[HN Gopher] Why I Didn't Open-Source My Second SaaS
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Why I Didn't Open-Source My Second SaaS
        
       Author : amzans
       Score  : 118 points
       Date   : 2021-03-11 15:15 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (panelbear.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (panelbear.com)
        
       | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
       | I once thought that the worst in opensource are forum people
       | (later replaced by GitHub people) who demand premium service when
       | they encounter a bug. But then I learned that the worst in
       | opensource are users with access to reviews with rating:
       | 
       |  _I give you 1 /5 because the app doesn't do what I want and you
       | don't kiss my ass nice enough. You don't know how to treat your
       | customers right, how childish of you to ask money to fix my
       | particular problem!!_
       | 
       | For some reason a lot of people believe that leaving a review
       | with bad rating for a free and opensource app will motivate the
       | developers fix the issue asap, in hope that the user will change
       | the rating to 2/5.
        
         | laurent92 wrote:
         | > who demand premium service when encountering a bug
         | 
         | In the same vein, I have a bully, he both writes me on my
         | professional email (to ask me for reparations), AND writes me
         | on public forums 12hrs later asking why I didn't answer him
         | yet. So it is not only free users who expect premium service,
         | nowadays even bullies expect 12-hrs response ;)
         | 
         | (For all I'm concerned, he can go to court if he really
         | believes I owe him something, I give it 0% chance, but he's
         | clinging to his illusions).
        
           | mrtksn wrote:
           | I'm curious, what's his claim? Used your software, something
           | happened making lose data or anything like that?
        
             | laurent92 wrote:
             | Sorry for the off-topic, it is a very lowerclass problem:
             | We did Youtube episodes at 4 people and we noticed he had a
             | private life that we didn't want to be associated with, so
             | we removed him from the next episodes (under a false
             | pretense to avoid saying in public what we had discovered).
             | So he wants 15k because we've kept the previous episodes
             | online (to which he was interviewed knowingly, didn't say
             | anything abnormal either, there's only his first name, and
             | only the voice no video, it's ~8k views, not monetized),
             | and he said even if we removed them he'd keep on taking
             | revenge for the next 30 years. So we estimated it wasn't
             | worth removing the other episodes, given the debate was
             | still interesting, and given he would move on to whatever
             | the next step of his plan his, and I'm not the one with
             | control over the videos anyway. It's very he-said-she-
             | said/low-IQ/honor-system-with-angry-people, I'm ashamed of
             | myself for having been involved in this dispute, I hadn't
             | recognized the bad side of his character earlier. In the
             | end I think he's just afraid that we tell his private thing
             | in public, but the more he angers us, the more he risks one
             | of us to leak it out of annoyance. That was 2 years ago, I
             | would just like him to stop trying to find my address, but
             | I'm not going to give him 15kEUR either.
             | 
             | Just lowerclass problems.
        
         | getpolarized wrote:
         | The problem is that 95% of users are awesome but 5% are VERY
         | aggressive and angry.
         | 
         | The amount of people that personally attack you and accuse you
         | of horrible things should be zero.
         | 
         | I've also seen users personally using our forums to try to get
         | the software for free and complaining it costs too much money.
         | 
         | As soon as it's clear that one of the developers is listening
         | they go quiet but it's super disheartening when your community,
         | which should be supporting you, feels so entitled.
        
           | rurp wrote:
           | > The problem is that 95% of users are awesome but 5% are
           | VERY aggressive and angry.
           | 
           | Interestingly enough I used to have a customer facing job in
           | a completely different industry and it was exactly the same
           | situation there. 90-95% of customers were great; they were
           | pleasant and easy to deal with. But man, the bad ones took up
           | sooo much time and energy, it was ridiculous.
        
         | hydroxideOH- wrote:
         | This is what happens with my open source Chrome extension's
         | reviews on the Chrome Web Store. Not that you can really make
         | money off of extensions even if I wanted to, but such is life.
        
           | Glench wrote:
           | Heh, it is totally possible to make money off extensions. You
           | just need to provide value. Here are some examples:
           | 
           | - $100k with a browser extension:
           | https://www.indiehackers.com/post/css-scan-made-
           | over-100k-d6...
           | 
           | - $38k/month with a browser extension:
           | https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/187-jordan-oconnor-
           | of-c...
           | 
           | - $3.1k/month with a browser extension:
           | https://www.indiehackers.com/product/night-eye
           | 
           | - $2.5k/month with a browser extension:
           | https://www.indiehackers.com/interview/weather-extension-
           | ad9...
        
             | cercatrova wrote:
             | Not to mention Honey, which sold to PayPal for $4 billion.
        
           | seanwilson wrote:
           | > Not that you can really make money off of extensions even
           | if I wanted to, but such is life.
           | 
           | Why not? There's successful projects selling or based around
           | extensions.
        
         | j1elo wrote:
         | " _I 'm sorry let me refund the money you paid for this_" must
         | be the all time favorite answer for stubborn or impolite users
         | of software that has been provided for free and with no strings
         | attached.
         | 
         | My second favorite (would be first if not for the slightly
         | snarky style) is " _Please, go read the License_ ". This is to
         | say that the License typically states that "this software is
         | provided AS-IS with no guarantees at all", but in a very
         | indirect way that most people won't understand when told to
         | them... but I still like that answer, FWIW :-)
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | moosebear847 wrote:
           | Lol what the heck, the first one is WAY more snarky than the
           | second! Unless you meant that the second is just not dripping
           | in enough snark.
        
       | sylvain_kerkour wrote:
       | Very good read, Thanks!
        
       | mattkrick wrote:
       | I built an open-source B2B SaaS that recently raised its Series
       | A. While I'm not a solo founder, we were a team of 3 up until we
       | raised our seed.
       | 
       | The difference I see is traduora looks like a project, not a
       | company. Sell support! Don't give it away for free. If someone
       | asks me for a bugfix, I show them the ticket in our open backlog
       | & tell them if they want it done faster, they have to pay. Seeing
       | their concern turned in to a ticket shows them that I care, but
       | telling them I prioritize paid fixes tells them it's not a
       | charity. Don't let them feel entitled.
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | If they opt to not pay do you leave the bug in your system
         | forever?
         | 
         | I've always been a little annoyed at this model, because with
         | so many companies it comes down to "I paid you $120,000/year
         | for this support contract and you're telling me you've been
         | able to track down this bug I reported, but you're not going to
         | fix it because it's not on the project your developers are
         | currently working on." And then they get really miffed if you
         | drop the support contract next year, telling us how we'll be
         | locked out of security and feature updates, even though there
         | were zero releases in the past calendar year. If I'm playing
         | for the equivalent of a full time junior developer I expect at
         | least some action on my bug reports.
        
           | gcheong wrote:
           | If they opt not to pay then the bug gets fixed according to
           | severity and priority in the regular development cycles. It's
           | possible it will never get fixed. I see your point with paid
           | support contracts that don't give you anything, and you would
           | be justified to cut your losses, but I think this was more
           | specific to individual bugs that a company wants to up the
           | priority for.
        
       | kureikain wrote:
       | I used to swear by Open Source try to build an uptime monitoring
       | but failed https://github.com/yeo/notyim and a few other thing.
       | 
       | Eventually one day I want to do email forwarding, I was thinking
       | open source or not and pretty much chooese to go with close-
       | source for now.
       | 
       | I can see myself open source in the future when I get enough
       | customers and I have more time to cleanup the private stuff in
       | our mono repository right now.
       | 
       | But for an early self-bootstrap self-funded I feel like focus too
       | much on Open Source and I don't have time to focus on the growth
       | or marketing.
       | 
       | I finally release my first SaaS this year, make $78/month right
       | now(don't laugh at me). https://hanami.run
       | 
       | I would say I'm not against opensource and it definetely work for
       | others, but for me, by not going open source I can focus on the
       | business itself. With that being, I contributed back such as a
       | mail parser https://github.com/yeo/parsemail
       | https://github.com/yeo/pix
       | 
       | I can imagine myself release a lite-version(our early prototype)
       | where we can forward email using a config file, instead of a
       | database with all the user, membership stuff that no one care
       | about if you want to self-hosted my SaaS.
        
       | StavrosK wrote:
       | This is semi off topic, but the sentence "housing in Munich has
       | gone insane" struck me. Housing in my city in Greece has gone
       | crazy too, a two-bedroom apartment costs significantly more than
       | minimum wage, and I don't know who can afford to stay there.
       | 
       | Does anyone why housing everywhere seems to be going nuts? This
       | can't be a good sign.
        
         | sofixa wrote:
         | > Does anyone why housing everywhere seems to be going nuts?
         | This can't be a good sign.
         | 
         | It will depend on the location, but usually a mix of more
         | people in the big cities, inflation, low interest rates ( so
         | low mortgage rates), physical constraints ( most cities can't
         | sprawl forever), sometimes regulations ( like zoning).
         | 
         | It's mostly in big cities though, go to a small one without any
         | obvious geographic advantage ( like being on the seaside), and
         | prices are usually much lower and stagnating.
         | 
         | Also depending on location, IMHO the pandemic has shown to a
         | lot of people that remote work is possible and can be
         | productive, so there will be some moves towards smaller cities
         | and villages + remote working for big city businesses.
        
           | StavrosK wrote:
           | That makes sense, thanks. I expected prices in the big city
           | to drop too in the pandemic (at least because of a drop in
           | tourism), but, if anything, they've gone up...
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | This is how it happens in California, do many of these happen
         | in Europe?
         | 
         | - Populations are growing.
         | 
         | - Younger folks would rather live in the city.
         | 
         | - Sets of homeowners and voters heavily overlap.
         | 
         | - Government supports homeowners via tax policy, all housing is
         | already taken.
         | 
         | - Existing homeowners prevent new construction.
         | 
         | - Some portion of renters enjoying rent control also support
         | NIMBY policies.
         | 
         | A perfect recipe for housing scarcity and therefore high
         | prices.
        
           | StavrosK wrote:
           | If anything, populations here are declining, the set of
           | voters is basically "everyone", or near enough, owning a home
           | isn't _particularly_ supported? Though not discouraged
           | either, there is quite a bit of new construction, but on the
           | outskirts of the city (as happens usually), and there are no
           | rent-control policies.
           | 
           | This is why I'm mystified as to what's driving prices up,
           | I've heard things like increasing tourism making owning a
           | home a good investment, foreigners buying homes to get
           | citizenship (a "golden passport"), and foreigners trying to
           | spend their unlaundered fortunes abroad.
        
       | marvinblum wrote:
       | A few months ago, I've started a similar analytics project [0],
       | which I have now turned into a product [1] together with my co-
       | founder. The difference to Panelbear is, that I've started this
       | to be used on my personal website, so it was open-source right
       | from the beginning and without the intention to make money. In
       | fact, you can still use our core library for free (AGPL
       | licensed).
       | 
       | When we looked at the other solutions out there, we saw that a
       | lot of them offer a self-hosted version for free. Giving away
       | whole products for free has become a trend I don't anticipate.
       | You can be sure there is an open-source, free as in free beer
       | replacement for almost anything, which makes it really hard to
       | build a sustainable business. While you _can_ generate some
       | traction off of it, you also have to deal with people asking for
       | free support, new features, bug fixes, and so on. I have quite a
       | lot of open-source projects, one of them is a game server
       | management web UI [2]. It breaks my heard every time I have to
       | tell someone that I can 't support their request. There are cases
       | where it makes sense to have the product fully open-source of
       | course, like an operating system, or anything that can be
       | considered "infrastructure".
       | 
       | Writing software is difficult and it takes countless hours to
       | build something useful that is non-trivial. If it's something a
       | lot of people rely on, think about charging for it, instead of
       | giving it away for free. But in the end it's your time after all.
       | 
       | [0] https://github.com/pirsch-analytics/pirsch
       | 
       | [1] https://pirsch.io/
       | 
       | [2] https://github.com/assetto-corsa-web/accweb
        
       | candiddevmike wrote:
       | I came to a similar junction with my app. It's B2C SaaS, and I
       | bluntly want to earn money for all the years I put into it. I
       | chose to add a free tier and self hosting as a compromise.
       | 
       | In the future, I would love to open source it. But for now, all I
       | see in other B2C/consumer OSS projects is a lot of complaining,
       | frustration, and extra work without a benefit to my paying
       | customers.
        
       | vemv wrote:
       | How about: business logic is and remains private, but support
       | libraries, boilerplate, etc is offered as discrete OSS
       | repositories.
       | 
       | This isn't too fancy - quite commonly corps and startups alike
       | offer some generic libraries. One can take that pattern to
       | greater degrees.
       | 
       | This allows to scratch the itch of sharing something with the
       | community, while still guaranteeing a livelihood.
       | 
       | Of course, it's mostly an incompatible approach for those
       | favoring a _strict_ monorepo- and microservice-based
       | architecture.
        
         | mooreds wrote:
         | We do this with a lot of our stuff at my current employer. It's
         | a good compromise in my experience.
        
         | mattbuilds wrote:
         | I have a similar plan with my current project [0] of
         | interactive coding docs. The library to build the docs would be
         | OSS. So anyone could build it and use it in their projects, But
         | the business of hosting courses, payment, an advanced UI for
         | building the docs would all be a SaaS. I think it's a nice
         | balance that gives you the best of both worlds.
         | 
         | [0] https://devbyexample.com
        
         | zomglings wrote:
         | git submodules, despite their warts, do help incorporate a
         | bunch of distinct code bases into a monorepo.
        
           | vemv wrote:
           | That might be also considered a multirepo in disguise :)
        
             | zomglings wrote:
             | Haha - you are right, and it is why git submodules have
             | warts. One thing I will say for them - at least you know
             | explicitly which commits of your dependencies you are
             | using.
        
         | marvinblum wrote:
         | Agreed. If it's something that has no business value in itself
         | and can be adopted by others (which might contribute in
         | return), open-source it. There are also half-open/open-core
         | models, see my comment below.
        
       | Jaygles wrote:
       | I don't think the author made a compelling argument as to why
       | open-sourcing his code led to the problems he describes. It
       | sounds like having the code open sourced took too much of his
       | time away since it allowed people to make requests for things.
       | But I don't see why that means he necessarily has to take time to
       | fulfill the requests.
       | 
       | Sounds like he was too focused in one area of his project, and
       | needed to take a step back to get a broader view of the state of
       | things. I'm not convinced the closed/open source nature of his
       | code is responsible for that.
        
         | mooreds wrote:
         | I think his point was that folks who participate in open source
         | have higher demands for changes and support. If a business is
         | pure SaaS only with no open source code behind it, there is
         | less interaction in general. I'm sure there's still support
         | tickets and whatnot, but there's not the same level of "please
         | fix this" requests. People just move on from commercial
         | packages if they don't do what they need, in my experience.
         | 
         | From the post:
         | 
         | > In the past, when it came to running a business as a solo-
         | founder, having it open source created too much maintenance
         | burden for very specific feature requests. In particular from
         | non-paying users, who sometimes sent me emails directly,
         | demanding I look at their issue, or help them fix things "as
         | soon as possible".
         | 
         | This lack of interaction is both a feature (lets you focus, you
         | have time to take care of paying users) and a bug (less
         | interaction means you could build the wrong thing, the source
         | is no longer a marketing mechanism for you).
        
           | Jaygles wrote:
           | Right, I agree with you, but as I said
           | 
           | > It sounds like having the code open sourced took too much
           | of his time away since it allowed people to make requests for
           | things. But I don't see why that means he necessarily has to
           | take time to fulfill the requests.
           | 
           | The existence of the interactions doesn't necessitate
           | engaging with them. If engaging with interactions is taking
           | too much time away, one could simply, not engage with them.
        
             | mooreds wrote:
             | > The existence of the interactions doesn't necessitate
             | engaging with them. If engaging with interactions is taking
             | too much time away, one could simply, not engage with them.
             | 
             | Sure, I get it, everyone needs to prioritize. But if you
             | are ignoring interactions on your OSS project, you can
             | expect more, oh, I'll call it 'heat'. I have seen those
             | github issue threads, where people get frustrated because
             | someone hasn't engaged.
             | 
             | So if you aren't going to engage, why open source it? Sure,
             | there are other reasons, but the community feedback loop is
             | a crucial part of the value of OSS for building a business.
             | 
             | Also, I get there's nuance and you can choose to engage
             | when there's been a certain level of commitment from the
             | community (a number of upvotes is what my current company
             | uses to help prioritize efforts), but for a solo founder it
             | can be really hard to prioritize, and the author apparently
             | found all the requests a distraction. His choice, but I
             | sympathize.
        
               | sodality2 wrote:
               | >So if you aren't going to engage, why open source it?
               | 
               | I'd argue engagement is only a medium part of open
               | source: plenty of projects publish code and never accept
               | requests/issues, and are very popular. It is always nice
               | to open source even if you don't accept PR's/review
               | issues, because it gives me more trust.
        
               | mooreds wrote:
               | So the main benefit of OSS you see is promoting trust in
               | the company building the open source software?
               | 
               | I'm sure there are plenty of blog posts out there, but I
               | can see the following benefits:                  *
               | marketing halo ("we do open source")        * community
               | feedback, both bugs and features        * community
               | contributions        * trust in the company        *
               | trust in continuity of the product (even if the company
               | fails, I can continue to run this product)        * cost
               | 
               | As I said, I'm sure there are more, I'm not experienced
               | enough to weigh them all, and I'm guessing they vary
               | based on the size, stage and goals of the company. That
               | said, feedback from the community does seem pretty
               | important to me.
        
               | pwdisswordfish0 wrote:
               | You're conflating open source software, which is any
               | software published under an OSS license, with an open
               | development model. (Not to mention the assumption that
               | "open source" automatically means publishing to GitHub--
               | it doesn't.)
               | 
               | Apple, for example, publishes a ton of stuff over at
               | opensource.apple.com. But the majority of it is stuff
               | thrown over the wall, and not attached to a community
               | that has to be actively managed.
               | 
               | The insistence on confusing these things for other people
               | is perhaps one of the biggest threats to open source.
        
               | mooreds wrote:
               | Fair. Would you say that the author of the post was
               | speaking about the issues with an open development model?
               | 
               | That's a great distinction as there are companies out
               | there doing open development who may have a closed source
               | product.
        
               | yw3410 wrote:
               | Yes; but you have to remember that git forges like GitHub
               | and Gitlab push you towards that the open development
               | model with their defaults.
        
               | Jaygles wrote:
               | There's certainly value in engaging with the community
               | through the open sourced code. In the end its all a
               | balancing act and getting it right is the hard part. I'm
               | not trying to claim to know how much effort should be
               | going in each aspect. If I did, I'd be running a
               | successful business right about now.
        
               | bachmeier wrote:
               | > Sure, I get it, everyone needs to prioritize. But if
               | you are ignoring interactions on your OSS project, you
               | can expect more, oh, I'll call it 'heat'. I have seen
               | those github issue threads, where people get frustrated
               | because someone hasn't engaged.
               | 
               | Companies selling non-OSS products get slammed with
               | requests on a large scale and they have to deal with them
               | somehow. Todoist immediately comes to mind. I mean, sure,
               | it's possible that some users of a paid product will
               | conclude you don't know what you're doing and take their
               | business elsewhere, but that's kind of like boasting
               | about fixing your broken finger by cutting off your arm.
        
               | brobdingnagians wrote:
               | I think the key thing is whether the people making the
               | feature requests are paying you. We get feature requests
               | all the time, but they are the people paying us thousands
               | of dollars, so those take priority. If they aren't, or it
               | doesn't appear that anyone else paying us will use it,
               | then they shouldn't take priority. This is a way of
               | whittling down what is really valuable to people, rather
               | than just they took long enough to write an email about a
               | cool thing they really think you should do.
        
             | evanelias wrote:
             | This makes sense for feature requests, but not always for
             | other types of support.
             | 
             | When a user opens an issue, sometimes it can be very time-
             | consuming just to determine whether the user is
             | encountering a legitimate edge-case bug, vs the user doing
             | something wrong and not reporting it accurately. This type
             | of issue can't be ignored entirely, because if it's a legit
             | bug, then it's present in the paid SaaS product as well.
             | 
             | Also consider that many GitHub accounts don't mention real
             | names or company affiliations. It can be hard to tell
             | whether an issue submitter is some rando or a loyal paying
             | customer. Even if you have a separate bug tracker or
             | support system for paying customers, some of them will
             | submit issues to the open source project by mistake.
        
               | musingsole wrote:
               | Given the response times to bugs by paid teams compelled
               | on threat of terminated employment to implement fixes for
               | things...an open source maintainer absolutely could
               | ignore even critical bugs.
               | 
               | I've seen many maintainers whinging about the demands of
               | communities on their time. But it's all 'choose-your-
               | level-of-involvement'. Those people clamoring for
               | attention may be annoyed and frustrated with you, but
               | that doesn't answer the question as to why that's a
               | problem unless you choose for it to be.
        
               | evanelias wrote:
               | > an open source maintainer absolutely could ignore even
               | critical bugs
               | 
               | If the maintainer is a solopreneur, whose source of
               | income is a paid SaaS version of the open source project,
               | then no they typically cannot ignore critical bugs.
               | 
               | > Those people clamoring for attention may be annoyed and
               | frustrated with you, but that doesn't answer the question
               | as to why that's a problem unless you choose for it to
               | be.
               | 
               | Out of curiosity have you ever maintained a decently
               | popular single-primary-maintainer open source project?
               | How about one with a SaaS or commercial version?
               | 
               | Frequent frustrating interactions with users isn't
               | exactly beneficial to one's sense of motivation, at least
               | in my experience (which mirrors the original article
               | quite closely).
        
               | musingsole wrote:
               | Commercial products ignore critical bugs all the time. A
               | bug being an impact to income is a relative thing for
               | everyone, corporations to sole proprietors. As is
               | response to your customers/community. Not everyone needs
               | or at all provides stellar customer service.
               | 
               | Maintainers may have a degree of involvement necessitated
               | by their business needs. However, the loudest people
               | screaming for support are very rarely even the same niche
               | as those funding a project. So ignore the whining; listen
               | to the constructive bits if they're there. Delete
               | messages en masse and move on with your life.
        
               | evanelias wrote:
               | In my field (database automation) I do not ignore bug
               | reports, ever. Critical bugs can mean data loss and
               | severe reputational harm.
               | 
               | YMMV. We can agree to disagree.
        
               | musingsole wrote:
               | Because in your specific niche of software you can't
               | imagine letting a bug report hang for a day...you're
               | incapable of understanding that that is not the case for
               | 99% of software? You're unaware of bug tickets wallowing
               | in backlogs for days to years?
        
               | evanelias wrote:
               | I have said nothing about what I can or cannot imagine or
               | understand. I specifically said YMMV to indicate that I
               | acknowledge experiences will differ across fields.
               | 
               | I find your tone to be uncivil and I do not wish to
               | continue this discussion with you.
        
             | dwohnitmok wrote:
             | > If engaging with interactions is taking too much time
             | away, one could simply, not engage with them.
             | 
             | This choice isn't always as simple as it sounds. There is,
             | strange as it is, a real reputational risk to be known as a
             | disengaged open source maintainer.
             | 
             | It's a real PR risk to have a demanding open source user
             | who personally emails you then takes to Twitter to denounce
             | the project if you don't engage. It's also definitely a
             | risk for a paid, proprietary project too, but for some
             | reason it doesn't seem to happen as often.
        
               | Roark66 wrote:
               | >> If engaging with interactions is taking too much time
               | away, one could simply, not engage with them.
               | 
               | >This choice isn't always as simple as it sounds. There
               | is, strange as it is, a real reputational risk to be
               | known as a disengaged open source maintainer.
               | 
               | IMO there is middle ground. One can engage with a canned
               | response stating support for non paying customers is
               | provided on a "Best effort" basis and current high
               | commercial demand doesn't allow the maintainer to offer
               | as much time as she/he would like to for free...
               | 
               | Reasonable people will understand, perhaps some of them
               | will even convert to paying customers. Bad PR from
               | unreasonable people will happen regardless.
        
               | Jaygles wrote:
               | I agree, I just phrased it as a black and white thing as
               | a way of trying to make the point I was making more
               | clear. There's nuance in all things.
        
               | dwohnitmok wrote:
               | Sure, but then I think mooreds comment is a convincing
               | rebuttal of
               | 
               | > Sounds like he was too focused in one area of his
               | project, and needed to take a step back to get a broader
               | view of the state of things. I'm not convinced the
               | closed/open source nature of his code is responsible for
               | that.
               | 
               | It's not that the author was overly focused on one thing.
               | It was just that he didn't want to pay the cost.
        
               | Jaygles wrote:
               | That's fair, I was making some assumptions when making
               | that statement. Maybe a better point to make would be
               | that he was overly prioritizing one aspect over others.
        
               | dwohnitmok wrote:
               | > overly
               | 
               | Again I think this is an unfair characterization of the
               | author's point.
               | 
               | All that being said, I think your original point, that
               | you can have open source without engagement _and minimal
               | PR risk_ , is doable on reflection, you just need to
               | break away from the usual open source mould. So e.g. that
               | means not using GitHub, GitLab, Sourcehut, etc. to host
               | your code. Instead just provide a contact method that
               | customers can use to request code on demand such as an
               | email address or mailing address.
               | 
               | Minimize any other contact surface area and enforce
               | trademark heavily so that any users re-uploading the code
               | to other sites must change the name.
               | 
               | Basically make sure to hide the official open source
               | channel away from non-paying users.
               | 
               | At that point it's another interesting question whether
               | it's still worth it to the author to go open source
               | (since you're giving up most of the stated commercial
               | benefits of open source, especially those surrounding
               | reputation), but it's a way of minimizing the
               | reputational risk of non-engagement.
               | 
               | And of course sometimes you may judge the reputational
               | risk to be acceptable.
        
               | Jaygles wrote:
               | Well, in the author's own words...
               | 
               | > I was too focused on developing every feature, trying
               | to give support to every single ticket, and I completely
               | ignored the marketing aspects of it as I had no time for
               | it.
               | 
               | Saying the author was overly prioritizing responding to
               | the communications that open sourcing the code allowed to
               | come through shouldn't be controversial. He himself is
               | admitting to it.
               | 
               | My main point is that the author hasn't convinced me that
               | blame should be placed on open sourcing the code. To me
               | that's akin to blaming the messenger. He should instead
               | be looking to why he felt obligated to spend the time
               | supporting "every single ticket", when he himself knew
               | that he was neglecting other aspects of the business side
               | of things.
        
         | jandrewrogers wrote:
         | My experience is strongly aligned with the author's. There is a
         | substantial real-world overhead associated with open sourcing
         | code, all other things being equal. This overhead is imposed on
         | you whether you want it or not. If you are operating in a
         | resource constrained environment, like the author, then not
         | open sourcing is a sensible cost containment measure. Open
         | sourcing code is a luxury for those with ample time or money.
         | 
         | I have code I could open source (e.g. some very useful Postgres
         | extensions created for a company) but I value my time more, and
         | I know many others that view the calculus similarly. There is
         | value in open sourcing code but we should be honest about the
         | associated costs and not pretend they don't exist.
        
           | mixmastamyk wrote:
           | I'd tend to agree for a small package. But, this was a
           | company with a community (according to author). Pointing
           | requests to the paid support page would turn lemons into
           | lemonade. We can only speculate why this didn't happen.
        
         | serial_dev wrote:
         | Exactly, I think people misunderstand what open source means.
         | 
         | Open source doesn't mean that you need to provide hours of free
         | support to someone who couldn't even bother to write a proper
         | issue description. For a matter of fact, you don't even need to
         | provide free support to anyone, no matter how nice they are and
         | no matter how well they written the issue You can help them,
         | but you don't have to.
         | 
         | You also don't need to accept pull requests: if you think that
         | the feature doesn't make sense or the code quality is terrible,
         | or it's just not important to you, you don't need to accept
         | pull requests.
         | 
         | You also don't need to bend over backwards to maintain a
         | stabile API.
         | 
         | It makes your life easier if you communicate this in the README
         | of the package, tell people that it's the early days of the
         | product, you develop in the open, but you aren't going to abide
         | by other people's unrealistic expectations about _your_ open
         | source work.
        
           | ipaddr wrote:
           | I find just throwing code into github is my perfect level of
           | open sourcing. It's public and I can pull the code into any
           | project.
           | 
           | No pesky user requests or stars.
           | 
           | Accepting pull requests on smaller projects seems strange. If
           | I wrote this why do I want someone else sharing credit.
        
           | Qwertious wrote:
           | >Exactly, I think people misunderstand what open source
           | means.
           | 
           | "Misunderstand" implies there's some authoritative definition
           | on "open source" means here. I remember people considering
           | Dasura "not open source" even though it was GPLv2, simply
           | because they didn't accept patches and only threw code over
           | the wall.
           | 
           | To a lot of people, open source means engaging on Github. You
           | can say "they're wrong", but that's just disagreement.
        
         | j_san wrote:
         | While it's technically not open-sourcing code itself it's human
         | nature in my opinion. As a founder you want to support and
         | don't upset your customers, even if they are using the free
         | version of your product. Yes, you could simply not fulfill
         | these requests or not help these customers, but I think for
         | most people it will still introduce stress. There may be people
         | who can deal easily with this, but I think it's natural to be
         | stressed by this and run after things that you shouldn't.
         | 
         | Still I agree that it's probably possible to open-source
         | without these problems and that this is not a complete
         | compelling argument for every case. For me personally at least
         | not open-sourcing at the beginning (like the author did) would
         | probably be preferred as well for a solo-founded project.
        
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