[HN Gopher] Amazon Assistant lets Amazon track your every move o...
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       Amazon Assistant lets Amazon track your every move on the web
        
       Author : staktrace
       Score  : 92 points
       Date   : 2021-03-08 13:06 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (palant.info)
 (TXT) w3m dump (palant.info)
        
       | drewda wrote:
       | Wasn't this the shtick of the "toolbar" plugins offered by AOL,
       | Yahoo, and even Google at one point over the years?
        
         | space_ghost wrote:
         | My first thought was BonziBuddy: a free "assistant" program
         | that was monetized by capturing and selling your personal data
         | and displaying ads directly.
        
       | KoftaBob wrote:
       | "Still, I was astonished to discover that Amazon built the
       | perfect machinery to let them track any Amazon Assistant user or
       | all of them: what they view and for how long, what they search on
       | the web, what accounts they are logged into and more.
       | 
       | Amazon could also mess with the web experience at will and for
       | example hijack competitors' web shops. Amazon Assistant log with
       | a borg eye Image credits: Amazon, nicubunu, OpenClipart
       | 
       | Mind you, I'm not saying that Amazon is currently doing any of
       | this."
       | 
       | This goes for any browser extension you install if you don't
       | limit which websites it's allowed to read data from.
       | 
       | In both the title and beginning paragraph, the author essentially
       | describes the privacy risks that would apply to any browser
       | extension, but words it in a way that implies Amazon is actively
       | abusing those privacy holes, before finding any evidence for it.
       | 
       | I really wish people would stop giving views to blatantly
       | manipulative and slimy clickbait like this.
        
         | tantalor wrote:
         | > before finding any evidence for it
         | 
         | Did you see the screenshot with the Amazon ad popup obscuring
         | Google ads?
        
           | palant wrote:
           | That's actually legitimate functionality of this extension.
           | :-)
           | 
           | Note: I am the author of this article.
        
             | tantalor wrote:
             | Covering up your competitors ads with your own sounds a lot
             | like "mess with the web experience at will and for example
             | hijack competitors' web shops".
             | 
             | Disclaimer: I work for Google Shopping, but not the ads
             | part :)
        
               | palant wrote:
               | The whole extension is all about "let's see when
               | customers go to competition and try to bring them back."
               | That's rather shady but it's exactly the advertised
               | functionality. And I've already got the first comment on
               | the blog essentially saying "I don't care what else they
               | do, this extension gives great suggestions and I love
               | that." :-)
        
         | palant wrote:
         | You could also read the article before commenting. It's one
         | thing when an extension could do something but its code can be
         | inspected to verify that it doesn't. It's an entirely different
         | thing if it delegates its privileges to a web service that
         | could do anything and that nobody can inspect.
         | 
         | Note: I'm the author of this article.
        
           | KoftaBob wrote:
           | I stand corrected, I must not have read the article carefully
           | enough my apologies!
        
         | scubazealous wrote:
         | This is a greater issue with the extension/app ecosystem.
         | 
         | This morning I wanted to find a android app which would help me
         | time exercises, specifically planking.
         | 
         | It should be simple, set up countdown times for front and each
         | side with 5 second breaks in between, playing a tone to let me
         | know when I can move on or I am done with the exercise.
         | 
         | I looked through at least the top 20 apps on the play store and
         | all of them require at least full network access and to run at
         | startup. Many were so invasive as to request location and to be
         | able to record audio and take pictures.
         | 
         | Being able to monetize these apps is an important thing for
         | developers but it is becoming a real problem I do not see
         | getting any better soon.
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | Stronglifts has a nice app that I don't remember being overly
           | intrusive. I just wish it were easier to use for other
           | lifting programs.
        
       | antattack wrote:
       | Seems to me that browser extensions need better access control.
       | Why isn't it possible to restrict it to just amazon.com itself,
       | for example?
        
         | spideymans wrote:
         | Browser extensions being enabled for all webpages by default is
         | bad practice for security and privacy. Often the user only
         | wants to use the extension on _specific_ webpages. For example,
         | if I have a video downloader extension, chances are that I only
         | want to use that extension on the page with the specific video
         | I want to download.
         | 
         | Extensions should be disabled by default upon install. If the
         | user wants to use the extension, the user should be able to
         | click on the extension to active it for this specific page for
         | one time only. None of the major browsers are capable of this
         | (so far as I'm aware), so I always have to remember to disable
         | an extension when I'm done using it.
        
         | navanchauhan wrote:
         | I'm not familiar with Chrome/Firefox extensions, but for Safari
         | Web Extensions you can indeed restrict extensions. [0]
         | 
         | Edit: Looks like this feature is present in Chrome/Firefox
         | extensions as well but for all these platforms (Safari included
         | I think), this needs to be implemented in the code itself[1]
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safariservices/saf...
         | 
         | [1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10504239/limit-chrome-
         | ex...
        
           | fosefx wrote:
           | It's at the core of the WebExtensions APIs permissions
           | system:
           | 
           | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Add-
           | ons/Web...
           | 
           | WE are implemented both by Chromium and Firefox (with
           | nuances)
        
         | palant wrote:
         | Most of its functionality is meant to work on other websites.
         | There is probably little reason to install it for amazon.com
         | only.
         | 
         | Note: I'm the author of this article.
        
       | pkaye wrote:
       | The assistant should play the tune of "Every Breath You Take" by
       | The Police when its doing this.
        
       | kevinsundar wrote:
       | This is clickbait. The authors argument is that the extension has
       | enough privileges to track you, not that it actually does.
       | 
       | For example, uBlock Origin has similar privileges but I doubt the
       | author would bat an eye.
       | 
       | EDIT: I take back my comment :)
        
         | ziddoap wrote:
         | Not only did you miss the point of the article, you must have
         | missed where in these very comments the author replies to
         | someone else who just barely skimmed the article.
         | 
         | I will copy/paste it for you.
         | 
         | "You could also read the article before commenting. It's one
         | thing when an extension could do something but its code can be
         | inspected to verify that it doesn't. It's an entirely different
         | thing if it delegates its privileges to a web service that
         | could do anything and that nobody can inspect.
         | 
         | Note: I'm the author of this article. "
        
           | cronix wrote:
           | > It's an entirely different thing if it delegates its
           | privileges to a web service that could do anything and that
           | nobody can inspect.
           | 
           | Would it be more accurate then to say it _potentially_ lets
           | Amazon track you? Without the word  "potentially," or
           | similar, it makes it sound like they are in fact doing it
           | when you just said it "could."
        
             | ziddoap wrote:
             | To be clear, I'm not the author so I cannot answer on their
             | behalf.
             | 
             | In my opinion though, "could" is so close to "potentially"
             | in definition that it seems rather pedantic to hinge the
             | entire article and its conclusions on that single choice of
             | word.
        
             | palant wrote:
             | If Amazon does track some users of their extension right
             | now, we wouldn't know. It's a web service, nobody can tell
             | whether it behaves the same for everyone. It has all the
             | privileges, and I can look into what it does with these
             | privileges in _my_ case, but I cannot tell whether it works
             | the same for you.
             | 
             | Note: I am the author of this article.
        
           | kevinsundar wrote:
           | All right upon closer reading you are correct. I seem to have
           | missed the point of the article. There are some good points
           | that the author brings up.
           | 
           | However I still think the title could be better. There are
           | lots of things that applications "can" do. I put more trust
           | into random applications that run on my system.
        
             | palant wrote:
             | Yes, you put considerable trust into applications running
             | on your system. But I hope that you don't just install
             | random applications. You probably choose only vendors where
             | you can reasonably assume that they don't want to accept
             | the backlash of having shipped a malicious application.
             | 
             | Now shipping a malicious application is always a risk. This
             | application release is evidence of misbehavior, should
             | someone choose to analyze it. This risk is almost non-
             | existent with dynamic web applications. It would have to be
             | the one targeted user who analyzes megabytes of code.
             | 
             | To sum up: there is a good reason why websites are
             | sandboxed and don't get any access to your system.
             | 
             | Note: I am the author of this article.
        
       | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
       | > Putting these JavaScript files into the extension would have
       | been possible with almost no code changes
       | 
       | The AMO team at Firefox used to outright ban addons with remote
       | script injection. I guess it matters who you are -- like on the
       | Apple App Store, big names just need to pull the right strings or
       | call the right people for a free pass. Rules are not applied
       | equally. The playing field is NOT level.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-08 23:01 UTC)