[HN Gopher] Ask HN: NFTs legit or mania?
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       Ask HN: NFTs legit or mania?
        
       There's a lot of buzz around NFTs (non-fungible tokens) lately:
       https://www.coindesk.com/what-are-nfts  Some uses cases like NBA
       Top Shot seems like they could have lasting value, essentially a
       digital version of trading cards backed by the official sports
       league: https://www.nbatopshot.com  Other uses cases like buying
       Jack Dorsey's first tweet for $2.5m seem a bit more like mania to
       me: https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/5/22316320/jack-dorsey-
       original-tweet-nft-cent-valuables  Do you agree or disagree? What
       are your thoughts on this space and it's future?
        
       Author : cloudking
       Score  : 14 points
       Date   : 2021-03-06 21:53 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
       | superbcarrot wrote:
       | People have been doing stuff like this for a long time - trading
       | cards, the kid who was selling pixels on a web page
       | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Million_Dollar_Homepage),
       | astronauts were taking items in their personal kits with the
       | intent to resell them later for high value etc.
       | 
       | I suppose that we'll see things like these get more weaponised as
       | people look for easy ways to make money. I'm not interested in
       | participating.
        
       | anm89 wrote:
       | Just like everything else in the crypto space, it is both.
       | 
       | This stuff isn't going to die out completely and the exact way
       | that people interact with it is going to develop over the next
       | years.
       | 
       | On the other hand it is very possible that current prices are a
       | mania although there is certainly some possibility, that in the
       | long term, current prices will prove to be good buys.
        
       | lf275 wrote:
       | Long-term, I think it's legit. A few big-name artists and other
       | popular figures (athletes, actors, etc.) will take advantage, and
       | use it as another income source. It's pretty convenient to
       | immediately get a large payday by selling a unique asset (think
       | of an autographed copy), while also being able to mass distribute
       | and sell it at scale. For example, most people don't know that
       | rookie cards for NBA players can go for well over a million
       | dollars. Same idea here, except it is hosted online and
       | cryptographically proven.
       | 
       | In the short-term, definite mania. Relatively unknown artists are
       | getting ridiculous amounts of money, several magnitudes more than
       | they get on the open market with a private commission, because
       | the supply of artists that are currently active in this market is
       | dwarfed by the number of rich crypto speculators that are
       | throwing money around, trying to make a profit.
        
       | bootyfarm wrote:
       | Regardless of the premise, anything that so needlessly worsens
       | the climate emergency by wantonly wasting energy isn't future
       | proof.
        
       | WheelsAtLarge wrote:
       | Mania for now but long term it will bring scarcity to the digital
       | realm something that's important to fully develop the digital
       | economy. Right now digital has been very profitable for a
       | relatively few since it takes lots of money to develop a product
       | but scarcity will let many more people make a living.
       | 
       | A simple example are artists. Artists have been mostly locked out
       | of making a good living with their digital works but NFTs will
       | fix that.
       | 
       | We will also start to see new forms of products that aren't
       | profitable now since there is no way to cover the costs to
       | develop them but with NFTs there is now a way to cover the costs.
       | 
       | I see the book market changing. Established authors will be able
       | to sell their books and not have to go through publishing houses.
       | They can sell them to the public and now the public will be able
       | to resell the book and gain some of the money back and the
       | original author can get some money too.
       | 
       | The future is very bright, as they say. There's finally a way to
       | monetize cyberspace for the everyman.
        
         | carmen_sandiego wrote:
         | I'm not sure I get it. If the art is digital, then copies can
         | be identical to the original (apart from the NFT), no? So why
         | would this model succeed over, say, a Patreon-like model where
         | many people get access to the product?
         | 
         | Even in the traditional sales model, I would think the typical
         | PED for digital goods means that selling multiple copies
         | provides more revenue than selling one copy for a higher price.
         | Most things aren't Once Upon a Time in Shaolin.
        
       | bredren wrote:
       | I recall a few different attempts to connect vehicle-title-like
       | rights to physical artwork using the bitcoin blockchain. One of
       | them was being worked on by a partner at a hedge fund that
       | invested in Gliph.
       | 
       | I also remember some startups attempting to assign music
       | licensing using possession of some secret connected to a public
       | ledger.
       | 
       | I had a family member refer a colleague who taught continuing
       | education courses for insurance agents ask for information so he
       | could speak to the potential future of insurance contracts being
       | done on-chain.
       | 
       | These are all examples from years ago, and included some form of
       | the key characteristics of NFTs as described in the article: non-
       | interoperable, indivisible, indestructible, verifiable.
       | 
       | NFTSs seem put an emphasis on the items they secure being purely
       | digital.
       | 
       | I don't see NFTs as a new idea but possibly consolidation of pre-
       | existing ideas into winning standards, (ERC-721 and ERC-1155
       | potentially), and perhaps generalized buzz around bitcoin and
       | crypto.
       | 
       | Consolidation to a standard, endorsement from perceived sources
       | of authority and a way for new people to still "get rich" in
       | crypto might elevate this to something that goes the distance.
       | 
       | But I'd expect a lot of folks to be burned in the meantime,
       | "investing" stimulus money on things that go to zero.
       | 
       | Anecdotally, when I was evaluating Clubhouse, one of the major
       | detractors of the service was how much emphasis the communities
       | put on scammy get-rich in real estate or other seedy business
       | ideas. There were a lot of groups on NFTs and that was a few
       | weeks ago.
       | 
       | I'm most interested in how digital assets created on the fly on
       | someone's phone can be quickly secured to allow fluidity in the
       | transfer of rights.
       | 
       | People are capturing more and more important events first hand.
       | However validating authenticity, ownership and authority to
       | license that content seems kinda messy right now.
       | 
       | I suspect NFTs could play a role in standardizing assertion of
       | rights over content, it doesn't have to be deliberately created
       | but rather by chance.
       | 
       | A more fluid market for opportunity-based "stringer" content is
       | teased at in Neil Stephenson's "gargoyles" of Snow Crash.
       | 
       | I don't know if NFTs will be the vehicle for this but something
       | like them will be, and whatever that system is will probably
       | consume these more shiny "assets" appearing so far.
        
       | doopy1 wrote:
       | I think it's both. IMO we are in a mania and this will ballon
       | before it comes back to reality. After that it will just become
       | "normal" and perhaps a de facto standard for "digital ownership".
       | The applications are broad, and I'm not sure of the lasting value
       | of individual "collectible" NFTs, but the world is on the cusp of
       | embracing what it means to "own" a non tangible good, and that's
       | really interesting.
       | 
       | Full disclosure: I do sell art as NFTs on one of the curated
       | platforms, and I do get to benefit from the current "mania", but
       | I'm not one of the big name artists, to me the whole NFT thing as
       | it pertains to art is more like patreon. It's a way for folks to
       | support artists they like and to have a (non physical) piece that
       | they can show for it at the end of the day.
        
       | astlouis44 wrote:
       | They represent true digital ownership for the first time ever.
       | Incredibly empowering for creators, I'm personally very bullish
       | on the overall category NFT's and think they're here to stay.
        
       | Geee wrote:
       | They're both legit and mania. Yes, you can cryptographically own
       | a token that represents the first tweet. Is it worth $2.5M? Not
       | really. Some rich kid is just showing off and wants to make news.
       | You could say that the value comes from the stupidity of it. Art
       | is not very easy to understand or value objectively.
       | 
       | NFTs may have real applications in enabling markets for
       | intellectual property like copyrights, patents, and what not. For
       | example, it would be possible to automatically stream money to
       | one or many NFT copyright holders from a decentralized Spotify.
       | It is also possible to tie NFT in smart contracts, so that the
       | owner is able to call special functions or change the state in
       | the contract. For example, if an ad spot on a website is
       | controlled by a NFT, the NFT owner would be able to change the
       | ad.
        
       | carmen_sandiego wrote:
       | I'm personally at the stage where it seems like such obvious
       | silliness that I feel like I must be missing something, and so I
       | avoid expressing this opinion anywhere that I might be held
       | accountable for it at some point in the future. But I still
       | suspect that I'm right, naturally.
       | 
       | Definitely interested to hear arguments to the contrary though.
        
         | awillen wrote:
         | Wow, only one comment on here and it's exactly how I feel, but
         | articulated better than I would've.
         | 
         | In a theoretical sense I can see how they'd be valuable -
         | limited supply and high demand and all that - but in practice
         | it just seems like the prices of some of these early ones are
         | too bonkers for it to be sustainable.
        
         | xpose2000 wrote:
         | yeah, this is either a bitcoin like scenario that the initial
         | boom is happening or we are a bunch of idiots that we thought
         | this was a good idea. At this point I have no idea. The amount
         | of money going around is eye opening
        
         | superbcarrot wrote:
         | I feel that way about so much of new technology that I'm
         | wondering whether I'm working in the wrong field or I've just
         | become a grumpy old man in my late 20s.
        
         | jka wrote:
         | Given that content creators retain copyright over work they
         | upload to platforms, that platforms explicitly provide that
         | guarantee, and that much of the current NFT craze is around
         | speculation on already-potentially-valuable digital content, I
         | agree.
         | 
         | One possibility that occurs is: for decentralized
         | infrastructure, where no organization can attest to the
         | identity of an original author, then it might make sense for
         | that author to 'claim' their content when they upload it (at
         | which time, for most authors, it would have zero value).
         | 
         | That could be a way for authors to retain and claim value for
         | their work over time, while also making a public copyright
         | claim.
         | 
         | That's all conjecture on my part; I don't really understand the
         | hype yet, either - or whether it will last.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-06 23:01 UTC)