[HN Gopher] U.S. says John McAfee indicted over fraudulent crypt...
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U.S. says John McAfee indicted over fraudulent cryptocurrency
schemes
Author : pseudolus
Score : 93 points
Date : 2021-03-05 17:40 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
| CPLX wrote:
| Actual Justice Department announcement also posted, here:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26359775
| naturalpb wrote:
| I'm glad someone is finally holding John McAfee accountable. A
| bet is a bet. Thank you DOJ! Will it be livestreamed?
|
| https://jacobedawson.github.io/dickening/
| airstrike wrote:
| The hot dog emoji is what really makes this special
| [deleted]
| alacombe wrote:
| meaning: they couldn't bust him on anything else, so they slapped
| him bs charges... might have gone for good old "security fraud"
| or "wire fraud".
| htkyoholk wrote:
| He also frauded us on that dinner he promised and didn't deliver.
| evgen wrote:
| If you had asked me several years ago when McAfee returned to our
| general awareness I would not have guessed that this would be
| what he was going to next be indicted for...
| CobrastanJorji wrote:
| This would've been in my top 5, and it would've been the least
| wacky of those five.
|
| Either way, I would not have been money against John McAfee
| being indicted for at least something.
| a1369209993 wrote:
| > and it would've been the least wacky of those five.
|
| Okay, I'll bite: what are the other four?
| axaxs wrote:
| Not OP but Ill share my bingo board.
|
| Murder
|
| Statutory Rape/sex tourism
|
| Numerous drug violations
|
| Tax evasion
| cwkoss wrote:
| I forget which country (I think Belize?), but McAfee has
| previously claimed to have donated malware-infected
| laptops to a government that was trying to prosecute him
| so he was able to watch as they were investigating him,
| and in the process discovered some sort of political
| corruption crime ring.
|
| He's not a very reliable source, but pretty interesting
| if true.
| axaxs wrote:
| It's interesting but I don't believe anything the guy
| says. I do believe the scores of underage central
| american women that claim he made them sit in a poop
| swing, however. He denies it, but it's just too weird of
| a thing for multiple unrelated sources to come up with.
|
| McAfee may have one time been a genius, I really don't
| know much about him other than his namesake. I do know
| everything I remember him claiming in the past decade or
| so seems to have turned out to be something like
| vaporware or outright fraud.
| [deleted]
| medium_burrito wrote:
| I want John McAfee to be my spirit animal
| strikelaserclaw wrote:
| His twitter profile has JoJo references. Wonder if he genuinely
| enjoys the show or is meming his way into manipulation (i think
| the latter is the case with alot of these guys who act like
| "fellow kids")
| dominotw wrote:
| JoJo isn't "fellow kids"
| bitdizzy wrote:
| JoJo has been a hit manga series since the 80's
| mcraiha wrote:
| "McAfee is being detained in Spain on separate criminal charges
| filed by the Justice Department's tax division, the department
| said." How many times has McAfee left USA and returned because he
| has been charged of a crime?
| giarc wrote:
| From the Axios article [1], "He also fled his home in Belize in
| 2012 and became a fugitive in a murder case."
|
| https://www.axios.com/john-mcafee-indicted-cryptocurrency-ce...
| dfsegoat wrote:
| Yes. I know someone that knew the victim on the island.
| McAfee is really who is suspected by the local community,
| because they had frequent disagreements about property
| boundaries, if memory serves.
|
| Funny aside, McAfee also donated a bunch of malware infected
| laptops to the Belizean Govt and police force:
|
| https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/01/07/john-mcafee-
| infe...
| filoleg wrote:
| >McAfee is really who is suspected by the local community,
| because they had frequent disagreements about property
| boundaries
|
| I have recently watched a documentary on him, and it goes
| even beyond that. One of the people in his entourage was a
| known local gang member (just like majority of people in
| McAfee's entourage), and he was seen leaving the residence
| of the murdered person on the night of the murder occurring
| at the time after the murder has already happened iirc.
| They had interviews with that person too, and he pretty
| much said as much as one can say to admit they did it
| without actually admitting it.
| duskwuff wrote:
| > Funny aside, McAfee also donated a bunch of malware
| infected laptops to the Belizean Govt and police force
|
| It's even worse than you make it sound. He _planted remote
| access software on the laptops so he could spy on the
| police_. This isn 't just a couple of copies of Bonzi Buddy
| we're talking about here.
| vkou wrote:
| This is amazing chutzpah, and I hope that it ends up a
| minor plot point in the next Neal Stephenson novel.
| mc32 wrote:
| Yeah I'm not sure about that one. I'm sure he wasn't squeaky
| clean, but it looks like they framed him on that one.
| Igelau wrote:
| Him, Hans Reiser, Ugueth Urbina are somehow all the same person
| in my memory. I get their details mixed up a lot.
| chewbaxxa wrote:
| I guess they should go ahead and indict Musk and the rest of
| crypto Twitter too then.
| giarc wrote:
| Do you have to complete the "dump" side to be guilty? Does Musk
| still own all his bitcoin/dogecoins he's purchased? I believe
| Tesla still owns their $1.5b worth of bitcoins.
| vntok wrote:
| Yes you do.
| datavirtue wrote:
| I sense another SEC investigation brewing for Musk. There was a
| lot of shady shit going on with Doge and bitcoin and Tesla.
| Coupled with his Twitter posts on the subject I would not be
| surprised if they are gearing up right now. An arrest would not
| shock me in the least.
| [deleted]
| vkou wrote:
| It's not clear that yelling 'buy crypto, crypto is great' while
| buying crypto is illegal.
|
| It's not even clear that yelling 'buy crypto, crypto is great'
| while selling crypto is. Bitcoin isn't really a security, and
| the rules for commodities and currencies are different from
| those for securities.
| neilv wrote:
| > _McAfee and Watson allegedly engaged in a scheme to exploit
| the "broad reach" of McAfee's Twitter account by buying
| cryptocurrency assets, concealing a plan to liquidate them and
| then selling most quickly after his endorsements boosted
| prices, the CFTC said in a court document filed on Friday._
|
| Hopefully this enforcement action will put a damper on some of
| the many apparent investment schemes around cryptocurrencies.
| At least ones within reach of US regulators.
| ketamine__ wrote:
| There is still time to indict Musk. It could happen.
| EGreg wrote:
| Seems it doesn't matter how long it has been since a sale
| occurred.
|
| https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN28J2UL
|
| This one in particular would hurt the very investors SEC is
| supposed to be protecting:
|
| https://www.coindesk.com/xrp-untradeable-sec-security?amp=1
| ketamine__ wrote:
| So we should let scams continue because it hurts current
| investors? Sounds very disingenuous.
| vntok wrote:
| What scam are you talking about, exactly?
| tablespoon wrote:
| > I guess they should go ahead and indict Musk and the rest of
| crypto Twitter too then.
|
| Maybe they will, but it'll probably be a few years. This
| indictment is for activity in 2018.
|
| https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/john-david-mcafee-and-e...
| gzer0 wrote:
| This situation is quite different than that of Tesla and Elon
| Musk.
|
| 1. Mcafee was an individual that pumped the price and sold his
| position for realized gains.
|
| 2. Tesla is a publicly traded company, which made all of the
| regulatory and legal filings necessary for the purchase of
| their crypto.
|
| 3. Tesla has no forseeable plans to exit their position.
|
| 4. This article isn't telling the entire story. Mcafee was also
| indicted for Tax evasion, which Elon Musk nor Tesla are
| committing.
|
| [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/john-mcafee-indicted-tax-
| evas...
| ChainOfFools wrote:
| Musk pumped Dogecoin as a joke to prime media radar for
| Tesla's bitcoin purchase disclosure.
|
| It was in effect a bitcoin pump with dogecoin as a media
| lure, which given Musk's ability to command attention was
| nearly as effective e (for TSLA) as pumping bitcoin directly,
| but without breaking any SEC rules.
| gamblor956 wrote:
| Right, but a "pump and dump" scheme requires two things
| which Tesla/Musk did not do: make knowingly false
| statements of fact about Dogecoin or Bitcoin, and a "dump"
| of the assets at inflated values (as it appears that
| Tesla/Musk still retain their previously announced Bitcoin
| holdings).
| Arubis wrote:
| "Without breaking any SEC rules" seems like a perfectly
| good reason not to indict.
| EGreg wrote:
| So when they DO make forseeable plans and execute those plans
| to sell, then it will have happened "after" they pumped BTC.
| How long should a company hold before a pump and dump become
| fine?
| emteycz wrote:
| What pump and dump are you talking about?
| EGreg wrote:
| Pump = buy a lot of something so the price goes up. Let's
| say $2 billion of it
|
| <wait for more people to buy it as a result of the price
| movement, and news, etc.>
|
| Dump = sell at the higher prices and match the increased
| demand
|
| This is whats being advocated by market analysts, and it
| would be considered "fine":
| https://www.benzinga.com/analyst-ratings/analyst-
| color/21/03...
|
| If companies don't collude but do it in a sequence, then
| when does it become ok?
|
| As a different example, in 2014 employees alleged that
| Silicon Valley companies colluded to depress their wages,
| by acting like a cartel:
|
| https://equitablegrowth.org/aftermath-wage-collusion-
| silicon...
|
| But cartels can form without having to collude, merely by
| people acting in concert on a meme or belief (like HODL
| or SQUEEZE THE SQUOZE) and this seems fine!
|
| https://arxiv.org/abs/1201.3798
| gamblor956 wrote:
| A pump and dump scheme requires that the "pump" be
| achieved by making fraudulent representations about the
| assets being "pumped" to artificially increase their
| value, followed by said assets being offloaded at the
| artificially increased value.
|
| McAfee did that all of that. Tesla/Musk did not (no false
| statements _of fact_ or offloading at artificially
| inflated values).
|
| Additionally, a "cartel" has a legal definition which
| _requires_ deliberate coordination of activity (aka
| "collusion"). Independent activity in which everyone does
| the same thing without coordination is not a cartel,
| because the _coordination_ aspect of it is key to the
| illegality of the act.
| EGreg wrote:
| So a group of people pumping a cryptocurrency by buying
| it, and then letting the skyrocketing charts in exchanges
| and news about it bring new people into the mix, and then
| selling, is totally fine? Even if this group of people
| coordinates their activities?
| vntok wrote:
| As you wrote it, yes it is completely fine.
| EGreg wrote:
| Please back that up with links to a legal argument or
| SOMETHING. I realize it's hard to prove a negative but
| can you at least back it up with authoritative links of
| some sort?
| gzer0 wrote:
| "According to the indictment, McAfee allegedly evaded his
| tax liability by directing his income to be paid into bank
| accounts and cryptocurrency exchange accounts in the names
| of nominees."
|
| John Mcafee was breaking US law and got caught.
| wongarsu wrote:
| You wait until your previous comments don't have an
| outsized effect on the market price anymore.
| mnouquet wrote:
| > 4. This article isn't telling the entire story. Mcafee was
| also indicted for Tax evasion, which Elon Musk nor Tesla are
| committing.
|
| They probably are, but neither Tesla or Musk are in the
| Governments / Deep State crooshair, quite the opposite
| actually, they the modern times poster Stakhanovites.
| Nasrudith wrote:
| I know Musk isn't exactly conventionally sane and tends to
| be erratic but tax evasion while trying to surplant big oil
| and muscling in on the auto industry, and grabbing space
| launche business from Russia would be a downright /stupid/
| move.
| mnouquet wrote:
| You cannot reach the level Musk has reach without using
| all the tools to reach these levels, including tax
| evasions... with the complicit agreement of many "people
| in power". It just happens their interest coincide today,
| tomorrow's another day, interest shifts.
| ianhawes wrote:
| I know you're being downvoted for the deep state comment,
| but for the most part you are correct: Federal Prosecutors
| routinely target high profile individuals and those that
| receive negative press.
| codys wrote:
| Musk is incredibly high profile and regularly receives
| negative press.
| mnouquet wrote:
| > I know you're being downvoted for the deep state
| comment,
|
| Meh, business as usual on HN. Many wanna-be Stakhanovites
| drinking the Kool-Aid.
| r721 wrote:
| What about tweets like "Dogecoin is the people's crypto"?
|
| https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1357241340313141249
| Nasrudith wrote:
| It is a bit of understated wit of a backhanded compliment
| given its value is so low everybody can afford it. A
| massive surge in value is going to over five cents per
| coin. Of course ironically that makes it a better actual
| currency instead of a speculation vehicle in spite of being
| easily mineable by design.
| intotheabyss wrote:
| Did Musk dump a bunch of Doge on people? I think that's the
| big difference.
| stickac wrote:
| Do you know he did not?
| bhupy wrote:
| I don't think anyone does, but in America one is innocent
| until proven guilty and not the other way around.
| nickik wrote:
| Are you accusing him based on no evidence or what is your
| point her? Of course he doesn't have prove that something
| didn't happen.
| redis_mlc wrote:
| > fraudulent cryptocurrency schemes
|
| Is there any other kind?
| arrftr wrote:
| nobody saw this coming </sarcasm>
| cryptica wrote:
| If using your 'reputation' to hype up projects for personal
| profit is illegal, then they ought to lock up every tech
| executive on the planet. That said, I wouldn't complain if they
| did...
|
| Executive salaries and bonuses are almost 100% based on name
| recognition... Which is mostly hype backed by nothing. Exactly
| the same as in this case. There is absolutely no difference.
| aurelius12 wrote:
| Random retail investors aren't being scammed in that situation.
| It's completely different.
| hsnewman wrote:
| This shows that social online networks are really
| advertising/propaganda networks which can be used to manipulate
| unaware people. Misuse by these and other sociopath's needs some
| type of governmental control.
| alacombe wrote:
| Privatization of Propaganda by Governments ?
| Nasrudith wrote:
| So are tongues for that matter. Just look at the damage they
| have caused historically from lynchings after false rape
| allegations to wars.
|
| Saying they need to be controlled applies equally to tongues
| logically - it being inborn changes nothing about the negative
| uses.
| shiado wrote:
| Does the US have jurisdiction here or is the Southern District
| just playing Team America World Police again? Is using Twitter
| the new precedent for being ensnared by the American legal
| system?
| pcwalton wrote:
| If you use services located in the US to defraud Americans, the
| US can come after you. There is nothing wrong with this. If I
| were a victim of such a fraud, I would certainly want the US to
| go after the perpetrator.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _Does the US have jurisdiction here_
|
| He was detained on tax evasion charges. So yes, the U.S. has
| pretty uncontroversial jurisdiction over taxes owed to it.
| filoleg wrote:
| >Is using Twitter the new precedent for being ensnared by the
| American legal system?
|
| No, but intentionally not paying tons of taxes you are required
| to pay is something that will definitely put your head on the
| table. If IRS managed to get Al Capone back then, getting
| McAfee for it should be fairly trivial.
| driverdan wrote:
| Assuming he's still a US citizen then US laws apply regardless
| of where he is. Just because he's outside the US doesn't mean
| he can break US laws.
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