with crap we've
| ordered and waiting for shipment, unloading, and return to the
| ports.
| poletopole wrote:
| Am I the only "lucky apple user" where I was randomly redirected
| to a cheezy malware site from 20 years ago?
| mint2 wrote:
| Nope, I also got some sort of browser hijacking redirect from
| their ad network. It's been a while since I've seen those.
| Kluny wrote:
| Oh no
| BrandoElFollito wrote:
| The graphs are horrible. By showing changes between 5.5 and 7.5M
| you have a rollercoaster. When you show the same graph between 0
| and 7.5M, it gets flatter and the huge changes maybe do not mean
| that much.
|
| This would get a 10/20 mark at my lecture.
| baron_harkonnen wrote:
| By the same logic we should print charts of heart rates and
| body temperature from starting from 0. Regional temperature
| over time plots should always start from 0 kelvin, Google's
| stock price should displayed from 0 to 3000, etc.
|
| I don't know about you but I would be annoyed if my smart watch
| app displayed BPM starting at 0 making my changing heart rate
| an ignoreable fuzz.
|
| The idea that "charts should start at 0" is an absurd dogma
| that is immediately recognizable as such by anyone that has
| ever worked with data visualization to make decisions.
|
| A better guideline is to display a reasonable range that lets
| you see historically what has been possible with a bit of
| buffer. For relatively Guassian changes a few standard
| deviations is good.
|
| In general your limits should not be outside of the bounds of
| what is reasonably possible. Coffee trade is not going to 0
| anytime soon, and suggesting that visually is dishonest.
| BrandoElFollito wrote:
| > By the same logic we should print charts of heart rates and
| body temperature from starting from 0
|
| No. We do not want to prove anything here. The trend can be
| only within a range so that range should be used.
|
| > Regional temperature over time plots should always start
| from 0 kelvin
|
| If you discuss how wide the changes are - yes. But thi si not
| what you are looking at - you are looking at temperatures
| between -50C and +50C (taking the extremes) and this is also
| the reason why thermometers are scaled like that.
|
| > The idea that "charts should start at 0" is an absurd dogma
| that is immediately recognizable as such by anyone that has
| ever worked with data visualization to make decisions.
|
| Certainly. I believe that physicists and engineers who did
| actual research on actual data can be dismissed.
|
| > A better guideline is to display a reasonable range that
| lets you see historically what has been possible with a bit
| of buffer.
|
| It depends on what you want to show. If you want to show
| relative changes then plot relative changes. If you want to
| discuss absolute changes (which in the article do not make
| any sense) then you have to address the whole range. We are
| talking about millions of something, and that something can
| drop to zero.
|
| > For relatively Gaussian changes a few standard deviations
| is good.
|
| On what basis do you assume that you have a gaussian
| distribution? (I assume - of changes, form your comment)
|
| > In general your limits should not be outside of the bounds
| of what is reasonably possible
|
| A data scientist making a real analysis will look at what is
| reasonably possible, but possible full stop. This sets the
| ranges of observation. To take your first example, the only
| possible temperatures when dealing with a live body in
| ambient temperature is from, say, 17C to about 44C. Thi is
| the range that should be used when discussing "wild changes
| in temperature. And not a graph that goes from 36.5 to 37 and
| showing valleys and mountains and drawing conclusions from
| there.
|
| > Coffee trade is not going to 0 anytime soon, and suggesting
| that visually is dishonest
|
| What is visually dishonest is to show absolute changes and
| make any kind of comments on how important they are by not
| taking the possible values, especially when talking about
| values going down.
| IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
| Coffee is not very different than other commodities. Much of it
| is in trouble at the moment.
|
| Supply chains continue to be disrupted due to myriad of reasons.
| Its not only missing containers, you can argue they are still
| somewhat misplaces but its not just that - changing rules
| (COVID), changing borders (UK) , unstable financing (try to get
| money from any factor or revolver that is not a bank, good luck
| now), changing market tastes , changes even related to humans
| (unemployed disruptions along the supply chain workflow).
|
| There has been many unsung heroes from the pandemic but at least
| as far as USA is concerned, I am still amazed we can still buy
| stuff from amazon with 2 day delivery.
|
| (To wit - amazon also is not helping by limiting FBA inbound
| capacity to sellers)
|
| Spot prices are all over the place. It will be like this for a
| while.
| sombremesa wrote:
| `To wit` is more of an `id est` rather than an `albeit`, which
| is how it has incorrectly been used here.
|
| (I'm writing this for the benefit of the ESL folks, not so much
| as an admonishment)
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| So "to wit" ="namely" = "viz" but "ie"(id est) is appropriate
| when giving a simple example (vs a primary example) or an
| alternative wording? Albeit= nevertheless=however=on the
| other hand?
|
| Sorry, these shouldn't be equal signs-- no words are truly
| equal.
| graywh wrote:
| "i.e." is for giving clarification, not examples
|
| e.g. is for giving examples
|
| there are plenty of resources on the Internet to further
| explain this
| HPsquared wrote:
| There's probably a lot of money to be made solving these
| problems.
| dv_dt wrote:
| Also I think climate change will be a increasing player in
| events with global disruptions in food, commodities, and
| industrial goods. Global capitalism has relentlessly optimized
| for lowest cost, but with minimal to no margin for risks or
| resiliency.
| Retric wrote:
| Having a vast surplus is a very useful form of resiliency.
| For commodities surplus is equivalent to low prices.
| dv_dt wrote:
| How so? Low prices drive alternate suppliers out of
| business as well as cutting margin for players in the
| market from having buffers to deal with mitigations
| possibly needing capital cost investments to keep bringing
| commodities to market. e.g. if you have a temporary
| drought, does the farmer have enough profit such that they
| have savings or capital lines to buy temporary water supply
| to get your crop through the dry period, or money to access
| getting your customs setup for new markets that have had a
| shortage in the regular markets. Or access to buy or rent
| new containers in this case possibly.
| logshipper wrote:
| For anyone looking to read more on the container shortage
| problem, NYT recently published a great piece on it:
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/06/business/global-shipping....
| throwaway5752 wrote:
| For those that can't be bothered to read beyond the headline.
|
| _" global shortage of shipping containers that's upended the
| food trade."_
|
| Shipping container shortage.
| derefr wrote:
| This confuses me, as shipping containers seem... _really_ easy
| to produce. They 're not CPUs; you don't need a special fab.
| They're corrugated boxes made of welded cold-rolled steel.
| Pretty much every country -- every industry _in_ every country!
| -- should be able to scrape together the natural resources to
| make their own shipping containers. There should never be a
| shortage of supply of shipping containers, any more than there
| could have been a shortage in supply of, say, the hemp sacks
| used in bulk shipping in the 1700s. You need one? You make one!
|
| From the article:
|
| > Denmark's A.P. Moller-Maersk A/S, the world's largest
| shipping company, said containers _and charter vessels_ are
| temporarily unavailable for purchase or lease
|
| I have a feeling it's more about the ships. Shipbuilding is a
| pretty CapEx-intensive pursuit. Container production, not so
| much.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| It could be the same reason why toilet paper struggled so
| much.
|
| Sure it's super easy to produce, but do you want to be on the
| hook for whatever you spent ramping up production when the
| shortage disappears between 1 month and 1 year from now?
| danaliv wrote:
| Ports are congested too, which leaves ships (and their
| containers) stuck out at anchorages waiting to get in. Port
| of LA, for instance, has been bottlenecked for months.
|
| https://www.marketplace.org/2021/01/29/record-port-
| backups-h...
|
| https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/retailers-pay-more-to-fly-
| bi...
| post_break wrote:
| That feeling is the same thing with railcar shortages. They
| are super easy to produce. But no one wants to be stuck with
| them if there is a glut, only a few manufacturers of railcars
| and they don't scale like servers. They make a normal amount
| of railcars, and when they need more they can make what
| 10-20% more? And then since they are "easy" to produce they
| still might take weeks to months to finish because of parts
| they rely on all being strained as well.
| derefr wrote:
| > And then since they are "easy" to produce they still
| might take weeks to months to finish because of parts they
| rely on all being strained as well.
|
| I feel like a container factory would be a sensible thing
| to be vertically integrated: raw steel (or iron and
| carbon!) in; containers out; screws and bolts and any other
| needed stuff getting made during the process out of the
| same raw inputs. A lot like how IKEA's operation works
| (i.e. basically a vertically-integrated sawmill), but with
| metals.
|
| That approach doesn't _vertically_ scale very well, but the
| _techniques_ from it could be _horizontally_ scaled pretty
| easily across a number of industries if well-known. This is
| what I was on about with the hemp sacks: every industry
| _did_ used to make their own hemp sacks. It was easy, and
| the techniques and requirements were well-known, so every
| business that needed sacks just did what was necessary to
| make them, comparative advantage be damned. (Sort of like
| how every large factory today has its own machine shop, or
| how every modern building has its own internal water-
| treatment+recycling system.)
| rzzzt wrote:
| What do they ship raw steel in?
| hardtke wrote:
| There is not so much a shortage but instead the empty
| containers are in the wrong place. With the US stimulus coupled
| with the lack of ability of American consumers to consume
| services like travel, imports to the US have surged. They've
| started adding an extra layer of containers on ships coming
| from China and a bunch of them have fallen off. In the past we
| would fill some of the containers going back to China with
| agricultural goods, but now empty containers are essentially
| more valuable than filled containers. Here's a marketplace
| article on the situation:
| https://www.marketplace.org/2021/03/17/inflation-shipping-co...
| m463 wrote:
| they've known of this for a long time. The logistics folks have
| data for very accurate predictions:
|
| https://www.freightwaves.com/news/inside-californias-colossa...
|
| (from a few months ago)
| curmudgeon22 wrote:
| Plus crop problems in Brazil:
|
| Arabica-coffee futures in New York have risen about 24% since
| the end of October following the damage to Brazilian groves.
| wobbly_bush wrote:
| >In the facilities of Dinamo, one of Brazil's largest coffee
| warehouses operators, there's a lot of product stuck waiting for
| containers
|
| Can anyone comment on the cost difference to ship something from
| Brazil to US in containers vs as air cargo? Also, isn't shipping
| via trucks or trains an option?
| oetnxkdrlgcexu wrote:
| Shipping efficiency generally: Boats > trains > trucks > planes
|
| Aircraft are only used in time-sensitive situations. The
| standardized cargo container improved shipping efficiency, but
| in its absence boats are still the best method of
| transportation.
|
| The fact that they're waiting for the cargo containers means
| that it's costing them less to wait than other options. I
| imagine if they were desperate they could hire out some cruise
| liners and stuff them with coffee. They'd have to be loaded and
| unloaded by dockworkers though, not sure if any port would
| support that anymore...
| vinceguidry wrote:
| Others have commented on the Darien Gap, but generally
| speaking, maritime shipping is roughly 1/3 the cost of overland
| by rail.
|
| https://www.maritime-executive.com/editorials/comparing-mari...
| circumvent123 wrote:
| The Darien gap might be an issue there.
| Anarch157a wrote:
| Brazilian here. Most of the coffee production is in the south
| and south-east (Sao Paulo, Minas Gerais, Parana). To get the
| coffee in bulk to where it can cross the gap, it has to
| travel thru shitty roads that have more craters than the far
| side of the Moon and some that aren't paved at all.
|
| Then it gets to the Amazonas river. It's so wide, some
| Portuguese navigator tought it was a fresh water Sea. There's
| only one bridge conencting the city os Manaus in the north
| bank to south and sone ferries scattered all over.
|
| Then you have to cross half the Amazon jungle to get to a
| port in Colombia (Venezuela is not an option for obvious
| reasons).
|
| Tl;dr, the Darian Gap is the least of your problems if you
| want to move coffee by land from here to the US.
| cesarb wrote:
| Also Brazilian here, wouldn't an alternative path be to go
| even further southwest, leave the country, and only then
| move north more or less following the Pacific coast? That
| would both avoid all these shitty roads and remove the need
| to cross the Amazonas.
| oetnxkdrlgcexu wrote:
| Looking at google maps, it sort of looks like it goes
| from the jungle to the Andes to the Atacama dessert.
|
| I'm genuinely surprised at how impassible this all seems.
| especially the Andes.
| RandallBrown wrote:
| You can't really ship from Brazil to the US (or vice versa) by
| train or truck because there isn't a continuous land route
| between the Americas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_Gap
| Gravityloss wrote:
| In this age of remakes, this calls for a movie about the
| dangerous overland trip taken to deliver coffee through the
| Darien Gap, in the style of Sorcerer (1977):
| https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076740/ (which is already a
| third remake or so.)
| [deleted]
| jgalt212 wrote:
| too much cash, not enough stuff.
|
| inflation is coming.
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| Uh no people dont doubke their coffee consumption because they
| have more money
| jgalt212 wrote:
| I'm not talking about coffee, I'm talking about the missing
| pieces in the supply chain. There's too much cash, i.e.
| Bitcoin the moon, and not enough stuff (i.e. we are short the
| needed shipping containers to reboot the post COVID economy).
| It's gonna be like the years immediately after WW2. Everyone
| wants a car, but the factories have not fully moved back to
| making consumer goods.
| neckardt wrote:
| But if people have more money, wouldn't that mean producers
| could raise their prices and people would still be willing to
| pay it?
| gruez wrote:
| Only if they coordinate and act like a cartel. Otherwise
| it's a prisoner's dilemma situation where the party that
| doesn't raise prices gains market share.
| xoa wrote:
| No coordination needed in a supply limited scenario with
| sufficiently inelastic demand. That's not a prisoner's
| dilemma. In that case every single bag has multiple
| potential interested buyers, which means each supplier
| can individually have buyers bid against each other and
| see the sale price go up. Organization of course might
| let them do even better, but it's not necessary. There is
| no market share to be gained from the supplier point of
| view (though as the article says, those higher up the
| chain may have different motives and margins) because
| supply just can't be ramped up instantly with a good like
| coffee. It doesn't matter if a farmer would in principle
| like to have 10x as much to sell, they have what they
| grew, and could only respond to demand by increasing
| supply slowly (and there is the risk of overshoot). If
| they don't raise prices they're just leaving money on the
| table, since every bag will get bought.
| nostrademons wrote:
| That's where the supply shortage comes in. If lots of
| people have money but there's excess capacity in the
| market, nobody will raise prices because the firm that
| doesn't ramps up capacity and captures the excess market
| share. If lots of people have money but there's a supply
| shortage, the firm that refuses to raise prices lacks the
| excess capacity to capitalize on their consumer demand,
| and fails to gain market share.
| sdenton4 wrote:
| too much cash, not enough stuff.
|
| jobs are coming.
| luthfur wrote:
| I have been wondering what the root cause if this sudden
| container shortage. Found this blog post with an explanation:
| https://www.hillebrand.com/media/publication/where-are-all-t...
| mint2 wrote:
| This website's ad network is delivering browser hijacking ads. I
| haven't seen one of those for a long time.
| baxtr wrote:
| To give some hope to some of you: I stopped drinking coffee back
| in December. I was a heavy drinker before. I stopped because my
| stomach wouldn't stop being upset permanently, and I had a sore
| throat all the time. And no, I didn't drink cheap shit coffee,
| quite the opposite.
|
| It all vanished after I stopped drinking coffee. The first day
| was brutal, the second a bit better. A week later, I was fine.
| Now I drink green tea all day and feel quite good from a stomach
| perspective.
|
| And, I truly hope green tea is not transported on the same ships
| as coffee!
| zeku wrote:
| To give another perspective... I drink about 3 cups of coffee a
| day.
|
| When I quit cold turkey I have a headache so bad I can't do
| anything at all for 3 days or so, and on day 2 I am bedridden
| with flu like symptoms(ive tried quitting multiple times).
|
| My reaction to stopping is so severe, but I notice no issues
| while regularly consuming coffee other than I _need_ it 1 or so
| hours max after I wake or I will have a headache all day.
|
| I also feel low energy for weeks after stopping coffee.
| anonporridge wrote:
| I feel like people are slowly waking up to how insane our
| collective addiction to (and glorification of) caffeine
| actually is.
| Afton wrote:
| I feel that addictions are only a problem if they are a
| problem. As far as we can tell, non-crazy-quantity coffee
| drinking isn't bad for you, might be helpful for some
| things, and tastes delicious.
|
| The only downside is that I have to be slightly prepared if
| I am not going to be able to easily consume my regular
| doses of caffeine. And if I want to cut/stop, it takes
| about a week or so to do so comfortably.
|
| As for the glorification, I think it's really a
| glorification of workaholics, and 'needing coffee to get
| through yet another pile of TPS Reports' is more a badge of
| honor than anything else.
| anonporridge wrote:
| I think that many addictions can be ok, so long as you
| understand how much power they have over you and keep a
| wary eye on them.
|
| An addiction can work well in some environment but
| completely destroy you if your environment changes.
|
| Also, I'm not convinced that caffeine addiction is
| completely overcome in the week or so it takes for the
| physical withdrawal. Even for myself when I decide to go
| through long periods of decaffeination, I find that my
| energy and motivation is significantly deteriorated from
| when I regularly caffeinate. Sometimes I wonder if my
| regular use as a college student permanently altered my
| brain chemistry. On the flip side, maybe this use set me
| up for the early career success that I might not
| otherwise have achieved.
| wyre wrote:
| Caffeine is a drug that generally increases energy and
| motivation so it makes sense that those levels wouldn't
| be as high without consuming it.
| [deleted]
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I don't understand why people have to go cold turkey. That's
| brutal. When I need to wean off caffeine, I keep Excedrin
| handy. Yes, it has caffeine. That's the point. I take it when
| the headache cranks up, it knocks it down, I don't take it
| again until the next headache. I never get a truly bad
| headache that way, and it only takes a few days to be
| completely weaned.
| drivers99 wrote:
| I tapered off of energy drinks at the beginning of the
| pandemic (I didn't want to be dependent on them, just in
| case). I simply drank 1 fluid ounce (about 28g by weight)
| less per day until it was 0. I'm sure I could have cut down
| faster, but I didn't need to and it was easy enough that
| way.
|
| Speaking of Excedrin, I chatted with a doctor online once,
| and he said he knew of people who were addicted to Excedrin
| and it was dangerous (presumably because of the
| acetaminophen, which can kill you if overdone) and people
| should throw it away. I can see his point since that
| medicine combines an addictive drug (caffeine) with a
| dangerous one. Probably a fringe opinion, but thought that
| was interesting.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| That is interesting, I've never heard of anyone becoming
| addicted to it. It is hands-down the most effective
| headache pill for me (even though I have been completely
| off caffeine for years now). I would hate it if they
| outlawed it; though reconstructing an equivalent would be
| pretty straightforward.
| maxerickson wrote:
| People clear caffeine at different rates, which has some
| impact on quitting stories.
|
| I drink like 50 fluid ounces of strong black coffee a day and
| don't really have a problem on days I drink a lot less. One
| thing I do is avoid consuming significant amounts of caffeine
| after noon. That way it's a normal thing for my body to have
| cleared most of the caffeine.
|
| Do you drink the 3 cups throughout the day?
| zeku wrote:
| Yeah I normally drink two in the morning and one in the
| afternoon
| bondarchuk wrote:
| Of course, don't go cold turkey, that's just stupid. You're
| taking a vasoconstrictor (something that makes blood vessels
| narrower), which results in a widening of the blood vessels
| as a compensation. If the vasoconstriction disappears
| suddenly then your vessels become too wide suddenly (this is
| what causes the headaches as far as I understand it). If you
| ease off slowly the compensation will also reduce slowly.
| YinglingLight wrote:
| I find it ironic that the demographic that purchases expensive
| coffee machines/workflows is the demographic most likely to
| quit entirely.
| ianai wrote:
| Matcha. Smooth constant rush of caffeine and theanine as your
| body digests the powder. Pu-erh is another favorite though.
| cyberpunk wrote:
| Ph-erg really is the path of righteousness; it's not for
| everyone though and there is such minutia involved in this
| type of tea that it's very easy to get a bit.. obsessive..
|
| I mean, it's normal to have separate yixing teapots depending
| on the age of your sheng right? ;)
| glenmorangie_14 wrote:
| I am quite addicted to coffee, but I've given it up multiple
| times for 1-2 months. What I've found is that I can get off of
| coffee easily by substituting tea for coffee and then ween
| myself off tea. I can skip coffee or other forms of caffeine,
| but I'll get headaches on day 2.
|
| What always brings me back to coffee is that I find myself in a
| generally mild depressive state when I'm not drinking it.
| Coffee makes me feel happy.
| robotnikman wrote:
| I feel the same way with coffee. As far as caffeinated
| beverages go, coffee is probably the least worrisome.
| spookybones wrote:
| Mild depression w/o it for me too. The other reason I tend to
| get back on it is if I'm hungover. But, I don't drink alcohol
| often. Tea doesn't seem to help with hangovers.
|
| I've considered experimenting more with matcha and yerba
| mate.
| bpodgursky wrote:
| I dropped coffee about two weeks ago, but still drink about a
| pot of (flavored) decaf a day. Maybe you could get the same
| mental benefits from the warmth + taste?
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| Hmm, tea isn't strong enough for me. Perhaps I could replace
| coffee with methamphetamine, if it comes down to it. Sticking
| with coffee -- for now.
| murrkeys wrote:
| I drink Yerba Mate tea as a substitute. It contains more
| caffeine than other teas, plus you can drink it out of a
| cool gourd. Might be worth giving a try!
| Dumblydorr wrote:
| Tea has fractions of the mg caffeine that coffee does. It
| makes sense pharmacologically that you have a higher
| tolerance than only tea drinkers. I wouldn't recommend
| using methamphetamine, it is a prescription for ADHD,
| taking it lightly is not advisable. You can use tea as a
| tolerance reducer instead, take it on off days instead of
| coffee.
| skillpass wrote:
| I recently noticed the same thing about depression and coffee
| after trying to quit several times over the past several
| years. Even months after the headaches ceased, I generally
| felt more depressive. Upon resumption of drinking, I started
| feeling more elevated in mood.
| yellow_lead wrote:
| My stomach also stopped tolerating coffee. Decaf is fine for me
| so I think it's the caffeine. However, I can tolerate a
| caffeinated cup every now and then, just not daily or twice
| daily as I had been before.
|
| Would be curious if anyone has ever been able to regain their
| tolerance. I really loved coffee.
| tayo42 wrote:
| I went to a doctor for this, he told me that caffeine slows
| down how fast a part of your esophagus responds that is
| responsible for keeping the acid in your stomach.
| amelius wrote:
| Interesting. Did you find a remedy?
| robocat wrote:
| Buy caffiene pills (Caffiene only nodoz or equivalent) and wean
| yourself off by lowering your dosage down over a few weeks
| ("titrate yourself off"). Breaking the pills into smaller
| amounts during the last week is annoying, but the technique
| prevents headaches and other symptoms.
|
| And beware that some bags of coffee beans have residual amounts
| of pesticides/fungicides etcetera which is possibly a cause of
| your problem. I sometimes get a mild allergic reaction to a
| coffee supplier, so I have to change suppliers until I find one
| I am not allergic to. I am pretty sure it is pesticides or
| another treatment... I am a fairly scientific person who
| loathes unscientific hypochondriacs: I have reasons to believe
| it is something in the beans and prior experiences suggest a
| treatment product.
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