[HN Gopher] How do you fund that game prototype?
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       How do you fund that game prototype?
        
       Author : polm23
       Score  : 51 points
       Date   : 2021-03-06 08:56 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (gamediscoverability.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (gamediscoverability.substack.com)
        
       | yetihehe wrote:
       | TL;DR: by having some free time, saved up funds (or "lottery"
       | like kickstarter) and then just doing it.
       | 
       | It's like with prototypes in any other area. You have idea, you
       | either convince someone that it's good (typically with alredy
       | working prototype, which precludes funding for prototypes) or use
       | your own time/funds. I wish there could be other way. Maybe
       | someday UBI will give us that.
        
         | omniscient_oce wrote:
         | and be a white man apparently
        
           | puddingnomeat wrote:
           | what is that supposed to mean?
        
             | pmichaud wrote:
             | Read the article, it weirdly shoehorns the "white male"
             | thing in there between "we used savings when possible and
             | worked 75 hour weeks until we had something to show."
        
               | angrais wrote:
               | How does that quote relate to being white??
               | 
               | Are you implying that non-white or female people can't
               | save money and prototype an idea? I'm lost.
        
               | omniscient_oce wrote:
               | Did you read the article? It quotes a Twitter
               | conversation where a user asks for specifically white
               | male experiences about creating a game studio /
               | prototype. In general the answers basically amount to "I
               | worked extremely hard, like 75hr weeks. Worked full time
               | job whilst doing it; took multiple years before things
               | started to work out" and then the article again tries to
               | shoehorn the white male narrative to invalidate the
               | answers. "other job / parents covering tuition / lack of
               | dependents to support" are hardly exclusive to one gender
               | or skin colour.
        
               | imnotjames wrote:
               | The article starts off by saying they want to poll white
               | men, because marginalized developers are struggling.
               | 
               | It includes quotes from people such as this:
               | 
               | > I think most local white dudes > don't think of a
               | prototype as something they "funded". They > "just made
               | it" because they had > time, space and hardware.
               | 
               | Generally, refers to hidden privilege throughout as
               | subtext. If you're white and male you have more access to
               | these kinds of opportunities, etc.
        
               | Danieru wrote:
               | > kinds of opportunities
               | 
               | The irony of course being "working for free on personal
               | project after work" is not an opportunity.
               | 
               | No doubt I am the exact class of "white dude" the article
               | is talking about. My "funding" story is super boring. I
               | worked on my game after a full day of work and after
               | getting kids to bed.
               | 
               | Spend savings from day job on commissioned art to make
               | the game pretty, after a couple years you should have a
               | game worth players time. If "having job" counts as
               | privilege then sure it requires privilege, to the exact
               | extent paying rent does too.
               | 
               | PS: Occasionally commenters say "I program all day and
               | have no energy to program at home". To which I can only
               | warn: games programming is not what you want.
        
         | faeyanpiraat wrote:
         | It might be controversial, but are you sure the current way is
         | wrong?
         | 
         | If you did not have to consider financial viability of a
         | project, then more people would make more random stuff, which
         | of course would produce more useful stuff, because the sample
         | size increases, but there would also be more useless garbage.
         | 
         | The question is whether and in what direction/magnitude the
         | signal to noise ratio would change in the UBI scenario.
        
           | yetihehe wrote:
           | > It might be controversial, but are you sure the current way
           | is wrong?
           | 
           | No, current way is the most optimal I can think of in current
           | situation. There are better ways, but not widely
           | implementable currently.
           | 
           | As for more garbage - yes, there would be more noise, but
           | ALSO more signal (in my humble opinion). Signal in this case
           | is useful things, which would be multiplied by usability,
           | which is a net win for me.
        
       | tubularhells wrote:
       | These privilege bashing articles are really cringe. At what point
       | do we call this sexism/racism?
        
         | tobr wrote:
         | "Privilege bashing"? Christ, how can it be "bashing" to have a
         | candid discussion about why some people are able to turn their
         | passions into a business, while others can't? Your reasoning is
         | dangerously close to "the real racism is suggesting that racism
         | would ever be a factor in anything".
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | Because more often than not it misses the mark - heavily at
           | that.
           | 
           | The article mentions skin tone, but doesn't go too deep into
           | why that might influence things - just assumes that this is
           | the case.
           | 
           | Meanwhile, as an eastern European, I see typical examples of
           | how _social class_ influences one 's options.
           | 
           | To clarify my point: we're predominantly white over here and
           | yet experience the same kind of problems, which leads me to
           | think that it's probably not skin tone, over which Americans
           | left and right seem to be so fixated, but other things.
           | 
           | Yes, there's racism - that's abundantly clear. But there's
           | also poverty, inequality and an associated lack of access to
           | education. Maybe we would have made more progress as a
           | species if we stopped focusing on easily identifiable
           | features?
        
             | Viliam1234 wrote:
             | Same here, white male from Eastern Europe, if someone has a
             | recipe how to make other people give me lots of money in
             | return for a hope that in a few years I will produce a
             | great computer game... please tell me. Because I would love
             | writing my own game, instead of developing boring
             | applications.
             | 
             | Reading all these texts about whiteness and maleness, I
             | suspect an important step in the process is sending someone
             | a picture of a white penis. Okay, I have a picture, but no
             | idea where to send it. Should I just spam everyone and hope
             | for the best?
             | 
             | If we are talking about privileges, how about mentioning
             | the most relevant one: rich privilege? Oh I forgot, this
             | one probably does not exist. Too bad, because a rich person
             | could easily fund the game prototype, and maybe even pay
             | for favorable reviews.
        
             | jjj123 wrote:
             | Well in the US race is inextricably tied to class. We have
             | a long history of limiting the economic opportunities of
             | Black people that's led to a pretty extreme black/white
             | wealth gap.
             | 
             | So in the US at least, class issues are race issues.
        
               | Tade0 wrote:
               | Europe also has a long history of limiting economic
               | opportunities of black people - arguably much longer than
               | the US, and yet the situation isn't that dire over here.
               | 
               | Do you truly believe it's _just_ skin tone?
        
           | smoe wrote:
           | I agree with you, but in my opinion, articles like this could
           | generally do a better job separating between privilege and
           | the ridiculous amount of work and commitment it can take to
           | make it in art, especially as an independent.
           | 
           | Anecdotally, from the people I know making a living (so not
           | being rich, just at least getting by fully on their own) as
           | independents in music, sound design/engineering, illustration
           | and writing have one thing in common: A 10+ year grind behind
           | them working (either to earn money or practicing) 16 hour
           | days, over weekends, almost no vacations or going out,
           | investing everything in materials instead, living in tiny
           | apartments or with their parents, taking shitty day jobs to
           | earn enough to eat, etc.
           | 
           | Where the privilege comes in, is when due to ones
           | socioeconomic status they can't make the above sacrifices
           | even though they would have the necessary perseverance to get
           | through.
           | 
           | From my perspective, we definitely need to do better pretty
           | much globally in providing more equal opportunity within
           | societies. But even if this aspect wouldn't exist, people are
           | also just too naive about how much hard work is involved in
           | these types of careers no matter how passionate or talented
           | they think they are. For every one "white dude" that made it,
           | there are probably thousands that didn't, because they spent
           | most their free time playing video games and smoking weed but
           | are blaming it on something else.
        
         | angrais wrote:
         | Can you provide some examples from the article where sexism and
         | racism occurs? I'm not seeing it
        
           | xu_ituairo wrote:
           | Up to you whether you think this is racist, but the article
           | does invoke generalizations about race and gender through
           | this quote here:
           | 
           | > [To be honest] I think most local white dudes don't think
           | of a prototype as something they "funded". They "just made
           | it" because they had time, space and hardware. Did their
           | other job/parents covering tuition/lack of dependents to
           | support/etc allow that? Yeah, but they can't see how it
           | paid."
           | 
           | Personally, I imagine class or wealth has more to do with
           | being able to bootstrap a game than skin color. And I imagine
           | the barriers to entry have been lowering steeply.
        
             | admissionsguy wrote:
             | It's all about race, just look at all those white dudes
             | from Polish villages cranking out one prototype after
             | another, swimming in the vast oceans of opportunity.
             | Contrast that with the daily struggle any person of colour
             | must endure to survive in, say, Seattle. Unfathomable.
        
               | elefanten wrote:
               | This is an underrated comment. The blindingly American
               | framework in these discussions is in itself bigoted -- it
               | completely ignores countervailing evidence that comes
               | from adopting a global perspective.
        
             | ycombinete wrote:
             | For what it's worth, that quote is from Dislekcia. He is a
             | white developer from South Africa, where class/wealth is
             | still extremely correlated with race, due to obvious
             | historical reasons.
        
         | wtf_is_up wrote:
         | white man bad
        
       | sokoloff wrote:
       | Same way you fund any other 5-to-9 creative micro-business or
       | passion. If you're an unknown, no one is lining up to pay you to
       | develop a prototype of your game idea, any more than they would
       | if you were getting started in fine art or music.
       | 
       | How do other people fund their band practice or painting or
       | pottery passion? If you already have a computer and can program,
       | your prototype probably costs less money and time than what those
       | endeavors cost those artists.
        
       | mathgladiator wrote:
       | I'll provide my answer: work in high stress low supply work and
       | build capital. I've spent a decade in infrastructure. Beyond the
       | ego lift of working on big things, it's not fun work.
       | 
       | The good news is the grind is open to all skin colors! Slap that
       | pager on your hip and prepare for a rough night!
       | 
       | Once you have enough capital, you can leverage the market to
       | provide an infinite funding stream. PLUS, as a disciplined
       | engineer, you have the highest cost skill along with the ability
       | to not make mistakes.
       | 
       | The risk is that you may find yourself giving into avarice and
       | enjoying that high income stream from the enterprise market.
        
       | jimmySixDOF wrote:
       | It's a Chicken-or-the-Egg problem. You need talent and resources
       | to develop your Prototype but those talents and resources improve
       | dramatically if there is a Prototype to play with. Catch 22. The
       | Makers Dilemma. A microscale version of what Peter Thiel calls
       | "Zero to One" - as in getting from nothing now to something new.
       | The post is based on a great tweet thread full of inspiring
       | stories of grit and determination; but as far as starting up
       | anything in any person's garage anywhere, you may just as well be
       | saying that water is wet.
        
         | Danieru wrote:
         | > talent and resources to develop your Prototype
         | 
         | Developing the required talent and resources is best done
         | working a day job. Go work as a cog in a game making team,
         | they'll cover your weaknesses and build your strengths.
         | Attempting to make a game while also "making your skills" will
         | result all early work being vastly interior to later work.
         | 
         | If getting employment on a team is impossible that points to a
         | bigger issue: you need at least 1 skill to get hired but you
         | need 12+ skills to finish a game. Short of devs in locations
         | without studios, most developers should start their career
         | making portfolio pieces to get a job.
         | 
         | Too often people think of Indie dev as an intro into the
         | industry: but that is like starting a restaurant to "break
         | into" the food service industry.
        
           | Impossible wrote:
           | It's reasonable to expect someone who is new to the industry
           | to make a small game, so a better analogy might be expecting
           | someone to be a decent home cook before getting a good
           | service job. I agree though when you start talking about game
           | dev as a business. Although people start successful
           | businesses from cooking in their home, it's highly unlikely
           | that they'll get it off the ground, let alone be successful.
        
       | failrate wrote:
       | Self fund your prototype. Do not spend a lot of money on
       | programmers, designers, and artists. Time box your prototype. No
       | more than a year.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-07 23:03 UTC)