[HN Gopher] A directory of handmade webpages
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       A directory of handmade webpages
        
       Author : cookingoils
       Score  : 112 points
       Date   : 2021-03-13 13:46 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (gossipsweb.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (gossipsweb.net)
        
       | tomcooks wrote:
       | Pity it costs money to submit sites,but I'm glad projects like
       | this exist
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | I can't imagine the fee causes any kind of practical problem,
         | unless someone doesn't have a credit/debit card -- it IS a
         | shame it doesn't support any other payment means. I'm currently
         | earning less than I'm paying out, and even I was happy to pay
         | the dollar! It makes the site that much more valuable that it
         | isn't overwhelmed by spam.
        
           | tomcooks wrote:
           | I'm not judging, it's the author's choice.
           | 
           | As I said, big up for the idea. Cheers.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | I think a nominal fee is necessary to ward off bots. $1 to
         | potentially get your site listed someplace where like-minded
         | people might see it is not bad.
         | 
         | The majority of these sites will never have enough content to
         | rank in the top 10 for some query on search engines. And if
         | you're not top 10, your site is essentially invisible.
         | 
         | without some kind of old-school directory/webring structure
         | that users can peruse, the odds of people continuing to make
         | and share personal websites (that aren't shilling a course or
         | product affiliate links) will dwindle to nothing.
         | 
         | Just today, I discovered this site by pure chance:
         | http://ratbehavior.org/PawPaintingRats.htm
         | 
         | An extremely information-dense site about rats, hand-coded
         | sometime in the '90s and last updated in 2012. A site like this
         | to me is fascinating, but increasingly a very rare breed.
        
       | mproud wrote:
       | Why do they all have to be so damn ugly?
        
         | alphabet9000 wrote:
         | it's an interesting thought experiment to try and make sense of
         | what it is about a website that makes it seem ugly, or not
         | ugly. at what point does an 'ugly' web site become beautiful?
         | is there a threshold?
         | 
         | i'd like to see an example of a site that you feel is not ugly,
         | not so i can be a contrarian and say 'well, i think _those_ are
         | ugly! ' but, just to get a feel for what you believe is
         | exemplary of beauty.
        
         | bandie91 wrote:
         | de gustibus non est disputandum
        
         | eplanit wrote:
         | That's what I say about most all commercial or "mainstream"
         | sites.
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | Some of the best content on the internet is "ugly." And by
         | that, I mean specifically this site: https://www.agner.org/
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | >It costs $1 to submit.
       | 
       | No thanks. I'll just keep my handmade websites to myself and let
       | people find them by surfing.
        
       | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
       | Aren't all webpages handmade to one extent or another? Or are
       | these webpages that don't use frameworks like React and Angular?
        
         | not_knuth wrote:
         | I don't think "handmade" should be taken to literally, but
         | rather be attached the meaning as described below.
         | 
         | In my experience there tends to be a strong correlation between
         | a website being hand-written and the quality of the content on
         | the website.
         | 
         | My hypothesis is that it somehow hits the sweetspot between:
         | 
         | - creating your own SSG and only writing mundane blogposts
         | about how you wrote that SSG (am guilty of this)
         | 
         | - and pumping out raw thoughts on
         | Twitter/Wordpress/Medium/Substack etc.
         | 
         | I think that is at least part of what this website is trying to
         | capture.
        
           | masswerk wrote:
           | In my experience, markdown doesn't offer much advantage over
           | HTML, as writing a few short tags isn't much of a burden.
           | (Even more so, if you use the old-style `b` and `i` phrase
           | elements, which are apparently considered ok again.
           | Personally, I still use `strong`, etc, which may be the most
           | annoying feature for hand-written HTML. But this can be fixed
           | by an editor shortcut.) Otherwise, a bit of server-side
           | scripting for adding headers and footers and providing
           | navigation is fine, but probably already outside the specs of
           | "entirely handmade".
        
             | yoz-y wrote:
             | For me the difference between writing markdown and writing
             | HTML directly is that if I use the latter, I won't actually
             | write the darn article. HTML is pretty bad for re-reading
             | and editing, as the tags get in the way.
        
               | dheera wrote:
               | I find the opposite. I almost never use Markdown unless
               | forced to.
               | 
               | I find it much easier to remember                   <a
               | href="https://foo.com"><img src="foo.jpg" width="300"
               | alt="foo"></a>
               | 
               | that some                   [foo(foo.jpg)]
               | 
               | or is it
               | (http://foo.com)[(foo.jpg)(alt=alt text)]
               | 
               | or is it                   [foo.com(foo.jpg) width=300]
               | 
               | or is it                   (foo.com)[foo.jpg](alt
               | text)[::width="300"]
               | 
               | ...? I can never remember the goddamn inconsistent
               | syntax.
               | 
               | and is it 2 asterisks for bold, 1 for italic, or 1 and 2,
               | or is it 2 and 3? With html it's
               | <b>this is bold</b> <i>this is italic</i>
               | <b><i>this is bold and italic</i></b>
               | 
               | Much easier to remember.
        
               | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
               | Same problem for me.
               | 
               | these syntaxes now suffer the same problem that forum
               | software went through... each has their own syntax and
               | they are not usually compatible.
               | 
               | HTML, for better or worse, is the syntax we all know by
               | heart and is universal.
        
               | masswerk wrote:
               | Same here.
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | I just write the article in the code editor, then go back
               | and add the tags.
               | 
               | Seems obvious to me, but maybe because back when I was a
               | journalist, that's how we did it. The tags (how and what
               | varied by system) triggered chryons and video playback
               | and other events.
        
             | stan_rogers wrote:
             | The "strong" and "b" tags don't mean the same thing, nor do
             | the "em" and "i" tags. HTML, used properly, will tell you
             | _why_ the typography appears as it does, which means that
             | the meaning isn 't locked up in the typographic conventions
             | of the day (which change, often making old documents
             | confusing to read, and are not accessible). Markdown is
             | lazy.
        
           | franklampard wrote:
           | adjective: hand-written written with a pen, pencil, or other
           | handheld implement.
           | 
           | ...?
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | All websites are the result of a human pushing power
             | through a cpu and sending low voltage signals to it via a
             | keyboard, so in a way all are handmade. That's why so many
             | are wondering what qualifies as handmaid to this site's
             | author - site builders like Wix-created sites probably
             | don't count but do SSGs count? What about using _any_ css
             | framework?
        
               | swayvil wrote:
               | Tho it's hard to define, it's pretty easy to distinguish.
               | 
               | I think this could be said about much of reality.
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _adjective: hand-written written with a pen, pencil, or
             | other handheld implement._
             | 
             | Lately I've been writing my personal web pages on my TRS-80
             | Model 100. I can hold that in my hands.
        
         | itsamoreh wrote:
         | Handmade in the sense that they don't use frameworks like React
         | or Angular. Just like how technically a box cake mix cake is
         | "homemade" but usually if someone says "homemade cake" they
         | made it from scratch.
        
         | pmlnr wrote:
         | "handmade" in this context usually refers to writing the raw
         | HTML yourself; no framework, no nothing.
        
           | qznc wrote:
           | So using Markdown or something similar disqualifies? Even if
           | i write the HTML template and generator script myself?
        
             | rzzzt wrote:
             | It depends. Did you write the scripting language?
        
             | stephenhuey wrote:
             | If you look at the submission form, he excludes "website
             | builders" which I think would exclude things like
             | Squarespace, Wix, etc. I suppose if one of those builder
             | tools let you use Markdown, that would not qualify, but if
             | you are using Markdown with something like Hugo or Jekyll,
             | that seems legitimately "handmade" to me, but I don't
             | operate that site. :)
        
       | lemonberry wrote:
       | At least one site is created using Roam Research. Does this
       | really qualify as handmade?
       | 
       | https://www.rodrigofranco.com/How_is_this_website_made.html
        
         | cookingoils wrote:
         | Thanks for letting me know. Some things slip through the cracks
         | and sometimes it's pretty hard to tell when a site is actually
         | coded by hand. I'll take a look at the submission in question.
        
           | lemonberry wrote:
           | You're welcome. I like the site in question, but it may not
           | fit the criteria you're using.
        
       | CA0DA wrote:
       | I think https://neocities.org has some of these same vibes,
       | except neocities also has hosting.
        
       | icsllaf wrote:
       | There are just so many websites on this page, all of which have
       | their own art style and their own experiments. Honestly makes me
       | feel very small on the internet but also happy that there are so
       | many people who do this kinda stuff.
        
       | eplanit wrote:
       | I really like a.slow.cab
        
         | imagine99 wrote:
         | Yes, me too. I actually wonder how the header graphic was made?
         | Looks very nice.
         | 
         | Although I must admit, I have no idea what this site is
         | supposed to be. Could be random musings from GPT-3 for all I
         | know (even the explainer is very cryptic). But as with all art,
         | one probably shouldn't ask too many questions :-)
         | 
         | Edit: Found a small arrow at the bottom that does in fact lead
         | to more content. Looks like it's from an actual person after
         | all ;-)
        
         | meetapoorvgupta wrote:
         | Looks like it got a lot of traffic. The author seems to have
         | removed all the links on the homepage and Google and archive.is
         | do not seem to have it in their indices either.
        
       | gchokov wrote:
       | How do we create a search engine which looks into hand crafted
       | sites only? Back to the roots!
        
         | ehonda wrote:
         | you should try wiby.org
        
       | mtarasevicius wrote:
       | Cool collection, but it seems like it's just modern examples.
       | Surprised scaruffi.com is not in this directory
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | Seems like a collection of websites that were manually
         | submitted by their creators. Scaruffi has been online for
         | decades, I doubt that person would be interested in submitting
         | to a website directory.
        
       | bwh2 wrote:
       | Cool idea and I submitted my site. You've got a minor bug - on a
       | tag page, the submit link goes to /tags/submit.
        
         | cookingoils wrote:
         | Thanks for letting me know. Fixed.
        
       | alexchamberlain wrote:
       | What definition of handmade does this use?
        
       | marijnz0r wrote:
       | Is it possible to pay with a different method than credit card?
        
       | avipars wrote:
       | why would it cost $1 to submit?
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | > The $1 submission fee goes toward running/maintaining the
         | directory (I make about $3-5/month on submissions so it's not
         | about the money).
         | 
         | Seems utterly reasonable to me.
        
       | cookingoils wrote:
       | Hey, it's Elliott (creator of Gossip's Web, Special Fish
       | https://special.fish, and other projects
       | (https://elliott.computer). Thanks for checking out Gossips.
       | There's a renewed interest in building websites by hand using
       | basic but powerful tools (HTML/CSS/a little JavaScript). Gossip's
       | is a directory of some of these sites and lets you submit your
       | own.
       | 
       | The submission criteria is pretty straight forward (no links to
       | social media or website builders). Also, please don't submit your
       | latest startup : ) . Personal websites, web experiments, and
       | small community sites are all very welcome. The $1 submission fee
       | goes toward running/maintaining the directory (I make about
       | $3-5/month on submissions so it's not about the money). Happy to
       | answer any questions the HN community might have and have a nice
       | weekend!
        
         | meowster wrote:
         | What is the color picker for?
        
           | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
           | Looks like each site is assigned a color which displays as a
           | square 'thumbnail' alongside it in listings.
        
             | meowster wrote:
             | I don't see any meaning to the colors, so I guess it's
             | whatever color you feel represents your site?
        
         | esoter wrote:
         | A word of warning: you'll have to browse or crawl these pages
         | periodically at minimum.
         | 
         | Best case would be to diff the latest page with various IPs and
         | user-agents against the known and then let you know when it
         | changes. Someone will inevitably submit a page that looks good,
         | then changes later or dynamically depending on datetime, user-
         | agent, request IP, etc. to become malicious.
         | 
         | Unfortunately, these are the sorts of problems that many
         | companies have to deal with automatically (like Google) or
         | manually that startups don't typically.
         | 
         | While you're charging, if someone can get by with paying $1 for
         | installing ransomware, they may do it.
         | 
         | It's a neat idea, but it's risky. I like what you've done,
         | though, and hope the artisanal webpage index pays for itself
         | and more quickly.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | Or he could just take people's word that they're honest human
           | beings. You know -- default to believing that people are
           | good, not evil.
           | 
           | Since he's charging to be on the list, there a very low
           | chance that he'll get flooded with bots from China, India,
           | and Russia pushing low-quality web sites.
           | 
           |  _someone can get by with paying $1 for installing
           | ransomware, they may do it._
           | 
           | Or some ransomware company may take over an abandoned domain
           | that' s linked from his page. Or some ransomware company may
           | buy one of the sites. Or some ransomware company...
           | Nevermind. Just don't build anything ever anywhere, because
           | of edge cases.
        
         | swayvil wrote:
         | I submitted. When does it appear in the directory?
        
           | cookingoils wrote:
           | Thanks for submitting. I got quite a few submissions from the
           | HN traffic. Going through them now to make sure they meet the
           | criteria.
        
             | swayvil wrote:
             | Hey there it is. If it was a snake it woulda bit me.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-13 23:02 UTC)