[HN Gopher] Nvidia Deep Learning Accelerator (NVDLA): free open ...
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       Nvidia Deep Learning Accelerator (NVDLA): free open inference
       accelerator (2017)
        
       Author : my123
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2021-03-05 17:13 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (nvdla.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (nvdla.org)
        
       | justicezyx wrote:
       | A componentized DL inference hardware library + compiler suite +
       | inference runtime. Overall already appears a solid foundation for
       | a production system ATM. Another example of nVidia's unchallenged
       | prowess in DL software ecosystem.
       | 
       | The hardware design library could be seen as a prominent example
       | of "software defined hardware". Specifically, the compnentized
       | hardware library dissects DL inference into 4 high-level
       | operations: convolution, pooling, activation, normalization.
       | Hardware description code is provided for these 4 operations.
       | Allowing practitioners to tailor their chip design to their
       | application. For instance, one could remove an operation from the
       | chip, and adjust the size and throughput of any one operation.
       | 
       | Software: compiler suite, and runtime are provided for building
       | and running actual DL models. Compiler suite also operate based
       | on the 4 operations, and produce an IR format that models around
       | the operations; and then optimized towards the target chip.
       | Runtime include kernel module and user space driver to handle the
       | setup of the chip runtime and accept user request of loading
       | model and inference requests.
       | 
       | 2 questions I did not find explicit answer:
       | 
       | * Is there an inference-aware training capability?
       | 
       | * Does the compiler suite also consider the actual hardware spec
       | during its optimization?
        
       | halotrope wrote:
       | Is there any information on how to source components outside
       | Nvidias Jetson ecosystem? It would be interesting to be able to
       | buy such chip individually for e.g. embedded projects but there
       | seem no vendors listed. Considering the DLA project is not
       | particularly new I wonder if it will remain a niche appliance on
       | Nvidias boards.
        
       | sradman wrote:
       | NVDLA [1] targets IoT devices:
       | 
       | > NVDLA is available for product development as part of NVIDIA's
       | Jetson Xavier NX, a small circuit board in a form factor about
       | the size of a credit card which includes a 6-core ARMv8.2 64-bit
       | CPU, an integrated 384-core Volta GPU with 48 Tensor Cores, and
       | dual NVDLA "engines", as described in their own press release.
       | NVIDIA claims the product will deliver 14 TOPS (tera operations
       | per second) of compute under 10 W, but most of this likely comes
       | from the GPU cores. Applications broadly include edge computing
       | inference engines, including object recognition for autonomous
       | driving.
       | 
       | > NVIDIA's involvement with open hardware includes the use of
       | RISC-V processors as part of their GPU product line-up.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NVDLA
        
         | my123 wrote:
         | The BeagleV (https://beagleboard.org/beaglev) also has an NVDLA
         | in the SoC. (1 core w/ 2048 MACs at 800MHz)
        
       | mikehollinger wrote:
       | I'm actually kind of confused here; NVDLA has been around for a
       | while. What is new or interesting here that changes anything? I
       | did a cursory look to see if there's any new announcements, but -
       | even things like the roadmap on the site show a 2017 roadmap, and
       | the last commits to the hw and sw repos are 2019. Perhaps this
       | needs an edit to say it's from... 2017? Or is it 2019?
        
         | bostonpete wrote:
         | Should definitely say (2017). Looking at the Wayback Machine
         | from November 2017, I don't notice any differences from the
         | current page.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Added. Thanks!
        
         | rjsw wrote:
         | I only learned about NVDLA recently, from reading the specs of
         | the BeagleV board that another poster has linked to.
        
       | ojn wrote:
       | This is 2+ years old, and the Github has seen zero updates. Seems
       | like a dead-end effort to me.
        
       | blintz wrote:
       | The cynic in me is confused. Nvidia isn't exactly known for
       | making lots of things open source. What's their angle here? Is
       | the idea to take steam out of projects like TPU by making viable,
       | open-source alternatives?
        
         | tasty_freeze wrote:
         | > Nvidia isn't exactly known for making lots of things open
         | source.
         | 
         | It is true nvidia drivers are not open source, but this github
         | page says nvidia has 248 repositories:
         | https://github.com/NVIDIA
         | 
         | I'm not sure why the link was submitted today. The repo says it
         | is 3-4 years old.
        
           | kkielhofner wrote:
           | I understand why Nvidia gets a lot of heat from the Linux
           | community regarding the closed source nature of their GPU
           | drivers. That said, I use them on all of my Linux machines
           | and not being a FOSS purist I don't take issue with it.
           | Additionally, most of the complaints come from the Linux
           | desktop community. You rarely see the ML community at large
           | expressing any concern. For the most part they're just trying
           | to get work done and the overall CUDA ecosystem is
           | tremendously useful in that regard.
           | 
           | Very usable desktop experience, CUDA just works, the rest of
           | the software ecosystem makes anything else pale by comparison
           | (see the Pytorch ROCm discussion that made the HN front page
           | today). Every few months I take another look at ROCm and
           | frankly don't understand how anyone can take it seriously.
           | 
           | In the FOSS/Linux community the discussion around the closed
           | source nature of desktop drivers seriously discounts the
           | amount of FOSS work Nvidia has done.
        
             | pirocks wrote:
             | My perception is that Nvidia in particular gets a lot of
             | heat because they have bad/buggy drivers which integrate
             | poorly with existing package managers/distros, not just
             | closed source drivers. Anecdotally I have at least one
             | issue on my home desktop which is suspect is caused by
             | Nvidia drivers and poor display hotswap on a work device
             | which is definetly caused by Nvidia.
        
               | kkielhofner wrote:
               | That's fair but every time the issue is raised on HN, for
               | example, there are anecdotal reports all over the place.
               | Given the ridiculous number of variables I will believe
               | virtually anything to be true for that specific person,
               | configuration, use case, etc.
               | 
               | I understand the support for AMD's in kernel drivers (and
               | Mesa), rooting for the underdog, etc but anyone who is
               | being honest will acknowledge there are plenty of issues
               | with their drivers and various configurations as well.
               | 
               | Assuming it's six of one, half dozen of the other the
               | fact that Nvidia drivers also bring the entire CUDA
               | ecosystem to any GPU made in the last five years (or
               | more) really tips the scales (overall) for the
               | justification of an Nvidia hardware purchase (all other
               | things being equal).
        
         | fortran77 wrote:
         | NVIDIA has a lot of open source. https://github.com/NVIDIA
         | 
         | NVIDIA's business is to sell GPUs. This helps.
        
         | sliken wrote:
         | Seems pretty straight forward to me. Their maximum profit comes
         | from selling more GPUs, instead of trying to sell a piece of
         | software that has open source competition.
        
           | tpmx wrote:
           | It's not like their sales people are having a hard time
           | pushing the hardware at the moment. (In case someone hasn't
           | noticed: All GPUs have been sold out for months.)
        
             | sliken wrote:
             | Sure, but they have to think ahead. GPUs make sense for
             | ethereum, but not bitcoin (which moved from GPUs to FPGAs
             | to ASICs). Ethereum is moving from proof of work to proof
             | of stake. I expect the used market to flood with used
             | mining GPUs once that happens.
        
         | modeless wrote:
         | Commoditize your complement. Nvidia wants to sell neural net
         | _training_ chips. Neural net _inference_ chips are a
         | complement.
        
       | lights0123 wrote:
       | In the license:
       | 
       | > "Other NVDLA Rights" includes copyright, design right (whether
       | registered or unregistered), semiconductor topography (mask work)
       | rights, and database rights to the NVDLA Specification and any
       | Derivative Work. For the avoidance of doubt, Other NVDLA Rights
       | does not include patents or trademarks.
       | 
       | > Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, NVIDIA and
       | each Contributor hereby grant to You a perpetual, worldwide, non-
       | exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable license under the
       | Other NVDLA Rights to reproduce, prepare Derivative Works of,
       | publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
       | the NVDLA Specification and such Derivative Works, and to
       | commercially exploit any mask works included in the NVDLA
       | Specification or such Derivative Works
       | 
       | Why would they grant you permissions to "semiconductor
       | topography" rights?
        
         | zokier wrote:
         | Because of this I imagine?
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_Chip_Protection_...
        
       | shmerl wrote:
       | _> a free and open architecture that promotes a standard way to
       | design deep learning inference accelerators._
       | 
       | Is it really open and standard, i.e. not using anything like
       | CUDA?
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-05 23:02 UTC)