[HN Gopher] Duolingo's language notes all on one page
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       Duolingo's language notes all on one page
        
       Author : rococode
       Score  : 119 points
       Date   : 2021-03-11 18:41 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (duome.eu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (duome.eu)
        
       | agluszak wrote:
       | Not that I love Duolingo, but isn't that copyright infringement?
       | Are this "notes" simply copied from the app?
        
         | rococode wrote:
         | Technically yes, but they've been in touch with Duolingo's CTO
         | and it seems like Duolingo is OK with it for now.
         | 
         | https://duome.eu/copyright
         | 
         | https://duome.eu/blog/16.04.2018
         | 
         | > Durung the past few weeks I have been talking to Severin
         | Hacker, the co-founder and CTO of Duolingo. To make a long
         | story short: they do like the idea, but they need to own the
         | domain [context for HN: original domain was duolingo.eu] and
         | they're going to redirect it to duolingo.com so the old forum
         | links will stop working in a couple of weeks from now.
        
         | pretendscholar wrote:
         | Volunteers do free work to make all of the language content so
         | it shouldn't be.
        
           | mannerheim wrote:
           | That doesn't make it not copyright infringement. Either the
           | volunteers retained ownership of the content they produced,
           | in which case this is infringing on their copyright, or they
           | assigned it to Duolingo, in which case, Duolingo's.
        
             | pretendscholar wrote:
             | > so it shouldn't be.
             | 
             | I specifically framed it that way so that the WELL
             | AKSHUALLY crowd wouldn't say what you just said.
        
       | kgin wrote:
       | Amazing how much clearer it is having this all in one place and
       | not just sprinkled like bacon bits across a million screens.
        
       | quattrofan wrote:
       | I love Duolingo but they really drop the ball it making it great
       | and not just good. Why can't I bookmark useful info, see it all
       | in one place, share stuff etc. This solves onr of those.
        
         | rolandog wrote:
         | I'm a bit pessimistic that it might become a public company.
        
       | jimbob45 wrote:
       | Not a bad idea to skim through the appropriate page when you're
       | starting a program to avoid the inevitable gotchas. The Spanish
       | one would have instantly solved my confusion over the idiomatic
       | "buenos dias".
        
         | InitialLastName wrote:
         | For me it just now clarified the accent marker homophone thing
         | in Spanish in a way that Duolingo didn't (My only other
         | language experience was high school Latin, where accent markers
         | are more likely to be declension/conjugation indicators).
        
       | DC-3 wrote:
       | Cool, I guess. But you're probably better off just downloading a
       | real textbook. The PDFs aren't hard to find.
        
         | showerst wrote:
         | Duolingo is a lousy way to learn a language, but it's great for
         | vocabulary practice. It also teaches typing on a phone
         | keyboard, which is a great skill for languages that use a non-
         | latin charset.
         | 
         | Having these handy might help with some of the gotchas if you
         | forget while using it.
        
           | ben_w wrote:
           | It has some strengths as well as some weaknesses.
           | 
           | I've used it to teach myself the equivalent of GCSE grade B
           | (but sadly not a useful CEFR level) in German several years
           | ago, yet after reaching that level of total effort in Greek
           | and Esperanto a little more recently I feel almost useless in
           | the former and only slightly better in the latter (and
           | Esperanto is the easy one!)
           | 
           | I've also been doing at least one Duo Arabic lesson per day
           | since 24 September last year, and still don't know that
           | alphabet. (Doesn't help that particular course renders some
           | of the pronunciation guide symbols as "2" and "3", but this
           | is _definitely not_ the only thing holding me back).
        
             | showerst wrote:
             | Yeah, I've finished Arabic and I'm on the fence if I'd do
             | it again, Arabic just doesn't work that well in their
             | model.
             | 
             | I came into it already knowing how to read and write, and
             | just wanting vocab, grammar, and typing practice. It was
             | pretty decent for that, although the early lessons were
             | absolutely jam packed with errors. I think that may have
             | been fixed now. The later lessons they released were much
             | better, so I assume they've improved the earlier ones.
             | 
             | As a side note, https://www.amazon.com/Arabic-Alphabet-How-
             | Read-Write/dp/081... is really excellent, and not very
             | pricey. If you do a few letters a day and really practice
             | you'll be able to transliterate in a couple of weeks.
        
           | simias wrote:
           | I think Duolingo is fine for reading comprehension and basic
           | sentence-building skills, but I think there are many better
           | apps for vocabulary learning, such as Anki, Memrise and
           | Closemaster.
           | 
           | The problem with Duolingo is that it doesn't really implement
           | spaced repetition if you go down the tree in sequence. If you
           | do a lesson about, say, technology you'll end up being
           | prompted for "file", "mouse", "website" etc... over and over
           | again, then you'll move on and basically never meet these
           | words until you decide to redo this lesson.
           | 
           | I've just ended my 1200+ days Duoling streak literally two
           | days ago, so I won't pretend that I hate it, but I must say
           | that finally reaching my objective of getting a fully gilded
           | Russian tree was a relief. I was getting really annoyed at
           | the owl and its idiosyncrasies towards the end.
        
             | jfengel wrote:
             | How well would you say you know Russian after a fully-
             | gilded tree?
             | 
             | I was in the process of pushing French up to level 2 when
             | they introduced a ton of new content. So I'm projecting my
             | way back up to a full level 1. (I had boostrapped that with
             | Pimsleur.)
             | 
             | That, plus reading, a few podcasts, and Netflix has gotten
             | me to the point where I can push my way through a young
             | adult novel (with a dictionary) or watch a kid's show
             | (usually with the subtitles, since French is a terrible,
             | terrible language to listen to).
             | 
             | So I'm curious what it's like after 1200 days. (My current
             | streak is about 400. Early in the pandemic I'd do a dozen
             | lessons a day; now I do the bare minimum.) How would you
             | describe your familiarity with the language?
        
               | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
               | I have 760+ streak in Spanish, 6 milestones fully done,
               | 7th is done to level 3. I can understand about 75% of
               | what is spoken in youtube videos, and about 90% if the
               | video is slowed down to 75% speed.
               | 
               | Weakest skill is speaking, but I'd do mostly ok renting a
               | hotel or ordering food.
        
           | tmountain wrote:
           | It's lousy in a vacuum, but it's a good tool for a subset of
           | the problems associated with learning a language. There's no
           | singular tool that solves all of the issues, so success in
           | learning any language unfortunately relies on a certain level
           | of self-guided learning (and perseverance more than
           | anything).
        
             | hombre_fatal wrote:
             | Yep, complaining about Duolingo suggests to me that someone
             | thinks any single resource is going to be a silver bullet.
             | Otherwise it's meaningless to complain that a single
             | resource isn't a silver bullet.
             | 
             | I used Duolingo to reach a place where I could read books
             | in Spanish, and then I switched to books. It can't be that
             | bad.
             | 
             | The best tools are the ones you use. If Duolingo is the
             | tool that compels you to advance your practice, then it's
             | de facto better than the ones that don't compel you that
             | you never use.
        
               | showerst wrote:
               | I didn't mean to criticize Duolingo for not being a
               | silver bullet, but they definitely do market it as one.
               | They literally say right on their homepage that using it
               | for 34 hours is equal to a semester of university
               | language class. When googling it I got an ad with the
               | text "All you need to learn your next language".
               | 
               | FWIW I like duolingo, but I wish they were clearer about
               | their strengths and weaknesses. I've maxed out Arabic,
               | and am halfway through French. I got about 1/3 through
               | Japanese before giving up because their approach just
               | doesn't work for it. It clearly works much better for
               | latin languages, and even in Arabic it's great for vocab
               | but lousy for grammar and idioms. As I said in my top
               | post, I think phone typing is an underrated skill,
               | particularly for a foreigner in a new country.
               | 
               | Nothing short of time and immersion are going to solidly
               | teach just about anybody a language, but I have some
               | friends who've tried it and then got discouraged on
               | language learning all together because of the frustrating
               | parts of the app, and the fake sense of progress that's
               | inherent in some of their marketing =(. On the other hand
               | I'm on a 600+ day streak and have gained a ton from the
               | app pressuring me to come back every single day.
        
           | cassepipe wrote:
           | And I am glad it exists because of that. I can read any
           | language grammar book and maybe even try some exercises but
           | what only Duolingo offers is what's missing when you are not
           | in the country : practicing the language every day. (The site
           | is better than the app I think)
        
           | cassepipe wrote:
           | And I am glad it exists because of that. I can read any
           | language grammar book and maybe even try some exercises but
           | what only Duolingo offers is what's missing when you are not
           | in the country : practicing the language every day. (The
           | website is better than the app where you just have to tap the
           | right word in a list of words, you actually have to remember)
        
         | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
         | A lot of textbooks are group based or not test friendly
        
         | johnasmith wrote:
         | Different programs present content in different ways. If you're
         | learning with Duolingo, it's convenient to have the content
         | organized in the same way.
        
       | Const-me wrote:
       | The CSS is less than ideal. I clicked "Japanese", and despite I
       | have a 4k display with 150% DPI scaling, difference between su
       | and zu is barely visible.
       | 
       | It's totally OK here on HN because 99.9% is English, but I think
       | this is quite important for language learners.
        
         | jtvjan wrote:
         | Looks fine for me, but I'm using a 1080p display. Maybe change
         | the font settings in your browser?
        
       | gpantazes wrote:
       | As a Duolingo user, I am pleasantly surprised to find this site
       | today. This site seems to ~~solve~~ mitigate problems I've been
       | having with tips (or more accurately, lack of tip accessibility
       | on the iOS app for certain languages).
       | 
       | To be honest, I've never really thought about viewing all tips on
       | the same page, although that is very convenient. A fine feature
       | that should probably be adopted by Duolingo as well.
       | 
       | The convenient one-page format ~~solves~~ mitigates a different
       | issue I've been having lately though. Duolingo doesn't
       | consistently publish (existing!) tips to all Duolingo
       | frontends/apps. Well-supported languages get the best tip-content
       | support, but languages that aren't as supported sometimes don't
       | have tip present even if the tip content exists.
       | 
       | For example:
       | 
       | - Duolingo Web always has tips if tip content exists. This acts
       | like a source of truth, as far as I'm aware.
       | 
       | - Spanish is a language which has tip content both on Web and
       | iOS. I believe this is because Spanish is popular and well-
       | supported.
       | 
       | - Greek is a language where tip content is not accessible via the
       | iOS app, but is present on the web site. I believe this is
       | because incorporating the presentation of tips is probably some
       | hardcoded markup thing (React?) and nobody has gotten around to
       | doing it yet. Also, there's a possibility that the underlying
       | documents need different rendering treatment or style
       | enforcement, and have been omitted from the mobile app on
       | purpose. Still, this is a thorn in my side.
       | 
       | So for me, a one-page-tips fills a gap in the Duolingo UX (which
       | should probably probably be fixed on Duolingo's end since this
       | simply seems to be a prioritization/maintenance/time/effort
       | problem).
       | 
       | As a user, I'd like an easy way to refer to the tips before each
       | lesson without pulling up the actual Duolingo web app -
       | otherwise, why don't I just do my actual lessons on the web app
       | as well? Usually I'm doing lessons on my phone, not my computer,
       | because the phone is not only more convenient (small) but it's
       | easier to change keyboards and type in non-latin alphabets.
        
       | dominotw wrote:
       | You can do bunch of cool stuff on there too like view your
       | profile
       | 
       | https://duome.eu/<profile-name>
       | 
       | compare yourself to other profiles ect.
        
       | jimkleiber wrote:
       | When I was learning Swahili while living in Tanzania, I used the
       | Teach Yourself series and it really helped me. I loved how it had
       | such a strong focus on grammar.
       | 
       | Similarly, I think I will love this link. I didn't like having to
       | click through Duolingo's gamified structure to get at the
       | grammatical rules, and I've also struggled to find such coherent
       | sets of grammar on other websites. Maybe Duolingo is less
       | gamified than it was before, and yet, I still think I will love
       | having all of the grammar lessons in one spot.
       | 
       | Thank you for building this!
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-11 23:01 UTC)