[HN Gopher] All my career rejections
___________________________________________________________________
All my career rejections
Author : azhenley
Score : 99 points
Date : 2021-03-22 18:27 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (web.eecs.utk.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (web.eecs.utk.edu)
| colmvp wrote:
| I had to accept a huge volume of rejection, both doing in job
| applications (hundreds of applications) and online dating
| (thousands). All the while being alone during Covid-19.
|
| My advice to those who might be reading is to find a mentor or
| best friend who you can update on your progress on a semi-regular
| basis. Those people helped me so much to remain positive and
| upbeat during the really disappointing moments of 2020. They can
| also give feedback on your approaches.
|
| The other tip is to accept it's going to feel terrible, but to
| let the disappointment that you feel flow through you to help
| move on.
| slk500 wrote:
| interesting, but better to keep that list for yourself
| azhenley wrote:
| Why? It would have helped me a lot when I was younger if more
| "successful" people shared this info.
| makach wrote:
| The essence of this article is wonderful!
|
| I've been rejected quite a few times as well. This is in fact so
| inspiring that I will apply for another job that I most likely
| will be rejected from as well.
|
| You cannot win if you don't play the game.
| filmgirlcw wrote:
| I'm not going to rattle off my own career rejection list (though
| I've definitely done in in talks I've given aimed at people about
| to graduate from college), but I really appreciate this post.
|
| I don't work in academia, but I know enough people that do to
| know how rare it is to be open about what is a very rejection-
| heavy industry, and I commend the author for putting that out
| there!
| revskill wrote:
| Good love to see more details on the Why rejects from them.
| pmiller2 wrote:
| Good luck getting the truth out of any company about why they
| rejected a candidate.
| jdorfman wrote:
| We should all post ours here. I'll start:
|
| * Google * Amazon/AWS (interviewed by Jeff Barr and tbh, I was
| starstruck) * Cloudflare * EdgeCast * Twitter * GitLab * GitHub *
| Linux Foundation * Wikimedia * DigitalOcean * Snyk
| jibbers wrote:
| Since I began keeping track, about two years ago, I've applied
| to 605 jobs, rejected by 328, and the rest didn't even bother
| to send me a robo-rejection email. Is there any value in
| posting my list?
| inertiatic wrote:
| The article/blog post itself seems a bit pointless, minimal
| content and comes along as more of a humble brag. However I guess
| it triggers discussion so it's not without value entirely.
|
| I have experienced countless rejections. Tens to hundreds every
| time I switch jobs. After just a few of these, you realize no one
| knows how to hire and just laugh at the absurdity of this
| profession.
| nautilus12 wrote:
| Ooohh you sound like you could out humble brag them. Humble
| brag off!
| alexashka wrote:
| It has that 'if I can do it, you can too' that people who don't
| know how the world works but base their life around what other
| people are doing/saying absolutely love, because it gives them
| hope.
|
| The more people sharing 'started from the bottom now we here'
| without mentioning the likelihood of it happening, the more
| people love it. Delusional, yet simple self serving beliefs
| have a snowball effect without fail - I'd wager Western culture
| is almost entirely made up of them at this point, which has
| some interesting consequences.
| jbluepolarbear wrote:
| I've had a lot of rejections in my career and I have learned that
| the best advantage I have that I can bring to an interview is my
| conversation skills. I may not be as good as another engineer on
| paper, but if I can get an interview that usually changes.
| gnarbarian wrote:
| Success may only come once out of every 100 times you try. So you
| better get over failing and iterate quickly if you want to make
| it. Fail fast so you can move on.
|
| Interviewing is a skill just like talking to women. you need
| practice before you will succeed. And practice necessarily means
| rejection.
|
| People who are afraid to fail will never succeed. They put too
| much weight on a particular thing and then are crushed when it
| doesn't pan out. You have to get to the point where rejection and
| failure don't hurt. Just add another data point to your corpus of
| life experience. Then magically you start to succeed and your
| success will snowball.
| ArtWomb wrote:
| Very interesting that your focus is "IDE research". Not sure I've
| encountered that before! One reason for the rejections may be
| that in industry, from what I've seen, dev and cloud tools are
| managed by more "soft skills" people. Masters in Psychology types
| may be more the candidate they seek. I suppose the thinking is
| that to gain mass adoption they have to be less engineer designed
| and more user friendly ;)
| [deleted]
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| I've been incredibly fortunate to have few rejections in my
| career. Off the top of my head:
|
| - Google (the feeling was mutual)
|
| - GitHub, if you count no response as a rejection
|
| - I likely would have been rejected by Microsoft, but I ended the
| interview early
|
| That said, I've been even more fortunate to have established
| great working relationships with peers, mentors and mentees,
| which has helped me get all but my first job and the one I'm
| likely to start next.
|
| In a sense, the amount of nepotism in the industry is probably a
| barrier to many, which I'm sensitive to. But these working
| relationships aren't the only way to establish good connections.
| I've seen people do very well by just attending meetups related
| to some aspect of the industry they find interesting.
|
| That's still a barrier for people who don't have the time to
| devote (or wait), but for anyone who does have the time and wants
| to improve their prospects I highly encourage giving it a try.
| daveslash wrote:
| I entered the professional workforce in the fall of 2008, as the
| recession was in full force. I had a college degree, but no
| experience or resume of which to speak - and frankly, didn't know
| very much outside of academia. I was lucky enough to land a job,
| but was laid off in fall of 2009. I was poor, sleeping on an air
| mattress, and in my early 20s, but determined to get a job as a
| software engineer, even if it meant taking a non software job for
| a while. This was before I knew that job-recruiters were a thing,
| or how to make connections with them, and before Linked-In had
| taken off. I made sure to apply for 10 jobs online, by going to
| companies "apply" pages, _every-singly-day_. I did this for two
| full months (weekends excluded). That 's 400 applications. I only
| got 5 interviews, and only 1 job offer. That's 399 rejections.
|
| I'm doing well now - but those were rough times for me. When my
| teenager feels rejected (e.g. not making the team), I always tell
| them that rejection is always a bummer, but not the end of the
| world. And I gently remind them of that story as a way of saying
| *"trust me, I'm not saying that as empty words; I do understand
| how it feels."
| filmgirlcw wrote:
| I entered the workforce at the same time. I don't have kids so
| I can't relate to that aspect, but I speak to lots of college
| students and career-switchers and like you, I always note that
| I'm coming from a place of knowledge. I've been mentoring a lot
| of recent grads over the last year and with the pandemic, the
| uncertainty in the job market is very reminiscent of 2008 and I
| know what it was like to graduate into a pit of "what am I
| going to do?" And the answer is usually, "it'll be fine.
| Probably."
| [deleted]
| jart wrote:
| Rejection is a strong word to use when some algorithm didn't
| find the keyword it was looking for. Not getting an offer after
| interviewing isn't really so bad either since it's a learning
| opportunity where you get to meet people and ask questions.
| Before covid it usually meant you got a free vacation too.
| grayclhn wrote:
| Yeah, not in 2008.
| a_brawling_boo wrote:
| That is so similar to what happened to me, only I had graduated
| December 2006. So I had 1.5 years until it went south and got
| laid off. Luckily I had acquired a condo in that time at the
| market peak, so I had a place to lay awake at night and worry
| about how I'd pay the mortgage.
| tmnstr85 wrote:
| This right here is the goods... only thing that would make
| this better is if it was a variable interest mortgage
| zabzonk wrote:
| Possibly more interesting if information on acceptances was also
| provided.
| [deleted]
| cabernal wrote:
| His CV is linked in there.
| pedrosorio wrote:
| The CV only contains a subset of all acceptances
| d33lio wrote:
| Not to be harsh, but maybe this guy just isn't a good
| engineer / academic? This is why I switched from EE to CS,
| I found it far more interesting and could execute doing
| software stuff at a very high level even with my piss poor
| academic record. Never do something you're mediocre at,
| life just isn't going to be a good time if that's your
| approach. Tbh, if I was this guy I would've just switched
| industries and done something I was objectively better at.
| I quit EE because without a doubt I would've been a C-level
| electrical engineer at best.
| the_only_law wrote:
| > Never do something you're mediocre at, life just isn't
| going to be a good time if that's your approach.
|
| What happens when you're mediocre at everything.
| azhenley wrote:
| I never thought I was bad at my job and I have
| equal/higher acceptance rates than my friends, but thanks
| for the vote of confidence! Rejection is _very_ common in
| academia and I wish people talked about it more.
| filmgirlcw wrote:
| Thank you for writing about it! It's very common in tech
| too but people don't talk about that either (though
| academia is objectively more competitive; you have far
| fewer tenure-track slots, compared to even a major
| "elite" tech company that employs over 100,000 people).
|
| It's important for people to see that those who have
| succeeded have failed too.
| filmgirlcw wrote:
| I think that's pretty harsh. Perhaps he's not the best
| SWE candidate at a FAANG or FAANG-like place -- but he's
| in a tenure-track position at a school that is top 40ish
| for public universities (averaging both engineering and
| computer science in undergrad rankings), which is hardly
| something to "switch industries" over.
|
| We do ourselves a major disservice by pretending that
| only having an academic position at the top five or ten
| schools or a job at one of the top five or six tech
| companies is the only way to achieve success.
| plank_time wrote:
| I've been rejected 5 times from Google. And yet every year like
| clockwork they email me again asking to interview. At this point
| I just say yes every couple of years and try again because why
| not. I think I do well enough to deserve a call-back but never
| good enough to get hired (I made it to the hiring committee
| though).
| [deleted]
| throwawaypqr123 wrote:
| Throwaway because reasons.
|
| I "failed" my first four (edit: onsite) FANG interviews. 5th
| time was a charm, have been happily employed with a senior
| title at FANG for a couple years.
|
| Not exactly new information to HN, but the job itself is quite
| a bit easier than the interviews (wrt to technical knowledge).
| It can be just as stressful though (I actually think stress
| response / teamwork is one of the main things FANG interviewers
| are looking for after a certain bar of technical competence is
| met, YMMV).
|
| This isn't for everyone, but if it's something you really want
| to do, don't let the rejections get you down. You'll get in
| eventually :)
| decafninja wrote:
| Hearing stuff like this gives me hope, but still the
| experience is frustrating. I suppose for argument's sake, you
| can theoretically interview at each of the letters in FAANG
| every year. Just blew my attempt at the F for 2021, so trying
| to reach out to the rest of the letters (and some other
| companies).
| throwawaypqr123 wrote:
| Oh agreed it's super frustrating. A lot of times you won't
| even get any feedback with the rejection, which is
| incredibly demotivating and tbqh, infuriating.
|
| > you can theoretically interview at each of the letters in
| FAANG every year
|
| One of those letters will let you interview many times in a
| single year ;) (but not for the same role on the same team)
|
| If I had any final advice for those intent on going through
| the interview meat grinder it is that while l33tcode can be
| useful, you'll still want to understand some of the why
| behind popular algorithms and not just have a ton of
| specific ones memorized. This will save you when you have
| to talk through a problem you're not already familiar with.
|
| Skiena's The Algorithm Design Manual was more helpful to me
| than any other prep material in that regard.
| decafninja wrote:
| Would that that be F & N? :)
|
| I know you can interview at multiple roles at FB provided
| 1.) you pass the initial phone screen and 2.) the onsite
| loop is different - say, frontend vs. product/backend.
| Doesn't work for me this year since I likely failed the
| phonescreen...
|
| I've heard in theory you can apply to multiple jobs at N
| too.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| I've had that happen a couple of times. Do a video/phone call
| with an SME that goes really well... then it doesn't.
|
| The second time they were locking down a time I could fly
| somewhere and the whole thing went poof. Fortunately I was in a
| good job and it was no big deal, but it would have been very
| stressful if I was between gigs.
| [deleted]
| cweill wrote:
| I got rejected twice, and got an offer on my third try over the
| course of 3 years. If it's something your really want, don't
| give up. Also see the "interview anti-loop" http://steve-
| yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-goog...
| [deleted]
| codezero wrote:
| Interesting to see the differences in people. I've had a long
| career with very few rejections, but it has a lot to do with the
| fact that I don't apply to places unless I am really confident I
| am definitely going to be the best candidate, and that's
| generally been true.
|
| That said, I encourage folks on my team to interview regularly
| just to know how to value themselves and to see that there are
| other opportunities, and to just get practice interviewing and
| learning how other companies run the process.
|
| My rejections:
|
| - laid off from Red Hat post dot-bomb (I wasn't really trying to
| stay at the time) ~ 2003
|
| - rejected for a sysadmin position at Blizzard in around 2003 or
| 4?
|
| - rejected from a lot of PhD programs in Physics (I wasn't really
| trying that hard, see a theme, it's called cognitive dissonance!)
| ~ 2008
|
| - fired from Quora (honestly really just ended up misaligned with
| my boss and career goals, they made the right call) ~ 2014
|
| - rejected from Stripe with two personal referrals after the last
| stage of the interview. I was pretty bummed by this and had spent
| a month putting all my eggs in one basket to work there. This was
| 2014 so I also missed out on a nice bit of stock to be honest!
|
| At my current company I feel like I finally had enough continuity
| to specialize a bit and become an expert in a field to feel
| comfortable with what ever may come next. I hope others can find
| that in their careers too.
| esel2k wrote:
| If you only applied to positions you knew where the best
| candidate - how did you not feel that the job would not offer
| you new challenges or the position is too low?
|
| I tend to keep interviewing or lets call it networking. The
| position I did fit a 100% I ended up declining as they were
| mostly position I thought I would go downwards in my career and
| pay, even if it sounded interesting.
|
| Glad you found that place of continuity - still trying to get
| there...
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > I tend to keep interviewing or lets call it networking.
|
| Do you not find interviewing is super expensive in terms of
| time? My last interview was a four-day trip and about 40
| hours of prep time before that.
|
| If I interviewed more than once or twice a year it'd be an
| enormous time sink. Maybe it pays off for you because you
| think the networking benefits are so high?
| codezero wrote:
| For me it was a few lucky coincidences.
|
| I've never had concrete career goals, that's step one of not
| being bothered by challenges.
|
| Step two, I've always worked at startups in relatively
| emerging markets, which means they are inherently new and
| challenging and that has fed that challenge/growth that I
| seek even though not necessarily tied to career growth
| explicitly.
|
| I've only started in my 40s to care about long term career
| growth, so go figure.
|
| I think the short answer is I'm highly internally motivated
| and seek out challenges no matter what so it's not a thing I
| usually worry about.
| foobarian wrote:
| It looks like it's pretty common to go interview just to "keep
| the skills sharp." What do folks think of this practice? I feel
| like I would have a hard time doing it while hiding my true
| motives. And what if they make an offer?
| safog wrote:
| I think practice interviews are a thing but people generally
| do it only when they're actively in the process of moving
| jobs.
|
| e.g., I want a job at Facebook, so I'm going to go interview
| at some random startups first for sharpness.
|
| I haven't heard of anyone actually taking that advice
| literally and just randomly giving out interviews even when
| they have no intention of actually moving from their jobs.
| johnmaguire wrote:
| I've always wondered about this too - I feel like I am
| wasting their time.
|
| > And what if they make an offer?
|
| I guess you choose whether to accept it or not. An offer does
| not oblige you to accept.
| axaxs wrote:
| I wouldn't feel that way. I'm one who did this for a
| while(at least, pre covid).
|
| The fact is, they could offer you an amazing package that
| will change your mind. Or, they could offer you something
| you expect but know you wouldn't take. Both are OK.
|
| I'd only think of it as a purposeful waste of time if for
| some reason you absolutely know you cannot take the job,
| regardless of anything.
| ssully wrote:
| Just be honest with yourself and them. Say that you have a
| job that you are happy with, but assessing other
| opportunities. If they make an offer, you should be able to
| decide if it's right for you or not and move truthfully from
| there.
| [deleted]
| Swizec wrote:
| If they make an offer that's motivating, you say yes and
| change jobs.
| codezero wrote:
| Here's how to align: even if you are not interested in
| joining, let them know what you would leave for, or a
| ballpark. If it's way unaligned then just don't continue past
| initial calls.
|
| I'll be disappointed if I make an offer and find out they
| leveraged it for a promotion, but usually you don't have to
| tell them anything. You can always say you just want more
| money and every company has a budget.
|
| You can also just keep in touch. Most folks who would make an
| offer are happy to talk to you again later or even further
| along in your career.
|
| I now have hired two people who I sent rejections to after
| four years!
|
| Some folks will frown on this but here is my philosophy: the
| company holds all the power, this is you as an individual
| developing an understanding of that system so it's not at all
| unfair, since it started unfairly tilted against candidates -
| not everyone will agree, but the good news is that you won't
| have to talk to the people who disagree again.
| delaynomore wrote:
| >I don't apply to places unless I am really confident I am
| definitely going to be the best candidate, and that's generally
| been true.
|
| Same. I've been extremely lucky that the only layoff I
| experienced was on first job out of school and on the first day
| ("we hired too many people").
|
| The worst rejection I experienced was for a consulting position
| with a Big 4 consulting firm 10+ years ago. I bombed the brain
| teaser/problem solving question in the last round (IIRC, why
| are manhole covers round?). I could tell the interview went
| downhill after that exchange. At the time I had no prior
| consulting experience therefore I really wanted to pivot into
| consulting with that opening.
|
| Come to think of it, I have never asked any brain teaser
| questions like that in any of the interviews I conducted -
| maybe that's why. :)
|
| >just get practice interviewing and learning how other
| companies run the process
|
| I did it a few times but never felt the experience is
| comparable to looking for work "for real".
| rapfaria wrote:
| I get it, and I think we've all been hurt. But why keep this
| list?
|
| I remember when I had a stellar year at a big corp. My manager
| said `nothing bad to report, wow`. I was ready for that S - a
| Special automatically meant a promotion.
|
| A few weeks later, when the whole R&D got the performance letter,
| I received mine with a C. D usually meant `demitido`, or fired in
| portuguese. I couldn't believe it, and I kept that letter through
| many years, just as a reminder of how you can get screwed by
| things that are not in your power.
|
| A few years later, when I saw the letter, I had a much better
| job, and was much happier. No good could come from seeing that
| letter from time to time, so I threw it away.
|
| As long as these things are living in your life, they are
| consuming you. The sooner you let them go, the sooner you'll be
| free
| throwmeaway_66 wrote:
| This is a very good comment. The fetishization of "failure" is
| a quite recent phenomenon that like many other communication
| workflows of the modern time has the implicit or explicit goals
| of making someone understood, commiserated, seen as naturally
| strong or "yes, I cried, but look how much stronger I am". A
| total waste of energy that to my eyes looks weak and entitled.
| Like when you read on, say, Twitter "my biology professor told
| me I had no chances of finishing high school, but now I have a
| PhD in molecular biology" - assuming it is true (and I many
| times doubt it is the whole story), are you really holding a
| grudge against a nobody in your life who said some words 15
| years ago?
|
| And that's why I use "failure" in quotes here and I never use
| the word in my life, except in some very specific contexts
| (e.g., machine failure). Anybody with ambitions in their lives
| gets rejected, dismissed and have things that don't work even
| if they cry in High Valyrian. Forget, move on, live large, not
| small.
| StephenAshmore wrote:
| There are many people that have a fear of rejection. A list
| like this helps to illustrate that it is okay to be rejected.
| You can be both successful, and have failed to nail an
| interview. The list seems purposely devised to help those who
| have that sort of problem, not as a list to remind him of his
| failures.
| rapfaria wrote:
| Agreed, it can help others.
| shortandsweet wrote:
| I actually agree with both of you, if that's possible.
| yosito wrote:
| This is a very short list of rejections. In my opinion, anyone
| who wants to have a successful career these days ought to expect
| at least an order of magnitude more rejections than this over the
| course of their career.
| decafninja wrote:
| Just got off a FB phone screen which I think I failed. Only got
| through one question, and even that required assistance from the
| interviewer. My understanding is that if you don't finish two
| problems, you're doomed.
|
| Spent the past week basically taking time off from work to do
| leetcode problems nonstop. Too bad it didn't help.
|
| Third time failing at FB. First time failed the phone screen in
| 2018. Passed phone screen last year but bombed the onsite. And
| now failed the third time on the phone screen.
|
| Also failed at Amazon (onsite), Netflix (twice - once on the
| phonescreen, once on the onsite), Uber (twice phonescreen),
| Microsoft (onsite). Got offers from Credit Karma and WeWork...how
| I dearly wish those offers were from any of the other companies I
| had failed at...
|
| Needless to say, I feel horrible.
| vjeux wrote:
| > Only got through one question, and even that required
| assistance from the interviewer. My understanding is that if
| you don't finish two problems, you're doomed.
|
| Different loops and interviewers conduct interviews in
| different ways. There is no "one problem" rule.
|
| Usually the questions are structured in layers where there's
| many follow-ups available. Based on the question, the
| interviewer, the loop, they can ask one problem or more. Unless
| you are the interviewer, it's not clear how far into the
| question you've been and what the expectations were. It is
| common to ask two questions though.
|
| Context: I have 300+ interviews at Facebook and been active in
| the whole process.
| decafninja wrote:
| Would be jawdropping pleasantly surprised if feedback came
| back positive, but I'm not hopeful. I do understand that
| miracles happen though.
|
| I completely, utterly, bombed my Microsoft phone screen - as
| in, I could not even get a basic brute force algo down. Yet I
| got invited to the onsite because the interviewer liked me
| for some non-technical reason.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| It's a good thing there are more than like 5 software companies
| to work at.
|
| And most of the smaller ones, while less prestigious, are
| probably just straight up better places to work.
| decafninja wrote:
| Of course. I will continue to interview.
|
| That said, the number of companies I would be willing to jump
| ship to from my current job (despite my gripes about it) is
| not that large. Certainly more than FAANG, but I'd say < 100.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| Every job I've ever had except one were for companies I had
| never even heard of before applying and usually in
| industries I'd no experience working in. One of the most
| rewarding parts of work for me is being able to shape the
| culture and future of a company even as an IC.
|
| Forgive me for the observation but it seems to me you've
| put big name companies on a pedestal as though they are
| objectively better jobs and maybe have some blinders on in
| terms of the real scope of opportunity that is out there.
|
| And if it's about pay, smaller companies can often pay well
| too.
| pmiller2 wrote:
| > Forgive me for the observation but it seems to me
| you've put big name companies on a pedestal as though
| they are objectively better jobs and maybe have some
| blinders on in terms of the real scope of opportunity
| that is out there.
|
| Except maybe for Uber, all those companies they listed
| failing at _are_ objectively better at attracting
| attention to your resume than some no name, smaller
| company nobody 's heard of.
| decafninja wrote:
| I'm open to entertaining any company really, but
| ultimately the question it boils down to is: "Is the new
| job/company good enough that I'd jump ship from my
| current job?"
|
| Not just pay of course, although I'd be lying if it
| wasn't a factor at all. I'd be willing to jump ship for
| the same (or even less) pay if other characteristics of
| the new company made it worthwhile.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| I'm very curious what characteristics you place value on
| then, if you're placing FAANG companies at or near the
| top of the list. My impression has always been that they
| would be pretty shitty to work for.
| decafninja wrote:
| Pay, Perks, People, Prestige, Projects, and just general
| work environment. Not necessarily in that order. Some of
| these are also subject to a sort of "compounding
| interest" for the rest of your career too that less known
| companies can't provide.
|
| I'm aware things aren't perfect rainbows and unicorns
| there (or really, at any company). But the friends and
| excoworkers who've gotten into FAANG, and similar
| companies, absolutely love it. And not just for the pay.
| Graffur wrote:
| What is amazing about how difficult these interviews are is
| that these companies (not including Netflix) put out bad
| products. Amazon Fire - terrible hardware, terrible software,
| Microsoft Windows ME, Windows Vista, Windows 8/8.1, etc etc
| [deleted]
| simmanian wrote:
| >Needless to say, I feel horrible.
|
| Is there a reason you want to get into those companies so
| badly? I personally don't practice leetcode, because my ROI on
| those types of problems is not really great, and I'd rather do
| things that I find to be more interesting with the time. This
| does mean that, when I interview, sometimes interviewers treat
| me like a child for not being able to reach optimal solutions
| for problems they know to be well known or simple. But I'm ok
| with that, because tech is an absolutely huge field, and there
| are companies out there that better fit me.
| the_only_law wrote:
| Not OP, but personally, the way I see it is the easiest way
| to break into "interesting" work (obviously that's subjective
| as hell) because the sheer amount of work available and the
| biggest hurdle being leetcode, whereas at equivalent
| positions at non-faangs for certain type of roles the hurdle
| seems to be having multi decade experience in some domain /
| education/ etc.
| decafninja wrote:
| I mentioned this in another reply too, but the ultimate
| question is whether or not a particular new job/company is
| worth jumping ship from my current job.
|
| I'd say little doubt, any of those aforementioned companies
| would be a "yes". I'm open minded about other companies - but
| again, it all boils down to that question. For Credit Karma
| and WeWork, where I did get offers, after interviewing there,
| the answer to that question I arrived at was "maybe" for the
| former (compensation was very lowballed), and "no" to the
| latter (weird culty vibes).
| goatinaboat wrote:
| _Third time failing at FB. First time failed the phone screen
| in 2018. Passed phone screen last year but bombed the onsite.
| And now failed the third time on the phone screen._
|
| Being rejected by Facebook in 2021 is probably a good thing
| decafninja wrote:
| Truth is, I am not as enamored about the company as I was
| before, and that's what I tell myself, but it's still sour
| grapes syndrome. It would still be an astronomical step up
| for me careerwise. I would literally throw away my senior SWE
| status to join any of the aforementioned companies as a
| junior SWE level.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| > I would literally throw away my senior SWE status to join
| any of the aforementioned companies as a junior SWE level.
|
| Sorry to say it but if I was a hiring manager and saw
| someone with senior experience applying for junior
| positions that's a red flag to me and I would be thinking
| they probably have big confidence problems.
| sjg007 wrote:
| The big companies just level you. So apply as a senior or
| junior and they level you. It's about alignment to the
| group more than anything.
| decafninja wrote:
| I don't do this, of course. I don't think
| companies/recruiters/HMs would even consider allowing me
| to. Although I think midlevel roles are more within reach
| (and many of the offers I've gotten were for such a
| level).
| sjg007 wrote:
| Join the data team or the enterprise engineering side. Or
| join as a solution architect. Maybe there's a business unit
| that needs software engineers but can't get them the normal
| way. Your senior engineer skills will go a lot further
| there than competing in the general engineering pool.
|
| I know these positions exist in all companies. Find the
| unseemly but necessary work and deliver. The current CEO of
| Google worked on Google Toolbar and turned that into
| Chrome.
|
| You could even go the contractor route for 2 years and try
| to lever that into a full time role.
|
| The other thing way would be to spend a year diligently
| leetcoding...
| decafninja wrote:
| My understanding and experience is that nearly all tech
| companies will still subject you to the whiteboard
| interviews for any role that involves coding, regardless
| of experience and even regardless of whether you have
| connections inside vouching for you.
|
| I've had great pre-interview conversations with hiring
| managers discussing technical topics, several concluding
| with them saying that they'd love to have me on their
| team. Have had friends/excoworkers vouching for me
| sometimes. Then I go screw up on the leetcode interview,
| and that ends the story.
|
| Pretty much have been drilling leetcode every day since
| my last failure at FB last year. (Bad) luck of the draw
| saw to it that I drew a question I couldn't tackle.
| goatinaboat wrote:
| _It would still be an astronomical step up for me
| careerwise. I would literally throw away my senior SWE
| status to join any of the aforementioned companies as a
| junior SWE level._
|
| It's still not worth sacrificing your moral compass, or if
| you prefer, your soul.
| gsibble wrote:
| As a serial entrepreneur who has raised money a bunch of times, I
| have absolutely lost count of how many angels and VCs have
| rejected the companies I've worked for (or founded) and been a
| part of the process with. Now they just roll off my back.
|
| Odd though how in other areas of life, rejections seem much more
| personal. I suppose there is a difference between a professional
| rejection vs a personal one.
| m33k44 wrote:
| The more interesting part of the whole post was this last line:
|
| "More rejections to come!"
|
| That's the spirit! Never give up :)
| davio wrote:
| One of the artists that revitalized part of Kansas City had all
| of his museum and gallery rejection letters as the wallpaper in
| his restaurant
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