[HN Gopher] Eclipse IDE 2021-03 is released
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Eclipse IDE 2021-03 is released
Author : pjmlp
Score : 51 points
Date : 2021-03-17 18:20 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.eclipse.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.eclipse.org)
| tibiahurried wrote:
| I was a strong Eclipse supporter, I'd always advocate Eclipse at
| work (vs IntelliJ) ... but eventually I had to give up. The maven
| integration was breaking with each release. Not to mention the
| often half broken, incompatible plugins that would make the IDE
| unstable.
|
| Switched to IntelliJ and never went back.
|
| Also: IntelliJ's superior scala support also played a huge role
| in the decision.
| runningmike wrote:
| I always feel that Eclipse is Foss but mainly supported by large
| corporations who put real improvements first in their commercial
| version. When I see eclipse, I directly think big blue's toy
| project. But the basic IDE is still feature complete, but lacks
| the real needed innovations imho.
| legerdemain wrote:
| I can say one thing in favor of Eclipse. Out of the box, it would
| show you compile errors across our whole Java project, so you
| could do interface refactors and method renames fearlessly.
|
| In Intellij, for years and years and years and years and years,
| you had to enable a changing and unpredictable set of options to
| get the same set of behavior, maybe. You'd try to find the most
| recently edited answer in this question[1] and hope that it
| worked. Note how one of the upvoted suggestions is "use the
| Eclipse compiler instead."
|
| So yeah, switching to Intellij killed off like 30% of what made
| Java development bearable for me.
|
| [1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19364949/how-to-view-
| the...
| zetazzed wrote:
| Having an Eclipse release sit on HN for 3 hours with zero
| comments seems like the most accurate depiction of the market's
| current feelings towards Eclipse...
| rbut wrote:
| Not really. Eclipse has been my daily driver for python and web
| development the past 12 years. Every time I try another IDE, I
| find myself missing features that PyDev does so well, and end
| up going back.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Happy Eclipse and NetBeans user for what concerns Java
| development.
|
| I rather suck it up and use Electron for Java development
| (VSCode + Microsoft/Red-Hat plugins) than having to deal with
| InteliJ.
| dig1 wrote:
| boring == stable, and I'm perfectly fine with that for serious
| projects. I'll leave to hipsters to pave new paths, and I'm
| going to learn from their mistakes ;)
| serverholic wrote:
| Lol at this point we are way past hipsters paving new paths.
| The paths are established and have been for awhile.
| dig1 wrote:
| Speaks like a true foot soldier. I'm very grateful for your
| service; we always need fresh meat :D
| mbreese wrote:
| _> The paths are established and have been for awhile_
|
| I'd rather say that old paths keep getting rediscovered.
| Such is the cyclic way of tech. There are always new
| "hipsters" that are freshly paving old paths, putting their
| unique spin on it.
| jlengrand wrote:
| Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised to see Eclipse come back
| into fashion in a couple years :D. Maybe in the form of
| Che. Who knows. Things come and go.
| jimbob45 wrote:
| Is there a use case for Eclipse that VS/VSC doesn't outperform
| it at?
| Skhalar wrote:
| Defense industry.
| skinkestek wrote:
| Refactoring?
|
| Speeding up Maven compiles?
| [deleted]
| thrower123 wrote:
| IntelliJ is probably the better comparison. It's not free,
| but for $100/year or whatever it is, it's worth it to not
| have to use Eclipse.
| pjmlp wrote:
| So why pay for turning the laptop into an airplane getting
| ready for take off, lack of incremental compilation, no
| support for mixed language debugging with JNI, 10 key
| combos, having to explicitly search issues (inspections),
| no javadoc tooltips by default?
| Alupis wrote:
| Plenty of people use Eclipse for their daily-driver. 2021-03
| has been out for merely hours and already has clocked up over
| 11K downloads[1]. That, of course, doesn't count all the people
| happily using a previous version.
|
| Eclipse itself has certainly improved dramatically in the last
| couple years. Speed, UI, Installation, etc. Lots of polish
| going into it...
|
| [1] https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/
| albertopv wrote:
| Any recent (2y) Eclipse release with Darkest Dark theme is
| pretty good for me. Tried Intellij, VS Code... still prefer
| Eclipse. Maybe I'm just getting old.
| BenoitP wrote:
| That's actually par for the course for a lot of Java content,
| and that's ok.
|
| I'm not the youngest developer, and I like to see content on my
| steady bread-winner so I upvote it. Java is in a mature phase,
| so there are not a lot of surprises, and things to discuss.
| Even the shiny new things that make the platform unique like
| Loom have been years in the making.
|
| Just Java being Java, where 'boring' is what you actually want
| from it.
| Nicksil wrote:
| >Having an Eclipse release sit on HN for 3 hours with zero
| comments seems like the most accurate depiction of the market's
| current feelings towards Eclipse...
|
| This is a really strange observation.
|
| Do a search here on HN for the Visual Studio Code editor and
| you'll find a number of posts with 0 comments. I use that
| editor as an example as it seems to be among what's popular at
| the moment.
|
| I don't think you can derive much from the number of comments a
| post has after 3 hours. Some of the more popular posts on HN
| exist after the link had been submitted a number of times
| prior.
| [deleted]
| azinman2 wrote:
| A little bit ago I tried to revive some old Java code by
| downloading Eclipse and trying to use it again. I can't believe
| it's improved so little UI/UX compared to 10 years ago, and still
| had what felt like all these weird behaviors like forcing me into
| a workspace. I actually was getting enough strange errors that I
| couldn't figure out how to deal with I just ended up porting the
| code in Python using VSCode. Granted I'm sure with enough
| googling I could have figured it out, but it didn't seem worth
| it. I used to love eclipse back in the day-- those days are long
| gone.
| Alupis wrote:
| Eclipse (and any IDE for the matter) is an incredibly complex
| piece of software.
|
| I don't think it's reasonable to say Eclipse is bad because you
| haven't used it for 10 years and had trouble finding your way
| around, etc. The same could be said about Visual Studio,
| VSCode, IntelliJ or whatever else someone wants to program with
| today.
| kstrauser wrote:
| I don't think that's true. I used Emacs for a couple of
| decades, then decided to try VS Code one day and was
| productive and comfortable in a couple of hours. My first
| impression of it was "oh, a programming editor with some
| options I can ignore for now".
| Alupis wrote:
| As an alternate anecdote, I spent hours trying to figure
| out how to compile some basic C code in VSCode - neck deep
| in configurations and hidden menus with special button
| combinations, etc - only to break down and install some
| random plugin.
|
| The point is, any new environment is going to be jarring at
| first. You have to learn how to use your IDE - and once
| your do, productivity can go way up (this is why people do
| not switch IDE's very often, you must invest in your IDE to
| master it). Every IDE has different productivity-enhancing
| features (beyond basic code suggestions and auto-complete).
|
| If you can master a brand new (to you) IDE in minutes, then
| it's frankly not a very powerful IDE. The basics, like
| refactor some code, move some source files around, create a
| new file, etc - sure, those should come easy. Things that
| don't come easy is how to create new file templates,
| enforce code styling, configure database connections (if
| you work that way, I don't), how to package your software,
| and the plethora of other things IDE's do for us these
| days.
| powersnail wrote:
| VSCode, being a text editor, of course would need some
| random plugins to behave like a IDE (i.e. compile some
| basic C code).
|
| You can prefer an IDE, or a text editor + plugins. Either
| would be fair.
|
| But the complaint that text editor without plugins
| doesn't "compile" your C code is misdirected.
| Alupis wrote:
| I don't think you can call VSCode a text editor. Their
| own website champions IntelliSense, Debugging, and Built-
| in Git for starters. That sounds like an Integrated
| Development Environment to me...
|
| We've strayed from the initial point - IDE's are
| complicated because they do complicated things. Any new
| IDE is going to be difficult to use at first, unless all
| you need is the absolute basics (a la text editor).
| Criticizing Eclipse for not knowing how to use it after
| 10 years (effectively using it for the first time I'd
| argue) is definitely unfair.
| kstrauser wrote:
| You said it's not reasonable for someone who hasn't used
| a certain IDE for 10 years to be able to navigate around
| in it easily. I countered that VS Code was very easy for
| me to find my way around even though I'd never used it.
|
| For giggles, I just installed Eclipse for the very first
| time on this computer. I opened a Python file, and it's
| visible in the middle third of the window, surrounded by
| wide sidebars and a bottom section with labels like
| "Markers", "Servers", "Data Source Explorer", and so on
| [0]. I have literally no idea what I'm supposed to do
| next, or how to fix that I can only see a tiny bit of my
| code by default. Contrast with opening a file in a brand
| new, unconfigured VS Code setup [1].
|
| I'm not saying that Eclipse is bad, just that _I_ don 't
| know how to use it. That's not a criticism of it.
| However, I strongly thing that the first-time experience
| of opening VS Code is miles better than that of Eclipse,
| and I guess I _am_ criticizing that a little bit.
|
| [0] https://imgur.com/a/ImVGDgN
|
| [1] https://imgur.com/I34NT9r
| Alupis wrote:
| We can nitpick this all we want - because in your VSCode
| screenshot I do not see where I can add a new file, or
| rename my open file, or create a project structure, etc.
|
| In your Eclipse screenshot, it seems pretty obvious you
| can click-drag the window to be larger.
|
| So, what is it we're arguing about then, if we both agree
| a default UI layout isn't indicative of a good or bad
| IDE?
|
| I'd wager if you spent a few hours in Eclipse you'd feel
| comfortable navigating your project too. AKA, invest the
| time and learn the tool you will be using.
| albertopv wrote:
| Exactly, VS Code is just an editor, a very good editor. In
| fact Java language support is provided by headless Eclipse
| integrated with Visual Studio Code via the Language Server
| Protocol (LSP) (just google visual studio code java
| headless eclipse)
| diegocg wrote:
| >79.6 million lines of code
|
| Amazing
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| And 40 million of those are just declaring inheritance
| hierarchies and factories.
| fctorial wrote:
| Why is it so big? Intellij is ~6 million lines of mostly java.
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