[HN Gopher] The Most Important Scarce Resource Is Legitimacy
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       The Most Important Scarce Resource Is Legitimacy
        
       Author : ve55
       Score  : 29 points
       Date   : 2021-03-23 21:28 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (vitalik.ca)
 (TXT) w3m dump (vitalik.ca)
        
       | akyu wrote:
       | It seems that nearly every "public good" in the Ethereum
       | ecosystem got gobbled up by VCs and pivoted to for-profit
       | endeavors. I don't mind VCs and I don't mind people seeking
       | profit, but this moral high ground that Ethereum has been trying
       | to build for itself is delusional. In practice it is just a
       | marketing gimmick.
       | 
       | An astute observer may have noticed that Vitalik has a habit of
       | coming up with definitions that only himself and the Ethereum
       | foundation can meet the standards of.
       | 
       | The reality is everyone is just trying to make money. I think we
       | are better off coming to terms with that instead of living in a
       | collective fantasy.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | > The reality is everyone is just trying to make money. I think
         | we are better off coming to terms with that instead of living
         | in a collective fantasy.
         | 
         | The reality is that not everyone does the same thing for the
         | same reasons. No, not everyone working in the Ethereum
         | ecosystem does so just to make quick money, just like not
         | everyone is working in the military just to kill people, some
         | try to help make the world better.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | akyu wrote:
           | Don't worry, what I'm telling you is actually good for your
           | bags. You should be happy about this.
        
         | pjscott wrote:
         | Public goods are by definition non-rivalrous and non-
         | excludable. How can they be gobbled?
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good_(economics)
         | 
         | (I'm not being pedantic here. The concept of a public good, in
         | this technical sense, is a very important concept to have --
         | and it's specifically the kind of "public goods" the article
         | was talking about, along with ideas for improving their
         | tendency to be under-supplied. Goods that can be gobbled up by
         | someone tend to be produced at closer to the optimum amount,
         | since there's a less diffuse private incentive for their
         | production.)
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | Presumably the parent commenter is talking about providers
           | (or potential providers) of public goods being gobbled up,
           | leading to the classic economic problem that public goods
           | tend to be under-produced.
        
             | akyu wrote:
             | Yea partially that, and also the fact that multiple
             | projects used "public goods" language to bootstrap
             | themselves and then pivoted into VC funded for profits.
        
           | akyu wrote:
           | Ok show me examples.
        
       | jasode wrote:
       | _> Why is it that Elon Musk can sell an NFT of Elon Musk's tweet,
       | but Jeff Bezos would have a much harder time doing the same? Elon
       | and Jeff have the same level of ability to screenshot Elon's
       | tweet and stick it into an NFT dapp, so what's the difference? To
       | anyone who has even a basic intuitive understanding of human
       | social psychology (or the fake art scene), the answer is obvious:
       | Elon selling Elon's tweet is the real thing, and Jeff doing the
       | same is not. Once again, millions of dollars of value are being
       | controlled and allocated, not by individuals or cryptographic
       | keys, but by social conceptions of legitimacy._
       | 
       | It seems like Vitalik has stumbled into another restatement of
       | the famous essay _" What Colour are your bits?"_[1] ... which is
       | basically a poetic way of saying _" What _Provenance_ are your
       | bits?"_
       | 
       | Provenance matters.
       | 
       | (But I'm not claiming that NFTs will have enduring value. I can't
       | tell if they will be a fad or not.)
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23#:~:text=Having%20identica....
        
       | capableweb wrote:
       | A curious observation about NFTs that many on HN seems to have
       | missed in other threads:
       | 
       | > Why is it that Elon Musk can sell an NFT of Elon Musk's tweet,
       | but Jeff Bezos would have a much harder time doing the same? Elon
       | and Jeff have the same level of ability to screenshot Elon's
       | tweet and stick it into an NFT dapp, so what's the difference? To
       | anyone who has even a basic intuitive understanding of human
       | social psychology (or the fake art scene), the answer is obvious:
       | Elon selling Elon's tweet is the real thing, and Jeff doing the
       | same is not. Once again, millions of dollars of value are being
       | controlled and allocated, not by individuals or cryptographic
       | keys, but by social conceptions of legitimacy.
        
         | sporkologist wrote:
         | Do NFT's really only have value upon their first sale? Wouldn't
         | that be basically a donation to Elon with no expectation of
         | value on the secondary market?
        
           | Swizec wrote:
           | Otherwise known as the reason large art sales exist: Money
           | laundering et al.
           | 
           | It is _very_ convenient when you get to call your money
           | transfer  "A Sale". If the thing you're buying has a publicly
           | verifiable (albeit dubious/preposterous) market value, you
           | aren't even committing fraud!
        
           | Jarwain wrote:
           | Resale of an NFT is different; since you can look up previous
           | owners of the NFT there's a way to validate "yes this NFT is
           | the one originally sold by Elon".
           | 
           | The NFT has value Because it was the one Elon sold and
           | signified as legit, versus the NFT some random person sold
        
         | kybernetikos wrote:
         | To me it seems that NFTs could include some part of the bundle
         | of IP rights that typically go along with an artistic work.
         | 
         | For example, the artist could create a license that allows only
         | the current owner of the NFT to make a physical copy, or a
         | right to be credited whenever a physical copy is exhibited or
         | something like that.
         | 
         | I suppose I'm thinking in terms of what an ultra rich person
         | gets from owning a famous artwork, if they then lend it to a
         | public gallery and allow everyone to see it - I presume it's
         | the right to have a little card next to it that says 'on loan
         | from the collection of X'. I think NFTs could provide something
         | of the same experience for 'owners' of digital assets.
        
         | Jarwain wrote:
         | I think if Jeff Bezos decided to sell an NFT of Elon's first
         | tweet, there would be more value there compared to if some
         | random person sold an NFT representing the same thing
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | Correct, but maybe you're missing the point if that's your
           | first thought. It now becomes "The NFT that Jeff Bezos made
           | of Elon's first tweet", not the "Elon Musk NFT of Elon Musk",
           | both obviously much more "interesting" (for human reasons? I
           | don't know, don't care) than the "John Smith NFT of Elon
           | Musk"
        
         | maxerickson wrote:
         | If Elon can sell his own tweet NFTs better than anybody else
         | can, that's a pretty good argument that they are gonna be a
         | novelty and not some new form of art exchange.
         | 
         | Because what are the buyers of the Elon-tweet NFTs gonna do
         | when they decide they want something else for their 'value'?
         | They are gonna try and sell the Elon-tweet NFT and find out
         | that they lack legitimacy!
        
           | wmf wrote:
           | You're misunderstanding the argument. Elon can _create_ the
           | NFT due to his legitimacy, but subsequent trading of those
           | NFTs doesn 't require legitimacy because ownership is tracked
           | on the blockchain.
        
             | maxerickson wrote:
             | No, I'm mocking the whole idea, I understand the difference
             | between origination and selling.
             | 
             | I do legitimately think that novelty is a big factor, and
             | buying an Elon-tweet NFT from some random guy is gonna have
             | way less novelty value than buying it from Elon.
        
               | wmf wrote:
               | I agree. Overpaying for NFTs is like performance art; the
               | value isn't in owning the NFT itself.
        
       | zuhayeer wrote:
       | Legitimacy sounds very much like consensus
        
         | vbuterin wrote:
         | It is.
        
       | magwa101 wrote:
       | Even though he promotes NFTs as a way for artists to capture
       | value...he also proposes that there is a charity component? Um,
       | what?
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-23 23:00 UTC)