[HN Gopher] Military Unit Conducting Drone Strikes Bought Locati...
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       Military Unit Conducting Drone Strikes Bought Location Data from
       Ordinary Apps
        
       Author : DyslexicAtheist
       Score  : 109 points
       Date   : 2021-03-06 14:56 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.vice.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.vice.com)
        
       | rasengan wrote:
       | Moral: If anything can be used against you, the adversary who
       | will use it against you can get it and use it against you.
        
         | Threeve303 wrote:
         | This happens with domestic law enforcement as well. During the
         | lockdown there were several articles about federal agencies
         | relying on private companies for location data. It says
         | something that both the military and federal government have
         | been outmatched in their tracking abilities by silicon valley.
        
           | nonameiguess wrote:
           | They're not even remotely close to outmatched. The difference
           | is the IC and the military can't collect intelligence inside
           | of the United States. They're perfectly well allowed to use
           | commercial and public data, though.
        
           | xxpor wrote:
           | I wouldn't assume that's unintentional. The Feds probably
           | love having that level of indirection built in. Eases warrent
           | requirements, and you don't get news headlines about
           | government trackers in your devices.
        
             | bongoman37 wrote:
             | I used to work for a company that sold location tracking
             | data. It was amazing how cheap this data is and how many
             | sources you can collect it from. We would buy data from 3rd
             | party sources and often have our own data sold back to us,
             | sometimes straight up, and sometimes after randomization
             | added to avoid exact matches. We had a whole system built
             | to compare incoming data against our own data to make sure
             | that we weren't having too much of our own data being sold
             | to us.
        
             | Proziam wrote:
             | I take a more extreme view. My confidence that it is
             | absolutely intentional and that significant planning went
             | in to arrive at this point is in the region of 99%.
        
             | virtue3 wrote:
             | why waste resources when people -voluntarily- give their
             | info up? It would make no logical sense.
             | 
             | If the damn thing is free, you're the product :/
        
       | Proziam wrote:
       | I wonder how much time and effort went in from the side of
       | government to arrive at a point where they can manipulate the
       | free market to help them kill people.
       | 
       | Other users have rightly pointed that getting this support from
       | outside sources eases their legal burdens both domestically and
       | abroad. It just seems wrong that a government can bypass its own
       | checks and balances in this way. It violates the principles it
       | was founded on.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | Apart from the other issues discussed here: what about false
       | positives?
       | 
       | In the advertising case the cost of a false positive is a
       | misplaced ad. In the case of a military strike the cost is
       | getting the wrong person.
       | 
       | Plus the level of security on a commercial product is lower (the
       | risk of losing data is simply an insurable cost). So that false
       | positive could be deliberate insertion of bogus data. If I wanted
       | to get rid of a rival I could pay to have ID info for someone the
       | US doesn't like inserted into the rival's home or workplace.
       | Boom!
        
         | ChrisLomont wrote:
         | I'd doubt the military launched a lethal strike based solely on
         | phone info. More likely this info helps locate a person and
         | then they're identified by more than a geo tag.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | One can hope, but I'm not so sanguine.
        
       | MikeUt wrote:
       | Don't worry about ad tracking - nothing similar could happen
       | _here_! All the intelligence gathered on you will be used only
       | for more relevant ads, guaranteed.
       | 
       | Your employer, the police, military, school system, insurance
       | companies, industry conglomerates, and foreign or domestic
       | governments, won't get or abuse any of it.
        
       | ddevault wrote:
       | This is it. This is the end-game of the dragnet surveillance work
       | that employs a significant population of Hacker News.
       | 
       | You have literally turned cell phones into an informant which is
       | used to fucking _murder_ the user.
       | 
       | You are complicit in this.
        
         | 1996 wrote:
         | This, so much. People were getting icky a few years ago when I
         | said I was working in crypto, as it if was below what a geek
         | should aspire to - but it felt so much better than the
         | alternative: I was providing something people were asking for,
         | nothing else. There was no ads or engagement issues.
         | 
         | I feel sad for all the people who have golden handcuffs
         | (vesting, lifestyle) at a FANG job, basically selling dopamine
         | hits and eyeball time - up to enabling murder in this case.
         | 
         | I have very little morals on principles. I copied mine from
         | someone I know: I will not work for the mob / organized crime
         | ie what use violence against people, and that is true in all of
         | its extensions: so that includes the government, the military,
         | and any company that is deeply involved in business with them.
         | 
         | Highly suggested for personal happiness!
        
           | yowlingcat wrote:
           | Appreciate this perspective. There are a lot of issues with
           | the space of crypto that I can think of, but the truth is
           | (especially with the past year or two), it's increasingly one
           | of the few spaces that holds some kind of positive hope for
           | technology which I can think of. I'm considering moving into
           | the space myself, workwise.
           | 
           | Are there any complaints you have about the space compared to
           | other spaces you've worked in? It seems like you're pretty
           | happy in the medium to long-term with your decision, which I
           | think says a lot.
        
           | ChrisLomont wrote:
           | Lots of crypto burns incredible amounts of electricity,
           | adding to climate change, which also will lead to a lot of
           | deaths. Maybe lots of tech is nuanced.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | yowlingcat wrote:
             | Okay, well let's engage that nuance then. Is that climate
             | change intrinsic to the concept of crypto or just an
             | implementation detail? Conversely, is addiction intrinsic
             | to the concept of engagement optimization, or just an
             | implementation detail?
             | 
             | You could theoretically make arguments both ways, but I
             | think that practically speaking, high burn is an
             | implementation detail for crypto (and one that's actively
             | being deprecated) whereas addiction is an indelible part of
             | the concept of engagement optimization.
        
         | hindsightbias wrote:
         | Whether you're a target for an ad or JADM, it's all the same to
         | these people.
        
       | upofadown wrote:
       | A good reminder that allowing unrestrained commercial
       | exploitation of personal data can have serious repercussions.
        
       | dzhiurgis wrote:
       | Military found a way to save your money. Citizens enraged.
       | 
       | p.s. I'm sure it's not as simple as ordering pizza for someone as
       | bin laden get's them swatted with tomahawk missile.
        
       | drummer wrote:
       | Librem 5. Purism needs to get the supplies up faster
        
         | pas wrote:
         | Doesn't mean much if folks just install all the BestFreeApp and
         | TorchApp and FreePrayerApp on it, which then proceeds to spy on
         | them in real-time.
        
       | srswtf123 wrote:
       | Sure seems like its past time to put down the smartphones, close
       | the social media accounts, and be done with as much of this
       | garbage as possible.
       | 
       | I've got myself down to < 20 minutes of screen time on my
       | smartphone, daily. Now to see if I can make it the final
       | distance, and be free.
        
         | nine_k wrote:
         | Do you just print out everything you want to read from the web?
        
           | srswtf123 wrote:
           | I sit down at a desktop, and do what I must there.
           | 
           | Edit: To be honest, I made this reply from my phone. I'm as
           | addicted as anyone to these devices, and its why I've put so
           | much effort into curtailing my usage. Edited from a desktop
           | :)
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-06 23:02 UTC)