[HN Gopher] Rockstar thanks GTA Online player who fixed load tim...
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       Rockstar thanks GTA Online player who fixed load times, official
       update coming
        
       Author : mmhsieh
       Score  : 210 points
       Date   : 2021-03-15 21:59 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pcgamer.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pcgamer.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | matsemann wrote:
       | Discussion about the findings two weeks ago:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26296339
        
       | brink wrote:
       | For all the amazing things Rockstar has made, for doing what no
       | other studio could do on the Xbox360, it's crazy that they
       | haven't fixed this before now.
        
         | dmos62 wrote:
         | > doing what no other studio could do on the Xbox360
         | 
         | What's that?
        
           | brink wrote:
           | GTA5, two console generations later and most games still
           | don't come close.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | GTA 5 on the 360 runs at 720p@30 FPS and even then it drops
             | to the low 20s any time something happens even considering
             | the graphics are cranked extremely low by today's
             | standards.
             | 
             | How well they had it running on the 360 is absolutely
             | amazing given the limitations but nostalgia is taking over
             | if you think most games on 4th gen Xbox don't even come
             | close.
        
             | Thaxll wrote:
             | Because it's a game that has been in developpment for
             | 8years, the game as of now is very different from 8 years
             | ago from when it released. You can't compare a game just
             | released with a game that had that much iteration with
             | thousand of people.
        
             | mclightning wrote:
             | For the most part, it is not the tech, it is the content &
             | artistic value they put into the game.
             | 
             | So I don't think it relates in this tech situation. Tech-
             | wise GTA5 is not that interesting for few years now.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | adwi wrote:
       | Good on them for acknowledging something a little embarrassing
       | and responding with gratitude instead ignoring to try to save
       | some face.
        
         | swinglock wrote:
         | I'm genuinely surprised. Given how long they've left this
         | untouched I thought they didn't care at all.
        
           | dbbk wrote:
           | Seems most likely that they had just never dedicated the time
           | to investigating the slowdown.
        
           | de6u99er wrote:
           | Tbh: Looks more like they haven't been aware of it.
           | 
           | This can result in severe consequences for the developers who
           | worked on this particular part of the codebase.
        
           | bogwog wrote:
           | They probably just didn't have anyone working on it that had
           | the knowledge (or incentive and/or permission) to fix it.
           | AFAIK they've just been adding content to the online portion
           | for the past 7~8 years, and you don't need engine programmers
           | to do that.
        
             | rubicon33 wrote:
             | The fact that they didn't make this a priority to fix shows
             | exactly how much this company actually cares about it's
             | customers and it's reputation. It's unbelievable that
             | despite the quite public outcry about the issue NOTHING was
             | done until some 3rd party guy figured it out for them.
             | 
             | I'm quite surprised they are even going to patch the game
             | because the level of "we dont give a shit" I thought they
             | had about this issue certainly would have prevented them
             | from doing anything now.
        
         | rubicon33 wrote:
         | I'm not sure if "embarrassing" is the right word here.
         | 
         | This bug has existed for years and has lead to hundreds, if not
         | thousands of people quitting the game citing this exact reason
         | yet Rockstar did nothing.
         | 
         | I think "shameful" is really more appropriate. It's not like
         | they simply didn't know this existed. I think they have known
         | all along it existed and didn't give 2 shits to fix it.
        
           | 867-5309 wrote:
           | you forgot to mention that ads are displayed during the
           | loading screen
        
           | lambda_obrien wrote:
           | It's a video game, so maybe give them some slack. We're not
           | talking a SolarWinds breach here.
        
           | aantix wrote:
           | The game supports 8 platforms, has virtually miles of
           | terrain, and now Rockstar is suppose to feel ashamed because
           | they didn't fix a big performance issue that affected startup
           | times?
           | 
           | The game probably has tens of millions of lines of code.
           | 
           | I'm glad they shipped. If they can enhance the startup time,
           | great, bonus for them. Additional credit for thanking the
           | third party that uncovered the perf issue.
        
             | swagmoney69 wrote:
             | It's true that the game is probably absurdly complex, but
             | how did they never profile loading times?
        
         | jrimbault wrote:
         | meta comment and completely feeling based : sometimes it really
         | seems like companies, politicians, bureaucracies, don't have a
         | process for acknowledging mistakes and/or lack of knowledge
         | (and/or are seemingly not allowed to).
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | bendbro wrote:
           | Apologizing just gives fuel for revenge. In this case I think
           | because the harm done was so small, it was economical to
           | apologize.
           | 
           | Edit: an anecdote from the professor of my college's startup
           | program (a hundred-millionaire former CEO/founder)- "never
           | say sorry."
        
             | abhorrence wrote:
             | There are at least some examples of startups choosing to
             | apologize, and try to make things better in the future.
             | 
             | I think the real advice is "don't say sorry unless you
             | actually mean it." People see right through that, because
             | your actions and follow through won't match your words. But
             | people seem to appreciate sincere apologies that come with
             | substantive corrective action.
        
             | tinus_hn wrote:
             | You can easily just not say anything at all
        
             | el_dev_hell wrote:
             | > Apologizing just gives fuel for revenge. In this case I
             | think because the harm done was so small, it was economical
             | to apologize.
             | 
             | Yeah, it's always a tradeoff.
             | 
             | I worked at a non-tech fortune 500 for a few years and was
             | able to see the inside of repair/warranty/disputes. These
             | were very high ticket items and the brand was/is very
             | highly regarded for after sales support.
             | 
             | In the employee handbook for repair support staff (the
             | people communicating with clients about the status of their
             | repair/claim) there was a passage similar to the below:
             | 
             | "Apologies MUST NOT acknowledge anything other than the
             | customer's explicit feelings without written acknowledgment
             | of fault from $MANAGER".
             | 
             | I asked a member of that team to decipher WTF that meant,
             | and they showed me an example email. They were only allowed
             | to apologise in the below way:
             | 
             | "Hi bob, we're sorry you feel our product is faulty".
             | 
             | I always found these weasel apologies infuriating in my
             | personal life.
        
       | IshKebab wrote:
       | "Turns out, they were right." err yeah of course. Nobody doubted
       | them.
        
         | saagarjha wrote:
         | Except some commenters in the original thread -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
       | atum47 wrote:
       | Epic!!! Imagine doing something for fun and it ends up in
       | production.
        
       | ZephyrBlu wrote:
       | This is going to be a great point on his resume.
       | 
       | How many people get to say something like, "Reduced GTA 5 load
       | times by 70%"?!
        
         | C19is20 wrote:
         | One.
        
         | DevX101 wrote:
         | That's pretty amazing by itself. But it was doing it without
         | access to the source code that blew me away.
        
           | ZephyrBlu wrote:
           | That really is the cherry on top.
           | 
           | Ya know on second thought, it's so unbelievable that he did
           | this whole thing that I wouldn't be surprised if someone
           | reading his resume thought he was bullshitting.
        
       | yNeolh wrote:
       | I really was thinking that it was intended... I remember watching
       | GTA V on Xbox 360 and being impressed by how good it looked, how
       | it performed in such a "limited" device, so something like this
       | would resonate in a team so good. But it was almost 6 years ago,
       | so probably a good part of that team has moved on to other
       | companies, and the ones left, maybe are in other projects,
       | hopefully, GTA VI.
       | 
       | Glad to see Rockstar addressing this; I will try the update once
       | it is released, and maybe I can play some online games without
       | getting frustrated.
        
         | rightbyte wrote:
         | Maybe scanf didn't redo strlen on the Playstation stdlib.
         | 
         | I mean the PC version was released one year later. Maybe by
         | another team.
        
       | imwillofficial wrote:
       | I want to see more of this from giant companies. This gives me
       | hope that there are real people amongst the mindless drones in
       | these hulking corporations.
        
       | sim_card_map wrote:
       | Given how simple this bug is, I was 100% certain they did it on
       | purpose to show more ads.
        
         | indeedmug wrote:
         | I don't think it was simple. It came down to the odd specifics
         | of scanf making the algorithm O(n^2) which wasn't obvious at
         | all from the programmer standpoint. A lot of people pan
         | Rockstar for being incompetent but in reality, it's a C footgun
         | that any programmer would make.
         | 
         | Edit: I reread the article and I overlooked how there was a
         | second issue of a poorly implemented "hash table" that was a
         | linked list that checked the entire list for dups in every
         | update. Since we don't have access to the source code, it's
         | hard to say if this is poorly implemented piece of code on
         | Rockstar's part or someone else. It could be some deeply buried
         | piece of code that no one ever looked at for years until now.
        
         | bredren wrote:
         | Then it is not a bug.
        
         | dastx wrote:
         | Imagine how much they'll have lost in revenue because people
         | rage quit due to slow load times. Myself included.
        
       | pityJuke wrote:
       | t0st's original post has an update that says he got $10k from
       | R*'s bug bounty program.
       | 
       | [1]: https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-
       | times...
        
       | nickspag wrote:
       | The original fix's author updated the post about this:
       | https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times...
       | 
       | Rockstar awarded them 10k for it.
        
       | A12-B wrote:
       | I'd like to see this person actually get paid for what is
       | essentially a million dollar fix
        
         | Frost1x wrote:
         | Yup. I'm not deeply familiar with the situation and
         | circumstances but it sounds like this person should be very
         | well compensated for what they did.
         | 
         | The amount of free skilled labor businesses benefit from and
         | abuse while not donating back to society is laughable. It's
         | great they helped the GTA 5 community and a fun read but keep
         | your pride and fame, I'd take cash anyday over a pat on the
         | back.
        
         | DavidVoid wrote:
         | _" Just got awarded $10k through their H1 in-game bounty as an
         | exception :)) (usually only for security issues)"_
         | 
         | From their blog post about it: https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-
         | cut-GTA-Online-loading-times...
        
         | ArkanExplorer wrote:
         | Or at the very least get lifetime access to Rockstar games and
         | DLC.
        
       | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
       | Tell me that is not cool.. being able to say you had that much of
       | an impact on million of players across the globe. Not to mention,
       | bragging rights and cool achievement you can put on your resume (
       | that anyone should be able to understand ).
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-15 23:00 UTC)