[HN Gopher] Binance under CFTC investigation over trading activi...
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       Binance under CFTC investigation over trading activities: report
        
       Author : edf13
       Score  : 77 points
       Date   : 2021-03-12 15:06 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theblockcrypto.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theblockcrypto.com)
        
       | edf13 wrote:
       | And the price of BNB falls...
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | Small relative to how much it went up and relative to
         | volatility
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | and in line with the whole market, nothing like the XRP / SEC
           | event.
        
       | savant_penguin wrote:
       | "The news comes just a day after Binance announced it has hired
       | Max Baucus, who served decades in the U.S. Senate"
       | 
       | The old game never changes
        
         | throwaway4good wrote:
         | With US "long-arm jurisdiction" comes US long-arm corruption
         | where companies with no business in the US are forced to pay US
         | lobbyists and US has-been politicians ...
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | s/forced/coerced/
           | 
           | It's not like binance is exactly squeaky clean here. Long-arm
           | jurisdiction means it impacts US citizens who are required to
           | pay taxes regardless of residence.
           | 
           | Couldn't Binance just reject doing business with US citizens
           | and not worry?
        
             | ur-whale wrote:
             | >US citizens who are required to pay taxes regardless of
             | residence.
             | 
             | US citizens and also Eritreans (there was Libya at some
             | point in time), so really, nothing to write home about.
        
             | FDSGSG wrote:
             | Binance is squeaky clean here, they do reject doing
             | business with US citizens (except for their US entity which
             | is fully compliant with US regulations and is not the
             | target of this investigation).
        
             | celticninja wrote:
             | Which is worse. This guy is going work for a known shady
             | organisation to help them manage regulations and set them
             | up so that their shady dealings end up within the law, or
             | they get a minor slap on the wrist, and they're allowed to
             | continue doing business.
        
             | Tenoke wrote:
             | That's exactly what it's doing (for .com), including
             | monitoring for vpns and other ways that users try to
             | circumvent. My guess is they'll be fine as I dont see what
             | more they could've been doing and I really doubt they were
             | allowing people they could tell are US citizens to use
             | Binance.com given all the comments from Americans over the
             | last months.
        
       | Tenoke wrote:
       | I guess it's maybe not the case but it does feel like the US are
       | doing everything to support trading only on the local and more
       | limited Coinbase.
       | 
       | Binance has already went as far as to forbid US customers from
       | using them, make a much worse but compliant US-only exchange, go
       | as far as they can in finding VPN users and others who subvert
       | the rules, hired a US senator to help them, and the US is still
       | making more moves against them.
       | 
       | The situation in the US is already really tedious if you want to
       | invest in many big (top 10, even top 5 projects) and to trade in
       | general in some states. It's disappointing to see.
        
         | cwkoss wrote:
         | Another spin on this situation would be "US is going after any
         | exchange which doesn't comply with US regs/guidance and
         | currently Coinbase is the only exchange willing/able to do so"
        
           | AMerePotato wrote:
           | Maybe the US needs to change it's regulations. It's handling
           | of cryptocurrency is hostile to legitimate use of the
           | technology. The current tax situation being the worst of it
           | in my opinion
        
         | iamacyborg wrote:
         | I mean, don't you think it's reasonable for a government to
         | want to ensure that their citizens aren't being ripped off or
         | able to participate in illegal activities?
        
           | Tenoke wrote:
           | Is the implication that (almost?) every other western country
           | wants their citizens to be ripped off because they allow
           | Binance? I don't think it's quite as simple as that..
        
             | woodruffw wrote:
             | I think the more likely implication is that the US casts a
             | wide shadow over international financial regulations, and
             | that other countries that seek to do business with or in
             | the US will aim to regulate in lockstep with the US.
             | 
             | To that extent, waiting until the US fixes a source of
             | fraud is strategically reasonable.
        
           | kemonocode wrote:
           | Surely that's only in the best interest of the people, just
           | like in all the areas a major government has a vested
           | interest in exerting a large amount of control upon. Surely.
           | 
           | EDIT: wording
        
       | jcpham2 wrote:
       | This is unsurprising. They'll pay a fine.
        
         | Tenoke wrote:
         | For what? They've went above and beyond to prevent US citizens
         | to trade with their main exchange and to only leave a gimped
         | version in the US.
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | that should not be hard. they can pay from one of the
         | presumably thousands of accounts frozen and money/crypto stolen
         | 
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/lye4n5/bina...
        
           | freebuju wrote:
           | Crypto subs on reddit are not exactly famous for being
           | trustworthy sources
        
       | ahelwer wrote:
       | Maybe triggered by the sheer quantity of tax returns filed this
       | year listing Binance as the platform used to trade
       | cryptocurrency.
       | 
       | Binance has binance.us for Americans but the selection is much
       | worse and it is trivial to continue using regular binance with a
       | VPN.
        
         | mszcz wrote:
         | I never truly understood that - prohibiting companies outside
         | of US from getting American customers. If the US govt doesn't
         | want that to occur maybe they should police their citizens
         | instead and see how that goes? I mean, an American citizen
         | signs up for a service that he's forbidden from using and
         | somehow that's the company's (that's offering that service)
         | fault? Looks to me like trying to pass off doing your bidding
         | to others.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _an American citizen signs up for a service that he 's
           | forbidden from using and somehow that's the company's (that's
           | offering that service) fault?_
           | 
           | Americans aren't forbidden from using Binance by the U.S. The
           | U.S. says if you're doing business with Americans, you have
           | to follow these rules. Binance isn't following those rules.
           | 
           | One solution is to follow those rules. Another is to not do
           | business with Americans. Either way, the obligation is on the
           | vender. Not the consumer. (If the consumer lies about being
           | American, the vender may be able to collect damages.)
        
             | mszcz wrote:
             | > Binance isn't following those rules.
             | 
             | Allegedly ;)
             | 
             | > Either way, the obligation is on the vender.
             | 
             | Yes, but that's an obligation that's put forward by the US
             | govt. If I'm incorporated in another country why do I have
             | to concern myself with their market regulations?
        
           | wmf wrote:
           | US investment regulators are determined to see investors as
           | victims and other parties (crypto exchanges in this case) as
           | perpetrators even if that's not quite what's happening. You
           | can profit from something you know is a ponzi or pump-and-
           | dump and you're still the victim. (The only exception I know
           | of is the Madoff clawbacks.)
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | thebean11 wrote:
         | I don't think you'd normally report the exchange used to trade
         | on your tax return, just the transactions themselves.
         | 
         | They can definitely make assumptions, though, when you report
         | you sold XYZ coin that's not traded on any US-regulated
         | exchanges.
        
           | ahelwer wrote:
           | For cryptocurrencies there is a field where you fill out the
           | institution on which you executed the trade.
        
             | rafale wrote:
             | Never seen that. What form has it?
        
               | ahelwer wrote:
               | Ah, turbotax exposed the field but looking at the
               | generated form 8949 I see the info wasn't passed on to
               | the return.
        
       | lucasnortj wrote:
       | Good. Crypto is nonsense. Ban it already
        
       | sakopov wrote:
       | AFAIK, binance.com still allows logins from the US (if you have
       | an old account from a few years back), you just can't trade in it
       | (supposedly). However, you can transfer funds out of the account.
       | 
       | I had some coins stashed away on my binance.com wallets which I
       | ended up transferring to binance.us and they sent me an email
       | telling me that my binance.com account will be disabled after a 2
       | week grace period because I'm accessing it from the US. It's been
       | more than a month now and I can still log into it. It seems that
       | Binance took a more lax approach to this than other exchanges in
       | the past which is biting them now.
        
         | _rtld_global_ro wrote:
         | It's not the case for me, I can login but my funds are a lost
         | cause I'd suggest you transfer them out while you still can. On
         | a hindsight I have no idea why I'd used it, it shady as hell I
         | hope US sue them to oblivion but I doubt it would happen in a
         | meaningful way. (rant)
        
           | elliekelly wrote:
           | > but my funds are a lost cause
           | 
           | Can you explain what you mean? Do they not even appear in
           | your account when you log in? Or are you for some reason
           | prevented from transferring them?
        
         | bonestamp2 wrote:
         | > It's been more than a month now and I can still log into it
         | 
         | I'm glad I can still login. I needed the info in there to
         | complete my 2020 taxes. I exported all my data from 2021 too
         | incase I can't login next year. I would advise doing the same.
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | maybe binance should be investigated for theft
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/lye4n5/bina...
       | 
       | these agencies always focus on the wrongs things to investigate
        
         | csomar wrote:
         | To begin an investigation (by the USA) they need first to
         | establish that Binance has been operating in the US (aka US
         | customers).
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _they need first to establish that Binance has been
           | operating in the US (aka US customers)._
           | 
           | Tether allegedly owns billions of U.S. dollars in a Bahamas
           | account. Tether is a Binance affiliate. They are subject to
           | U.S. jurisdiction.
        
           | Kranar wrote:
           | As per US charges against FIFA officials, the US claims
           | extraterritorial jurisdiction over any matter involving US
           | dollar transactions.
        
         | StreamBright wrote:
         | First of all it is a clear case for law enforcement to get
         | involved, I am not on Binance side on this one. However, I
         | would strongly discourage anybody to start investing in crypto
         | with a 100K ticket. It is much better to try it with 100USD and
         | see how it works and start to put in a fix amount every month.
        
         | Kranar wrote:
         | No theft took place there. The user made an unbelievably poor
         | decision to wire 100k out of a business account into a personal
         | account where the names don't match up. Furthermore the person
         | communicating with Binance is not the legal owner of the
         | account but instead the grandchild of the legal owner.
         | 
         | Third, the legal owner of the account is apparently afraid of
         | using online banking, but not afraid of cryptocurrency and this
         | is used as a justification for not just using the simple ACH
         | method that could have resolved this whole thing in a matter of
         | days.
         | 
         | If you're Binance, everything about this looks like money
         | laundering and Binance is absolutely in the right to have acted
         | this way. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if Binance
         | reported this to the authorities.
        
           | pinkybanana wrote:
           | To me it sounds so weird, that it is quite difficult to
           | believe that it is not money laundering. Sounds exactly like
           | someone somehow gained access to some old, retired persons
           | old business account and decided to cash it out via crypto.
        
           | sjtindell wrote:
           | I agree completely. Particularly the part of the story where
           | they refused to use ACH. Supposedly this person has run a
           | business before but did not employ a lawyer or even visit one
           | at any stage?
        
         | kaetemi wrote:
         | Considering that support asked about him logging on from
         | different locations, I'd guess he logged on to US binance from
         | a foreign VPN at one point. That, in combination with a wire
         | from a business account to a private binance account.
         | Definitely flags on that account.
         | 
         | Based on such flags, they might assume the source account is a
         | stolen account, and I suppose they have to make sure the money
         | goes back to the legitimate owner, not just back to the
         | assumed-to-be-compromised account.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | What they are under investigation for now is much bigger than
         | some random person loosing $100K which is a small sum when you
         | consider the size of the whole market.
         | 
         | And even so, nothing is stopping any agency from having
         | multiple investigations running at the same time, one does not
         | exclude the other and all that.
        
       | SubiculumCode wrote:
       | Binance.us is legal, right? When I tried to sign up for
       | binance.com (not knowing better) it said that I needed to use
       | binance.com instead.
       | 
       | edit:removed unintentional coin shilling.
        
         | josefresco wrote:
         | I signed up for Binance.US about two months back. It's legit
         | but a very low quality offering. Support is just massively
         | overwhelmed and unresponsive. But most exchanges are
         | overwhelmed now so it's not that unusual.
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | Same, I signed up when GME/DOGE both started spiking since I
           | have DOGE laying around in a wallet. Getting coins into the
           | exchange was easy enough and I can't comment on trying to
           | withdraw but I can say the verification stuff is stupid-slow.
           | I've provided info for all 3 tiers of verification and my
           | account has sat in "pending" for over a month on the last
           | step (first step was instant, second step took a week or so).
           | 
           | I can always buy BTC on coinbase and transfer them over then
           | convert them to USD/(T) but that's not ideal.
        
         | bondarchuk wrote:
         | Please don't shill coins here, even if you don't intend it that
         | way.
        
           | SubiculumCode wrote:
           | Oh I suppose it did come off that way. My bad.
        
       | olalonde wrote:
       | > The news comes just a day after Binance announced it has hired
       | Max Baucus, who served decades in the U.S. Senate and later as an
       | ambassador to China, to help the firm navigate the U.S.
       | regulatory landscape. Binance said Thursday that Baucus will
       | provide the exchange with policy guidance and act as a liaison
       | between Binance and regulators.
       | 
       | Crony capitalism is alive and well in the US...
        
       | chizhik-pyzhik wrote:
       | It's trivial as a US resident to use binance.com using a VPN.
       | There is no KYC requirement and they do nothing to block VPN IPs.
        
       | qeternity wrote:
       | Binance led the migration to USDT as the default reserve currency
       | in the crypto ecosystem.
       | 
       | This could get very spicy.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | not bitfinex?
        
           | qeternity wrote:
           | iFinex own Tether, but it was Binance who really led the
           | charge.
           | 
           | I don't know who the real puppet master is...they're all in
           | cahoots (i.e. Binance and FTX). The illusion of choice is
           | alive and well.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-12 23:02 UTC)