[HN Gopher] WordStar: A Writer's Word Processor (1996)
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WordStar: A Writer's Word Processor (1996)
Author : Tomte
Score : 69 points
Date : 2021-03-06 20:24 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (sfwriter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (sfwriter.com)
| immigrantsheep wrote:
| Not long ago I stumbled upon this modern WordStar clone called
| WordTsar http://wordtsar.ca/
| shimonabi wrote:
| I remember using it as a child at the start of the 90's on a PC,
| when I was just learning to read.
|
| It was the prefered editor of William F. Buckley and famously
| GRRM still uses it. I tried it recently on a retro computer after
| decades and it is nothing to write home about.
|
| Does anyone know of a proper file converter to Word, that
| supports non-ANSI characters?
| kcartlidge wrote:
| I love the WordStar key combos, and still have some relevant
| muscle memory. Back in the day I learned them at about the same
| time as using Turbo Pascal 3 - which used a few of the same ones.
| ja27 wrote:
| Back around 2006, I did a crash project on IBM 4690 OS. At some
| point I got into the included editor and by the second time I
| hit control-K, it all started coming back to me.
|
| That project also had to use 16 bit small memory model which
| brought me back to the ancient Turbo Pascal / C days.
| every wrote:
| I never had much of a call for word processing but I do know that
| a good deal of the WordStar command-set and philosophy made it
| into a host of DOS text editors for several decades. And that in
| turn influenced the "easy and familiar" design of pine/pico/nano
| editors for *nix...
| wef wrote:
| While we're being nostalgic, VDE, a WordStar clone, was another
| miracle of tiny code. I still run it now and then in a DOSEMU
| emulator on Linux.
|
| https://www.sites.google.com/site/vdeeditor/Home
| zabzonk wrote:
| WordStar was actually also a pretty good programming editor - I
| used it on Z80 CP/M and 8088 IBM systems for programming.
|
| On the Z80, I actually had to write small assembly language
| routines to read the keyboard and write to the screen (by default
| it came with integration with CP/M only, which was pretty poor),
| for which WordStar provided quite a good patching tool to
| integrate the routines into the main executable. You could also
| do scary things with the printer interface.
| jstanley wrote:
| I built a Z80 machine a couple of years ago and have had great
| fun learning about CP/M on it, I'm curious what was poor about
| using the BDOS (I assume) to access the keyboard?
| zabzonk wrote:
| BDOS was slow, and depending on platform might not support
| single keystrokes or single screen updates well. Going
| through the machines BIOS (or direct hardware access) was
| generally much more satisfactory, and you could also take
| advantage of the hardware peculiarities, which BDOS didn't
| unless it had been well-tailored, which it often wasn't.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| You're right, here's the intro of one the ASM files for my CP/M
| S-100 computer, it's straight from my WordStar archives. The
| bare-bones, skeletal outline files came from the board
| manufacturer but it was constantly tweaked and recompiled using
| WordStar. The file is 107k bytes long _(all preliminaries incl.
| revs deleted):_
|
| WordStar used as editor here: "<...> ;
| ========================== Copyright 1983, CompuPro
| Corporation. ; || HMX1BIOS.ASM || ;
| ========================== ; CONSTANTS: VERS EQU 22
| ; CP/M version number CBIOSV EQU 'N' ;CBIOS revision
| level (2.2x) (CompuPro level) ; LIBRARY CONSTANTS:
| MACLIB COMPUPRO ;Disk and Serial/Parallel interface constants
| MACLIB ASCII ;Mnemonics for common ASCII, other special
| characters MACLIB ACTIVE ;Flags directing
| construction for the various ;CompuPro products to
| "customize" the BIOS MACLIB CPMDISK ;CP/M disk
| defaults, CBIOS offsets, BDOS functions MACLIB
| BOOTSCPM ;CP/M cold/warm boot routines for each of the
| ;possible controller types ; PROGRAM: ; The next
| statement produces a harmless error message if MAC is used
| instead. ASEG ;Used Digital Research RMAC assembler
| and ORG BIOS ;LINK linker to assemble this code
| JMP CBOOT ;+00h Cold boot <...>"
| sidpatil wrote:
| For a long time, I used Joe's Own Editor [1], which featured a
| WordStar keybinding mode. I still use it from time to time.
|
| [1] https://joe-editor.sourceforge.io/
| toast0 wrote:
| I've been using joe since the 90s. One time I was helping
| someone with their computer and they used WordStar, so I knew
| the keybindings pretty much for free.
| bronlund wrote:
| He says he has tried a lot of editors, but I wonder if he has
| tried Vim. I'm thinking that Vim would be the perfect solution
| for folks like that. They would get a highly flexible and
| keyboard focused editor which respect the flow of thought, and at
| the same time, a modern interface in regards to color themes and
| font preferences and such.
| glitchc wrote:
| I guess I'm too young for WordStar. WordPerfect 6.2 is immediate
| enough for me and the Alt-based menubar feels very familiar. To
| each his own.
| reiichiroh wrote:
| For whatever reason, v5.1 of WordPerfect remains my favorite.
| kcartlidge wrote:
| Agreed. Version 5.1, or 4.2 if I'm feeling particularly
| minimal. Alongside notes kept in a DataEase DOS v4.5
| database.
| bolangi wrote:
| XyWrite, faster and more customizable.
| whatshisface wrote:
| I find it interesting that both of the biggest points this raises
| (hotkeys, nonmodality, inline comments) can be obtained with vim
| and latex.
| mobilene wrote:
| Oh gosh, early word processors. My first was PFS:Write, and later
| XyWrite, and finally WordStar -- and WordStar was most assuredly
| king. Once you get the hang of the keystrokes you can fly.
| agbell wrote:
| I am a big fan of Robert J. Sawyer. He is like Michael Crichton,
| except tech things go good instead of bad.
|
| On the topic of word processors: The famed New Yorker writer John
| McPhee only writes with Kedit, which I had never even heard of
| until he spoke of it a lot in his book on writing. I seem to
| recall a story of him needing to pin down the orginal creator at
| some point, well after the creator had abandoned the project, for
| some tech support.
|
| https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/01/14/structure
|
| https://www.kedit.com/
| ggm wrote:
| Having the commands as a display over the edit session was a
| genius move. UcSD p-system did this too for their OS.
|
| How it showed mark-up was also good.
| Klwohu wrote:
| For me? It's Org Mode for writing. But it's easy to understand
| how people can become productive in an environment which they
| spent time learning how to use. And of course there's a modern,
| Free clone called WordTsar as mentioned elsewhere in this thread
| if people want to try it out.
| anonymousiam wrote:
| I began using WordStar in 1980 for development (in "non-document
| mode") on CP/M. It was the best thing ever available for that
| platform, and it had some features that I've never seen
| duplicated elsewhere (such as "column mode" cut and paste). Back
| when I was using it, the standard computer keyboard had the
| "control" key directly to the left of the "A" key (where the
| "Caps Lock" key is now). I was never happy that IBM moved the
| control key, and I was even less happy when Sun Microsystems
| followed suit (but for a while you could still order the Sun
| keyboards with the control key in the right place). I got in bad
| habit of moving my left hand one key left so I could use my left
| pinky to hold control down while using the "magic diamond" to
| move the cursor around. It took me many years to un-learn that
| bad habit.
|
| By 1996 (when this article was written) WordStar had already
| committed suicide by pushing "WordStar 2000" on everybody, which
| completely broke the old user interface.
| varjag wrote:
| > "column mode" cut and paste
|
| Emacs (of course) has rectangles.
| hguant wrote:
| > Back when I was using it, the standard computer keyboard had
| the "control" key directly to the left of the "A" key (where
| the "Caps Lock" key is now).
|
| One of the first things I do is rebind caps to control - I've
| never understood the need for a caps lock key
| hilbert42 wrote:
| _" I was never happy that IBM moved the control key, and I was
| even less happy when Sun Microsystems followed suit (but for a
| while you could still order the Sun keyboards with the control
| key in the right place) "_
|
| You weren't alone, that was contentious because of WordStar's
| keystrokes and other earlier terminals. Incidentally, I first
| entered text into WordStar using a VT100 terminal connected to
| a Godbout S100 dual-CPU (8085/8086) computer.
|
| _" By 1996 (when this article was written) WordStar had
| already committed suicide by pushing "WordStar 2000" on
| everybody, which completely broke the old user interface."_
|
| Note my earlier post re my conversation with Seymour
| Rubinstein. Many took him to task over the 'suicidal' change.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| I've used many wordprocessors but WordStar still is my favorite,
| I first used it under CP/M and later on the IBM PC. Anyone who
| has used it knows that once you got the feel for the WordStar
| keystroke diamond it was magic to use. I still have hundreds of
| files in WordStar format and I can either import them into a GUI
| WYSIWYG WP or I can still use them in WordStar 7 running under an
| emulated environment in Windows.
|
| WordStar came in various varieties with version 7 the last before
| it changed direction to WordStar 2000 (which, incidentally, was
| well before the year 2000). This put death knell on WordStar as
| its keystrokes were different to previous ones. Making a stupid
| and unpopular change like that ought to be a lesson for every
| software developer
|
| When WordStar 2000 was released I recall that when at an
| exhibition having an argument with Seymour Rubinstein, CEO of
| MicroPro, WS's developer, about these stupid changes. I told him
| bluntly that I would not be upgrading from version 7 as I saw no
| reason why I should relearn all the hard-earned keystrokes for
| little advantage. The fact that WordStar 2000 failed, it seems
| that I was far from being alone with that view.
|
| _Incidentally, for those who are not familiar with WordStar,
| MicroPro or Seymour Rubinstein--Seymour Rubinstein was the
| inventor of the now infamous EULA--End User License Agreement!
| WordStar was close to the first program to have an EULA attached
| (from memory I think WordMaster (an earlier WP that predated
| WordStar), was actually first--someone correct me if I 'm
| wrong)._
| agumonkey wrote:
| > WordStar keystroke diamond
|
| reminds me of Alias software (Maya but maybe others) use or
| layout as ergonomics.
|
| They used QWER and ZXCV as main rapid keybindings for the most
| used operations (pick, translate, rotate, scale). You didn't
| have to invest more than 20 seconds to remember that.
|
| A lot of knowledge of this kind is probably locked in old
| forgotten ware.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| Think you're right, it rings bell (albeit faint). Did the
| Wang wordprocessor use it too? (I used a Wang WP a few times
| long ago but I've no idea now. In fact the Wang was the very
| first WP I used -- except for KP26/29 card punches with an
| IBM-360.) :-)
| LocalH wrote:
| >(from memory I think WordMaster (an earlier WP that predated
| WordStar), was actually first--someone correct me if I'm wrong)
|
| From a cursory search, it seems that WordMaster is the direct
| predecessor to WordStar, programmed by the same person.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| From memory--it's been a long time--WordMaster was MicroPro's
| first product so presumably Rubinstein applied the EULA to it
| first (thus it was likely the first with an EULA). If not,
| then I'd guess he'd have applied the EULA with later
| issues/releases as WordMaster was also concurrently available
| along with WordStar.
|
| Anyone with an original CP/M WordMaster 8" floppy (or its
| contents) to check?
| rimiform wrote:
| The ESDX 'diamond' would be nightmare to use on an ortholinear
| keyboard.
| wombatmobile wrote:
| > I've used many wordprocessors but X still is my favorite
|
| The best X is the X you know.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| Yeah, right, it's usually the case, but I've used MS Word,
| LibO, and many others since that time and for a much longer
| time than I ever used WordStar (consistently that is). The
| difference with WordStar is that one doesn't get sidetracked
| with layout and other futzing about, it was all WP without
| distractions.
| morazow wrote:
| I always remember this exchange with real writer when I see &
| hear WordStar :)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5REM-3nWHg
| mhd wrote:
| I don't have a deep personal affectation for WordStar, although I
| do appreciate it's keyboard layout, but what I _do_ miss is
| writers having _opinions_ about these things.
|
| These days it seems that it's mostly "whatever version of Word
| that came with my Laptop/Times New Roman 12".
|
| We programmers still have our "holy wars" (although I see a
| decrease of passion here, too, with safe choices like VSC or
| IntelliJ being more and more the default.) But back in the days,
| even writers with non-CS backgrounds could wax poetic about
| XyWrite vs. WordStar vs. Word (DOS/Win/Mac) vs WordPerfect.
| (Heck, WordPerfect even made lawyers have an opinion of their
| own)
| bonaldi wrote:
| Those debates continue - to Scrivener or not to Scrivener is
| quite the topic with long-form writers. And Final Draft is
| heavily discussed.
|
| But the reason the debate is dying out is because the
| competition is dying out: Word won. And that doesn't mean the
| app, it means all the Simonyi-type ways of thinking it brings
| with it: paragraph-level formatting with overrides, single
| frame with embeds, no visible codes beyond P-marks, output-
| dependent page definition, local fonts, etc.
|
| It's like if all editors were just vi variants and nobody was
| trying anything else any longer.
|
| Which is a damn shame, because there are an awful lot of
| alternative approaches to rich document creation that could be
| explored, especially now the printed page is probably the least
| important part of things, but developers don't care (plain text
| obsessives, usually) and the industry doesn't (because
| competing with Word and GDocs doesn't make you rich).
|
| Instead what action there would be in the space has moved to
| things like Notion. Which is great for note-takers, less so for
| writers.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| I'm in a couple of chats with writers. There are constant
| discussions about tools: Google Docs, Word, Apple Pages,
| Scrivener, and even vim with markdown and git.
|
| We all have different tools and different ways of writing.
| We've shared photos of our workspaces.
|
| A lot of this doesn't happen in public anymore because we've
| moved to chat programs like Telegram and Discord.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > WordPerfect. (Heck, WordPerfect even made lawyers have an
| opinion of their own)
|
| IIRC, WordPerfect is only still a thing because Word still does
| not do footnotes the way lawyers like (and courts require).
| agumonkey wrote:
| Oh, french court room I helped last summer does indeed use
| WordPerfect 12 .. it might very well be due to this sort of
| arguments.
| paultopia wrote:
| It's much more than footnotes. Courts have a lot of very
| picky formatting requirements, plus lawyers care a lot about
| presentation. Reveal codes is the thing about WordPerfect
| that lawyers love the most, because it gives you fine grained
| control over that stuff on a character/word level without
| having to pray to the Word Styles god.
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