[HN Gopher] Wendy Carlos on Bob Moog (2005)
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       Wendy Carlos on Bob Moog (2005)
        
       Author : fipar
       Score  : 113 points
       Date   : 2021-03-23 10:56 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wendycarlos.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wendycarlos.com)
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | I've been re-discovering organs (and specifically, pipe organs)
       | and I think they are an early pre-cursor so electronic
       | synthesizers. Wendy Carlos got me hooked on electronic music back
       | when that was still brand new (ok, Theremin), and her Switched On
       | Bach record is one of very few vinyl records that I still own.
        
       | Karawebnetwork wrote:
       | This website is a trip back in time! I love coming across old
       | style sites out in the wild. It reminds me of a bygone era.
       | 
       | Her site makes me want to change the style of mine and go back to
       | old school design paradigms.
       | 
       | http://www.wendycarlos.com/
       | 
       | (Another great site when you need a little nostalgia boost is
       | Space Jam: https://www.spacejam.com/)
        
       | bjelkeman-again wrote:
       | > From the beginning it was a balanced yin/yang relationship
       | between a maker of musical tools and the artists who used those
       | tools. It doesn't seem to work that way much anymore, and more's
       | the pity.
       | 
       | A place where I think this still happens is Darkglass and Neural
       | DSP where Doug Castro leads teams that create great musical
       | products in collaboration with artists. They just released the
       | Quad Cortex digital guitar effects pedal/platform which is
       | getting high praise. (Anxiously awaited I just got mine as part
       | of a the first batch of a preorder).
       | 
       | https://neuraldsp.com/
        
         | Mizza wrote:
         | Steve Duda worked with Deadmau5 to come up with Serum, which is
         | probably the most popular synth VST (and I think previously he
         | was a sound designer for Trent Reznor).
        
         | terramex wrote:
         | It still happens even in 'classic' synthesiser industry. Aphex
         | Twin did a collaboration with Korg few years ago, he was
         | providing feedback to them and created some excellent product
         | demos like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUT01p-C2xo
         | 
         | He also had input into Novation Bass Station II:
         | https://novationmusic.com/en/news/bass-station-firmware-v414
         | 
         |  _AFX Mode
         | 
         | Electronic music legend Richard James, aka Aphex Twin, has
         | already played an instrumental part in the Bass Station II
         | story, having provided guidance for the implementation of the
         | micro-tuning added with Firmware v2.5. His conceptual
         | contribution to v4.14 is even more profound, however.
         | 
         | Letting his imagination run riot, Richard envisioned the
         | decidedly radical notion of having a discrete set of synthesis
         | parameters assigned to each note of Bass Station II, either
         | variations on a 'seed' patch, or disparate sounds designed to
         | constitute a chimeric whole. Although this sort of thing could
         | already be kludged using very fast program change messages,
         | having multiple sounds active at the same time would clearly be
         | a far more creative and efficient system.
         | 
         | AFX Mode is the realisation of James' out-there concept. Put
         | simply, it lets you modify your Bass Station II patch on a key-
         | by-key basis. Use it to introduce subtle changes to a sound as
         | you play up and down the keyboard; divide the keyboard into
         | multiple zones (one per key if you like!), each playing its own
         | sound; or create entire drum kits in a single preset for
         | triggering manually or via the Arpeggiator. It's a truly
         | inspiring feature that really does open up a whole new world of
         | sound design and performance possibilities._
        
           | weatherlight wrote:
           | They even rereleased the bass station 2:
           | 
           | https://novationmusic.com/en/synths/afx-station
           | 
           | the thing to remember is that this was written before 2005,
           | that might have been the state of teh world then.
        
         | oilbagz wrote:
         | Look no further than Zynthian for another example of a balanced
         | relationship:
         | 
         | http://zynthian.com
         | 
         | Seems like FOSS is more resilient to the effect that Wendy
         | noted has, almost, made a farce of the synth market.
        
           | mxmilkb wrote:
           | Also https://moddevices.com
        
             | wdfx wrote:
             | Or build your own around an RPi 4
             | 
             | https://bitbucket.org/doughammond/guitarix-foot-
             | remote/src/m...
        
         | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
         | It has happened at IRCAM, too, where composers and technicians
         | work together. The technician helps explain to the composer
         | what electronics are available off the shelf, the composer
         | drives the technician to invent new technologies to create what
         | the composer can hear in his or her head.
        
         | IAmPym wrote:
         | And it absolutely still happens at Sequential (where I work),
         | speaking as an engineer who is also a musician and works very
         | closely with artists to hear what they want and build tools
         | that they get super inspired by. I couldn't imagine building
         | what we build without the close artist engagements that we
         | focus on. Every single person at our company is a musician,
         | which I've found out is not commonplace in our industry.
        
         | 52-6F-62 wrote:
         | It definitely still happens in the acoustic world, but much
         | like the audio software world there's more noise to signal than
         | there was in the past. Advanced instrument makers tend to work
         | closely with artists, while there's a much larger market for
         | cheaper, utility builds than ever.
         | 
         | I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. To me it says the
         | impact of music has only grown and I don't think we've began to
         | scratch the surface of understanding of what it really
         | communicates and does for people, and how it does it (stop me
         | before I get metaphysical). The increasingly wide reach and
         | accessibility of the craft with a select of standout talents to
         | me says renaissance.
        
           | jolux wrote:
           | >Advanced instrument makers tend to work closely with
           | artists, while there's a much larger market for cheaper,
           | utility builds than ever.
           | 
           | It's just a function of many instruments becoming
           | commoditized, which is overall a good thing. I bought a new
           | electric guitar for under $200 last year and it played great
           | out of the box. That didn't used to be possible.
        
             | 52-6F-62 wrote:
             | For sure! I learned on something my parents ordered from
             | Sears for $100. I think they still have it. Some of the
             | parts look like they were composed of boxwood or balsa, and
             | even cardboard.
             | 
             | It was horrible and I would play until my fingers would
             | bleed, then quit for the day. I learned to play on that for
             | _years_. It made learning a battle, not just a challenge.
             | 
             | It's another league entirely these days.
             | 
             | I would argue to the bitter end about instrument
             | construction and argue that "good" instruments are indeed
             | better than the commoditized versions of the same, but for
             | people starting out and coming up and even recording
             | they're fine tools! Memorable is Mike Campbell absolutely
             | tearing it up on an Epiphone Florida Gators LP special AKA
             | a cheap novelty guitar
             | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e25p0Y3Vd38).
             | 
             | But I to explain my original point further: It's not as
             | simple as just being a function of the commoditization.
             | That is undeniably what's happening, but the _why_ is, at
             | the root, a demand that didn 't previously exist, and not
             | just for novelty or aesthetic but playability. The need for
             | playability and a pleasing sound follows adoption, and
             | widespread adoption is what I think signifies renaissance.
             | There are more capable musicians than ever, and even
             | through the noise there are more capable productions than
             | ever, in all manner of genres and tuned to all manner of
             | tastes. Similar to how printing brought music to the wider
             | public and a generally supportive environment for the arts
             | during the period of the (capital R) Renaissance.
        
         | numlocked wrote:
         | Perhaps with Teenage Engineering as well?
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/magazine/electronic-music...
        
       | motohagiography wrote:
       | The impact of synthesizers is only just starting, imo. I'd argue
       | that a generation of kids are using their musical ear to develop
       | physical intuition for what sine, triangle, saw, pulse and other
       | waves are and how they interact. The principles apply to light as
       | much as they do to sound. When you take the combinatorics and
       | symmetries of music and the physics of waves, you've got the
       | makings of a pretty good intuitive curiosity for analog and
       | quantum computing.
       | 
       | If you've got a modular synth rig and kids in your house, I'd
       | posit that you are very much our future.
        
         | jcpst wrote:
         | Glad to hear this sentiment. I have a 5U modular system I built
         | long before I had kids. I'll start a patch, then have my 8-year
         | old start messing with it, enjoy the sound, then talk through
         | what is being changed.
        
         | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
         | The impact of synthesizers is already over. They were used far
         | more imaginatively in the 70s than they are today.
         | 
         | The real future is software, especially composition integrated
         | with DSP. Not aimless generative nonsense based on randomly
         | reshuffling arrays and maybe snapping them to a harmonic grid,
         | but complex, composed architectures of sound.
         | 
         | Some of them may not even have a bass drum on every quarter
         | beat - a bit radical, but who knows what the future holds?
        
           | naringas wrote:
           | microtonal harmonic grids free from the rigors of 12-tet
           | (i.e. midi, i.e. the keyboard)
           | 
           | but don't get me wrong, 12-tet is an incredible
           | accomplishment on its own. but it's what it is because of
           | (now obsolete) physical constraints of instrument building.
           | 
           | I've been trying to think about how to go beyond 12 tet for
           | years. I recently read this quote on a (unrelated nothing to
           | do with music) book[1] "So it's a bit like a piano that has a
           | meta-key that lets you add new keys." which summarizes my
           | goal better than I've ever been able to.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.wiley.com/en-
           | us/Don%27t+Teach+Coding%3A+Until+Yo...
        
             | motohagiography wrote:
             | If I ever made a eurorack module, it would be a controller
             | for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_levitation
        
             | analog31 wrote:
             | The funny thing is that outside of keyboards and electronic
             | music, nobody cares about temperament. Most wind and string
             | instruments are for all intents and purposes, untempered.
             | The 12 tone scale is still important -- it produces a
             | roughly consonant scale without excessive complexity. A 19
             | tone saxophone would be unplayable.
        
           | motohagiography wrote:
           | Synthesizers in the 70s cost the equivalent of a new car
           | today. In the 80s and 90s, they were out of reach of the
           | majority of creative people, and definitely out of reach of
           | kids. The problem with software instruments today is that
           | their connection to the internet and social media rewards
           | imitation over experimentation. I can assemble a bunch of
           | samples and post it on soundcloud and call it dubstep, and it
           | just creates a landfill of crap to sort through to find
           | anything good. It's cultural noise, it's not signal.
           | 
           | I seriously think the current era of modular synths and
           | analog devices is to quantum computing what radio electronics
           | kits of the 50s and 60s were to the personal computer. We're
           | only a decade or two from a quantum Hewlett-Packard or Woz-
           | Jobs garage-style project. That time goes by very fast.
        
             | EVdotIO wrote:
             | Back in the late 80s-early 90s with the advent of FM,
             | digital recording, samplers and other stuff, people were
             | ditching analog equipment en masse and _nobody_ wanted to
             | buy it except for broke kids, and this gave rise to whole
             | new genres and creative idioms we take for granted today.
             | The modern iteration of this is a kid with a cracked
             | version of FL Studio making weird phonk-hyper-trap. Maybe
             | playing in a band will come back. Who knows, but most of
             | the innovation right now is in the box.
        
           | Minor49er wrote:
           | Are you an Autechre fan by chance?
        
             | weatherlight wrote:
             | <3 Autechre and basically all of the 90s warp catalogue.
        
               | Slow_Hand wrote:
               | Word. Even their 00's releases are among some of my
               | favorites.
               | 
               | The GGP post stating that we're somehow in an ebb-tide of
               | synth programming quality and musicality probably doesn't
               | have much of an ear to what's being created.
        
           | the_local_host wrote:
           | > The impact of synthesizers is already over. They were used
           | far more imaginatively in the 70s than they are today
           | 
           | 1970s-style modular synthesis has been making a comeback over
           | the last... 20 years. (It was a slow comeback at first).
           | 
           | I agree that the impact of synthesizers was diminished during
           | the "preset era" of the 1980s until almost the present, but
           | interest in re-taking control of synths is growing (just look
           | up "modular synthesis" on Youtube to see many examples) and I
           | expect that we're on the cusp of having synthesis become
           | interesting again as artists sort out what to do with all the
           | new stuff.
        
             | jcpst wrote:
             | Yep. And it's important to note that advances in
             | software/DSP are not isolated from the hardware synthesis
             | world. There is a lot of innovation in digital modules
             | happening right now.
             | 
             | The hardware is simply an interface. The preferred
             | interface for most musicians.
        
             | _0ffh wrote:
             | I've been following Colin Benders (aka Kiteman) on Twitch
             | for years, he's probably my favourite modular user.
        
           | munificent wrote:
           | The negativity, cynicism, and sarcasm in this comment
           | regarding a subject I hold dear just makes me sad.
           | 
           | That "aimless generative nonsense" brings plenty of joy to
           | its creators and listeners and for many there are more
           | important goals than "complexity" (which is generally
           | considered a _bug_ not a feature in other areas).
        
           | weatherlight wrote:
           | you might be a little out of the loop,
           | 
           | Eurorack is completely booming at the moment. We are quite
           | literally living in a synth golden age. everything from very
           | boring Behringer clones of old synths to all the cutting edge
           | DSP in Eurorack and wacky combinations of audio synthesis
           | techniques, its all there.
        
       | CliffStoll wrote:
       | It was my honor to work with Bob Moog in the early 1970's; as
       | technician for the SUNY/Buffalo electronic music studio, I kept
       | the synthesizers running.
       | 
       | He was one of those wonderful people who was happy to show you
       | how to do something, without showing off or making a big deal of
       | it. Figuring out what was wrong in a voltage controlled
       | oscillator - cool stuff for this undergrad.
       | 
       | Reminds me of how, in those days of analog electronics, an
       | oscilloscope was the debugging tool of choice...
        
       | brylie wrote:
       | If you are interested in experimenting with modular synthesis,
       | check out VCV Rack. It's an Eurorack simulator with a huge number
       | of modules, many of which are open source.
       | 
       | https://vcvrack.com/
       | 
       | Omri Cohen recently hosted the Mycelium Symposium where many
       | creators showed some interesting possibilities using VCV Rack.
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nnipBoTOQ2g
        
         | lacavao wrote:
         | +1 for VCV Rack. It's an amazing piece of software, and
         | entirely mitigates the up-front cost issues that come along
         | with diving into modular synthesis.
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | It's great to see Wendy Carlos on the front page of Hacker News.
       | I have an original pressing of her "Switched on Bach" framed in
       | my living room.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Props!
        
         | dahart wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure I wore my dad's original vinyl copy of Switched
         | on Bach into near unplayability, as a child more than thirty
         | years ago. Absolutely my favorite record of all time. The
         | followups later with "better" synths never came close in my
         | mind to the sounds and performance of the first one.
        
         | jcpst wrote:
         | I picked it up at a thrift store, and that's why I started a
         | deep dive into modular synths.
         | 
         | I almost forgot I was reading the article from a hacker news
         | link, and not just from my own searching!
        
         | amysox wrote:
         | She's one of my role models, so I'm pleased to see this as
         | well.
         | 
         | I have two of her albums: the hard-to-find CD of _Peter and the
         | Wolf_ she did with  "Weird Al" Yankovic (the whole thing is a
         | delightful spoof), and _Switched-On Bach 2000,_ where she
         | revisited her original electronic music album with modern
         | synthesizers and authentic Bach tunings. (The liner notes are
         | an education in themselves!)
        
         | racl101 wrote:
         | I still listen to original TRON soundtrack a lot while working.
         | 
         | That and Blade Runner OST really hold up.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Related:
         | 
         |  _How Wendy Carlos Changed Music_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16077589 - Jan 2018 (43
         | comments)
        
       | konjin wrote:
       | For something similar from the same time:
       | https://archive.org/details/MusicOnThePDP1X/02+Little+Fugue+...
       | 
       | Adding a few sine oscillators to the MIT PDP-1 (yes 1) and then
       | togging them really fast to build up notes and scores.
       | 
       | A video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Led4jL-DnPk
        
       | S_A_P wrote:
       | Gotta shout out Isla Instruments here. Their S2400(SP-1200
       | inspired drum sampler) had pretty much a whos who of producers as
       | beta testers.
        
       | throwawaycuriou wrote:
       | the excellent writing style feels anachronistic. like a form that
       | wouldn't be done quite so if it were done today.
        
       | aklemm wrote:
       | Until recently there was a music+engineering+social issues
       | festival called Moogfest. I got to go twice, and it had been one
       | of my greatest pleasures as an adult. Lots of synth music,
       | technical classes during the day about synthesizers and other
       | electronic and music topics, and then a bunch of social issue
       | events hosted as well such as discussions of Afro-futurism.
       | 
       | Anyway, it died due to mismanagement, but talk about geek heaven.
       | Would love to see such a broad event again sometime.
        
       | barney54 wrote:
       | Thank you for posting this! I had not listened to Switched on
       | Bach before and after just a few minutes of listening I
       | definitely need to listen to more!
        
         | lentil_soup wrote:
         | I wanted to listen to it but couldn't find it on Spotify or
         | Youtube. Where did you listen to it?
        
         | xrd wrote:
         | Is this available online somewhere? I can only find snippets.
         | I'm happy to pay for it, I am not finding a link on her site at
         | all.
        
           | dewert wrote:
           | Also somewhere on archive.org. Not sure about linking to it
           | from here, but should be easy to find using their search.
           | Quite surprised that it's not on streaming services!
        
           | Freak_NL wrote:
           | Only (thankfully) through torrents, but needless to say that
           | is not legal in most jurisdictions. Most of her works are now
           | not available for sale except for second hand vinyl or CD.
           | 
           | This includes the four Switched-on albums, as well as such
           | rarities as her collaboration with "Weird Al" Yankovic:
           | _Peter & the Wolf/Carnival of the Animals - Part II_.
           | 
           | I think the excellent and dystopic sounding Clockwork Orange
           | soundtrack is available digitally though.
        
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