[HN Gopher] All my career rejections
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       All my career rejections
        
       Author : azhenley
       Score  : 99 points
       Date   : 2021-03-22 18:27 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (web.eecs.utk.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (web.eecs.utk.edu)
        
       | colmvp wrote:
       | I had to accept a huge volume of rejection, both doing in job
       | applications (hundreds of applications) and online dating
       | (thousands). All the while being alone during Covid-19.
       | 
       | My advice to those who might be reading is to find a mentor or
       | best friend who you can update on your progress on a semi-regular
       | basis. Those people helped me so much to remain positive and
       | upbeat during the really disappointing moments of 2020. They can
       | also give feedback on your approaches.
       | 
       | The other tip is to accept it's going to feel terrible, but to
       | let the disappointment that you feel flow through you to help
       | move on.
        
       | slk500 wrote:
       | interesting, but better to keep that list for yourself
        
         | azhenley wrote:
         | Why? It would have helped me a lot when I was younger if more
         | "successful" people shared this info.
        
       | makach wrote:
       | The essence of this article is wonderful!
       | 
       | I've been rejected quite a few times as well. This is in fact so
       | inspiring that I will apply for another job that I most likely
       | will be rejected from as well.
       | 
       | You cannot win if you don't play the game.
        
       | filmgirlcw wrote:
       | I'm not going to rattle off my own career rejection list (though
       | I've definitely done in in talks I've given aimed at people about
       | to graduate from college), but I really appreciate this post.
       | 
       | I don't work in academia, but I know enough people that do to
       | know how rare it is to be open about what is a very rejection-
       | heavy industry, and I commend the author for putting that out
       | there!
        
       | revskill wrote:
       | Good love to see more details on the Why rejects from them.
        
         | pmiller2 wrote:
         | Good luck getting the truth out of any company about why they
         | rejected a candidate.
        
       | jdorfman wrote:
       | We should all post ours here. I'll start:
       | 
       | * Google * Amazon/AWS (interviewed by Jeff Barr and tbh, I was
       | starstruck) * Cloudflare * EdgeCast * Twitter * GitLab * GitHub *
       | Linux Foundation * Wikimedia * DigitalOcean * Snyk
        
         | jibbers wrote:
         | Since I began keeping track, about two years ago, I've applied
         | to 605 jobs, rejected by 328, and the rest didn't even bother
         | to send me a robo-rejection email. Is there any value in
         | posting my list?
        
       | inertiatic wrote:
       | The article/blog post itself seems a bit pointless, minimal
       | content and comes along as more of a humble brag. However I guess
       | it triggers discussion so it's not without value entirely.
       | 
       | I have experienced countless rejections. Tens to hundreds every
       | time I switch jobs. After just a few of these, you realize no one
       | knows how to hire and just laugh at the absurdity of this
       | profession.
        
         | nautilus12 wrote:
         | Ooohh you sound like you could out humble brag them. Humble
         | brag off!
        
         | alexashka wrote:
         | It has that 'if I can do it, you can too' that people who don't
         | know how the world works but base their life around what other
         | people are doing/saying absolutely love, because it gives them
         | hope.
         | 
         | The more people sharing 'started from the bottom now we here'
         | without mentioning the likelihood of it happening, the more
         | people love it. Delusional, yet simple self serving beliefs
         | have a snowball effect without fail - I'd wager Western culture
         | is almost entirely made up of them at this point, which has
         | some interesting consequences.
        
       | jbluepolarbear wrote:
       | I've had a lot of rejections in my career and I have learned that
       | the best advantage I have that I can bring to an interview is my
       | conversation skills. I may not be as good as another engineer on
       | paper, but if I can get an interview that usually changes.
        
       | gnarbarian wrote:
       | Success may only come once out of every 100 times you try. So you
       | better get over failing and iterate quickly if you want to make
       | it. Fail fast so you can move on.
       | 
       | Interviewing is a skill just like talking to women. you need
       | practice before you will succeed. And practice necessarily means
       | rejection.
       | 
       | People who are afraid to fail will never succeed. They put too
       | much weight on a particular thing and then are crushed when it
       | doesn't pan out. You have to get to the point where rejection and
       | failure don't hurt. Just add another data point to your corpus of
       | life experience. Then magically you start to succeed and your
       | success will snowball.
        
       | ArtWomb wrote:
       | Very interesting that your focus is "IDE research". Not sure I've
       | encountered that before! One reason for the rejections may be
       | that in industry, from what I've seen, dev and cloud tools are
       | managed by more "soft skills" people. Masters in Psychology types
       | may be more the candidate they seek. I suppose the thinking is
       | that to gain mass adoption they have to be less engineer designed
       | and more user friendly ;)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | eyelidlessness wrote:
       | I've been incredibly fortunate to have few rejections in my
       | career. Off the top of my head:
       | 
       | - Google (the feeling was mutual)
       | 
       | - GitHub, if you count no response as a rejection
       | 
       | - I likely would have been rejected by Microsoft, but I ended the
       | interview early
       | 
       | That said, I've been even more fortunate to have established
       | great working relationships with peers, mentors and mentees,
       | which has helped me get all but my first job and the one I'm
       | likely to start next.
       | 
       | In a sense, the amount of nepotism in the industry is probably a
       | barrier to many, which I'm sensitive to. But these working
       | relationships aren't the only way to establish good connections.
       | I've seen people do very well by just attending meetups related
       | to some aspect of the industry they find interesting.
       | 
       | That's still a barrier for people who don't have the time to
       | devote (or wait), but for anyone who does have the time and wants
       | to improve their prospects I highly encourage giving it a try.
        
       | daveslash wrote:
       | I entered the professional workforce in the fall of 2008, as the
       | recession was in full force. I had a college degree, but no
       | experience or resume of which to speak - and frankly, didn't know
       | very much outside of academia. I was lucky enough to land a job,
       | but was laid off in fall of 2009. I was poor, sleeping on an air
       | mattress, and in my early 20s, but determined to get a job as a
       | software engineer, even if it meant taking a non software job for
       | a while. This was before I knew that job-recruiters were a thing,
       | or how to make connections with them, and before Linked-In had
       | taken off. I made sure to apply for 10 jobs online, by going to
       | companies "apply" pages, _every-singly-day_. I did this for two
       | full months (weekends excluded). That 's 400 applications. I only
       | got 5 interviews, and only 1 job offer. That's 399 rejections.
       | 
       | I'm doing well now - but those were rough times for me. When my
       | teenager feels rejected (e.g. not making the team), I always tell
       | them that rejection is always a bummer, but not the end of the
       | world. And I gently remind them of that story as a way of saying
       | *"trust me, I'm not saying that as empty words; I do understand
       | how it feels."
        
         | filmgirlcw wrote:
         | I entered the workforce at the same time. I don't have kids so
         | I can't relate to that aspect, but I speak to lots of college
         | students and career-switchers and like you, I always note that
         | I'm coming from a place of knowledge. I've been mentoring a lot
         | of recent grads over the last year and with the pandemic, the
         | uncertainty in the job market is very reminiscent of 2008 and I
         | know what it was like to graduate into a pit of "what am I
         | going to do?" And the answer is usually, "it'll be fine.
         | Probably."
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jart wrote:
         | Rejection is a strong word to use when some algorithm didn't
         | find the keyword it was looking for. Not getting an offer after
         | interviewing isn't really so bad either since it's a learning
         | opportunity where you get to meet people and ask questions.
         | Before covid it usually meant you got a free vacation too.
        
           | grayclhn wrote:
           | Yeah, not in 2008.
        
         | a_brawling_boo wrote:
         | That is so similar to what happened to me, only I had graduated
         | December 2006. So I had 1.5 years until it went south and got
         | laid off. Luckily I had acquired a condo in that time at the
         | market peak, so I had a place to lay awake at night and worry
         | about how I'd pay the mortgage.
        
           | tmnstr85 wrote:
           | This right here is the goods... only thing that would make
           | this better is if it was a variable interest mortgage
        
       | zabzonk wrote:
       | Possibly more interesting if information on acceptances was also
       | provided.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | cabernal wrote:
         | His CV is linked in there.
        
           | pedrosorio wrote:
           | The CV only contains a subset of all acceptances
        
             | d33lio wrote:
             | Not to be harsh, but maybe this guy just isn't a good
             | engineer / academic? This is why I switched from EE to CS,
             | I found it far more interesting and could execute doing
             | software stuff at a very high level even with my piss poor
             | academic record. Never do something you're mediocre at,
             | life just isn't going to be a good time if that's your
             | approach. Tbh, if I was this guy I would've just switched
             | industries and done something I was objectively better at.
             | I quit EE because without a doubt I would've been a C-level
             | electrical engineer at best.
        
               | the_only_law wrote:
               | > Never do something you're mediocre at, life just isn't
               | going to be a good time if that's your approach.
               | 
               | What happens when you're mediocre at everything.
        
               | azhenley wrote:
               | I never thought I was bad at my job and I have
               | equal/higher acceptance rates than my friends, but thanks
               | for the vote of confidence! Rejection is _very_ common in
               | academia and I wish people talked about it more.
        
               | filmgirlcw wrote:
               | Thank you for writing about it! It's very common in tech
               | too but people don't talk about that either (though
               | academia is objectively more competitive; you have far
               | fewer tenure-track slots, compared to even a major
               | "elite" tech company that employs over 100,000 people).
               | 
               | It's important for people to see that those who have
               | succeeded have failed too.
        
               | filmgirlcw wrote:
               | I think that's pretty harsh. Perhaps he's not the best
               | SWE candidate at a FAANG or FAANG-like place -- but he's
               | in a tenure-track position at a school that is top 40ish
               | for public universities (averaging both engineering and
               | computer science in undergrad rankings), which is hardly
               | something to "switch industries" over.
               | 
               | We do ourselves a major disservice by pretending that
               | only having an academic position at the top five or ten
               | schools or a job at one of the top five or six tech
               | companies is the only way to achieve success.
        
       | plank_time wrote:
       | I've been rejected 5 times from Google. And yet every year like
       | clockwork they email me again asking to interview. At this point
       | I just say yes every couple of years and try again because why
       | not. I think I do well enough to deserve a call-back but never
       | good enough to get hired (I made it to the hiring committee
       | though).
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | throwawaypqr123 wrote:
         | Throwaway because reasons.
         | 
         | I "failed" my first four (edit: onsite) FANG interviews. 5th
         | time was a charm, have been happily employed with a senior
         | title at FANG for a couple years.
         | 
         | Not exactly new information to HN, but the job itself is quite
         | a bit easier than the interviews (wrt to technical knowledge).
         | It can be just as stressful though (I actually think stress
         | response / teamwork is one of the main things FANG interviewers
         | are looking for after a certain bar of technical competence is
         | met, YMMV).
         | 
         | This isn't for everyone, but if it's something you really want
         | to do, don't let the rejections get you down. You'll get in
         | eventually :)
        
           | decafninja wrote:
           | Hearing stuff like this gives me hope, but still the
           | experience is frustrating. I suppose for argument's sake, you
           | can theoretically interview at each of the letters in FAANG
           | every year. Just blew my attempt at the F for 2021, so trying
           | to reach out to the rest of the letters (and some other
           | companies).
        
             | throwawaypqr123 wrote:
             | Oh agreed it's super frustrating. A lot of times you won't
             | even get any feedback with the rejection, which is
             | incredibly demotivating and tbqh, infuriating.
             | 
             | > you can theoretically interview at each of the letters in
             | FAANG every year
             | 
             | One of those letters will let you interview many times in a
             | single year ;) (but not for the same role on the same team)
             | 
             | If I had any final advice for those intent on going through
             | the interview meat grinder it is that while l33tcode can be
             | useful, you'll still want to understand some of the why
             | behind popular algorithms and not just have a ton of
             | specific ones memorized. This will save you when you have
             | to talk through a problem you're not already familiar with.
             | 
             | Skiena's The Algorithm Design Manual was more helpful to me
             | than any other prep material in that regard.
        
               | decafninja wrote:
               | Would that that be F & N? :)
               | 
               | I know you can interview at multiple roles at FB provided
               | 1.) you pass the initial phone screen and 2.) the onsite
               | loop is different - say, frontend vs. product/backend.
               | Doesn't work for me this year since I likely failed the
               | phonescreen...
               | 
               | I've heard in theory you can apply to multiple jobs at N
               | too.
        
         | Spooky23 wrote:
         | I've had that happen a couple of times. Do a video/phone call
         | with an SME that goes really well... then it doesn't.
         | 
         | The second time they were locking down a time I could fly
         | somewhere and the whole thing went poof. Fortunately I was in a
         | good job and it was no big deal, but it would have been very
         | stressful if I was between gigs.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | cweill wrote:
         | I got rejected twice, and got an offer on my third try over the
         | course of 3 years. If it's something your really want, don't
         | give up. Also see the "interview anti-loop" http://steve-
         | yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-goog...
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | codezero wrote:
       | Interesting to see the differences in people. I've had a long
       | career with very few rejections, but it has a lot to do with the
       | fact that I don't apply to places unless I am really confident I
       | am definitely going to be the best candidate, and that's
       | generally been true.
       | 
       | That said, I encourage folks on my team to interview regularly
       | just to know how to value themselves and to see that there are
       | other opportunities, and to just get practice interviewing and
       | learning how other companies run the process.
       | 
       | My rejections:
       | 
       | - laid off from Red Hat post dot-bomb (I wasn't really trying to
       | stay at the time) ~ 2003
       | 
       | - rejected for a sysadmin position at Blizzard in around 2003 or
       | 4?
       | 
       | - rejected from a lot of PhD programs in Physics (I wasn't really
       | trying that hard, see a theme, it's called cognitive dissonance!)
       | ~ 2008
       | 
       | - fired from Quora (honestly really just ended up misaligned with
       | my boss and career goals, they made the right call) ~ 2014
       | 
       | - rejected from Stripe with two personal referrals after the last
       | stage of the interview. I was pretty bummed by this and had spent
       | a month putting all my eggs in one basket to work there. This was
       | 2014 so I also missed out on a nice bit of stock to be honest!
       | 
       | At my current company I feel like I finally had enough continuity
       | to specialize a bit and become an expert in a field to feel
       | comfortable with what ever may come next. I hope others can find
       | that in their careers too.
        
         | esel2k wrote:
         | If you only applied to positions you knew where the best
         | candidate - how did you not feel that the job would not offer
         | you new challenges or the position is too low?
         | 
         | I tend to keep interviewing or lets call it networking. The
         | position I did fit a 100% I ended up declining as they were
         | mostly position I thought I would go downwards in my career and
         | pay, even if it sounded interesting.
         | 
         | Glad you found that place of continuity - still trying to get
         | there...
        
           | chrisseaton wrote:
           | > I tend to keep interviewing or lets call it networking.
           | 
           | Do you not find interviewing is super expensive in terms of
           | time? My last interview was a four-day trip and about 40
           | hours of prep time before that.
           | 
           | If I interviewed more than once or twice a year it'd be an
           | enormous time sink. Maybe it pays off for you because you
           | think the networking benefits are so high?
        
           | codezero wrote:
           | For me it was a few lucky coincidences.
           | 
           | I've never had concrete career goals, that's step one of not
           | being bothered by challenges.
           | 
           | Step two, I've always worked at startups in relatively
           | emerging markets, which means they are inherently new and
           | challenging and that has fed that challenge/growth that I
           | seek even though not necessarily tied to career growth
           | explicitly.
           | 
           | I've only started in my 40s to care about long term career
           | growth, so go figure.
           | 
           | I think the short answer is I'm highly internally motivated
           | and seek out challenges no matter what so it's not a thing I
           | usually worry about.
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | It looks like it's pretty common to go interview just to "keep
         | the skills sharp." What do folks think of this practice? I feel
         | like I would have a hard time doing it while hiding my true
         | motives. And what if they make an offer?
        
           | safog wrote:
           | I think practice interviews are a thing but people generally
           | do it only when they're actively in the process of moving
           | jobs.
           | 
           | e.g., I want a job at Facebook, so I'm going to go interview
           | at some random startups first for sharpness.
           | 
           | I haven't heard of anyone actually taking that advice
           | literally and just randomly giving out interviews even when
           | they have no intention of actually moving from their jobs.
        
           | johnmaguire wrote:
           | I've always wondered about this too - I feel like I am
           | wasting their time.
           | 
           | > And what if they make an offer?
           | 
           | I guess you choose whether to accept it or not. An offer does
           | not oblige you to accept.
        
             | axaxs wrote:
             | I wouldn't feel that way. I'm one who did this for a
             | while(at least, pre covid).
             | 
             | The fact is, they could offer you an amazing package that
             | will change your mind. Or, they could offer you something
             | you expect but know you wouldn't take. Both are OK.
             | 
             | I'd only think of it as a purposeful waste of time if for
             | some reason you absolutely know you cannot take the job,
             | regardless of anything.
        
           | ssully wrote:
           | Just be honest with yourself and them. Say that you have a
           | job that you are happy with, but assessing other
           | opportunities. If they make an offer, you should be able to
           | decide if it's right for you or not and move truthfully from
           | there.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Swizec wrote:
           | If they make an offer that's motivating, you say yes and
           | change jobs.
        
           | codezero wrote:
           | Here's how to align: even if you are not interested in
           | joining, let them know what you would leave for, or a
           | ballpark. If it's way unaligned then just don't continue past
           | initial calls.
           | 
           | I'll be disappointed if I make an offer and find out they
           | leveraged it for a promotion, but usually you don't have to
           | tell them anything. You can always say you just want more
           | money and every company has a budget.
           | 
           | You can also just keep in touch. Most folks who would make an
           | offer are happy to talk to you again later or even further
           | along in your career.
           | 
           | I now have hired two people who I sent rejections to after
           | four years!
           | 
           | Some folks will frown on this but here is my philosophy: the
           | company holds all the power, this is you as an individual
           | developing an understanding of that system so it's not at all
           | unfair, since it started unfairly tilted against candidates -
           | not everyone will agree, but the good news is that you won't
           | have to talk to the people who disagree again.
        
         | delaynomore wrote:
         | >I don't apply to places unless I am really confident I am
         | definitely going to be the best candidate, and that's generally
         | been true.
         | 
         | Same. I've been extremely lucky that the only layoff I
         | experienced was on first job out of school and on the first day
         | ("we hired too many people").
         | 
         | The worst rejection I experienced was for a consulting position
         | with a Big 4 consulting firm 10+ years ago. I bombed the brain
         | teaser/problem solving question in the last round (IIRC, why
         | are manhole covers round?). I could tell the interview went
         | downhill after that exchange. At the time I had no prior
         | consulting experience therefore I really wanted to pivot into
         | consulting with that opening.
         | 
         | Come to think of it, I have never asked any brain teaser
         | questions like that in any of the interviews I conducted -
         | maybe that's why. :)
         | 
         | >just get practice interviewing and learning how other
         | companies run the process
         | 
         | I did it a few times but never felt the experience is
         | comparable to looking for work "for real".
        
       | rapfaria wrote:
       | I get it, and I think we've all been hurt. But why keep this
       | list?
       | 
       | I remember when I had a stellar year at a big corp. My manager
       | said `nothing bad to report, wow`. I was ready for that S - a
       | Special automatically meant a promotion.
       | 
       | A few weeks later, when the whole R&D got the performance letter,
       | I received mine with a C. D usually meant `demitido`, or fired in
       | portuguese. I couldn't believe it, and I kept that letter through
       | many years, just as a reminder of how you can get screwed by
       | things that are not in your power.
       | 
       | A few years later, when I saw the letter, I had a much better
       | job, and was much happier. No good could come from seeing that
       | letter from time to time, so I threw it away.
       | 
       | As long as these things are living in your life, they are
       | consuming you. The sooner you let them go, the sooner you'll be
       | free
        
         | throwmeaway_66 wrote:
         | This is a very good comment. The fetishization of "failure" is
         | a quite recent phenomenon that like many other communication
         | workflows of the modern time has the implicit or explicit goals
         | of making someone understood, commiserated, seen as naturally
         | strong or "yes, I cried, but look how much stronger I am". A
         | total waste of energy that to my eyes looks weak and entitled.
         | Like when you read on, say, Twitter "my biology professor told
         | me I had no chances of finishing high school, but now I have a
         | PhD in molecular biology" - assuming it is true (and I many
         | times doubt it is the whole story), are you really holding a
         | grudge against a nobody in your life who said some words 15
         | years ago?
         | 
         | And that's why I use "failure" in quotes here and I never use
         | the word in my life, except in some very specific contexts
         | (e.g., machine failure). Anybody with ambitions in their lives
         | gets rejected, dismissed and have things that don't work even
         | if they cry in High Valyrian. Forget, move on, live large, not
         | small.
        
         | StephenAshmore wrote:
         | There are many people that have a fear of rejection. A list
         | like this helps to illustrate that it is okay to be rejected.
         | You can be both successful, and have failed to nail an
         | interview. The list seems purposely devised to help those who
         | have that sort of problem, not as a list to remind him of his
         | failures.
        
           | rapfaria wrote:
           | Agreed, it can help others.
        
             | shortandsweet wrote:
             | I actually agree with both of you, if that's possible.
        
       | yosito wrote:
       | This is a very short list of rejections. In my opinion, anyone
       | who wants to have a successful career these days ought to expect
       | at least an order of magnitude more rejections than this over the
       | course of their career.
        
       | decafninja wrote:
       | Just got off a FB phone screen which I think I failed. Only got
       | through one question, and even that required assistance from the
       | interviewer. My understanding is that if you don't finish two
       | problems, you're doomed.
       | 
       | Spent the past week basically taking time off from work to do
       | leetcode problems nonstop. Too bad it didn't help.
       | 
       | Third time failing at FB. First time failed the phone screen in
       | 2018. Passed phone screen last year but bombed the onsite. And
       | now failed the third time on the phone screen.
       | 
       | Also failed at Amazon (onsite), Netflix (twice - once on the
       | phonescreen, once on the onsite), Uber (twice phonescreen),
       | Microsoft (onsite). Got offers from Credit Karma and WeWork...how
       | I dearly wish those offers were from any of the other companies I
       | had failed at...
       | 
       | Needless to say, I feel horrible.
        
         | vjeux wrote:
         | > Only got through one question, and even that required
         | assistance from the interviewer. My understanding is that if
         | you don't finish two problems, you're doomed.
         | 
         | Different loops and interviewers conduct interviews in
         | different ways. There is no "one problem" rule.
         | 
         | Usually the questions are structured in layers where there's
         | many follow-ups available. Based on the question, the
         | interviewer, the loop, they can ask one problem or more. Unless
         | you are the interviewer, it's not clear how far into the
         | question you've been and what the expectations were. It is
         | common to ask two questions though.
         | 
         | Context: I have 300+ interviews at Facebook and been active in
         | the whole process.
        
           | decafninja wrote:
           | Would be jawdropping pleasantly surprised if feedback came
           | back positive, but I'm not hopeful. I do understand that
           | miracles happen though.
           | 
           | I completely, utterly, bombed my Microsoft phone screen - as
           | in, I could not even get a basic brute force algo down. Yet I
           | got invited to the onsite because the interviewer liked me
           | for some non-technical reason.
        
         | bluefirebrand wrote:
         | It's a good thing there are more than like 5 software companies
         | to work at.
         | 
         | And most of the smaller ones, while less prestigious, are
         | probably just straight up better places to work.
        
           | decafninja wrote:
           | Of course. I will continue to interview.
           | 
           | That said, the number of companies I would be willing to jump
           | ship to from my current job (despite my gripes about it) is
           | not that large. Certainly more than FAANG, but I'd say < 100.
        
             | bluefirebrand wrote:
             | Every job I've ever had except one were for companies I had
             | never even heard of before applying and usually in
             | industries I'd no experience working in. One of the most
             | rewarding parts of work for me is being able to shape the
             | culture and future of a company even as an IC.
             | 
             | Forgive me for the observation but it seems to me you've
             | put big name companies on a pedestal as though they are
             | objectively better jobs and maybe have some blinders on in
             | terms of the real scope of opportunity that is out there.
             | 
             | And if it's about pay, smaller companies can often pay well
             | too.
        
               | pmiller2 wrote:
               | > Forgive me for the observation but it seems to me
               | you've put big name companies on a pedestal as though
               | they are objectively better jobs and maybe have some
               | blinders on in terms of the real scope of opportunity
               | that is out there.
               | 
               | Except maybe for Uber, all those companies they listed
               | failing at _are_ objectively better at attracting
               | attention to your resume than some no name, smaller
               | company nobody 's heard of.
        
               | decafninja wrote:
               | I'm open to entertaining any company really, but
               | ultimately the question it boils down to is: "Is the new
               | job/company good enough that I'd jump ship from my
               | current job?"
               | 
               | Not just pay of course, although I'd be lying if it
               | wasn't a factor at all. I'd be willing to jump ship for
               | the same (or even less) pay if other characteristics of
               | the new company made it worthwhile.
        
               | bluefirebrand wrote:
               | I'm very curious what characteristics you place value on
               | then, if you're placing FAANG companies at or near the
               | top of the list. My impression has always been that they
               | would be pretty shitty to work for.
        
               | decafninja wrote:
               | Pay, Perks, People, Prestige, Projects, and just general
               | work environment. Not necessarily in that order. Some of
               | these are also subject to a sort of "compounding
               | interest" for the rest of your career too that less known
               | companies can't provide.
               | 
               | I'm aware things aren't perfect rainbows and unicorns
               | there (or really, at any company). But the friends and
               | excoworkers who've gotten into FAANG, and similar
               | companies, absolutely love it. And not just for the pay.
        
         | Graffur wrote:
         | What is amazing about how difficult these interviews are is
         | that these companies (not including Netflix) put out bad
         | products. Amazon Fire - terrible hardware, terrible software,
         | Microsoft Windows ME, Windows Vista, Windows 8/8.1, etc etc
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | simmanian wrote:
         | >Needless to say, I feel horrible.
         | 
         | Is there a reason you want to get into those companies so
         | badly? I personally don't practice leetcode, because my ROI on
         | those types of problems is not really great, and I'd rather do
         | things that I find to be more interesting with the time. This
         | does mean that, when I interview, sometimes interviewers treat
         | me like a child for not being able to reach optimal solutions
         | for problems they know to be well known or simple. But I'm ok
         | with that, because tech is an absolutely huge field, and there
         | are companies out there that better fit me.
        
           | the_only_law wrote:
           | Not OP, but personally, the way I see it is the easiest way
           | to break into "interesting" work (obviously that's subjective
           | as hell) because the sheer amount of work available and the
           | biggest hurdle being leetcode, whereas at equivalent
           | positions at non-faangs for certain type of roles the hurdle
           | seems to be having multi decade experience in some domain /
           | education/ etc.
        
           | decafninja wrote:
           | I mentioned this in another reply too, but the ultimate
           | question is whether or not a particular new job/company is
           | worth jumping ship from my current job.
           | 
           | I'd say little doubt, any of those aforementioned companies
           | would be a "yes". I'm open minded about other companies - but
           | again, it all boils down to that question. For Credit Karma
           | and WeWork, where I did get offers, after interviewing there,
           | the answer to that question I arrived at was "maybe" for the
           | former (compensation was very lowballed), and "no" to the
           | latter (weird culty vibes).
        
         | goatinaboat wrote:
         | _Third time failing at FB. First time failed the phone screen
         | in 2018. Passed phone screen last year but bombed the onsite.
         | And now failed the third time on the phone screen._
         | 
         | Being rejected by Facebook in 2021 is probably a good thing
        
           | decafninja wrote:
           | Truth is, I am not as enamored about the company as I was
           | before, and that's what I tell myself, but it's still sour
           | grapes syndrome. It would still be an astronomical step up
           | for me careerwise. I would literally throw away my senior SWE
           | status to join any of the aforementioned companies as a
           | junior SWE level.
        
             | bluefirebrand wrote:
             | > I would literally throw away my senior SWE status to join
             | any of the aforementioned companies as a junior SWE level.
             | 
             | Sorry to say it but if I was a hiring manager and saw
             | someone with senior experience applying for junior
             | positions that's a red flag to me and I would be thinking
             | they probably have big confidence problems.
        
               | sjg007 wrote:
               | The big companies just level you. So apply as a senior or
               | junior and they level you. It's about alignment to the
               | group more than anything.
        
               | decafninja wrote:
               | I don't do this, of course. I don't think
               | companies/recruiters/HMs would even consider allowing me
               | to. Although I think midlevel roles are more within reach
               | (and many of the offers I've gotten were for such a
               | level).
        
             | sjg007 wrote:
             | Join the data team or the enterprise engineering side. Or
             | join as a solution architect. Maybe there's a business unit
             | that needs software engineers but can't get them the normal
             | way. Your senior engineer skills will go a lot further
             | there than competing in the general engineering pool.
             | 
             | I know these positions exist in all companies. Find the
             | unseemly but necessary work and deliver. The current CEO of
             | Google worked on Google Toolbar and turned that into
             | Chrome.
             | 
             | You could even go the contractor route for 2 years and try
             | to lever that into a full time role.
             | 
             | The other thing way would be to spend a year diligently
             | leetcoding...
        
               | decafninja wrote:
               | My understanding and experience is that nearly all tech
               | companies will still subject you to the whiteboard
               | interviews for any role that involves coding, regardless
               | of experience and even regardless of whether you have
               | connections inside vouching for you.
               | 
               | I've had great pre-interview conversations with hiring
               | managers discussing technical topics, several concluding
               | with them saying that they'd love to have me on their
               | team. Have had friends/excoworkers vouching for me
               | sometimes. Then I go screw up on the leetcode interview,
               | and that ends the story.
               | 
               | Pretty much have been drilling leetcode every day since
               | my last failure at FB last year. (Bad) luck of the draw
               | saw to it that I drew a question I couldn't tackle.
        
             | goatinaboat wrote:
             | _It would still be an astronomical step up for me
             | careerwise. I would literally throw away my senior SWE
             | status to join any of the aforementioned companies as a
             | junior SWE level._
             | 
             | It's still not worth sacrificing your moral compass, or if
             | you prefer, your soul.
        
       | gsibble wrote:
       | As a serial entrepreneur who has raised money a bunch of times, I
       | have absolutely lost count of how many angels and VCs have
       | rejected the companies I've worked for (or founded) and been a
       | part of the process with. Now they just roll off my back.
       | 
       | Odd though how in other areas of life, rejections seem much more
       | personal. I suppose there is a difference between a professional
       | rejection vs a personal one.
        
       | m33k44 wrote:
       | The more interesting part of the whole post was this last line:
       | 
       | "More rejections to come!"
       | 
       | That's the spirit! Never give up :)
        
       | davio wrote:
       | One of the artists that revitalized part of Kansas City had all
       | of his museum and gallery rejection letters as the wallpaper in
       | his restaurant
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-03-22 23:03 UTC)