[HN Gopher] Apple Confirms iMac Pro Will Be Discontinued, Recomm...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple Confirms iMac Pro Will Be Discontinued, Recommends 27-Inch
       iMac
        
       Author : ingve
       Score  : 124 points
       Date   : 2021-03-06 15:23 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.macrumors.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.macrumors.com)
        
       | themgt wrote:
       | My real hope is Apple releases the rumored "Mac Pro mini" to fill
       | this gap. My desktop is still a 6 core Xeon 2010 Mac Pro, which
       | now has 32GB RAM, 2 SATA SSDs, two HDDs, and with PCIe a NVMe
       | SSD, Radeon RX 570 that can drive 3 displays, and USB-C card, all
       | of which were surprisingly affordable upgrades. It even runs
       | Catalina with OpenCore (amazing software btw).
       | 
       | Apple really needs something in between the $700 Mac Mini and
       | $6000 Mac Pro. A somewhat larger case that opens easily and some
       | expansion slots should not carry a $5000 premium, and no I don't
       | want a built in display.
        
         | brianwawok wrote:
         | Apple has been removing expansion slots for 10 years. I
         | wouldn't hold your breath for the mythical priced like a dell
         | with user upgradable parts but running OSX without hackintosh.
        
       | perardi wrote:
       | Might be worth noting that the top-of-the-line iMac was, at least
       | in terms of semi-real world benchmarks, was beating the iMac Pro.
       | 
       | https://barefeats.com/2020-iMac-5K-8core-versus-2017-iMac-Pr...
       | 
       | And at quite the discount. You give up ECC RAM, and I think the
       | fans on the non-Pro iMac ramp up like turboprop, but that iMac
       | Pro was getting long in the tooth.
       | 
       |  _I am a bit out of the Xeon loop; was there even an appropriate
       | Xeon to update the Pro?_
        
         | giobox wrote:
         | You also 10-gig ethernet and 4 TB3 ports which is pretty nice
         | as well, given TB3 is only way to expand the computer if you
         | want PCI-E devices (more likely if you are a serious customer
         | for a 5k computer...). The standard iMac only has two, of which
         | one will likely be used up powering an external monitor in a
         | professional workstation. For a "Pro" machine, these kind of
         | things often matter. My current top-of-line iMac (non-pro)
         | setup has both TB3 ports consumed with just an eGPU and a
         | monitor, but I would otherwise agree for cost conscious buyers
         | its the better machine.
         | 
         | I'm not sure if the updated 2020 non-pro iMac ever got the T2
         | line rate encryption feature the iMac Pro has either.
        
           | minimaxir wrote:
           | The latest 27in iMac has upgradeable 10gig Ethernet and a T2
           | chip.
        
             | jeffbee wrote:
             | The current model iMac is a monster and a pretty good deal,
             | too. The 10g ethernet option is only $100, half the price
             | of a thunderbolt 10g peripheral, and 1/3rd the price of a
             | 10g add-in card like the Intel X550 or X710. The main thing
             | you give up is ECC memory.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | No. The iMac Pro has the latest Cascade Lake parts. Arguably
         | the "Gen 2 Refresh" bunch of Xeon SP parts are newer, but in
         | workstation scenarios they're not really faster.
        
       | matthewmacleod wrote:
       | Not really a lot of evidence either way.
       | 
       | One of the issues with it as a product was that there was little
       | they could actually do in terms of releasing newer, higher-
       | performance models (given a relative lack of processor options).
       | Eventually the high-end, non-Pro iMac basically caught up, so I
       | expect sales have basically been nonexistent for some time now.
       | 
       | We could easily see an ARM version later on - for the people who
       | want a high-end desktop without requiring the excessive Mac Pro.
       | But it could equally be the case that there's not much space in
       | the product lineup any more and it's quietly replaced by a high-
       | end ARM iMac.
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | _Update: Since this story's original publication, Apple has
         | confirmed to MacRumors that the iMac Pro has indeed been
         | discontinued._
        
           | matthewmacleod wrote:
           | Seems like quite a decent bit of evidence then :)
        
       | stepanhruda wrote:
       | Someone plug it back in!
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | devrand wrote:
       | Can the link/title be updated to the MacRumors article that got a
       | confirmed statement that it's being discontinued from Apple?
       | 
       | https://www.macrumors.com/2021/03/06/apple-confirms-imac-pro...
        
       | motohagiography wrote:
       | Out of curiosity, instead of killing products, why don't they
       | raise the price so the production of fewer of them is profitable?
       | 
       | There's probably a gap in demand for them up to say a +50% price
       | increase, but there may be a market for fewer of them at double
       | or more the price.
        
         | tonyedgecombe wrote:
         | Besides anything else I don't expect they want the transition
         | away from Intel to last any longer than necessary.
        
         | protomyth wrote:
         | Because the value proposition for the current iMac Pro at its
         | current prices was already a bit iffy compared to the new
         | iMacs. Raising the price would just mean the decision to buy a
         | current iMac is much easier.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | The cost of keeping a manufacturing line open is immense,
         | better to make a bunch and warehouse them (or even better, let
         | third parties do that).
        
         | sib wrote:
         | One hypothesis is that they know that what they have coming
         | next on Apple Silicon is so much faster that the people who
         | bought the (newly overpriced) Intel-based ones would be
         | extremely annoyed.
        
       | coldtea wrote:
       | > _Apple hasn't made an official announcement the iMac Pro's
       | future, but the Mac's product page speaks volumes. As first
       | reported by MacRumors, the configurable models of the iMac Pro
       | are no longer available for purchase. The only remaining iMac Pro
       | on Apple's online store is the $4,999 base configuration, which
       | Apple notes prominently at the top of the page will only remain
       | available 'While supplies last.'_
       | 
       | What a crappy article. Of course it has stopped with new Intel
       | iMac Pros.
       | 
       | Any new iMac Pro will have to wait for the ARM version.
       | 
       | That doesn't mean it has pulled any plug...
        
         | eyelidlessness wrote:
         | Huh? They're not dropping configuration and listing "while
         | supplies last" on any of their other Intel products. This is
         | _exactly_ how Apple kills a product line.
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | > _They're not dropping configuration and listing "while
           | supplies last" on any of their other Intel products._
           | 
           | That's because they have plenty of supplies to their other
           | Intel products, and continue to build them even because they
           | are crucial to tens of millions of customers, whereas the
           | iMac Pro is a limited units higher-end product -- whose stock
           | has dwindled and whose any replacement will come after 2021
           | and more pressing ARM releases (the standard iMac, the 16"
           | Macbook Pro, the Mac Pro, and so on).
           | 
           | They have stopped selling items that became available again
           | in new versions/designs many times in the past, with similar
           | "while supplies last" fashion.
           | 
           | Remember how the Mac Pro wasn't renewed for 5+ years and
           | there were similar cries, and then a new model came out, with
           | an updated "recycle bin" design, that Apple has been working
           | on for the best part of those years?
        
             | eyelidlessness wrote:
             | Okay, guess we'll just see then.
        
         | welearnednothng wrote:
         | Apple isn't in the habit of treating end of life or soon to be
         | replaced products in this way, so it raised some eyebrows.
         | 
         | MacRumors got a follow up from Apple confirming that it has
         | been discontinued. I suspect with the upcoming performance of
         | the Apple silicon, lines between an iMac and iMac Pro were
         | about to get blurry... but that's just a hunch.
         | 
         | From MacRumors: "We've since confirmed with Apple that when
         | supplies run out, the iMac Pro will no longer be available
         | whatsoever. Apple says the latest 27-inch iMac introduced in
         | August is the preferred choice for the vast majority of pro
         | iMac users, and said customers who need even more performance
         | and expandability can choose the Mac Pro."
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | > _Apple isn 't in the habit of treating end of life or soon
           | to be replaced products in this way, so it raised some
           | eyebrows._
           | 
           | They have done the same thing time and again during similar
           | transitions or new designs. The eat through the stock, and
           | then the item is not available at all, until at some point a
           | new design/version hits.
           | 
           | In fact, reports of "stock dwindling" and "while stocks last"
           | etc and Apple stopping selling an item on the web Applestore
           | are things Apple-focused news websites explicitly use to tell
           | that a new version of some product is in the works or soon to
           | land...
           | 
           | In this case, the iMac Pro is niche enough, that the new
           | version is not soon to land, as other more staple products
           | have a priority for the Apple Silicon treatment. That doesn't
           | mean it's not in the works.
        
           | Applejinx wrote:
           | ANY Apple Silicon iMac is going to kill, just kill, the top
           | of the line Intel Xeon iMac Pros. Blurry is not the word.
           | It's gonna leapfrog the Xeons for almost any purpose
           | rendering the whole thing ridiculous.
           | 
           | Source: I literally have an 18-core, 64 gig RAM Xeon iMac Pro
           | and one of the new laptops (Macbook pro, 16 gig RAM). If they
           | don't have to get 20 hours of battery life and they do
           | literally anything to expand the processing from what they
           | have, they're going to obliterate the discontinued ones so
           | hard that it'd be insane or criminally misleading to continue
           | selling the iMac Pros.
           | 
           | They've already quit selling the machine I have, and I kinda
           | wish they had half a year ago... because I spent more than
           | $8000 in the belief that I was going to put a stake in the
           | ground and rely on that computer for a goodly number of years
           | and that it was relevant to where Apple was headed.
           | 
           | Now (if Linus Tech Tips is to be believed) I can get a
           | baseline Macbook Air, pop the back off, put a thermal
           | conductive pad to vent heat away from the heatsink to the
           | aluminum surface of the laptop, and get observably better
           | performance on at least some realworld tasks for literally
           | one EIGHTH the price.
           | 
           | I won't say I feel ripped off, but I feel extremely
           | blindsided and that's only going to get worse as Apple
           | continues to put out more products. Not sure people quite
           | understand how inferior Apple's 'top line' products from the
           | last generation, are to what they're currently producing.
           | 
           | Right now if you need heavy processing of VERY specific types
           | involving many cores and many gigs of physical RAM but that
           | doesn't fit into a category Apple's covering already with the
           | M1s, such as 4k and 8k video editing that's better done on
           | any M1 machine, that's the last known good use of the iMac
           | Pros and Mac Pros. Only the heaviest of heavy lifting that's
           | not covered by the strong suits of the M1...
           | 
           | I give it four months before Apple has something maybe at the
           | $2000-3000 price point that absolutely destroys all the
           | previous machines, no matter how 'Pro', at any price. And
           | this is why they've got to kill off the previous lines.
           | People will be really angry when this becomes apparent.
           | Better to not even try and sell the machines, much less try
           | to market them as 'more performance'. Expandability, yeah,
           | there's that.
        
             | kitsunesoba wrote:
             | Yeah, I had a hunch something like this was going to happen
             | which is why I opted for a refurbished base model iMac Pro
             | over something new. Still expensive (~$3500), but not
             | nearly as bad for the period of time I was able to get use
             | out of it. Will probably trade it in along with a 2017 MBP
             | 15" to pay for the majority of a Mac Pro Mini or ARM MBP
             | 16" and hopefully one of the lower-cost displays they're
             | rumored to be releasing this year.
        
         | shortformblog wrote:
         | Engadget confirmed it via Apple.
         | 
         | https://www.engadget.com/apple-imac-pro-discontinued-1551254...
         | 
         | > _If you were hoping to buy an iMac Pro for some serious work,
         | you 'd better act quickly. 9to5Mac reports (and Apple has
         | confirmed to Engadget) that Apple is winding down sales of its
         | all-in-one workstation. You can still buy one, but it's limited
         | to the base 10-core Xeon configuration and only available
         | "while supplies last." You'll have to be patient, too, as
         | orders are taking three to four weeks as we write this._
        
       | Applejinx wrote:
       | I'm not a bit surprised they're doing it. I literally have an
       | iMac Pro, 18 core Xeon with 64 gigs RAM, and a newer M1 Macbook
       | Pro with 16 gigs RAM that was a quarter the price.
       | 
       | The M1 laptop at a quarter the price is faster than the maxed-out
       | Intel-based iMac Pro. Not for everything... I do streaming using
       | software x264 encoding and can set the quality levels way higher
       | on the iMac Pro as it's native and 18 cores (the laptop's running
       | OBS in Rosetta and has 8 cores, four of which are efficiency
       | cores). But for some things the laptop's already a bit faster,
       | consistently, right now. At a quarter of the price.
       | 
       | I'm guessing their experiments with scaling up what's in the
       | initial M1-based Macs to more power vs. just maximum efficiency
       | (for instance, a desktop that doesn't need to get 20 hour battery
       | life and can actively cool itself) are turning out so shocking
       | that they know they've got to kill the current product line,
       | immediately.
       | 
       | I bought my iMac Pro in June 2020. That's a little over half a
       | year ago, and I'm still frustrated that they took my money
       | knowing they've got this in development. It's a good thing it has
       | such a nice screen and still has plenty of use, but it's going to
       | be absolutely decimated by what comes out next. It's pretty well
       | decimated now by my little laptop if you count how much energy is
       | wasted, and how for certain tasks the giant 'Pro' monster
       | absolutely cannot keep up with the introductory M1 models running
       | native code, at a quarter or an eighth of the cost.
       | 
       | There is no WAY they can keep selling their current line. Right
       | now they shouldn't be selling anything that isn't an M1 or some
       | other Apple Silicon.
        
         | zepto wrote:
         | > I bought my iMac Pro in June 2020. That's a little over half
         | a year ago, and I'm still frustrated that they took my money
         | knowing they've got this in development.
         | 
         | I would be too.
         | 
         | On the other hand there are people who really needed that
         | machine then for whom it was worth the money not to have to
         | wait a year.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | > Right now they shouldn't be selling anything that isn't an M1
         | or some other Apple Silicon.
         | 
         | They can't because TSMC is overbooked already.
        
         | steelframe wrote:
         | > I'm still frustrated that they took my money knowing they've
         | got this in development
         | 
         | I don't think a Mac Mini M1 replaces an iMac Pro right now. The
         | Mac Mini M1 maxes out at 16GiB of RAM, which means it will
         | aggressively use swap for certain workloads that require a lot
         | of memory. The speed of swap tends to mask the fact that you're
         | swapping a lot more, but I think it puts a lot of wear on the
         | flash. You don't want to do that because that can decrease the
         | lifespan of your storage, and you can't swap the storage out
         | once it's past its useful lifespan.
         | 
         | Because of longevity concerns, if you're running memory-
         | intensive workloads, I'd suggest getting a previous-generation
         | iMac Pro with more memory. There's no published timeline on
         | when Apple will release an Apple Silicon-based iMac Pro that
         | can be configured with higher amounts of RAM (i.e., 64GiB). It
         | might happen this year, or you might be waiting more like 2 or
         | 3 years for that to happen.
         | 
         | I don't think anybody who has purchased a previous-generation
         | iMac Pro with more memory has gotten any kind of a "raw deal"
         | from Apple.
        
           | Tagbert wrote:
           | When Apple formally announced the M1 Macs last June, they
           | committed to replacing their entire lineup within 2 years. I
           | suspect that they plan to do it well within that period.
           | 
           | I would expect that the Mac Pro and a possible iMac Pro
           | equivalent might be the last models replaced. Still, based on
           | their timelines you might see an iMac that could fully
           | replace the iMac Pro as soon as end of this year or early
           | 2022.
        
           | usrusr wrote:
           | > The Mac Mini M1 maxes out at 16GiB of RAM
           | 
           | ...and that tight coupling between RAM and CPU must be a big
           | part of its performance.
           | 
           | I wouldn't really be surprised if they went for a somewhat
           | lazy architecture for the stationary/pro segment that simply
           | (well, "simply", it won't be easy, just maybe less hard than
           | a properly scaled up M1, perhaps much less hard) put n of
           | those units on a shared carrier board with lots of memory
           | slots that would either serve as slower RAM, relegating those
           | 16 GB to an awesome "L4 cache" or maybe even just as one big
           | volatile SSD swapspace.
           | 
           | A "lazy architecture" might appear a bit out of character for
           | Apple, but that pro segment must be so far from their core
           | focus that this approach could work out really well. A
           | conventional strategy whati new tech gets introduced in the
           | pro segment and then trickles down until it eventually
           | appears on the iPhone wouldn't really cut it because the
           | phone is their unquestioned flagship and a "pro board" could
           | make trickling up so easy that they might theoretically even
           | make those things end-user upgradeable.
        
         | izacus wrote:
         | > The M1 laptop at a quarter the price is faster than the
         | maxed-out Intel-based iMac Pro.
         | 
         | Even with the "not for everything" guard, this is still some
         | seriously heavy BS.
         | 
         | iMac Pro wasn't used by people who ran Geekbench, but by people
         | who benefitted with bespoke accelerator card, multiple display
         | outputs (which M1 significantly restricted) and support for
         | large amount of memory
         | 
         | Seriously, let's avoid this type of hyperbole and silly
         | comparisons.
        
           | benreesman wrote:
           | FWIW my daily driver has been a maxed out iMac Pro, albeit
           | from 2018.
           | 
           | I just got my hands on an M1 Mini and it demolishes the iMac
           | on my use case as well.
        
             | matwood wrote:
             | > I just got my hands on an M1 Mini and it demolishes the
             | iMac on my use case as well.
             | 
             | This is why the iMac Pro is going away, it's simply not
             | needed. The upcoming Apple Silicon iMac should be able to
             | span entry level up to iMac Pro level with just BTO
             | options.
        
           | alexfringes wrote:
           | Replaced a 10 core, 64 GB RAM iMac Pro with a maxed-out M1
           | MacBook Air and very happy with that choice. Kept the iMac
           | for Windows and "just in case" the Air doesn't work out. But
           | it's just sitting in a closet now. It isn't just whether or
           | not the speed tests look certain ways, you're right. It's
           | also the fact that the Air is just a really great laptop.
           | It's so good at being a laptop that, after years of
           | compromising via a dual machine setup, the Air has allowed me
           | to return to all the great things laptops used to represent,
           | while providing comparable-to-desktop speed in the same
           | machine. It can easily balance in all sorts of couch potato
           | positions, functions as my main input to a larger screen, and
           | can sit on my lap without burning me or giving me "build
           | anxiety" like other laptops, where I'd dread the fan noise
           | and heat of building. I'm not looking forward to having to
           | decide to even have a desktop again because of however much
           | faster the Apple Silicon desktops will be. Because having
           | this much power in the same setup that I can take everywhere
           | is really enticing and differs from past laptop offerings in
           | the aforementioned improvements (and others like battery life
           | or even the maybe somewhat silly option to run the Dyson
           | iPhone app to control my office fan). PS: I think you might
           | be thinking of the Mac Pro re the accelerator card, no?
        
           | djrogers wrote:
           | > iMac Pro wasn't used by people who ran Geekbench, but by
           | people who benefitted with bespoke accelerator card,
           | 
           | The iMac Pro never supported the afterburner card - that's a
           | Mac Pro exclusive. I think you're getting your products mixed
           | up here...
        
             | izacus wrote:
             | Ugh, I was thinking of the Mac Pro, not iMac Pro. Mistake
             | -_-
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | What I've found over the years is that Apple's marketing can
           | often lead people to buy tools they don't necessarily need.
           | For every consummate Macbook professional I've found, there's
           | always another savant who prefers to spend their money on a
           | 15 year old Thinkpad and a 2-year supply of Four Loko. It's a
           | somewhat ironic equilibrium in my eyes, but I think that's
           | part of the ultimate joy of programming.
           | 
           | However, I mostly agree with you. I think Apple's marketing
           | does a pretty poor job of communicating the difference in
           | their products, and it's certainly intentional. One of my
           | friends ended up buying the iMac Pro for development, and I
           | can't understand for the life of me why. Similarly, he also
           | derides me for not buying a Mac Mini already and ditching my
           | Linux ecosystem for good. C'est va, I suppose.
        
             | jamroom wrote:
             | The iMac Pro with it's 5K screen would make an excellent
             | development system I would think.
        
           | graeme wrote:
           | I have an imac pro. I bought it so I could make live video
           | recordings without fan noise, and export video quickly.
           | 
           | I bought my assistant an M1 macbook air for editing. It is by
           | definition quieter, and yet reliably beat my imac pro in
           | renders!
           | 
           | I would love a machine with ecc ram though. Way fewer random
           | crashes since I got my imac pro.
           | 
           | As for outputs, I'm certainly waiting for more, though the M1
           | mac mini isn't terribly if you get one of those new hubs. It
           | has ethernet, two usb c, two usb a and a dedicated power
           | port.
           | 
           | Yeah there's are people using the imac pro for super crazy
           | advanced things but many people just wanted a fast quiet
           | computer with ports.
           | 
           | (The imac pro is still super quiet for recordings. But the
           | air is fanless)
        
             | Applejinx wrote:
             | I literally have the 18 core Xeon iMac Pro, with 64 gigs of
             | RAM. I bought the Macbook Pro (not the Air) with 16 gigs of
             | RAM and 1T SSD.
             | 
             | Not as concerned with video editing and renders. The iMac
             | Pro can wreck the Macbook on specifically OBS software x264
             | encoding, while OBS is not Apple Silicon-native. Repeat,
             | software encoding, not attempting to use the hardware chip
             | (there can be issues streaming to YouTube using it). This
             | is the one case I've found, of anything, where the iMac Pro
             | wins.
             | 
             | I tried Minecraft, as there's an M1-native version out
             | there. My old intel Mini: 70 fps. The iMac Pro: 240 fps.
             | The M1 Macbook: 270 fps.
             | 
             | I'm gonna say it's rare that my M1 Macbook Pro does NOT
             | beat my Xeon iMac Pro at four times the price, four times
             | the RAM. Again, I literally own both. I've even found a
             | purpose (software x264) where the M1 machine can't keep up.
             | It's the only thing I've found so far, where the M1 isn't
             | faster. Everything else about operating this machine is
             | faster than the iMac Pro, which remains my primary desktop
             | I use every day.
        
               | Terretta wrote:
               | What does "literally" indicate or emphasize in this
               | context?
               | 
               | You used it above, and here, in a way I can't tell if the
               | sentence is different without the word or if I should
               | take some meaning from it.
        
               | jiofih wrote:
               | Probably not the best word for it, but it's clear he is
               | emphasizing the fact he owns both machines, and is
               | reporting first-hand experience and not just blurting out
               | an "informed opinion".
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | I think Apple users employ the word "literally" to
               | insinuate that they don't actually own the device, but
               | they've seen their favorite apologist tech-tubers run
               | some comparisons and really liked what they saw.
        
               | graeme wrote:
               | Slang/incorrect use. Used to show emphasis.
               | 
               | A better use would be: "I literally have the best intel
               | mac and the m1 air beat it"
               | 
               | In that case it is literal. OP probably just switched it
               | over to a case where highlighting literal ownership is
               | superfluous.
        
               | jagger27 wrote:
               | Minor nitpick: the iMac Pro running Minecraft is pushing
               | a lot more pixels than the MacBook at similar frame
               | rates, assuming you used the native resolution of each
               | device. Correct me if I'm wrong.
        
               | Applejinx wrote:
               | I didn't. It was windowed, plus on the M1 I was running a
               | different screen resolution so that windowed could be
               | 1920x1080, so that was actually a larger Minecraft window
               | than the native screen resolution (hiDPI) would allow.
        
               | spacedcowboy wrote:
               | I have both too. The M1 is fast, no doubt, but throw a
               | big compilation project at it and it's smoked by the iMac
               | Pro. Parallelism trumps the M1's smaller number of cores.
        
               | 1123581321 wrote:
               | What type and size of compile, and what numbers do you
               | see?
        
               | Applejinx wrote:
               | That's fair. I see that in software encoding to x264, in
               | OBS (though admittedly the M1 is running under Rosetta
               | still). The iMac Pro can reliably stream at 'slow'
               | quality level, but the M1 can barely go above 'ultrafast'
               | without choking.
               | 
               | You've nailed it as far as the reason: if you can come up
               | with a task that legitimately needs parallelism that
               | heavy, that's where the Xeon comes into its own. Anything
               | lighter, and the M1 starts to zip ahead.
        
               | Toutouxc wrote:
               | M1 native version of Minecrat? AFAIK the Java version is,
               | well, Java (also slow as hell), and the other (Bedrock)
               | doesn't run on macOS.
        
             | techrat wrote:
             | You had an iMac Pro. Filtering fan noise is trivial with
             | that kind of processing power.
        
               | graeme wrote:
               | I said
               | 
               | > The imac pro is still super quiet for recordings. But
               | the air is fanless
               | 
               | I have no issue with the imac pro! Just to say the M1
               | does win on both counts.
        
           | perardi wrote:
           | So these benchmarks are a bit out of date, as at least some
           | of the Adobe apps have gone M1-native, but the iMac Pro does
           | wallop the MacBook Pro in several cases.
           | 
           | https://barefeats.com/m1-versus-imac-pro.html
           | 
           | -
           | 
           |  _"...bespoke accelerator card..."_
           | 
           | Are you thinking of the Mac Pro here? I don't think the iMac
           | Pro had anything exotic for GPU compute.
        
             | Applejinx wrote:
             | Thing is, I don't play Warhammer :)
             | 
             | My iMac Pro has the Radeon Pro Vega 56 8 GB. I'm given to
             | understand the absolute top of the line had some kind of
             | problems... still, that's as much in graphics card RAM as
             | exists in the whole RAM of some of the M1s. I'm betting
             | Warhammer makes heavy use of the graphics card and it's
             | that which is walloping the M1-running-Rosetta-emulation.
             | 
             | This probably means there will still be games where a
             | previous version with a fancy enough graphics card will get
             | higher framerates than what the M1 Macs can get. I don't
             | anticipate Apple ever making those kinds of concessions to
             | the gamer market, so that's where you're going to see the
             | only holdouts (in terms of, M1 doing super poorly). And
             | that, mostly with stuff that expects real gamer cards. I
             | don't think the Radeon Pro Vega 56 is nearly top of the
             | line for a gamer card but I can easily believe it's better
             | than the on-board graphics for the initial M1 machines.
             | Remember part of the selling point for the iMac Pros is
             | that they could summon up graphics-card grunt for the
             | purposes of 3d modeling.
             | 
             | I should try some Blender experiments and see what's
             | snappier, there's a possibility the iMac Pro will make a
             | decent showing for itself for that reason :)
        
             | izacus wrote:
             | > Are you thinking of the Mac Pro here? I don't think the
             | iMac Pro had anything exotic for GPU compute.
             | 
             | Yup, my mistake. No idea why I was thinking of the Mac Pro.
        
           | titzer wrote:
           | I don't think we've even remotely scratched the surface of
           | what the Neural Engine can do. Also, the battery life is
           | incredible and stays up to the hyperbole I've seen online. 10
           | hours of heavy work and takes it like a champ.
           | 
           | I can't speak to the all-out performance comparison with a 18
           | core Xeon, but yeah, this chip is pretty great.
        
         | mgkimsal wrote:
         | you can expand the ram, though, right? for _some_ workloads,
         | that 's still going to be key. but yeah, I hear the
         | frustration. I've been on the fence about getting a refurb 27"
         | iMac. have been mostly laptop based for years, but the pandemic
         | made me reconsider a desktop system again. Then... M1 news came
         | out and... it's all up in the air.
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | > you can expand the ram, though, right?
           | 
           | Ehh kind of. The 27" iMac (non Pro) has a RAM door, and RAM
           | is fully user serviceable.
           | 
           | The iMac Pro has slotted RAM, but it has no door and is not
           | considered a user-serviceable part by Apple. So you have to
           | disassemble the machine at the expense of your warranty.
           | 
           | I believe you can also pay Apple an obscene amount of money
           | to do it and keep your warranty, although you'd have to use
           | their RAM.
        
             | quesera wrote:
             | > So you have to disassemble the machine at the expense of
             | your warranty.
             | 
             | If you are in the US, this is not correct. It's a common
             | misunderstanding, which probably makes manufacturers happy,
             | but it is not true.
             | 
             | Disassembling your product does not violate your warranty
             | -- even if you have to puncture a (very un-Apple-like)
             | sticker that says "VOID IF REMOVED OR DAMAGED", etc.
             | 
             | However: _damaging_ your product via disassembly, or
             | anything else, allows the warrantor (Apple) to choose not
             | to honor their warranty _if the damage is directly related
             | to the issue being repaired under warranty_.
             | 
             | But if you cause no damage, or if the damage is cosmetic or
             | unrelated to the warranteed part, you are free to do as you
             | like. And so is a third-party repair shop.
        
           | danlugo92 wrote:
           | Get the laptop and hook it up to an external monitor or get
           | the mac mini
        
             | mgkimsal wrote:
             | I'm not a great early adopter :). I will probably get
             | something later this year assuming there's a second round
             | of hardware (m1x? m2?) updates.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I'm interested in seeing what the next iteration of
               | laptops is like. I have an iMac and MacBook Pro which are
               | both over 5 years old and it would be nice to upgrade
               | both to a new ARM laptop even if it's a bit less travel
               | friendly than my current system. (I usually travel with
               | my Chromebook anyway.)
        
         | thitcanh wrote:
         | Yeah, a quarter of the price, a quarter of the screen, a
         | quarter of the RAM, a quarter of the SSD. Of course the price
         | is also a quarter. The CPU isn't the only part of that
         | ludicrous $5000 price point
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | >Right now they shouldn't be selling anything that isn't an M1
         | or some other Apple Silicon.
         | 
         | A lot of companies are still providing employees with Intel
         | MacBooks. I know mine doesn't have M1 variants in the line yet.
         | The reality is that IT cares a lot more about support effort
         | than they are about providing employees with the latest and
         | greatest. You can't really blame them.
        
       | kristianp wrote:
       | Does that mean/imply an Apple Silicon imac is about 3 months
       | away?
        
       | S_A_P wrote:
       | Bought the base iMac Pro right around release time. Still does
       | everything I need at the moment. I pretty much have it maxed out
       | with about 19 USB cables running off of it(synthisizers, midi
       | interfaces, external drives, software dongles, 13 port hub) they
       | add up. I dont ever hear the fan, and it can do full 24-48 track
       | multi track audio + Plugins with no sweat. That said, in 3 more
       | years I suspect it will get an M1 based replacement.
        
         | SllX wrote:
         | I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an exact replacement, but
         | an M-series iMac might still be a good replacement.
         | 
         | Apple announced a two year transition time from x86_64 to Apple
         | Silicon. The MacBook Air, Mac Mini and 13" MacBook Pro have
         | made the jump. That leaves the Mac Pro, 16" MacBook Pro, the
         | 21.5" iMac and 27" iMac left to make the jump or otherwise be
         | discontinued.
        
       | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
       | Hetzner just hiked their dedicated server prices +20%, after not
       | being able to satisfy demand for some time.
        
         | dgellow wrote:
         | How is that related to the shared article?
        
       | vondur wrote:
       | You also can't order any custom Intel iMacs too. The new models
       | should be out shortly.
        
         | hampelm wrote:
         | Looks like 27" are still customizable, but not 21.5" (US)
        
           | vondur wrote:
           | I was told by our Rep we can no longer get the 512 SSD on a
           | 27" custom order.
        
       | neallindsay wrote:
       | I think the iMac Pro was originally supposed to replace the Mac
       | Pro after the trash can proved insufficient. Eventually Apple
       | realized that it wasn't expandable enough to satisfy some of
       | their most high-end users so they made the current Mac Pro. Now
       | that that exists, the iMac Pro is squeezed by the tower Mac Pro
       | and normal iMacs--so it makes sense to drop the iMac Pro as the
       | Arm iMacs near production.
        
         | ArmandGrillet wrote:
         | Apple clearly detailed their strategy back in early 2017:
         | https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/06/transcript-phil-schiller-c...
         | 
         | "As part of doing a new Mac Pro -- it is, by definition, a
         | modular system -- we will be doing a pro display as well. Now
         | you won't see any of those products this year; we're in the
         | process of that. We think it's really important to create
         | something great for our pro customers who want a Mac Pro
         | modular system, and that'll take longer than this year to do."
         | 
         | The Mac Pro and XDR display were machines that took a long time
         | to build thus the iMac Pro (announced 6 months after that
         | article) was created to fill the gap for two years. I don't
         | think the iMac Pro was ever supposed to replace the Mac Pro,
         | but only a biography of Schiller might clarify what really
         | happened.
        
           | baybal2 wrote:
           | I think it just boils down to future ARM Macs having tiny
           | TDP, and being full SoC based.
           | 
           | Makes no sense to have a 20*50*50 box if the only part inside
           | it is a tiny 8*8 PCB.
        
           | tonyedgecombe wrote:
           | _announced 6 months after that article_
           | 
           | It must have been in development for much longer than that.
        
             | unicornfinder wrote:
             | To be fair I suspect Apple was aware of the problem long
             | before they made the announcement to that effect.
             | 
             | I remember at the time people were saying how un-Apple-like
             | it was to admit that there was an issue at all. I think it
             | was because at that point they figured the iMac Pro was
             | still six months out and they felt they had to at least do
             | *something* to show them that they still cared about pro
             | users, though in truth I think in hindsight it's become
             | evident that it isn't really a market segment that they're
             | particularly interested in.
        
               | headmelted wrote:
               | Oh they're very interested.
               | 
               | Serving the professional creative market is the core of
               | their marketing.
               | 
               | Are they selling a majority of MacBook Pro's to film
               | studios? Of course not, but they need that prestige to
               | compel Greg the aspiring film student to buy one so he
               | can feel like he has "arrived".
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | MacBook Pro is dirt cheap compared to the desktop Pro;
               | it's not what were discussing here.
        
               | mikepurvis wrote:
               | > I think in hindsight it's become evident that it isn't
               | really a market segment that they're particularly
               | interested in.
               | 
               | Really? The volume may not be there, but I think Apple
               | has always cherished the prestige associated with being
               | the platform of choice for studio mixing rooms, cinema
               | production, etc. People argued that that's why those
               | ridiculous $20k+ configurations of the Mac Pro even
               | exist-- as something for auteurs to demand as a status
               | signal.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | While I agree, Apple's interest in satisfying those "pro"
               | audiences is waning, as is the interest in the pros to
               | continue using their products. Apple has realized that
               | it's much easier to market themselves where talent and
               | personality intersect; aka, "the pro-sumer". For every
               | Mac Pro they sell, they sell another thousand iPhones and
               | a hundred Macbooks. Long-term, it makes much more sense
               | for them to optimize around these audiences.
               | 
               | With that being said, I've noticed a startling increase
               | in Linux use among pro workflows. The other day I visited
               | a mixing studio that was entirely driven by Arch and
               | Reaper if you could believe it, a really neat setup to
               | say the least.
        
               | habitue wrote:
               | The pro-sumer play sort of relies on them plausibly
               | having a reputation for creating things for actual
               | professionals. Over time, as that residual reputation
               | burns off, seems like it may become less effective.
        
               | Kye wrote:
               | Are you able to name the studio? Now I'm curious about
               | what they're up to since it's exactly the kind of
               | Frankenstein setup that appeals to me. Bitwig is an odd
               | backup to Reaper considering it's a completely different
               | target workflow. It's aiming at Live and made by ex-
               | Ableton devs. Reaper is more like Pro Tools or Cubase.
        
               | theonemind wrote:
               | Actually, I'd characterize that as short term thinking.
               | Your platform needs developers, and the power users and
               | such eventually lead the rest of the market.
               | 
               | If they think they've got a castle in the sky, they'll
               | find out why it's there if they start burning the pillars
               | as firewood.
        
               | jbverschoor wrote:
               | Don't forget that store became big again when they used
               | bsd on OS X. It was a perfect dev machine
        
               | mikepurvis wrote:
               | What is the frontend in a setup like that? Is it Pro
               | Tools on Wine, or something else?
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | To my understanding, they mapped all of the CC bindings
               | from their digital mixer into Reaper and then routed the
               | audio through JACK. They had a double monitor setup that
               | seemed to be running a pretty standard Reaper setup (with
               | Bitwig as an optional backup), as well as a smaller
               | integrated monitor in the dashboard of the mixing console
               | (which must have been running a custom UI). They were
               | hooked up to a pretty sizable NAS, and they made a pretty
               | large emphasis on separating project files from the OS.
               | It seemed like the secret to their workflow was weekly
               | backups of the OS partition with redundancy for the
               | mission-critical components. Their round-trip latency was
               | also pretty impressive, with less than 10ms for software
               | sources and 30ms for hardware sources. All of it was
               | running on an older Threadripper workstation.
        
               | Blueskytech wrote:
               | Just FYI 30ms from hardware sources is terrible, I can
               | achieve under 2.5ms round trip with Dante at 128 buffer
               | settings and the older MADI protocol achieves similar
               | levels.
        
               | washadjeffmad wrote:
               | What am I missing? Those numbers are an order of
               | magnitude higher than I got with a similar Linux studio
               | setup in 2008. We get 30-40ms latency over IP within
               | about 100 miles.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I have a 27" iMac and a 13" MacBook Pro, both of which are
         | about 5 years old. I'm definitely holding on to see what comes
         | down the road with Apple Silicon. I really don't like the idea
         | of getting another iMac; it seems such a waste given that there
         | is absolutely nothing wrong with my current display but the
         | computer itself is getting long in the tooth for photo and
         | video work.
        
           | mobilio wrote:
           | And you are not alone...
        
       | minimaxir wrote:
       | FWIW I got the latest 27in iMac when it released last August and
       | it fits all my needs (Plus I did want the Boot Camp support).
       | Granted, if we knew M1 and Rosetta was going to be this good I
       | may have reconsidered.
       | 
       | That said I may get the rumored 14in MacBook Pro with an M1X as
       | well.
        
       | hit8run wrote:
       | I'm still enjoying my iMac Pro day to day. Thought about selling
       | it but there is no equivalent..
        
       | ssijak wrote:
       | I would be so happy if Apple releases a mac midi with M
       | processor, 16-64gb configurable ram, swappable disks.
        
       | rafaelturk wrote:
       | Hopefully it will be superseded by a iMac Pro powered by M2, M3,
       | MX processor generations
        
         | akritrime wrote:
         | If both iMac and iMac Pro are powered by the same chip, then
         | what would be the differentiating factor between them?
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Perhaps the iMac Pro could run TWO of the chips somehow.
        
             | protomyth wrote:
             | Well, I would expect that might be an option depending on
             | what powers the Mac Pro going forward. I wonder if Apple is
             | at the multi-CPU stage. I am expecting external RAM and I
             | hope ECC for the next Mac Pro.
        
           | weego wrote:
           | I'd imagine you'd get a similar situation to the ipads where
           | the X chip is far superior in the same gen eg:
           | 
           | iMac - m2 chip + max out at 64 gig ram
           | 
           | iMac Pro - m2x chip + max out at 256 gig ram
        
             | akritrime wrote:
             | Hmm the X Chip difference makes sense, because they are the
             | same chip with the regular one built to be mobile. But in
             | case of M2, the same distinction doesn't make sense because
             | they are built for larger devices by default. Though I
             | guess, they could have two completely separate chips and
             | just use the X as convention.
        
               | djrogers wrote:
               | You're arguing about naming conventions for a product
               | that hasn't been released, and where names are all
               | speculative. What you think is an m1x may be called an
               | m2, or a m2x or a dp2fgh.
        
           | kelp wrote:
           | I'd imagine the pro would have a better screen. Intended for
           | professional creative work.
        
             | akritrime wrote:
             | Oh yeah, that could be it. Apple's Pro Display XDR with an
             | ARM processor would be interesting, though the question is
             | are the M SoCs ready to drive those yet?
        
               | whynotminot wrote:
               | They already do.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | tempfs wrote:
           | More graphics power in the form of a discrete GPU, more
           | storage and memory offered...etc.
           | 
           | With memory and storage soldered ofcourse...as is tradition.
        
             | akritrime wrote:
             | Hmm, the discrete GPU would be interesting, but I don't
             | think would go back to that. The SoC model has been working
             | out great for Apple, I can't see them seceding control to
             | get a discrete 3rd-party GPU working.
        
               | nicoburns wrote:
               | > I can't see them seceding control to get a discrete
               | 3rd-party GPU working.
               | 
               | Nobody said the discrete GPU would be 3rd party. I
               | suspect Apple will release their own discrete GPU before
               | long. SoC works well for the long end, but I can't see it
               | being worth it at the Mac Pro level.
        
               | akritrime wrote:
               | That's also true. They already made some kind of add-on
               | card for the Mac Pro, right?
        
               | dagmx wrote:
               | Yes the AfterBurner card for acceleration of ProRes
               | content
        
       | lanevorockz wrote:
       | Apple lost touch with their clients, it became the large
       | tyrannical IBM that Steve Jobs hated so much. Companies always
       | suffer when their quintessential soul is lost. Business schools
       | should learn from Elon Musk and drop the middle manager /
       | politically correct agenda. Be what you want to be, not what
       | society forces you to be.
        
         | ericlewis wrote:
         | Why do you say that?
        
       | _the_inflator wrote:
       | > I'm guessing their experiments with scaling up what's in the
       | initial M1-based Macs to more power vs. just maximum efficiency
       | (for instance, a desktop that doesn't need to get 20 hour battery
       | life and can actively cool itself) are turning out so shocking
       | that they know they've got to kill the current product line,
       | immediately.
       | 
       | I totally agree. I believe this is the only reason, why Apple
       | "upgraded" the MacBook pro 13". The new MacBook Air smashed it,
       | so Apple had to do something in the 13" range.
       | 
       | MacBook 16" has the distinctive advantage of a better screen.
       | 
       | I am totally excited about Apple's new MacBook lineup coming
       | later this year. This is going to be really huge.
        
         | kalleboo wrote:
         | > _MacBook 16 " has the distinctive advantage of a better
         | screen._
         | 
         | Even the MacBook Pro 16" base models have too many ports and
         | too much graphic performance for the original M1 to replace
         | them. The base 13" already had enough limitations that they
         | could replace it without making any of its specs worse (and
         | leave the existing Intel 13" in the range with no changes for
         | the 4-port model)
        
       | nanofortnight wrote:
       | Clickbait.
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | Good riddance - pro's do not want a computer that cannot be
       | divorced of its display.
        
         | BossingAround wrote:
         | Then I suspect you won't be happy with the 27-inch iMac that's
         | replacing the iMac Pro either :).
        
         | Tagbert wrote:
         | Your idea of "pros" may be a little narrow. I know programmers
         | and video producers who are definitely pros and definitely use
         | an iMac Pro all in one.
         | 
         | Not that I don't see the benefit of a modular system, and it
         | makes sense for some pros, but not all.
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | I guess to increase profit, they're going to push pro users into
       | the "tower"
        
         | protomyth wrote:
         | I was guessing that we are seeing a simplification of the Mac
         | lineup because the variety of processors available is going to
         | be constrained. Right now we have the M1 and I would expect and
         | M1X or M2 coming up. I don't think they will have the part
         | count Intel has had.
        
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