[HN Gopher] The Case For Better Watch Typography
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       The Case For Better Watch Typography
        
       Author : well_i_never
       Score  : 46 points
       Date   : 2021-03-23 06:35 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.hodinkee.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.hodinkee.com)
        
       | DerekRobot wrote:
       | I find it easier to quickly read watches that have minutes
       | printed instead of hours.
        
       | anotheryou wrote:
       | If you want it readable, why analog in the first place?
        
         | dctoedt wrote:
         | > _If you want it readable, why analog in the first place?_
         | 
         | Granting that not everyone learns to "tell time" these days,
         | for those who did, the watch hands instantly convey the
         | (12-hour) time by their positions.
         | 
         | That is, as long as one of the hands is sufficiently longer
         | than the other. Years ago I woke up, looked at my analog watch,
         | saw it was 6:55 a.m., got up, and started shaving, thinking I'd
         | overslept. A few minutes later I looked again: It was actually
         | 10:45 p.m.; I'd been asleep for maybe 30 minutes and had
         | misread the hands. (This was during an at-sea period in the
         | Navy, during which as usual we were all running on not a lot of
         | sleep.)
         | 
         | Incidentally, from your handle, are you a Seekers fan?
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZf41UudAbI
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | _Granting that not everyone learns to "tell time" these days_
           | 
           | The kids across the street, now 13 and 9, have no idea or
           | have to translate when they ask the time and I tell them it's
           | "ten 'til eleven" or summat. I'm not 100% sure they can read
           | an analog dial without giving it some thought. Smart kids,
           | too, I just don't think there are a lot of analog clocks in
           | their life. The only analog clock in _my_ life is the watch
           | face on my Apple Watch, and I often debate going digital
           | full-time on that one.
           | 
           | In a similar vein, I'm approaching retirement and I can't
           | fully write cursive anymore, and what little is left is
           | _sloooow_.
        
           | anotheryou wrote:
           | You are right :)
           | 
           | I'm just about old enough that I kind of unlearned reading
           | the clock again. I can sure do it, but on blank clock faces
           | without hour marks I have to think a bit.
        
       | mcherm wrote:
       | All of the carefully crafted typefaces featured in the article
       | emphasized recognizable style. None of them emphasized
       | readability.
       | 
       | Personally, I prefer the typeface found on my Timex. It's nothing
       | fancy, but it is very easy to read at a glance.
        
         | watchesthrwomsp wrote:
         | I think that is fine, most people aren't wearing watches out of
         | practicality reasons. More as a style thing. I guess
         | smartwatches could be considered more practical less stylish.
        
           | azinman2 wrote:
           | You're not paying $65k+ for a watch because it's utilitarian.
        
             | jschwartzi wrote:
             | I think you could probably pay someone $40,000 a year to
             | follow you around and tell you what time it is whenever you
             | ask.
        
               | neolog wrote:
               | These watches last longer than a year.
        
               | jschwartzi wrote:
               | True, but think of all the complications a regular person
               | could perform that the watch can't.
        
               | JohnBooty wrote:
               | Watches have complications, but people have
               | _complications, maaaaan_
        
             | JohnBooty wrote:
             | Part of the fun of some watch styles (because let's face
             | it, we're overgrown children) is utilitarian aspects we'll
             | never need. Like wearing a 200M or 300M waterproof dive
             | watch to your office job.
             | 
             | Just in case, like, the Navy SEALs suddenly drop into your
             | cubicle and ask you if you'd like to go on some kind of
             | amphibious assault mission on extremely short notice. I
             | mean, they won't. But what if they _DID?_ Wouldn 't you
             | want your watch to be up to the task!?
        
       | souplesse wrote:
       | An interesting subject, but I couldn't help but be totally
       | derailed by introduction of Jonathan Hoefler as "designer of
       | famed fonts like Gotham".
       | 
       | That's like introducing Thomas Edison as "father of AC power", or
       | Pepsi as "creators of Coca-Cola". It might seem like nitpicking,
       | but we're talking about one of the most famous typefaces in the
       | world[1] and the most dramatic design industry scandal[2] of the
       | 21st century.
       | 
       | [1] https://theoutline.com/post/7356/gotham-font-is-everywhere
       | 
       | [2] https://qz.com/167993/frere-jones-is-suing-hoefler-for-
       | his-h...
        
       | Causality1 wrote:
       | The "8" was very poorly thought-out in my opinion. It has no
       | angles or sharp edges, setting it apart from the other numerals.
       | It'd be better as a full circle on the bottom and a cut 3/4 or
       | 4/5 circle on top.
        
       | kenneth wrote:
       | That's why I wear a watch with simple ticks instead of numbers
       | and no complications other than a simple day-of-the-month. I
       | can't stand busy watch faces.
       | 
       | https://www.omegawatches.com/media/catalog/product/cache/a5c...
        
         | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
         | That linked watch has numbers on it, though.
        
         | Xenoamorphous wrote:
         | Like my favourite, the Junghans Max Bill.
         | 
         | https://i.imgur.com/sPaglyW.jpg
         | 
         | There's a version with numerals and the 4 is kinda iconic.
         | 
         | https://www.blackbough.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/junghans-max...
        
       | grimborg wrote:
       | And often there's so much text on the dials. Brand name,
       | automatic, 1000ft, made in X, etc, etc. I find it extremely
       | noisy.
        
       | mrunseen wrote:
       | Discussion on r/typography:
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/typography/comments/m83d5i/article_...
       | 
       | Similar article (originally linked in Reddit post):
       | https://www.typography.com/fonts/decimal/design-notes
       | 
       | Kind of off-topic but Hoefler didn't actually design Gotham (and
       | scammed his business partner Frere-Jones who actually designed
       | the Gotham)
        
       | jschwartzi wrote:
       | I think that Hermes watch that the article thinks so highly of
       | has an awful typeface. It's cool that they went to the trouble of
       | designing something to work within their design language, but
       | it's totally unreadable. It would have worked better to simply
       | leave the hour marks totally unadorned.
        
       | hdkekbro wrote:
       | The Junghans Max Bill is the most legible analog watch I've ever
       | seen.
       | 
       | https://www.ablogtowatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Jung...
       | 
       | You go from inside out "10... 08". No counting, no distributions.
       | 
       | Edit: Come to think of it you still need to count the offset from
       | the nearest minute hand.
        
         | JohnBooty wrote:
         | It's funny how different people have different ideas about
         | what's legible and usable.
         | 
         | I've never seen that model in person but in general I find
         | skinny silver hands on a white dial tend to be less than ideal
         | for legibility.
         | 
         | And while the numeric minute markers are clever and legible,
         | they seem wholly unnecessary to me -- when looking at an analog
         | clock I'm nearly always going to round it off to the nearest 5
         | minutes in my head anyway. "Oh, it's almost 4:15" or "Oh, it's
         | about 1:30" etc.
         | 
         | Which is not to say anything you're saying is "wrong!" I just
         | think it's interesting how different people think about time
         | and watches differently. One of my favorite things about the
         | watch hobby.
        
           | hdkekbro wrote:
           | Interesting that you round. I wish I could just be fine with
           | rounding but if I'm being honest with myself I'm anal-
           | retentive when it comes to time. My clocks have to be atomic-
           | synced too. Maybe I need to go all digital. I agree that
           | black on white would add contrast and improve it.
        
         | Hublium wrote:
         | The site blocks hotlinking. Mirror:
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20181008041959im_/http://www.abl...
        
       | foobiter wrote:
       | I've found a similar issue with wall clocks... it's frustratingly
       | hard to find an option with good type. The double digit numbers
       | tend to throw off the face balance .
        
       | Doctor_Fegg wrote:
       | The article diplomatically doesn't show any examples of the
       | terrible typography foisted on other watches, but it doesn't take
       | much browsing around Hodinkee to find examples.
       | 
       | Like the stretched SAT DEC on this Patek Philippe:
       | https://hodinkee.imgix.net/uploads/images/cf044e7b-7239-44a7...
       | 
       | Or this 'Word Art meets Mickey Mouse' Omega:
       | https://hodinkee.imgix.net/shop/images/bf1f83ff-b964-4a98-a9...
       | 
       | (edit:) Here's another good piece on the same subject:
       | 
       | https://watchesbysjx.com/2015/08/editorial-why-fonts-and-typ...
       | 
       | Lots of lovely typography at the top, but search the page for
       | "questionable" to find a real horror.
        
         | jw1224 wrote:
         | > 'Word Art meets Mickey Mouse'
         | 
         | Whilst that made me chuckle, there's a lot of history behind
         | this (very intentional) typographic style. They're called
         | "Breguet numerals", and are much sought-after by watch
         | collectors. I think they look gorgeous on some of these
         | examples -- https://www.italianwatchspotter.com/breguet-
         | numerals/ -- although the Omega example you gave is a slightly
         | more contemporary interpretation of them.
        
         | pkd wrote:
         | I love that Omega dial.
        
         | kijin wrote:
         | Very few watchmakers, even at the top of the range, seem to get
         | typography right when it comes to day/date/month windows. They
         | just print whatever gets the information across and call it a
         | day. At best, they might match the color and add a border
         | around the window. It's almost as if they only care about
         | designing the top layer of the dial.
         | 
         | The only well-known brand that consistently seems to get it
         | right is A. Lange & Sohne, which totally makes sense because
         | prominent numerical displays are one of the distinguishing
         | features of their style.
         | 
         | Japanese brands are even worse. Take any complicated Citizen
         | watch and you'll instantly recognize the "Eco-Drive" label in
         | italic Arial/Helvetica with awkward kerning. Every element is
         | printed in a random font that looks suspiciously similar to one
         | of the Windows default fonts. The margins are all over the
         | place, too. Seiko is somewhat better, but only because they
         | usually don't print as many letters and numbers on the dial.
        
           | JohnBooty wrote:
           | Japanese brands are even worse.
           | 
           | It's polarizing, but a lot of people (including me)
           | absolutely love the "wall of unnecessary text" on some Casio
           | models. I can't defend it on any logical level, but I'm
           | certainly not alone.
           | 
           | https://www.watchuseek.com/cdn-
           | cgi/image/format=auto,onerror...
           | 
           | https://bladereviews.com/images/casio/img-casio-
           | dw-5600-01.j...                   Take any complicated
           | Citizen watch and you'll          instantly recognize the
           | "Eco-Drive" label in          italic Arial/Helvetica with
           | awkward kerning.
           | 
           | I agree, and I think it's just so baffling and frustrating.
           | 
           | Their use of solar (quartz) movements means that a lot of
           | enthusiasts have no interest in them, but I think they make a
           | lot of the best watches under $500USD. However that Eco-Drive
           | logo is just _so_ basic. A minor tweak to that Eco-Drive logo
           | alone would do wonders for their brand, I think.
           | 
           | I wonder if the suits in charge of Citizen realize how
           | bad/boring that logo is. I think they honestly may be blind
           | to it, just as Western suits might be blind to typographical
           | issues when they look at kanji characters.
        
           | Guest19023892 wrote:
           | This article already mentions Nomos, but they always nail
           | their date windows.
           | 
           | https://i.imgur.com/xxsxruT.jpg
           | 
           | https://i.imgur.com/MPPtITv.jpg
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | > The article diplomatically doesn't show any examples of the
         | terrible typography
         | 
         | It even shows a picture of the all-so (all too?) common Rolex
         | Submariner which bears, after decades of refinements, one of
         | the finest typography out there IMO.
        
       | alpaca128 wrote:
       | > Inside The Design The Case For Better Watch Typography
       | 
       | This is how the article's headline reads when the browser does
       | not load a site's custom fonts.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | dwighttk wrote:
       | All of these comments and the article itself are evidence that
       | there is a "there" there when it comes to typography criticism,
       | but personally (aside from the like 1% most egregious examples) I
       | don't get what people are talking about when they complain about
       | this sort of thing.
        
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