[HN Gopher] The Black Tax
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The Black Tax
Author : andrewmd5
Score : 33 points
Date : 2021-03-07 12:53 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (andrew.im)
(TXT) w3m dump (andrew.im)
| snicker7 wrote:
| This post is basically an advert for the wealth tax.
| jasonhansel wrote:
| The Fed's statistics show just how big this disparity is:
|
| "In the 2019 survey, White families have the highest level of
| both median and mean family wealth: $188,200 and $983,400,
| respectively (Figure 1). Black and Hispanic families have
| considerably less wealth than White families. Black families'
| median and mean wealth is _less than 15 percent_ that of White
| families, at $24,100 and $142,500, respectively. "
|
| Source: https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-
| notes/disp...
| xyzzy4 wrote:
| Maybe the black tax is partly an IQ tax - black people on average
| have lower IQs according to every study on the matter. As
| unfortunate as that may be.
| flyinglizard wrote:
| Isn't the author just talking about a "poverty tax"? (I'm not an
| American so I'm not well versed on the cultural aspects here).
| gjm11 wrote:
| I think it's _slightly_ different. The "tax" is associated not
| so much with being poor oneself, as with having all one's
| friends and family also poor.
|
| Whether being black is a better predictor of that than being
| poor, I don't know, but I can imagine how it might be.
|
| (The author may also be suggesting -- it's not 100% clear --
| that part of the "tax" is a cultural difference where black
| people are more likely than white people to feel responsible
| for supporting their friends and family who are poor.)
| jacknews wrote:
| I don't see why race would affect this. If you're poor, from
| a poor background, it's likely your friends are also poor,
| regardless of race.
|
| The only race argument IMHO is 'are poor people more likely
| to be black'.
| xyzzy4 wrote:
| Poor Jews have risen to success in every country they've
| migrated to. Poor Blacks mostly have remained poor. I think
| it's mainly an IQ difference.
| gjm11 wrote:
| Well, poor people definitely _are_ more likely to be black,
| and black people are more likely to be poor. (In the US,
| which is the country OP is talking about, and in the UK,
| where I am, and in many other places, though maybe not
| everywhere.)
|
| Being black tends, for obvious reasons, to run in families.
| So race-associated poverty will do so too. Some other
| factors that tend to go along with poverty run in families,
| some not. There is some tendency for people to associate
| with others of the same race, and some tendency for people
| to associate with others of similar social class. It's not
| obvious to me whether being black is a better or a worse
| predictor of having poor friends and families than being
| poor is.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > I don't see why race would affect this.
|
| It does for lots of reasons.
|
| > If you're poor, from a poor background, it's likely your
| friends are also poor, regardless of race.
|
| If your even modestly successful and black from a poor
| background, it is more likely that you are the _most_
| successful person at a given network distance from people
| in your network than if you are equally successful and from
| an equally poor background but white. This is largely an
| effect of past racism.
|
| But it's also less likely that people in your network can
| work their way up without your help. And that's largely a
| product of current racism, both of the institutional and
| the more direct, active, personal kind. (Also past racism,
| too.)
| lgleason wrote:
| They are, but in recent years the wealthy have ginned up the
| race wars to get everybody fighting and distract from the real
| issue of income disparity which continues to get wider in the
| US.
| Bluestein wrote:
| "For many Black people who have found success, the idea of
| 'personal wealth' doesn't exist because to have wealth is to
| share it. Their money isn't just theirs; it's their mom's rent,
| their sisters used car, food on the table of a struggling family
| member, Christmas gifts under the tree. For every dollar earned,
| you don't value it based on what it can get you, but how far it
| can go for others."
|
| An entirely different paradigm ...
| whiddershins wrote:
| This is not uncommon for poor people the world over, including
| poor white people in the US.
| epx wrote:
| Not exactly a pure Black problem, being dragged down by family
| money problems is very common in poor and lower middle class. At
| least in my culture (Brazil). Family freeloaders are more
| difficult to spot because things are generally hard, so the
| support network ends up being spread thin. One must to learn to
| be tough, and live with the reputation, if they wants to
| accumulate some wealth.
| simtel20 wrote:
| Yes, this resonates. I am living in Brazil, but have fewer
| direct relatives because I am not brazilian, and my wife is.
|
| We buy a couple of dozen cestas basicas and give them away to a
| friend to feed families in a neighborhood nearby. We are paying
| for college and school for a handful of friends (father won't
| buy food for his kids but will drop off food for the dog in his
| new Jeep) and family - so many people are constantly hustling
| and churning through jobs.
|
| At the current exchange rate with our apartment and school,
| this help costs less than my rent in nyc did, and it's
| ridiculous how little help there is here from institutions in
| the midst of a pandemic.
| theflork wrote:
| Victim mentality on full display.
| lgleason wrote:
| What the author described is the difference between coming from a
| rich family and a poor one. There are many poor people of many
| ethnicities that face the same exact problem.
| [deleted]
| simplecto wrote:
| That is not a uniquely black experience.
|
| You could remove race from the whole thing and the same would be
| true for anyone coming from the same economic starting point.
|
| This is not a black tax. All those struggles are the same
| regardless of race.
| andrewmd5 wrote:
| Author here. This comment section is almost self-aware, which
| is nice to see. While it's nice to believe everyone would have
| the same struggles from the same economic starting point, the
| reality is that as a poor white person it is much easier to
| find your way out of poverty.
|
| You'll have more job opportunities presented to you, more
| people willing to take risk. Of course it also helps not to
| have hundreds of years to systemic racism on your next as well
| which allows other members of your family to likely not be poor
| -- thus able to support you.
|
| You can't erase race because you don't understand it and it
| makes you uncomfortable to acknowledge that being white has its
| benefits. That's why the American Dream is so far out of reach
| to many: https://andrew.im/essays/a-journey-to-the-american-
| dream
| whiddershins wrote:
| These are assertions. And they aren't balanced, and they
| aren't back up with citations.
|
| This comment ignores large scale affirmative action programs
| in education and in large corporations. How do you know for
| sure there are in fact less opportunities for one group or
| another?
|
| The way opportunity plays out for various people is
| fantastically complex, how do you know you've figured it out
| to a degree that is useful for creating change?
| whearyou wrote:
| "This comment section is almost self-aware" can you expand on
| what you mean by that?
| caffeine wrote:
| It is terminology from Critical Race Theory, which is an
| ideology whose basic premise is that all white people,
| irrespective of their actual behavior or beliefs,
| perpetrate racism against everyone else.
|
| "Self-aware" refers to white people who realize they are
| racist.
|
| (Yes, I'm aware this all sounds crazy.. welcome to a brave
| new world.)
| 1996 wrote:
| > the reality is that as a poor white person it is much
| easier to find your way out of poverty.
|
| You misunderstand. The comments are not about race, but the
| individual decision that's always available to you, to break
| away from a losing game.
|
| Likewise, I was dragged down by my family who defined what I
| should aspire to (ex: being a doctor or a professor or a
| lawyer while I liked computers) and what I should do (ex:
| give them money to help them). I tried to do what I was told
| and realized it caused failure.
|
| > which allows other members of your family to likely not be
| poor -- thus able to support you.
|
| After noticing and analyzing the pattern of failure in my
| family, I decided it would stop with me - by disassociating
| from them.
|
| From your post:
|
| > That is why it should come as no surprise that so few Black
| people have successfully built generational wealth: we're
| always actively trying to keep the current generation alive
|
| That's your mistake.
|
| Eventually, I decided "screw them, I don't give a flying fuck
| even if they starve to death" -best decision of my life!
|
| Yes, it involved a lot of risk, as I knew they would never
| help me again in return, but being in the US it was almost a
| given I would never return.
|
| Now I'm a young retiree.
|
| I was asked money- more than once, especially after they knew
| I had made it. I told them in very clear term I'd rather burn
| my money and become a bum than give them a single dollar.
| That stopped the claims :)
|
| > That's why the American Dream is so far out of reach to
| many: https://andrew.im/essays/a-journey-to-the-american-
| dream
|
| You're so wrong. The American Dream is out of reach because
| selfishness is unfortunately not taught. We give people wrong
| values (help your friends, support your family etc) and act
| all surprised they fail in life.
|
| It's a honest mistake to make- the same as having kids in the
| hope they will help you in the future (they might) while they
| will certainly cost you in the present and the future (they
| sure will)
| simplecto wrote:
| Unfortunately this entire topic leads to Balkanization.
|
| While I acknowledge your point of view and opinion, I do not
| agree with your premise. Racism is not as important as the
| current political discourse would have us believe.
|
| I leave these topics of race to comedians who bring so much
| needed levity. Theo Von
|
| https://youtu.be/MvzwmoZaNHQ
| _nothing wrote:
| It's clear (at least to me) that due to the history of
| systemic racism against them as well as the circumstances
| under which they came to live on this continent, many Black
| Americans are at a tangible disadvantage compared to most
| other groups in the US, especially White people. So I
| certainly believe in what you would call a Black Tax.
|
| However, it does seem to me like the specific things you
| speak about in this essay could be considered to be more of a
| Poor Tax, which disproportionately affects Black Americans
| more than White People, due to the factors above. But taking
| just this specific essay, one could replace every instance of
| the word "Black" with "immigrant" or "Latino" or "Native
| American", etc, and it would be just as true.
|
| Again, not to take away from the main point that Black people
| have it harder than many other races in the Americas (and
| some other places). But as an immigrant to the US, from a
| family that sends streams of money and goods to support our
| family members back home, it's nearly impossible not to think
| "hold on, this isn't an exclusively Black experience" when
| reading this essay.
| paulryanrogers wrote:
| Certainly poverty impacts everyone negatively. Yet as a white
| guy in a mixed race relationship it seems obvious that at least
| in the Midwest US having dark skin is life in hard mode.
|
| Around here at least almost everyone in positions of power are
| old white men. And some white employees gossip among each other
| about the incompetence of black superiors. (Though in their
| defense some have praised those black coworkers they've seen
| working hard for themselves.)
|
| Different regions probably have different dynamics. Yet all the
| stats I've read about imply skin tone is a huge filter for
| opportunity in life.
| jc01480 wrote:
| It's like someone just discovered life is hard and twisted it
| with a race factor. I honestly don't intend for this to sound
| mean, but it's probably unavoidable in modern society.
| theklr wrote:
| Unfortunately the author oversimplified their argument. There
| could be a case for the "black tax" as a form of reparations, but
| never even discusses the long history of the government thwarting
| any gains black people attempted over the years. Such a shame.
| gjm11 wrote:
| The author's argument doesn't say anything about (or anything
| about anything _like_ ) 'the "black tax" as a form of
| reparations'. The "black tax" of the title isn't a literal tax,
| but the extra costs the author finds associated with being poor
| and having friends and family who are also poor: it's difficult
| for them to support you if you need to raise money, and if you
| get money you need to use some of it to support them.
| theklr wrote:
| That's what makes me disappointed. "The Case for Reparations"
| from Ta-Nehisi Coates digs into this and how American
| government has been active in keeping that a
| multigenerational issue in black communities in particular.
| jacknews wrote:
| I don't agree with the race argument here, it's simply a case
| that elevating yourself from a poor background is much harder
| than from a rich background.
|
| On the other hand people measure success relative to those around
| them. In that sense, being poor gives you a 'success dividend'.
|
| It's relatively easier to feel successful, satisfied, and enjoy
| other people's admiration when they are all poor, and you've
| achieved mediocre wealth.
|
| Whereas with a rich start, you need to become a unicorn to feel
| the same adulation.
|
| Perhaps this 'early satiation' also drives the statistics.
| paulryanrogers wrote:
| Once my SO started teaching in black neighborhoods I finally
| saw the systemic racism beyond the usual poverty issues common
| to all races. It's the subconscious racism in the culture that
| treats those with darker skin as different, often bucketed by
| negative stereotypes. Those kids faced it everyday and
| everywhere they lived, studied, worked. And their
| interconnected family-first culture was sometimes both a
| blessing and a curse, depending on ones birth lottery. This was
| different than the experience of the latinos and poor whites I
| have known.
|
| Human nature is tribal, and we can't know large numbers of
| people very well. That leads to mental shortcuts that don't
| work as well in our interconnected, multicultural societies.
| And many poor cultures are seen as havinh "pulled themselves up
| by their bootstraps" in the US. Never mind that their light
| skin meant they could blend in by just dropping an accent and
| changing clothes.
|
| Regardless, by working closely together and keeping an open
| mind we can overcome unintentional assumptions.
| caffeine wrote:
| Can you give a specific example? I always hear about this
| systemic racism, but I don't really know what that means.
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