[HN Gopher] Hit Japanese app Crabhouse forced to change name on iOS
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Hit Japanese app Crabhouse forced to change name on iOS
        
       Author : edandersen
       Score  : 211 points
       Date   : 2021-03-14 11:40 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (japantoday.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (japantoday.com)
        
       | f-word wrote:
       | Good for him. I'd just have made it a PWA so Apple can't stick
       | their grubby paws on my stuff any more.
       | 
       | Apple needs to be made to stop; clearly not just for this random
       | crab app lol but their absolutely heinous business practices need
       | to be put to an end.
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | This story is more outrageous in English, but the real reason
       | becomes clear when you see the Japanese translation:
       | 
       | > "Crab" and "club" is one such case and to make matters worse,
       | when rendered in Japanese katakana script they become identical:
       | kurabuhausu.
       | 
       | Apple already allows apps with similar names, as long as they're
       | not deliberately misleading users.
       | 
       | The Clubhouse social media app is actually named "Clubhouse:
       | Drop-in audio chat" ( https://apps.apple.com/us/app/clubhouse-
       | drop-in-audio-chat/i... )
       | 
       | A project management company already has the app named
       | "Clubhouse" (
       | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/clubhouse/id1193784808 )
       | 
       | Cloning Clubhouse with similar sounding names is a trend in other
       | countries, where companies are trying to capitalize on
       | Clubhouse's popularity.
       | 
       | My favorite is "Club Horse" which is one of tens or hundreds of
       | blatant Clubhouse clones that have popped up in China:
       | https://twitter.com/pitdesi/status/1369682085833711618
        
         | est wrote:
         | > one of tens or hundreds of blatant Clubhouse clones that have
         | popped up in China
         | 
         | Clubhouse is powered by Agora, the Chinese audio tech provider.
         | 
         | Agora is founded by the same poeple from YY, a popular chat app
         | and originally a Teamspeak clone.
        
           | uranusjr wrote:
           | Aside from the point that the backing technology doesn't
           | define where a service is "from", it's still a clone popped
           | up in China no matter what's being cloned?
        
         | biryani_chicken wrote:
         | I thought this was about Clubhouse the project management app
         | (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/clubhouse/id1193784808).
        
         | adolph wrote:
         | I suppose that given the pandemic's possible sources a
         | synonymous "Batshack" clone title wouldn't be popular. Maybe
         | "Bullymansion" would be better.
        
           | vmception wrote:
           | PangolinCage
        
         | dane-pgp wrote:
         | If Crabhouse pivoted slightly to be a social media app for
         | supporting trainee crustacean lawyers, maybe they could change
         | the name of the app to "Crab - How sue?"
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | Badum-tish! Or rather, _Sosumi sound_
        
         | olingern wrote:
         | Yeah, this is certainly a gray area though. If I release an app
         | in America -- do I own that parking spot everywhere?
         | Personally, I think not
        
           | heavyset_go wrote:
           | As long as it isn't a trademark, then you don't. There are
           | thousands of businesses in the US that have the same names as
           | other companies.
        
       | zxcvbn4038 wrote:
       | Crabapple?
        
         | juanani wrote:
         | Had no clue those letters could be pronounced the same. Would
         | anyone like to start a computing company called Uppre?
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | What's odd is actual "similar name" scams are so common on iOS
       | Store that the only good way to find the correct app quickly is
       | go to the website of the company whose app it is and look for the
       | link there. I had to do this yesterday to get the right app for
       | my Insurance company.
       | 
       | Look for deceptively-named apps around everything, especially
       | Microsoft products. Apple doesn't seem to care about these....
        
       | finger wrote:
       | There is already an app called Clubhouse which is a project
       | management application/tool. What about that?
        
         | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
         | Isn't that the 'other' app in this story? Or have I missed
         | something?
        
           | mav3rick wrote:
           | Clubhouse is a voice based rooms social app that's all the
           | rage these days.
        
       | BelenusMordred wrote:
       | Maybe they should put a maximum Damerau-Levenshtein distance in
       | their T&C's to make it clearer for future developers?
        
         | alpaca128 wrote:
         | That would make it harder for Apple to apply their double
         | standards at will. Tech companies like it when the most
         | specific they have to get is "you violated the guidelines".
        
           | marcinzm wrote:
           | Yup, they even remove your app if you have a trademark on the
           | name but not the backdoor connections with Apple. Harder to
           | do that with an actual documented process:
           | 
           | https://www.worldtrademarkreview.com/brand-
           | management/clubho...
        
             | mchusma wrote:
             | I agree the process with google and apple is fickle and
             | horrible. However,I did read the article you linked, since
             | the social media app was using the mark "clubhouse" first,
             | they would have legal priority. To win trademark
             | infringement cases generally you need to prove there is
             | confusion and priority.
             | 
             | If you happen to later get a trademark through an office,
             | in most jurisdictions you don't get to "steal" those
             | rights. They are quite straightforward to cancel, although
             | it takes some time.
             | 
             | That said, Apple and Google's policies are fickle and
             | confusing and indeed your best bet is to have connections
             | to their companies. IMO google is worse because Apple has a
             | group you talk to, and google has you submit forms to
             | something they don't typically respond to.
        
         | apricot wrote:
         | Making it clearer for developers is the opposite of what they
         | want. The more obscure the rule, and the more convoluted the
         | appeals process (if one even exists), the easier it is for the
         | dictator to control their domain.
        
         | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
         | Well, a minimum distance of 1 seems reasonable. As the article
         | notes, these are _the same words_ in Katakana, and the punny
         | time was clearly intended to ride on Clubhouse 's coattails.
        
       | echelon wrote:
       | Time to build Crabhouse on Android and force Clubhouse off when
       | they want to join.
        
         | eternauta3k wrote:
         | Already there
         | 
         | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.GAIBAKO.Cr...
        
           | Pxtl wrote:
           | "Not available in your country"
           | 
           | Why do people hate Canada?
        
       | nippoo wrote:
       | "To English-speakers' eyes the difference between "Crabhouse" and
       | "Clubhouse" are quite clear, but that's not necessarily the case
       | in other languages. In Japanese, the pronunciation of the letters
       | "l" and "r" are largely interchangeable, as are the English
       | vowels "a" and "u" in many cases. "Crab" and "club" is one such
       | case and to make matters worse, when rendered in Japanese
       | katakana script they become identical: kurabuhausu."
       | 
       | This is clearly a purposefully confusing/punny name (it's unclear
       | whether they made any money from downloads or if it was just an
       | elaborate joke)... - it doesn't seem particularly draconian for
       | Apple to wield their hammer in this particular instance...
        
         | zerocrates wrote:
         | The App Store screenshot shows it as being free. I'm pretty
         | sure "elaborate joke" is the correct place to come down on
         | this.
         | 
         | Also see the hastily-corrected name on the wall of "crabhome."
        
         | dalai wrote:
         | Isn't this a bit unfair? The app is free (with IAP) and the
         | screenshots are a dead giveaway what the app is about. If
         | crabhouse was the most popular, would they force Clubhouse to
         | change its name? Somehow I doubt it.
        
         | fsckboy wrote:
         | "This is clearly a purposefully confusing/punny name"...
         | 
         | the measurement of trademark infringement is not how much money
         | a competitor makes, but how much the owner loses. Is Clubhouse
         | losing any money or users due to the confusing/punny name they
         | themselves clearly chose for their product in the Japanese
         | market? I bet not a single person who wants Clubhouse is
         | deterred or confused by this obvious lighthearted satirical
         | farce. This squabble probably brings more attention to their
         | product, Streisand effect.
         | 
         | (and yes, this was an Apple move, not a Clubhouse move as far
         | as we know, but the point stands)
        
           | woah wrote:
           | What?
        
         | hkmurakami wrote:
         | > it's unclear whether they made any money from downloads or if
         | it was just an elaborate joke
         | 
         | The top review on Japan app store (translation by yours truly):
         | 
         | "recently work had been so busy that I was starting to get
         | depressed. That's when uuddenly I wanted to eat taraba-kani
         | (red king crab), but in my wallet was 50yen and not a Noguchi
         | (the person on the 10,000JPY bill). I sighed and fiddled around
         | with my phone...and that's when I discovered this app. At
         | firsti thought this app would just be about gazing at crabs,
         | but before I knew it my fingers had tapped the install button
         | and I had opened the app. What a wonder! My fingers wouldn't
         | stop using the crabs and before I knew it it was morning. As I
         | was getting ready to go to work the crab at the top right of
         | the screen spoke out to me, "work isn't worth it, you should
         | quit." Tears flowed from my eyes. "That's right... I had tried
         | hard enough." That day I resigned from my job. Today I'm living
         | happily with 32 crabs. My house smells a little fishy but I'm
         | having a pretty fun time now. Aah, I want to eat King crab..."
         | 
         | https://apps.apple.com/jp/app/crabhome/id1551908729?l=en
         | 
         | Looks like the app is now called crab home.
        
           | jiyanjs wrote:
           | The person on the 10,000 JPY bill is Yukichi Fukuzawa.
        
             | hinoki wrote:
             | Noguchi Hideyo is on the Y=1000 bill, so I think GP just
             | added an extra zero?
             | 
             | But that's odd, since king crab is pretty expensive. I'd be
             | suspicious of any place serving it for Y=1000!
        
               | jiyanjs wrote:
               | True. Either that or they messed up their famous people
               | on bills. Y=1000 crab sounds suspicious indeed.
        
           | lovedswain wrote:
           | It is my dream to some day release an app that garners a
           | review like this
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | Moreover Crab in Japanese as far as I can tell is 'Kani'
         | [kani]. So it would be 'KaniHouse' which makes this a more
         | obvious riff.
        
           | numpad0 wrote:
           | Japanese language isn't so strict wrt throwing in
           | transliterated words, eg "konosukimudewakusurutoZhi
           | chiniagurihadekinai(kono scheme de work suru to tadachi ni
           | agree ha dekinai)" would work in Japanese webdev
        
           | bruxis wrote:
           | English/foreign words are commonly adopted nowadays,
           | especially for naming of products and places.
        
         | heavyset_go wrote:
         | > _it doesn 't seem particularly draconian for Apple to wield
         | their hammer in this particular instance..._
         | 
         | Ironic, considering the issue[1] between Apple Corps, Apple
         | Computer and now even further blur the lines, Apple Music[2].
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
         | 
         | [2] https://music.apple.com/
        
         | jesperlang wrote:
         | Just to clearify:
         | 
         | ku = Ku
         | 
         | ra = Ra
         | 
         | bu = bu
         | 
         | Crab would be Cu-ra-bu (Kurabu)
         | 
         | Club would be Cu-(l/r)a-bu (Kurabu)
        
           | joeblau wrote:
           | Thanks for clearing up how the words are pronounced.
        
       | tonetheman wrote:
       | Hmmmmm. That feels really broken. It is impossible to even get
       | into Clubhouse... how in the hell can it be so popular that a
       | private club app gets to win in that case.
       | 
       | Someone from Apple is on the board of the people invested in
       | Clubhouse? Someone got paid. That feels a lot like pay-play
       | schemes from the recording industry and radio.
        
         | fortran77 wrote:
         | > Someone from Apple is on the board of the people invested in
         | Clubhouse?
         | 
         | Almost certainly. Or someone from Clubhouse called Apple board
         | member "Al Gore" and told him to fix it.
         | 
         | https://247wallst.com/technology-3/2020/08/04/who-is-on-appl...
         | 
         | He's been a "fixer" for many Apple issues, including getting
         | Steve Jobs deflected from a back-dated stock option scam. (Jobs
         | paid himself $1/year to beat payroll and income tax, and was
         | compensated in backdated stock options, so he'd only have to
         | pay the long-term capital gains tax rate)
         | 
         | Source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/steve-jobs-haunted-
         | by-back...
        
           | mcphage wrote:
           | I didn't see any mention in your source about Al Gore
        
         | ewindal wrote:
         | > It is impossible to even get into Clubhouse
         | 
         | Is it? Don't you just need an acquaintance on the inside? I got
         | invited by someone I worked with once upon a time shortly after
         | installing the app just to see what all the fuzz was about.
        
         | Griffinsauce wrote:
         | > It is impossible to even get into Clubhouse... how in the
         | hell can it be so popular that a private club app gets to win
         | in that case.
         | 
         | Making their treatment of Hey even more bullshit.
        
       | AbrahamParangi wrote:
       | It's honestly amazing that there's basically no way to run
       | software on your iPhone unless Apple approves of every aspect of
       | it, including the name.
        
         | simias wrote:
         | It amazes that that this is still considered amazing. Apple is
         | the gatekeeper of software running on the app store, always has
         | been, probably always will be (modulo a successful anti-trust
         | campaign I suppose).
         | 
         | If you want to be able to decide what runs on your device,
         | don't get an iphone. That's why I don't own one myself. If on
         | the other hand you want the peace of mind of letting Apple
         | gatekeep the software you can use on your device, then it makes
         | perfect sense.
         | 
         | As someone who's spent more hours than I really care to count
         | removing all sorts of crapware, browser extensions and website
         | notifications from friends and family's PCs, I definitely see
         | where Apple is coming from here.
         | 
         | Enforcing naming conventions so that apps do what they say and
         | say what they do doesn't strike me as particularly draconian or
         | unexpected in this context. It's not a bug, it's a feature, and
         | if that's a problem for you then don't buy iphones.
        
           | ineedasername wrote:
           | _Enforcing naming conventions so that apps do what they say
           | and say what they do doesn 't strike me as particularly
           | draconian or unexpected in this context._
           | 
           | Uber, Tinder, Twitter, and countless others would dispute the
           | "Apple just want's accurate app name descriptions" theory.
           | And in this case "Crabhouse" is a highly accurate
           | description, or at least more so than many others.
        
             | simias wrote:
             | I agree that it's very arbitrary, but the justification
             | that it could set a precedent by allowing effectively
             | "copycat" application using spelling to mislead users holds
             | _some_ water IMO. It 's especially problematic when
             | application names are translated in other scripts and
             | languages, which is the case here.
             | 
             | Imagine if a south african made a "facebok" app to share
             | pictures of goats (bok meaning goat in afrikaans), I'm sure
             | it would be rejected on the same grounds.
             | 
             | But I agree that the decision is very arbitrary and it can
             | be frustrating if you're on the receiving end, but such is
             | life on Apple's walled garden. Like it or leave it.
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | Given that, when I search for 'clubhouse' or 'slack' or
               | 'google maps' in the app store, the first result is an ad
               | for a competitor, I'm not sure Apple gives a shit about
               | user confusion?
        
               | LordDragonfang wrote:
               | As usual, Apple's principals are steadfast only as long
               | as they can't find a way to violate them and extract more
               | value from their customer.
        
             | krisgenre wrote:
             | Don't forget 'Apple' :)
        
           | spideymans wrote:
           | >If you want to be able to decide what runs on your device,
           | don't get an iphone. That's why I don't own one myself. If on
           | the other hand you want the peace of mind of letting Apple
           | gatekeep the software you can use on your device, then it
           | makes perfect sense.
           | 
           | To further your point, people forget that Android devices
           | often (if not usually) come preinstalled with OEM and carrier
           | app stores, in addition to the Google Play Store. The Samsung
           | App Store being the most prominent example.
           | 
           | Carriers love to control the experience (more revenue
           | potential), and they were the original mobile app
           | distribution platforms. If there was such a demand for
           | alternative app stores, the carries would aggressively push
           | their own alternate app stores onto consumers.
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | This is silly. They could still keep the store strict and let
           | you side load apps like on Android or the Mac. We would all
           | lose nothing and only gain.
        
             | thamer wrote:
             | > We would all lose nothing and only gain.
             | 
             | It's really not that hard to see how many would lose a
             | whole lot if this feature was available.
             | 
             | If side-loading was allowed and tons of users side-loaded
             | pirated games I'm sure these users would gain, but would
             | the developers? Wouldn't they call on Apple to stop this? I
             | mean the headlines just write themselves: "Apple is
             | complicit and profiting from piracy by selling phones on
             | which it's trivial to install pirated games".
             | 
             | If people started installing random software they heard of
             | on social media, how would the image of the iPhone be
             | changed by the inevitable malware that people would
             | install? "This new iOS virus steals your data and private
             | photos".
             | 
             | What about all the spyware apps that would get side-loaded
             | onto the phones of unsuspecting spouses? "Woman murdered by
             | psycho ex who tracked her every move through her phone".
             | 
             | It takes a little bit more than "it's silly we would all
             | only gain" to make this argument.
        
               | smallpipe wrote:
               | > "Apple is complicit and profiting from piracy by
               | selling phones on which it's trivial to install pirated
               | games".
               | 
               | I'm not seeing any of these headlines with Android
        
               | qq4 wrote:
               | I'm also not seeing any of these problems on macOS.
        
             | tadfisher wrote:
             | I was trying to distribute a macOS app to a friend to test
             | it out. The friend said their Mac told them the app was
             | damaged and they should move it to the Trash.
             | 
             | Apparently I have to get a Developer account, obtain a
             | Developer ID certificate, sign every build with this
             | certificate, and upload the build to Apple to have them
             | "notarize" the signature.
             | 
             | The alternative is to teach my friend how to run obscure
             | commands in the Terminal or disable this "Gatekeeper" (yes,
             | such an unironic name) feature altogether, which requires
             | some scary steps such as disabling SIP. I could be wrong
             | about that last part, but I don't own a Mac so I'm more
             | inclined to just not build software for it.
        
               | my123 wrote:
               | System Preferences -> Security and Privacy.
               | 
               | You'll find an override toggle there. You can also use
               | Right Click -> Open when launching the app. And no, you
               | don't need to disable SIP to disable Gatekeeper which can
               | be done through sudo spctl ---master-disable.
        
               | tadfisher wrote:
               | Right-click + Open resulted in the same error dialog; I
               | presume this has something to do with Big Sur. The option
               | to allow apps from "Anywhere" is also not available in
               | the preferences pane.
        
               | my123 wrote:
               | Right-click + Open has to be done twice to work.
               | 
               | The anywhere option is hidden by default, use sudo spctl
               | ---master-disable from Terminal instead, which flips
               | Gatekeeper settings to Anywhere.
               | 
               | Edit: there's also this path:
               | https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/415713/verify-
               | code... which doesn't seem to activate Gatekeeper as part
               | of the install process.
        
               | dagmx wrote:
               | Just tell them to right click and select open the first
               | time they launch it.
               | 
               | None of the other stuff you mentioned is necessary unless
               | you need your users to avoid that.
        
               | tadfisher wrote:
               | That actually didn't work; see my response to the sibling
               | comment.
        
           | newbie578 wrote:
           | It amazes me that people can still be so obtuse and keep
           | parroting how you just don't need to get an iPhone. In a
           | market where you are stuck between two choices, it isn't so
           | easy to just cut one.
           | 
           | Apple's day of reckoning is coming closer, I believed the EU
           | will rein them in and I can't wait to see people on HN defend
           | them then.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | HunterWare wrote:
             | The problem with that logic is that it doesn't address how
             | this situation came to be. Apple has been consistent about
             | their product vision since basically day one, and on day
             | one they were the underdog... a drop in the pond. The thing
             | is that over YEARS the market (people) consistently voted
             | with their wallets to validate this vision. That's why they
             | are what they are now. This has two implications: 1) The
             | reason it's happening is due to long term choice in the
             | market, i.e. this ecosystem is filling a need that whiners
             | are ignoring, and 2) It ignores the fact that if your
             | stated hopes actually came to pass, someone else would just
             | execute on good hardware with a walled garden (with the
             | resulting more consistent and reliable experience) and
             | become popular AGAIN... after all, that's what just
             | happened this time.
             | 
             | People will answer this post saying "that's not true, you
             | can totally have the iOS experience with side-
             | loading/whatever". Those people also likely believe that
             | the "right communism" just hasn't been tried yet. If one
             | could actually do this then likely someone would have tried
             | it and succeeded already. Another way to realize that is to
             | understand you are just describing Android, and a perfectly
             | valid existing choice (actually, several choices in a
             | family). Additionally, those people are ignoring the fact
             | that the security/convenience/consistency trade-offs made
             | in any ecosystem do have consequences (positive and
             | negative from varying perspectives).
             | 
             | Which leads us back to the parent: If one wants a different
             | trade-off (which is totally valid and I have happily owned
             | and developed for both systems in the past) then pick a
             | different ecosystem and buy into it. MY personal pie in the
             | sky wish is that people would quit pissing on other people
             | who don't want to be forced to make THEIR choice. Please
             | take your choices and stop advocating to take MINE away.
        
               | xnyan wrote:
               | > Those people also likely believe that the "right
               | communism" just hasn't been tried yet.
               | 
               | It's crazy anyone could believe that, if anything besides
               | Marxist-Leninist or Marxist-Stalinist communism could be
               | possible then of course it would already happened and
               | thus cannot possibly exist. History is over.
        
               | avr0 wrote:
               | > Those people also likely believe that the "right
               | communism" just hasn't been tried yet
               | 
               | Well, it has been tried, in the mid 30s in Spain, and it
               | had worked, and it was called Anarchism. Anyway one point
               | for you for bringing politics in this thread, another one
               | for generalizing, and one point for me for replying.
               | 
               | Take care
        
             | simias wrote:
             | I really don't care to defend Apple in particular, I think
             | the only Apple product I've ever owned was an old school
             | hard-drive ipod over a decade ago.
             | 
             | It's just that Apple has always been pretty clear that it's
             | going to push whatever arbitrary rules it sees fit to
             | ensure a certain level of quality on its platform and
             | that's par for the course.
             | 
             | I agree that de-facto having to choose between Android on
             | one hand and iphones on the other is not ideal and I'd like
             | more competition in this space, but at least there is an
             | alternative and there are plenty of Android smartphones
             | that can be rooted to give you full access if you so
             | desire. It's not ideal, but I really find it hard to find a
             | flaw in Apple's approach to these things if their objective
             | is to create a somewhat "premium" curated platform.
        
           | 8ytecoder wrote:
           | As someone who has gone through multiple clean installs back
           | in the day, I finally caved in and switched to an iPhone a
           | few summers ago. I didn't want to deal with the crapware and
           | security holes that won't be patched after merely two years.
           | 
           | I still have an old HTC One that I have managed to install a
           | more recent OS on. It's unbearably slow. My mom's SE from
           | around the time still works great in comparison.
        
             | random5634 wrote:
             | This - my parents phones keep getting updates after
             | purchase. They never updated their cheap android (or maybe
             | updates lagged badly and there were none). People are our
             | paying EXTRA for Apple gate keeping pretty happily
        
         | jb1991 wrote:
         | It's honestly amazing to me that the most predictable comment
         | is also the most tired. Software philosophies differ.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | At least it doesn't take 10 days anymore
         | 
         | I think it was 5 years ago already when Apple got it down to 1
         | day
        
         | foolfoolz wrote:
         | that's not true. this applies to the app store
        
         | bstar77 wrote:
         | You can say this about any closed platform. There's nothing
         | wrong with closed platforms having these policies if they are
         | advertised and designed as such. Apple has been consistent from
         | day one. there are other options, buy an Android or Linux
         | mobile device if you want something a bit more open.
        
           | ineedasername wrote:
           | _Apple has been consistent from day one_
           | 
           | They have only been consistent in having a walled garden.
           | Their rules have been inconsistent in how the rules are
           | applied.
        
           | mjthompson wrote:
           | It is true that as a consumer, I can avoid Apple products.
           | The _real_ issue relates to the options open to app
           | publishers, that is, people who want to distribute an app.
           | 
           | There is no viable alternative for a company wishing to
           | publish an app: you _have_ to target iOS or you perish. Many
           | companies today _need_ to have an iOS app. For example, a
           | bank, or a big chain grocery outlet, probably needs an iOS
           | app to exist in the market. This isn 't a tiny niche area
           | which can be avoided.
           | 
           | The only way you can publish an app is with Apple's approval.
           | Therefore, Apple are exercising a significant degree of
           | market power.
           | 
           | In the US, the idea that because a company is private it can
           | trade however it pleases has been rejected since 1890 when
           | the Sherman Act was introduced. It's the same in most
           | capitalist economies. The conduct of companies is subject to
           | reasonable regulation to ensure healthy competition.
           | 
           | I've established earlier that Apple has significant market
           | power in the mobile app space. Because of that, it's fair
           | that we ask Apple to be reasonable when deciding what apps to
           | approve, and the conditions on which they approve them,
           | because they are exercising a significant degree of market
           | power.
           | 
           | This is a space calling for regulation. Apple and Google
           | should not be free to reject or impose conditions on apps as
           | they wish. We have a right, as the people who make rules
           | about how companies may trade, to ask for them to be
           | regulated when they are exercising a significant degree of
           | market power.
        
             | spideymans wrote:
             | Competition law should work in the inserts of consumers,
             | not private business. As long as consumers are voluntarily
             | choosing to lock themselves behind this walled garden, I
             | don't see why their user experience should be degraded to
             | further business interests.
        
             | hctaw wrote:
             | It's perfectly reasonable to not distribute on Apple
             | platforms. Many companies choose to do this, and have for
             | decades!
             | 
             | The viable alternative is a web page. But yes, if you want
             | the security and performance supported on a native Apple
             | platform, you have to play by Apple's rules.
             | 
             | Harm to companies isn't harm to consumers.
        
               | bmarquez wrote:
               | Except when Apple neglects web page technology (example:
               | push notifications are available on every browser
               | platform except iOS).
               | 
               | And harm to companies is harm to consumers when they
               | purchase products with applications that get taken away
               | due to Apple (example: I upgraded my iPhone to play
               | Fortnite, which was available on iOS at the time of
               | purchase -- now it's not).
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | Even then, it's clear that Google aspires to be more like
           | Apple with every iteration of their software. And the number
           | of people opting for Linux at this point are insignificant.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | It happens on open platforms, too. Trademark lawyer sends a
           | cease and desist. Unless you're flush with cash, you rename
           | the app.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | That's a feature for us iPhone users, not a bug. I don't need
         | to consider risk when I do anything on an iPhone as there is
         | next to no risk.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | What amazes me more is that people accept it.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | krzrak wrote:
         | > It's honestly amazing that there's basically no way to run
         | software on your iPhone unless Apple approves of every aspect
         | of it, including the name.
         | 
         | Frankly, I'm quite OK with that. Just today I was trying out
         | some apps for tracking baby sleep/feeding/pooping (my wife
         | expects to give birth in a week) and on iOS it was pretty nice
         | and safe experience, with clean apps and my only concern was
         | usability and features. I remembered my experience with
         | Android, where I would have to rake through hundreds of
         | fake/buggy/malicious apps.
        
           | droidist2 wrote:
           | I agree. It's fun to just download a few apps and try them
           | out. I enjoy installing new apps on my phone. I've heard
           | people say "I hate installing apps" and these people are
           | almost always Android users.
        
             | spideymans wrote:
             | I haven't used Android for a few years, but back when I did
             | it wasn't uncommon for me to come across apps that did
             | horrible things, such as completely hijacking the Android
             | UI to display ads or whatever. I bought into Apple's walled
             | garden specifically to get away from this garbage, and I'll
             | be none too pleased if legislation forces my user
             | experience to be degraded.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | You are conflating "app store" with "content filter".
           | 
           | You can have one without the other, or you can use both. Also
           | you could have a choice in which app store or which content
           | filter you use.
           | 
           | Apple happily lets you believe those concepts are one and the
           | same thing, though. And users buy into it.
        
           | Nullabillity wrote:
           | Facebook is still on iOS. Zoom is still on iOS.
        
           | libraryatnight wrote:
           | My younger self was all about the kind of freedom that makes
           | people hate Apple. But my younger self didn't see the
           | absolute disgusting mess the internet became (sorry teenage
           | me, it's not a utopia unhindered by borders, fueled by access
           | to free information). Now, sometimes I want Apple. Sometimes
           | I want Disneyland. I get why at Disneyland a man mysteriously
           | appeared out of nowhere in a red coat and white gloves to
           | tell me and my kid friends to turn the system of a down
           | coming from my buddies backpack speakers off because it's
           | disruptive to the atmosphere. It's why you can have faith if
           | you buy a Nintendo console you're going to get fun games
           | anyone can enjoy. I get why apple doesn't want trash on their
           | app store. When you buy Apple, you buy a device and an
           | atmosphere. It's clean. It works.
        
             | parineum wrote:
             | > sorry teenage me, it's not a utopia unhindered by
             | borders, fueled by access to free information
             | 
             | I'd argue that you found a walled garden inside of that
             | unhindered utopia.
        
         | voceboy521 wrote:
         | who cares. that's the point of apple. they're your daddy. you
         | can simply not use it
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | How is it amazing? That has been the case for game consoles and
         | other stuff for ages. Same for most mobile phones, for the
         | biggest part of their existance (where they just came with a
         | few OEM supplied apps and that's it).
         | 
         | That said, there is a way to run software that Apple doesn't
         | approve: jailbraking.
        
         | heterodoxxed wrote:
         | In exchange for an audience of 1.65 billion.
        
         | geofft wrote:
         | Why is that amazing? I pay Apple a premium for that feature.
         | 
         | Not everyone considers it a feature, and I'm glad that other
         | products exist to provide choice in the market. But I do, and
         | so do many others.
        
       | ellyagg wrote:
       | Just change it to Crabclub.
        
       | ttraub wrote:
       | Is 150,000 downloads enough to attain "hit" status in the iOS
       | world? On Android, anything less than half a million or so is
       | somewhat niche. 150K is a respectable number, but just saying.
       | 
       | Also, was the takedown initiated by the Clubhouse owner? Seems
       | like the ill will they have created is not worth whatever
       | imagined advantage.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | m1117 wrote:
       | Wait, crabhouse is older than clubhouse and is forced to change
       | its name? That's unfair.
        
       | avs733 wrote:
       | The actual reason for this aside, I would be much more interested
       | in using CrabHouse than ClubHouse, entirely based on the
       | description of the two and my experience with internet
       | communities.
        
       | peterkelly wrote:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
        
         | yesenadam wrote:
         | Fascinating, thanks! So Apple computers used to have
         | synthesizer/sound chips, and still might if it wasn't for the
         | Beatles!
         | 
         | This is about the Ensoniq synth chip, with 32 oscillators, that
         | was in the Apple IIGS: http://www.buchty.net/ensoniq/5503.html
        
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