[HN Gopher] YouTube can now warn creators about copyright issues...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       YouTube can now warn creators about copyright issues before videos
       are posted
        
       Author : finphil
       Score  : 87 points
       Date   : 2021-03-18 18:28 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | nicofcurti wrote:
       | Honestly this was too obvious to not do anything until now. Next
       | thing is fixing the demonetisation bs
        
         | doh wrote:
         | The only reason why they done is because it's mandatory under
         | the impending legislation in EU [0].
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_on_Copyright_in_the_...
        
           | varispeed wrote:
           | So it is the might filter and pre-cursor of preventive
           | censorship in the EU. Marvellous.
        
             | doh wrote:
             | Not sure what are you trying to say, but no law gets
             | anything right. That said, the current market is very one-
             | sided where platforms abuse both sides (creators and
             | rightsholders) while nobody can do nothing about it. So I
             | welcome the governments trying to find balance, even if
             | it's not perfect.
             | 
             | I think the law is cutting way too far in one direction,
             | but I believe this is the first time the market has an
             | opportunity to work together to find some form of balance.
        
       | shmerl wrote:
       | Sounds almost like Sheckley's Watchbird already :)
        
       | mrkramer wrote:
       | This should've been implemented earlier it would save a lot of
       | users time and hassle. Google has enormous engineering manpower
       | and computing resources they can do pretty much anything.
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | A hell of a lot more cooperative approach to help everyone avoid
       | unintentional messes is long overdue.
       | 
       | The folks who get their content taken down I'm sure would be
       | happy to cooperate most of the time ...
       | 
       | Really sad that it comes this late / after this much hassle.
        
       | Dirlewanger wrote:
       | I can't imagine the incredible amount of man-hours that were
       | wasted on detecting if your video has fucking copyrighted
       | material in it. Absolute shame.
        
         | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
         | The technology has existed for a nearly 20 years.
         | 
         | Shazam [0] existed long before smartphones and could identify
         | songs based on 10 second samples. YouTube can easily leverage
         | this song-identifying technology to detect copyrighted
         | material.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shazam_(application)
        
           | georgebarnett wrote:
           | Recognising a song is not the same as recognising copyright.
        
         | politician wrote:
         | I'd like to see a total energy comparison between Content ID
         | and Bitcoin PoW.
        
       | varispeed wrote:
       | I believe that artists should be reimbursed, but how YouTube does
       | it does not look just at all. It is a simple money grab by fat
       | major label execs who were able to cut deals with YT at the
       | expense of regular people. Yes, if someone uses a copyrighted
       | song, they should either be asked to use something else, provide
       | proof of a deal or agree to send a split to an artist. I
       | understand currently it is that the label takes all. I wonder why
       | there isn't any lawsuit around this?
        
         | mywittyname wrote:
         | > I wonder why there isn't any lawsuit around this?
         | 
         | There's been a ton of action around this, including an active
         | class action lawsuit. Congress was hearing testimony on this
         | exact subject back last year and there's legislative action
         | going on in the EU. I suspect this move was in direct response
         | to those hearings.
        
       | Kaze404 wrote:
       | Meanwhile, in the real world, Jim Sterling is facing their
       | channel being taken down because a random game developer didn't
       | like their review and decided to copyright flag a bunch of
       | different videos. They're at 2 strikes now, which means one more
       | and the channel goes down. Fantastic system.
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/1372585399667806211
        
         | peterlk wrote:
         | Huh... This actually seems like not a bad way to ensure that
         | Google is aware of the problem. A sufficiently large reddit
         | community could probably knock a lot of big fish off of youtube
         | with this approach
        
       | sorenjan wrote:
       | Did you see how Twitch handles copyright issues? They're latest
       | solution is to make it easier for streamers to mass delete all
       | their saved streams ("VODs") to not get DMCA strikes. Compared to
       | Twitch Youtube seem much more competent and professional.
       | 
       | https://www.esportstalk.com/news/after-a-year-twitchs-dmca-u...
        
         | ronsor wrote:
         | Every company looks more competent and professional compared to
         | Twitch as of late. The latter seems to be involved in at least
         | one controversy a month.
        
         | Kaze404 wrote:
         | What's weird about the Twitch situation is that they already
         | had a system to solve this. If you had a VOD that flagged their
         | Content ID, the offending part would get muted. Why not do the
         | same thing for manual takedown requests?
        
       | AlexandrB wrote:
       | What if the video is using copyrighted material on fair use
       | grounds? I guess you're still screwed then?
        
         | doh wrote:
         | They were forced to this because of the impending legislation
         | in EU [0] which forces them to do so. Germany is toying with
         | what they call pre-filtering, which would allow creator/user to
         | state fair use/exception prior identification. Essentially one
         | could claim fair use before a rightsholder can make their
         | claim.
         | 
         | So far it's part of the draft but we don't know if it will make
         | it to the final legislation.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_on_Copyright_in_the_...
        
       | BitwiseFool wrote:
       | It's baffling that this feature wasn't already available to
       | content creators.
        
         | hntrader wrote:
         | What if they didn't want to give users a way to iterate quickly
         | through various attempts at obfuscating copyright content by
         | just the right amount in order to bypass the copyright
         | screening?
         | 
         | Not saying that was the reason but it's not implausible.
        
           | varispeed wrote:
           | I could think that they also wanted to increase engagement on
           | the site. People better respond to music they know, so they
           | were milking sweet ad commissions as long as they could.
           | Maybe labels realised YT is taking a mickey and had a strong
           | conversation with the execs.
        
         | post_break wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure it was in a backhanded way. I would upload a
         | video and keep it private. Then you could wait and see if any
         | part got flagged. If it didn't then you could publish.
        
         | SirFatty wrote:
         | Agreed... and it makes you wonder why Google held back on this.
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | It would have been baffling to me in the past, but I've felt
         | it's pretty clear that YouTube is more interested in catering
         | to mainstream entertainment giants rather than individual
         | content creators. It's baffling they'd even bother with this
         | now. The only reason I can think of why they would introduce
         | this feature is that their algorithm has been backfiring on
         | content creators they are politically aligned with.
        
       | mikece wrote:
       | "If YouTube's copyright identification system finds a violation
       | after a video is scanned, the rights holder's policy will be
       | automatically applied to the video, according to the company."
       | 
       | During the height of the quarantine last year I managed the live-
       | streaming of the traditional form of the Catholic Mass (1962
       | Missal, substantially the same ruberics and ceremonials from the
       | fifth century until the 1960s) at a local parish and on EVERY
       | Sung High Mass there were multiple copyright flags applied
       | because the liturgical hymns sung by the choir, the "newest" of
       | which averaged 250 years in age and some of which were over a
       | thousand years old, were part of a commercial recording by some
       | professional choral ensemble. Had someone played a CD of that
       | professional recording in the chapel then this would have been a
       | copyright violation, but it's OBVIOUS to any human who listens to
       | the sound on those videos that this was a live performance -- by
       | volunteer, part-time singers who make lots of mistakes -- of
       | works that have been in the public domain for centuries.
       | 
       | This system is clearly a CYA for Google: they would rather flag
       | videos and PERMANENTLY demonetize content creators based on
       | repeated false positives (but still show advertisements on the
       | videos anyway!) than to risk even the remotest chance that a
       | content creator might sue YouTube for enabling copyright
       | infringement.
        
         | doh wrote:
         | Can't speak for YouTube, but we[0] solved issues like this by
         | making public domain the first class citizen of the system.
         | Once a work enters a public domain in any of the 195 countries,
         | is no longer possible to register it in our system for that
         | country. This prevents any rightsholder to abuse the system.
         | 
         | It also allows platforms and creators to freely utilize public
         | domain, royalty free and Creative Commons works in their
         | content without worrying about situation like this. We also
         | distinguish explicitly between publishing and sound
         | recording/performance so one can register one without impacting
         | the other.
         | 
         | [0] https://pex.com
        
           | narrationbox wrote:
           | Do you have any public pricing or startup plans?
        
             | doh wrote:
             | The way we make money is we charge % of revenue generated
             | from the licensed content. So starting is free, using the
             | service is free and the only time one would pay us if the
             | platform makes money from any licensed content.
        
               | narrationbox wrote:
               | So if I am launching a Spotify/Audible-style
               | music/audiobook streaming platform, how will the pricing
               | work out? Do we pay you instead of the original author
               | for any user uploaded content? If the original author
               | chooses to upload their content onto our platform, do we
               | scan it with your API and explicitly whitelist it and pay
               | them directly?
               | 
               | Your company looks very cool btw. What's your email?
        
               | doh wrote:
               | My email is r@pex.com
               | 
               | The way this works is that you send all content through
               | us via our SDK which generates fingerprints (so content
               | doesn't exchange hands). If the rightsholder is
               | registered with us (it's free), then we can take care of
               | everything from payments, ADR (alternate dispute
               | resolution), reporting, ...
               | 
               | If the rightsholder uploads their own content to the
               | platform, they are able to pre-license their content in
               | our system (different word for allowlist, but a bit more
               | nuanced as these lists run into GDPR issues).
               | 
               | Rightsholders are also free to have direct relationships
               | with platforms while we run the backend. We don't require
               | any particular licensing to be done through us.
               | 
               | Hopefully this makes sense.
        
               | cwkoss wrote:
               | I might suggest using a different email for public
               | communications.
               | 
               | When I read your email, it looks like "rape x dot com",
               | which is quite unfortunate.
        
               | doh wrote:
               | I must say that's the first time someone said something
               | like this. Not to dismiss your comment, but I don't think
               | this is a common thing.
               | 
               | I think one could also read it as rat pex, but also not
               | something that ever happened before :)
        
           | brailsafe wrote:
           | This sounds like a sufficiently hard problem to devote a
           | whole business to.
        
             | doh wrote:
             | If this is not a sarcasm then that's what we did. If it is,
             | I honestly believe that this will end up being better that
             | it seems on the surface.
             | 
             | We modeled the company on VISA. The idea is to bring three-
             | sided marketplace to allow creators to do what they do
             | best, create, without worrying about the laws and
             | regulations across the world, platforms to bring new
             | opportunities to express to creators and rightsholders to
             | benefit from their content.
        
         | jessaustin wrote:
         | _...even the remotest chance that a content creator might sue
         | YouTube for enabling copyright infringement._
         | 
         | Does this happen often? Ever? How does one sue a firm that
         | never has humans available for interaction with the public? One
         | suspects this is the motivation they'd like us to credit,
         | because they have other, less defensible, motivations.
        
           | tehjoker wrote:
           | Fwiw, you sue in public courts where Google loses by default
           | if they don't appear. Google does not yet run its own
           | parallel court system and star chamber.
           | 
           | EDIT: On second thought, if their services require binding
           | arbitration, they do. Arbitration in contracts of adhesion
           | should be flatly illegal.
        
             | jessaustin wrote:
             | Would a copyright owner who doesn't use YouTube be subject
             | to such binding arbitration? Presumably such an owner could
             | hire a third party to discover hypothetically infringing
             | content?
        
               | tehjoker wrote:
               | All parties involved would have to have agreed in writing
               | to binding arbitration, so yes any non-party can do
               | whatever they want.
               | 
               | EDIT: IANAL and this is not financial advice. ;)
        
             | hellbannedguy wrote:
             | I don't think people realize how companies/people use
             | binding arbitration to their advantage?
             | 
             | These companies pay the arbitrators. It's usually done by
             | mail, and their usually is no investigation into your case.
             | 
             | The little guy wins only in egregious situations, and I
             | have never met anyone who won especially going up against a
             | big company?
             | 
             | I get arbitration agreements for small companies, but not
             | for huge monopolies, and scummy high interest rate card it
             | cards.
             | 
             | I had a run in with Columbia Credit Services, and still
             | have a judgement following me over a credit card. Someone
             | decided to look into the arbitration process of this
             | company, and something like 99.9 percent of the time the
             | customer lost. Even hired process servers whom would lie
             | about serving the papers. All over a credit card sent in
             | the mail.
             | 
             | (Judgements last 10 years, and can be renewed. They tick
             | away at 10% per year, if the creditor can't immediately
             | your life miserable, and take your stuff with a warrant.)
        
               | tehjoker wrote:
               | I think it can be okay with companies large or small if
               | the contract is something that is negotiated with real
               | opportunity for making changes like removing such
               | agreements. Arbitration when done with the real consent
               | of both parties and with the choice of a neutral party
               | that isn't expecting more business from one of them can
               | save time and money. However, it's tyrannical for both
               | large and small companies to just force these things on
               | people regardless of how vulnerable their business model
               | is.
               | 
               | I'd note that it has never occurred to me that
               | arbitration would ever have been in my own interest.
        
           | devrand wrote:
           | Viacom International Inc. v. YouTube, Inc. is basically what
           | caused Content ID to come into existence, despite being ruled
           | in Youtube's favor. It was going to go to appeal but a non-
           | monetary settlement was agreed upon, which is why it's
           | believed that Content ID came from that.
           | 
           | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viacom_International_Inc._
           | v._Y....
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | Are you asking if a Record Company would sue someone on the
           | Internet for copyright infringement? They are rather famous
           | for doing so, and more than that, for asking for extremely
           | large settlements. Sometimes calculating the "damages" in
           | completely ridiculous ways like multiplying every view by
           | $50,000.
           | 
           | Don't forget what happened to cdrom.com. Literally sued out
           | of existence because they allowed people to upload their own
           | music to the cloud. They couldn't even share it, it was just
           | uploaded to the cloud. Business completely destroyed.
        
             | jessaustin wrote:
             | In USA civil courts the wealthier party typically wins.
             | Alphabet is going to be the wealthier party in most cases.
             | Certainly more than "cdrom.com". This was one of the
             | advantages cited back when Google purchased YouTube.
             | 
             | https://archive.thinkprogress.org/poor-people-dont-stand-
             | a-c...
        
               | jandrese wrote:
               | So why does Google bother with the false-positive heavy
               | with draconian penalties ContentID stuff then?
               | 
               | Oh, because Record Companies are still bigger than people
               | who create content for YouTube.
        
               | jessaustin wrote:
               | Yes, "why" is a great question to ask, because ISTM
               | Alphabet benefits from being able to blame an essentially
               | unappealable process while it curates content uploaded to
               | its platform by creators. I'm a rancher, and like
               | Alphabet I prefer not to get in extended arguments with
               | my livestock.
               | 
               | If blame for the excesses of curation couldn't be
               | offloaded to third parties, creators could form a class
               | for enterprising attorneys.
               | 
               | Sure, it's also good to have a ready defense against
               | litigious record companies, but large firms don't have to
               | have just one reason for doing things in particular ways.
               | It is easy to imagine an alternative to the "ContentID"
               | system that would be less capricious and would still make
               | record companies happy.
        
             | derekp7 wrote:
             | The way cdrom.com worked is you would upload a fingerprint
             | of your music. Then if they already had a track that
             | matched the fingerprint, they would link that to your
             | account and not require you to upload the whole track. So
             | this was technically not within the scope of what is
             | allowed by copyright law, which is why they got in trouble.
             | 
             | Which is kind of strange how when something is
             | "technically" a violation, even if it is within the spirit
             | of the law (or equiv. to what is allowed), the copyright
             | hammer comes down. Whereas when something is "technically"
             | NOT a copyright violation, the hammer still comes down
             | (such as that company that used a bunch of tiny TV antennas
             | to stream broadcast TV over the internet to other markets
             | -- each customer was "renting" one of the dedicated TV
             | antennas and using the internet as a "long cable". Or the
             | company that would dedicate a DVD player to each customer
             | and stream movies across the internet, again claiming the
             | internet was just a "very long cable". They both got shut
             | down hard even though they weren't "technically" in
             | violation).
        
               | jandrese wrote:
               | The whole "they're not physically your bits" argument
               | never made a lick of sense. They never would be after you
               | uploaded them over the Internet.
               | 
               | The whole case depended on the Doctrine of First Sale not
               | applying to CDs, so that's what the courts agreed to. The
               | record companies could have gone after second hand record
               | stores, at least the ones that sold CDs, if they wanted
               | to at that point but it was kind of unnecessary because
               | they were already dying.
        
               | AdamJacobMuller wrote:
               | The reason why cdrom.com was sued out of existence was
               | that it became trivial to simply publish directories of
               | fingerprints and upload massive numbers of fingerprints
               | into your account and get access to music you never
               | bought.
        
           | mhh__ wrote:
           | The copyright owners are terrified by a new medium they don't
           | understand for the most part so they extract their rents the
           | way you know how.
           | 
           | I made a dumb mashup containing spoken words and a song, I'm
           | not sure whether that is fair use or not, but it got
           | copyright striked for infringing upon something like "test
           | song #3" by some record label. I couldn't even find out what
           | that was.
        
           | tablespoon wrote:
           | > How does one sue a firm that never has humans available for
           | interaction with the public?
           | 
           | You don't sue a company by contacting customer service. I'm
           | pretty sure they need to have some official representative on
           | file somewhere, and you could probably serve them the lawsuit
           | by sending a certified letter to their official address.
           | 
           | The bigger barrier is Google/Youtube almost certainly have an
           | arbitration clause in their terms of service.
        
         | nullc wrote:
         | > This system is clearly a CYA for Google:
         | 
         | Sorry, the DMCA protections for google are almost absolute.
         | Without a notice and takedown they are unexposed.
         | 
         | Their handling might just be incompetence, or it might be a
         | money maker (e.g. to force people to allow copyright holders to
         | monetize their videos)... what it isn't is a CYA.
        
           | Someone1234 wrote:
           | YouTube's copyright system isn't the DMCA.
           | 
           | The DMCA contains minimum protections for abuse (penalty of
           | perjury), whereas YouTube's private system contains
           | absolutely none. Content owners literally make money by
           | flagging as much as possible, and there's no reason not to.
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | No, that's not correct. Google goes above and beyond what the
           | DMCA requires in order to curry favor with the movie/TV/music
           | studios. Presumably Content ID was a part of Google's bend-
           | over-backwards settlement with Viacom when they sued.
           | 
           | The DMCA process does not require content hosters to pro-
           | actively guess whether or not newly-posted material might
           | violate someone's copyright. It just requires that they
           | provide an avenue for rightsholders to file claims, which
           | have to be promptly acted upon.
           | 
           | Google's system unnecessarily favors big players at the
           | expense of individual creators. For all the flak the DMCA
           | gets, its claim/counterclaim process is way better for
           | creators than Google's system is.
        
             | mywittyname wrote:
             | >For all the flak the DMCA gets, its claim/counterclaim
             | process is way better for creators than Google's system is.
             | 
             | I suspect this is the crack in the YT foundation that will
             | allow for real competition to emerge. Several YouTube
             | creators have formed a competing network specifically
             | because of the BS they deal with regarding ContentID being
             | so anti-creator.
        
             | d1zzy wrote:
             | > No, that's not correct. Google goes above and beyond what
             | the DMCA requires in order to curry favor with the
             | movie/TV/music studios. Presumably Content ID was a part of
             | Google's bend-over-backwards settlement with Viacom when
             | they sued.
             | 
             | I imagine it was because of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/
             | wiki/Viacom_International_Inc._v._Y....
             | 
             | Yes, Google won in the end, but there were times when it
             | didn't (they won on appeal) and the cost of the lawsuit
             | itself, the insecurity of its outcome and the potential
             | impact that could have down the line to doing business with
             | Viacom I think were enough to act.
        
             | polishTar wrote:
             | It's a bit more complicated than that.
             | 
             | Google's system is optional for both the content creator
             | and the rightsholder. If the rightsholder would prefer to
             | use the DMCA, they obviously can. If the content creator
             | would prefer the rightsholder use the DMCA, they can
             | dispute+appeal which will force the rightsholder to file a
             | DMCA takedown if they want to continue with their claim.
             | 
             | Unfortunately there's often a lot of confusion about the
             | dispute+appeals process, since it's a multi-step process
             | and there's a ton of people incorrectly conflating disputes
             | with appeals, but the important takeaway is that a content
             | creator can choose to force a DMCA takedown via an appeal
             | (which happens after a rejected dispute).
             | 
             | The reason content creators rarely choose to go the route
             | of forcing a DMCA takedown is because:
             | 
             | 1) the only remedy for a DMCA takedown is a removal of the
             | entire video, which is often less preferable than the
             | remedies offered by the google process (ex:
             | replacing/muting the audio in the claimed section,
             | monetization split, restrictions in only some geographical
             | regions)
             | 
             | 2) the DMCA repeat infringers clause requires that
             | companies terminate relationships with people that
             | repeatedly get DMCA takedowns. This manifests on YouTube as
             | a 3-strikes-and-your-channel-is-deleted policy that _only_
             | applies to DMCA takedowns, but not copyright claims that
             | come through the optional google process.
             | 
             | 3) There's some scary warnings about how particularly
             | vindictive rightsholders react to this by choosing to file
             | a lawsuit against the creator in addition to filing the
             | DMCA takedown
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | Music copyrights are a minefield, even for old music, because
         | it is often performed and rearranged, both of which would
         | restart the copyright clock. And even if your church pays for
         | performance licenses, it may not apply to when Google
         | redistributes that performance. There is not a simple solution
         | to the problem, even if there are 'mistakes' in the
         | performance.
         | 
         | Mistakes only make it more impossible of a problem to solve,
         | because 2 notes could be the difference between a public domain
         | work, and a rearrangement done last week. Did the performers
         | make a mistake on the two notes that differentiate the works,
         | or a different place? It's simply not possible to tell from the
         | audio.
        
           | mikece wrote:
           | "Music copyrights are a minefield, even for old music,
           | because it is often performed and rearranged, both of which
           | would restart the copyright clock."
           | 
           | Most of what the choir was flagged on was Gregorian Chant,
           | the settings of which trace their origins to Old Testament
           | worship in the Temple of Jerusalem, possibly as far back as
           | King David's tabernacle singers. The texts are all ancient
           | (200 to 1600 years old) and the "new" settings were composed
           | by William Byrd (1540 - 1623) and Palestrina (1525 - 1594).
           | We're not talking about something that was recently reset...
           | though that would explain why Morten Lauridsen's "O Magnum
           | Mysterium" is almost never heard in Divine Worship (that
           | setting isn't even 30 years old yet).
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | There are undoubtably a ton of variations of those chants
             | over the past 120 years and probably millions of recorded
             | performances of those chants. Any of which would be subject
             | to a _new_ copyright on the date of that performance or
             | rearrangement, regardless of the original date of the
             | composition.
             | 
             | A work being widely performed is a common situation that
             | complicates attempts to solve the problem automatically. An
             | infinite number of monkeys randomly singing a song will
             | eventually sing one that sounds exactly like yours. How
             | does an algorithm determine the difference in intent
             | between my randomly singing choir of monkeys and your
             | church's performance? It can't, as it compares audio -- it
             | doesn't reason like humans do. Content ID doesn't know who
             | your performers are, who recorded it, which sheet music
             | your performers were reading from, where they made
             | mistakes, and/or what licenses you have. (and FWIW, any
             | given human watching the video wouldn't know much of this
             | either)
             | 
             | Two audibly identical works can be non-infringing, and two
             | audibly differentiable works can be infringing. ContentID
             | is an approximation -- it does not and never will have
             | enough information to accurately judge everything.
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | That argument doesn't hold water when my Pixel can hear a
               | piece of classical music and identify the particular
               | performer/album, not just the title of the music itself.
               | 
               | If my phone can do that on its own (Google claims they
               | aren't sending any audio to the cloud), then Content ID
               | can surely do just as well, if not better, and not flag
               | someone's church choir's performance as some recorded,
               | copyrighted work.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | You are missing a big part of the problem space as it
               | pertains to copyright law. That application is
               | fingerprinting _a portion_ of the _audio_ and looking it
               | up for a match in an existing database of copyrighted
               | works for a match. This _is_ the same thing that Content
               | ID does, and it 's exactly why it has false positives.
               | 
               | Knowing whether portions of audio in a recording match
               | other existing recordings is not enough to determine
               | whether or not something breaks copyright law.
               | 
               | You can demonstrate this with Shazam (/whatever the
               | Google one is called). Live performances of any decent
               | quality will often match recording fingerprints in their
               | DB and give you a result of a particular artist/album.
               | 
               | The law is simply more complicated than `if(audioMatches)
               | then {illegal}`
               | 
               | Sometimes a match on audio is _not_ an illegal copyright
               | infringement.
               | 
               | Sometimes audio that doesn't match _is_ illegal copyright
               | infringement.
               | 
               | Let's say you play a song from the year 1200 on the
               | violin. You have the copyright to that performance. Now,
               | let's say I play the same song, and I play it relatively
               | well. I have the copyright to my performance. Likely, the
               | audio fingerprints match, and Shazam/Google/Content ID
               | will all say that my recording matches yours -- even
               | though my performance was entirely legal, and we _both_
               | own copyrights to our respective performances.
               | 
               | The information Google is missing is:
               | 
               | 1. it doesn't know that the sheet music we were both
               | reading was authored in 1200. It doesn't have this
               | information, it just has the audio.
               | 
               | 2. it doesn't know that a different human physically
               | performed the work. It just knows that the audio is the
               | same.
        
               | cwkoss wrote:
               | I wonder how long those portions of audio are.
               | 
               | With portion length and bitrate there is some theoretical
               | number of music samples that could be 'brute forced' to
               | cover the entire content ID space.
               | 
               | I wonder if their snippets are long enough to make this
               | an impossible number, or if this theoretical attack on
               | Content ID could be put into practice.
        
               | mrkramer wrote:
               | >The law is simply more complicated than
               | `if(audioMatches) then {illegal}`
               | 
               | >Sometimes a match on audio is not an illegal copyright
               | infringement.
               | 
               | >Sometimes audio that doesn't match is illegal copyright
               | infringement.
               | 
               | >Let's say you play a song from the year 1200 on the
               | violin. You have the copyright to that performance. Now,
               | let's say I play the same song, and I play it relatively
               | well. I have the copyright to my performance. Likely, the
               | audio fingerprints match, and Shazam/Google/Content ID
               | will all say that my recording matches yours -- even
               | though my performance was entirely legal, and we both own
               | copyrights to our respective performances.
               | 
               | >The information Google is missing is that it doesn't
               | know that the sheet music we were both reading was
               | authored in 1200.
               | 
               | I'll be honest I don't know anything about copyright but
               | wouldn't solution be for example you as a YouTube content
               | creator can claim the right to that particular song and
               | the other guy as well and know Google has a record in
               | their database that says:
               | 
               | John owns right to 1200 violin song (song id)
               | 
               | Jack owns right to 1200 violin song (song id)
               | 
               | And then IF John's (song id) matches Jack's (song id)
               | don't send copyright strike.
               | 
               | Google needs to build YouTube knowledge graph so it has
               | better awareness on information.
        
       | standardUser wrote:
       | I've always despised how YouTube removes videos with no trace of
       | what was once there. I have dozens of videos saved to playlists
       | that I will never be able to recover because there is no
       | identifying information. Why not take down the file but leave the
       | title for reference?
        
         | ssalka wrote:
         | This is why I youtube-dl everything
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-18 23:01 UTC)