[HN Gopher] Mouse plague grows to biblical proportions across ea...
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       Mouse plague grows to biblical proportions across eastern Australia
        
       Author : YeGoblynQueenne
       Score  : 104 points
       Date   : 2021-03-20 11:44 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | senectus1 wrote:
       | I lived in Kalgoorlie when a mouse plague went through there for
       | a year or two... was pretty bad.
       | 
       | the memory of the smell alone still turns my stomach. Mouse pee
       | is rank.
        
       | syntaxing wrote:
       | Honestly thought it was an exaggerated title but reading the
       | article says otherwise. That's a lot of mouse. Is it because the
       | habitat is missing the right predators due to climate change?
        
         | tbihl wrote:
         | Can't speak to that particular environment, but the explosion
         | of lyme disease in Northeastern US over the past few decades or
         | so. Lyme disease is passed by deer ticks which largely live off
         | of mice, which have had decades of under-predation and good
         | fortune as suburbanization creates miniature grasslands that
         | are too disjointed to support the predators that should be
         | eating them.
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | Another theory re: Lyme disease is that the reforestation of
           | old farmlands supports a higher deer population. Deer (or
           | other large hosts: bear, moose, etc) are an essential part of
           | the deer tick lifecycle, which in turn supports the spread of
           | the bacterium that causes Lyme disease.
           | 
           | New England has more forest area today than it has since the
           | 1700s.
        
             | war1025 wrote:
             | I have a coworker that recently moved from near Boston to
             | southern Massachusetts. Absolutely boggles my mind the
             | amount of wildlife he comes across. I thought the East
             | coast was basically fully urbanized.
        
         | TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
         | Mice only came to Australia about two centuries ago. The
         | ecology has been ruined by imported species.
        
         | strken wrote:
         | A mouse population spike happens every summer/autumn in the
         | wheat belt during and after the harvest. I don't think this
         | year's numbers have anything to do with predator populations,
         | it's probably just warm weather and a good harvest.
        
       | vidanay wrote:
       | What's the root cause? Not enough birds of prey?
        
         | Y_Y wrote:
         | Too many mice.
        
         | stan_rogers wrote:
         | The introduction of mice is the root cause. They're not an
         | indigenous species.
        
       | stareatgoats wrote:
       | This seems to be a recurring occurrence in Australia. China is
       | the other country to experience this with some regularity.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_plagues_in_Australia
       | 
       | Interestingly, Australia was home to another, similar explosion
       | of small mammals with high reproductive rates and no or few
       | natural enemies: The rabbit plagues. This seems however largely
       | to have been contained with the release of several viruses that
       | targets rabbits.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_plagues_in_Australia
        
         | hourislate wrote:
         | There is the Dingo, which interesting enough was introduced a
         | few thousand years ago and is not native to Australia. Then
         | some time in the 1800's they introduced 24 rabbits because they
         | thought it would be fun to hunt and that didn't turn out to
         | well. And if that wasn't enough they introduced Camels which
         | now number in the millions. I am wondering what's next?
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | > the Dingo, which interesting enough was introduced a few
           | thousand years ago and is not native to Australia.
           | 
           | This is a pretty stunning standard. By this standard, most of
           | Africa has no native population. Most life anywhere would not
           | qualify as "native".
        
             | nyolfen wrote:
             | a few thousand years is not that long; humans have been in
             | africa for millions of years and australia for at least
             | 45k. interestingly the dingo looks very similar to many
             | other breeds of feral dogs across the world, from the
             | carolina dog on the american atlantic coast to the jungle-
             | dwelling new guinea singing dog. its form is something like
             | the primordial state of c. familiaris, with probable
             | climactic adaptations.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | Well, humans are only considered to date back about
               | 200,000 years, so "millions of years" is stretching it.
               | 
               | Hominids have been in Africa for millions of years, but
               | the Bantu Expansion is just a few thousand years old. It
               | is younger than recorded history -- we have Egyptian
               | records of the peoples to their south, with whom they
               | traded; those people are extinct today. The Bantus
               | reached South Africa at about the same time Europeans
               | did! They colonized it much more successfully, though,
               | largely wiping out the Khoisan who were there before.
        
               | nyolfen wrote:
               | anatomically modern humans are thought to date to about
               | 200kya, but early humans like h. erectus go back much
               | further
        
           | daemin wrote:
           | You forgot cane toads, foxes, cats, wild pigs/boar, water
           | buffalo, and horses. All are non-native and cause damage to
           | the native animals and environment.
           | 
           | People have introduced a lot of animals for their own
           | purposes which are not native to the continent and are now
           | pests in some way.
        
             | fian wrote:
             | Deer, donkeys, dogs (domestic distinct from Dingoes),
             | goats, plus multiple bird and fish species, insects and
             | plants:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species_in_Australia
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | laurent92 wrote:
           | And literally mixomatosis was researched and "created" circa
           | 1850 to get rid of said Australian rabbits. According to my
           | failing memory, it goes like this: In 2 years 95% Australian
           | rabbits died, and 5% were resisting. Obviously the population
           | regrew. And the researcher tried to bring it back home in UK
           | to get rid of the rabbits in his garden. He succeeded... to
           | kill 95% rabbits of England. Which regrew from the resisting
           | 5%. And same from France.
           | 
           | It's the disease that makes rabbit have red eyes (very easy
           | to spot from far away). But beware, I'm storytelling from
           | memory, huge details must be wrong.
        
         | bradrn wrote:
         | I'm not sure 'contained' is quite the right word to use here.
         | Perhaps populations might be less than what they used to be,
         | but where I live in Sydney, you can barely walk across the road
         | without seeing at least a couple of rabbits. We certainly see
         | more of them than we do of wallabies, possums or any other of
         | the stereotypical Australian animals.
        
       | gremlinsinc wrote:
       | If only they could militarize the emu's against the mice armies.
       | 
       | I'd buy tickets to Emu war part deux.
        
         | Darmody wrote:
         | What if emus and mice unite against the human invader? Aussies
         | wouldn't stand a chance.
        
       | JoshTko wrote:
       | This is one of the result of climate crisis. As complex
       | environments get disrupted over time they become less and less
       | diverse allowing for more booms and busts of single species. The
       | wildfires last year probably wiped out a lot of the mice
       | predators.
        
         | offby37years wrote:
         | When you only have a hammer...
        
         | Zhenya wrote:
         | Maybe!
         | 
         | But also mice are not native to australia and here is a list of
         | plagues of mice in australia since the 1800s
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_plagues_in_Australia
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | fatsdomino001 wrote:
         | This reminds me that much of the talk around climate change
         | can't be considered scientific because it's simply not
         | falsifiable. If everything can be attributable to climate
         | change, nothing can be.
        
       | ourcat wrote:
       | I wonder if this is in any way related to the Australian
       | Government deciding in 2015 to try to kill two million feral cats
       | by 2020.
       | 
       | https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/25/magazine/australia-cat-ki...
        
         | yumraj wrote:
         | That reminds me of CCP/Mao deciding to kill Sparrows to save
         | grains, only to find that they eat insects which left unchecked
         | led to much more damage.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign
         | 
         | https://www.licas.news/2020/10/07/when-communist-china-waged...
        
         | chris1993 wrote:
         | No, they're trying to eliminate feral cats in the bush and
         | outback areas where they are driving native animal populations
         | to extinction. The mouse problem is in grain farming areas and
         | is cyclical.
        
       | seunosewa wrote:
       | As an African, my first thought on seeing the pictures was that
       | it's a shame that the dead mice (that were caught in traps or by
       | dogs) aren't being used to make pet food or to feed zoo animals
       | after cooking them thoroughly in large pots.
        
         | saul_goodman wrote:
         | If you consider those mice I'd hate to see what you consider to
         | be rats!
        
           | TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
           | What do you mean? These are definitely regular mice, they're
           | small.
           | 
           | Rats are much larger and can grow to quite large!
        
         | sk5t wrote:
         | Is stew a normal thing to feed to zoo animals?
        
         | GavinMcG wrote:
         | Is there an analogous practice in your region? (Is it also
         | subject to mouse plagues, or is there another way enough
         | rodents are gathered?)
        
           | seunosewa wrote:
           | People roast and eat wild rodents like rats as "bush meat"
           | but to my knowledge they don't eat mice. If we had a plague
           | of mice we would certainly find a way to utilize them.
        
             | TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
             | Separating the digestive system from all those little
             | bodies would be tedious for not a whole lot of gain, a few
             | tens of grams of muscle meat and organs per mouse.
        
       | preommr wrote:
       | This happens every 10 years or so.
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWVw-j8eYSk
       | 
       | There's videos from the last one where there's just entire seas
       | of mice, crawling around everywhere. It's not in this video, but
       | I remember problems like mice straight up eating away at live
       | pigs stuck in their pens.
        
         | vram22 wrote:
         | Tripura, Mizoram, Manipur, as well as Chin State in Myanmar,
         | have a huge rat problem every N years, related to a bamboo
         | species flowering and fruiting. Extra food, they breed more,
         | flowers/fruits gone, they starve, they raid granaries, fields,
         | houses, etc., people die of famine.
         | 
         | Edit: corrected Assam to other nearby state names, based on:
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mautam
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
       | "He said the company's six qualified pilots usually worked in
       | pairs on mice baiting jobs but he had baited 184 hectares with a
       | single drone during one night's operation.
       | 
       | "If you need to drive over it to spread mouse bait, you lose $35
       | of grain per hectare with wheels running over it,"
       | 
       | https://www.facebook.com/donecommander/
        
         | tmp538394722 wrote:
         | "Bait" means poison, right?
        
           | sizzzzlerz wrote:
           | I'd assume so. Which means the first application would kill
           | 80% of the mice, maybe more. That'd would leave a whole bunch
           | of rotting mice bodies to putrify and smell and provide a
           | poisonous feast to birds and other scavangers. A second
           | application might knock off 60%. Then, with each application
           | and multiple generations of mice, you'd end up with mice that
           | are immune. Ultimately, you end up with totally ineffective
           | bait.
        
       | underseacables wrote:
       | This is going to sound silly but I'm absolutely serious: where
       | are the cats?
        
         | subungual wrote:
         | It sounds like the numbers they're dealing with may be well
         | beyond what could be controlled by cats. Additionally, they may
         | be wary, as Australia is already a case study in what can
         | happen as a result of introducing one species to control
         | another's population:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toads_in_Australia
        
           | underseacables wrote:
           | I once had a cat that lived in a work shed. Almost every day
           | he brought me something dead. I hear you but it was just the
           | logical thought to come to mind that I wondered why
           | individuals didn't have cats, or what the cats were doing.
           | Granted now I've got a cat that can't be bothered to even
           | chase something, she just ..looks at it.
        
             | subungual wrote:
             | Haha, yeah, fair. I imagine the cats that do live there are
             | probably enjoying themselves through this but have had
             | their capacity overwhelmed.
        
           | AndrewOMartin wrote:
           | No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around,
           | the gorillas simply freeze to death.
        
           | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
           | I was about to say... shouldn't the cane toads take care of
           | that?
        
           | zizee wrote:
           | There are probably millions of feral cats roaming australia.
        
         | b0rsuk wrote:
         | Check out the documentary "Running Wild".
         | 
         | Cats are part of the problem, including camels, foxes, horses
         | and other invasive species. They went through a lot of trouble
         | to hunt down cats and contain them. Cats wreck native animal
         | populations. They went so far as to fence off areas and train
         | labrador dogs so that they don't hunt native predators such as
         | the (tiny) marsupial "badgers".
        
         | neuronic wrote:
         | Australia doesn't have native cat species and introduced feral
         | cats are considered invasive and aggressively hunted and killed
         | by the government. Feral cats decimate indiginous rodents (not
         | the mice here).
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | joncrane wrote:
       | When I read that article, all I could think of was this video:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2Pyu-Cj0gg
       | 
       | (In case you're sensitive, it's farmers using pitchforks to turn
       | soil in a fallow or recently harvested field that is ridden with
       | rats, which flushes the rats. There are a handful of ratting dogs
       | milling about which immediately chase and kill the rats. The way
       | they do it is the dog grabs the rat in it's mouth and shakes its
       | head wildly. This breaks the rat's back and stuns it. It's
       | actually pretty impressive, if violent and macabre.)
       | 
       | I think there are dogs that would find it fun as heck to live in
       | that area of Australia for a few weeks.
        
         | SAI_Peregrinus wrote:
         | Or this guy, who uses trained mink and dogs for rat (and
         | muskrat) control: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvzZLI04_is
        
         | vmladenov wrote:
         | My dog does this to his stuffed animals, blankets, etc. The
         | agility of the motion is incredible.
        
         | Nerada wrote:
         | That was an incredibly interesting watch, I had no idea this
         | was a thing.
         | 
         | Is there something special about where they're digging for it
         | to be plagued with such a large amount of rats? It looks like
         | it would take weeks to cover all of their land with this
         | digging + dog method.
        
           | joncrane wrote:
           | My guess is that it's a field that was harvested in the past
           | weeks. Harvesting crops makes a lot of edible material fall
           | to the ground. I believe the "leftovers" from the harvest
           | attracts the rats.
        
           | saul_goodman wrote:
           | It looks maby like the remains of a row of haylage. Basically
           | chopped corn, stalk and all, which is used to feed livestock.
           | Usually you see this stuff in long white bags in the US
           | country side, but there are multiple ways to store it. The
           | stuff smells ferocious and self ferments. So they've probably
           | used up the previous years haylage pile and now they are
           | cleaning house so the rats don't totally mow down the spring
           | planting their about to do.
        
             | CJ808 wrote:
             | I think 30 secs in shows a building on skids. It's probably
             | something like a chicken house that has been moved across
             | the field. The rats are in amongst the old poop.
        
         | coldcode wrote:
         | I wonder how many cats every house needs to rid it of mice.
         | Given the volume, I doubt there are enough cats in Australia to
         | even make a dent.
        
           | eknkc wrote:
           | I'm Turkish and I find it interesting that the US and
           | European cities are dealing with mouse / rat issues. We have
           | tons of cats roaming the streets. I guess that's the reason
           | but I have ever seen one or maybe 2 live rats in my entire
           | life.
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | When I visited Athens, the massive colonies of feral cats
             | were very notable. They could take over parks.
             | 
             | American culture is specifically oriented toward preventing
             | this kind of thing from happening. A feral cat is judged to
             | be in need of a home. And there is a very widespread
             | popular effort to say that you are doing something immoral
             | if you don't spay your cat -- if a fertile cat did go
             | feral, it might have children!
        
               | path411 wrote:
               | I live in a major us city and there has to be 30+ feral
               | cats within my block it's crazy.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | That would be a pitifully small number compared to a park
               | in Athens.
        
             | marshmallow_12 wrote:
             | In Israel too. Although they prefer going after rubbish.
             | They say the British Mandate brought them in to deal with
             | the rodent problem.
        
           | thatguy0900 wrote:
           | Australia actually started a program to kill off feral cat
           | populations a few years ago
        
             | qiqing wrote:
             | Maybe that's the root cause of the problem.
        
           | quickthrowman wrote:
           | > I wonder how many cats every house needs to rid it of mice.
           | 
           | Anecdotally, one.
        
           | belorn wrote:
           | Mice are instinctually afraid of the smell of cats, so the
           | cat would not need to actually kill them to get the desired
           | effect.
           | 
           | In this case however when we have hundreds of new mice each
           | day, the fear effect and eating of mice would likely just be
           | a drop in the bucket. The mice from nearby farmland and
           | forests are fleeing starvation. A single house can collect
           | and kill thousands a week and still more are coming, and the
           | flood of mice can start up from apparently nowhere if you
           | live near such areas. The only good thing is that it will
           | stop at some point, and the professional traps can help to
           | keep the situation at bay.
        
           | djrogers wrote:
           | Cats are incredibly efficient hunters. I'd venture that 1-2
           | per household would quickly make a huge difference in the
           | population, although a good number of those would have to be
           | outdoor / barn / feral cats to have along term effect.
           | 
           | Disneyland has roughly 400 cats that keep the park largely
           | rodent free, which is a minor miracle given the amount of
           | food there is there.
        
             | alistairSH wrote:
             | Plus, you'd see a noticeable decline in local birds, which
             | might not be desirable.
        
             | dwaite wrote:
             | * Except a few giant rodents they largely stay away from
        
           | wruza wrote:
           | Obligatory Andrew Ucles tutorial on cats:
           | 
           | https://youtube.com/watch?v=4cTV6mKV6oE
        
           | 0xfaded wrote:
           | In Australia feral cats are culled since they kill the native
           | animals.
           | 
           | There's even a guy that skins them and turns then into stubby
           | holders.
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/VaB9J8JHVxI
        
         | inglor_cz wrote:
         | I am weird enough to see an optimalization problem in the
         | video. How many dogs are too many? Obviously, two are better
         | than one, but fifty isn't better than twenty.
         | 
         | Just saying.
         | 
         | Also, the comment saying "that is why dogs like squeaking toys"
         | is spot on, though the idea is probably uncomfortable to
         | regular dog owners.
        
           | 34679 wrote:
           | Optimization.
        
             | 1-more wrote:
             | Here's an example of a dog optimizing a simple calculus
             | problem! https://web.williams.edu/Mathematics/sjmiller/publ
             | ic_html/10...
        
           | joncrane wrote:
           | You can also tell that some of the dogs are way more "into
           | it" than others. It's a typical pareto distribution. 20% of
           | the dogs are killing 80% of the rats.
        
             | inglor_cz wrote:
             | If dogs could organize their own Olympic Games, I do not
             | doubt that rat chasing would qualify as a discipline.
        
           | secondcoming wrote:
           | Do deaf dogs not like squeaky toys?
        
         | clairity wrote:
         | > "The way they do it is the dog grabs the rat in it's mouth
         | and shakes its head wildly."
         | 
         | my dog is a terrier/spitz mix and shows this behavior in play
         | (from the terrier side, the spitz side just makes her pretty
         | =). she'll grab a stick or other small item and shake it wildly
         | while bucking about. most people think it's hilarious until i
         | tell them why she does it. =D
        
           | alistairSH wrote:
           | My 7lb cotton ball Maltese does the same thing. It's
           | hilarious. He also loves to chase squirrels. Same dog yelped
           | like he was being flayed alive when a neighborhood cat
           | playfully swatted his nose. Ridiculous creature.
        
           | cptskippy wrote:
           | Many people forget that dog breeds exist for specific
           | purposes and not just for looks. Just as mastiffs were bread
           | to pull knights from horses, many small dogs were bread for
           | rodent and pest control.
        
           | mncharity wrote:
           | Years back I worked on a "configure a dog" educational
           | interactive. IIRC, dogs share a common hunting sequence of
           | behaviors, and some of their domesticated diversity stems
           | from being able to genetically adjust the strength of those
           | behaviors. So a retriever for instance, has the "bite hard"
           | and "shake it" dialed down, and the "carry it home" dialed
           | up.
        
         | chefkoch wrote:
         | That's why these breads were called rattler in german.
         | 
         | https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rattler
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | checker wrote:
         | If you look closely one of the dogs swallows a rat whole. Yum.
        
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